Rock Bottom

It’s official, the Red Sox have finally reached the lowest of the low in their 2006 season. This road trip against last place teams is a certified disaster as even a win behind Schilling on Thursday will make it a 2-4 trip.

That said, is the season over? OF COURSE NOT. You don’t find out about a team when times are good, you find out about a team when times are bad. This pothole is something that offers the Red Sox two choices — sink into it or lift their way out of it.

There are too many good players on this team — even with the injuries — for me to believe that these guys are just going to pack up and go South from here on out.

They need a galvanizing moment like the one Jason Varitek delivered to A-Rod at home plate on July 24, 2004. Something needs to happen. Obviously something more original than an Ortiz walkoff homer becasue that seems to happen twice a week.

There are still 50 games left in the season. That’s a lot of baseball. Assuming Schilling can right the ship, they have a bad Orioles team coming in to Fenway this weekend.

I am fascinated to see what the next week to two weeks hold. We’ve seen this team pull their way out of the depths before. Guys are pressing. That’s natural. Even Papelbon admitted last night he was trying to do too much.

I’m not saying that the Red Sox WILL make the playoffs. I’m simply saying not to get too low just because they are in a miserable slump. A baseball season is 162 games for a reason.


this is pathetic. a 1-4 road trip (2-4 if we win tomorrow) against the 2 worst teams in the AL. unless they can turn it around starting tomorrow, the season is probably over.

Bye redsoxs see you in 2007 ..

Ian, you’re right!! I’ve pointed out previously it takes being against a wall to prove what a team is made of. Look at 2004, gee, isn’t that the year The Sox came back and beat the **** out of the yankee’s??, and then went on to beat The Cards to win the Series?? Tough times and adversity are what build and show character, and heart. This team has plenty of BOTH!!! I’m not sure of the exact number but don’t we have like 50 games yet to play?? We just have to have some spark, some (I hate this expression sometimes) chemistry. We still have time to do this. Again I’m not sure of the exact number but weren’t we out by like 10 games around August 10, 2004. We really need to pick up. From what I read today, the players really do pick up on what we think and feel. I just say LET”S GO REDSOX!!! I’m sorry if I just sound too much like a Boston homer, but, I can’t help it. I CAN’T, I WON’T GIVE UP UNTIL WE ARE MATHEMATICALLY ELIMINATED!! GO OUR SOX!!!

ellen is right, we gained 8 games is 04. if we can win 6 of 9 against the yanks the rest of the season, we’ll be in good shape. plus were built for the stretch run (a fresh tek wake foulke and nixon).

The negativity needs to stop guys and gals! I mean come on, even if we don’t go all the way: THE SOX ARE STILL ONE OF THE BEST TEAMS OUT THERE! But its not over, till its over and with Wakefield soon to be back, and the fact that our guys’ attitudes stay positive, I think we still have a shot. Do I get frustrated with every loss? Of course, but come on, it wouldn’t be Redsox baseball if they weren’t giving us a heart attack every week! GO SOX!!!!

8 games in august/september*

Fresh Tek: The guy struggled all season.

Fresh Foulke: big deal if he can’t locate and throws fat pitches.

Fresh wake: um, he had a losing record before he got injured.

Fresh Nixon: yeah, he was doing great before he got injured. BA falling in the tank, etc, etc.

Maybe the Yankees can trade Babe Ruth back to the Sox. Thats more realistic than any of those four being a saviour.

The problem with the Redsox is our manager. He has not impressed me this season. He can’t make good moves when Sox in trouble. I say get rid of Terry and we start winning again. It is not to late Theo, get rid of him or give up the season. Terry has bad legs but also bad brain.

All this optimism and “if we do this” and “if we do that” is great and all. But realistically, if they can’t beat Tampa and KC, how do you expect them to beat the Yankees?
Bottom line is, the Sox haven’t hit in the clutch in over 2 weeks (2 walkoffs excluded, imagine if Fausto Carmona didn’t exist). When was the last time the Sox got a hit with the bases loaded? 2 double plays last night with them juiced. Papelbon shouldn’t have even had a save opportunity because the Sox should have been up by at LEAST 5 runs.

The starting pitching, Schilling exluded, can’t pitch past the 6th.

The bullpen has imploded and our replacement catcher isn’t good enough to catch on a terrible Baltimore team.

Francona has mismanaged the pitching staff all season long and has cost the Sox at least 10 games himself this year with his lack of moves.

Theo was too worried about winning 3 years from now that he did absolutely nothing to help the club win this year. He essentially gave up on the season by doing nothing, and he expects the Nation to be content with that?

Agreed: this is the lowest of the low. The team has lost it’s way. They stopped hitting, and teams seem to have figured out Hansen, Delcarmen and even Papelbon. It is interesting to see how the Red Sox have responded to injuries and surrendering first place: by going right down the pot. First place gets farther away, as the Yankees come up big against Chicago, but Boston can’t handle Kansas City and Tampa Bay? What happened to the heart of this team? Maybe it will get to the point that this five game series against New York won’t even matter.

First, Ian, all I have to say is, “wow.” I thought beat writers were at least supposed to feign objectivity. Second, of course you’re right in saying that the season isn’t over. Boston is down four in the loss column with 50-some games remaining, including 9 against the Bombers. But please, let’s get some facts straight. I was at the game on 7/24/2004, and that was not the turning point in the Sox’ season. Even after that win, Boston was down 7.5 games in the standings. By mid-August, the deficit had ballooned to 11.5 games, and the Yankees did, remember, go on to win the division. It’s charming to think that one epiphany can turn around Boston’s season, but it truly doesn’t work that way. Without greater consistency from everyone in the pitching staff not named Schilling, and from every hitter not named Ortiz and Ramirez, the Yankees will win this with relative ease.

Let me start by saying that i’m a Yankee fan, but I pay lots of attention to the Red Sox.
I was suprised that Epstein didn’t make any moves at the deadline, which I think really put you guys at a disadvatage…Abreu has been great for us already.

You pitching staff has been hurt and inconsistent, and its been getting worse not better. Wakefield wasn’t that good before he got hurt, and Wells is not what he once was (other than fat anyway).

That being said, the Division race is not nearly close to being over.

A 4 game losing streak certainly comes at the wrong time, but you guys still have the bats to be able to go 8-2 in your next 10 games. Which would put you right back in the division.

While its good to see some panic in Red Sox nation, you guys need to chill and little bit. Its a long season and theres lots of baseball left.

…but the Yankees will win the division. So starting worrying about the wildcard.

Some games have just broken wrong for us. Too many double plays, too many inopportune hits… we need to take advantage of EVERY chance, and not just hope that a 4-run lead holds. Our pitching is getting messier and messier by the day, and if it doesn’t get better, we ARE dead. However, I believe that they can improve… they’d BETTER improve lol

A disasterous week of epic proportions for any true Sox fan. Come Oct 1st, this gut wrenching week (1-4 trip) will be the difference.

Oh get over it, Albert. Terry’s not a bad manager – he just needs to start thinking with his head and stop thinking with his heart. But you know what? I’m ashamed to be sitting here conversing with all of you who consider yourselves Red Sox fans and are talking like we’re done. So we’ve hit a slump – gee, hasn’t every team this season? It’s unfortunate that our slump has come at a time where it’s not too good of a time, but it’s not lost yet and those of you who are constantly stating that the season is basically lost, then shame on you.

P.S. I’m just as ticked as the rest of you at the fact that the reminder that Jonathan IS in fact human, and our pitching could definitely be better, and the fact that Javy has done us more harm than good behind the plate(and I’m praying that Dougie will be catching tonight), but I’m not sitting here wallowing in my misery at the potential fact that the season is lost.

Hello butterfly. How are you?

Hey sweetie, can you tell?πŸ™‚

Pissed apparently. From the posts. But I dont want to talk to you abt baseball.

What are you doing?

Just a little bit.πŸ˜›

I’m not doing too much. Just at work, bouncing between here and “work” (my boss is out of the office at an appointment, so I’m taking it easy). What are you doing? Still in Dallas?

Yeah. Going back to MI tonight. It ***** that I cant carry any liquids not even water on flight today because of some jerk carrying an explosive liquid in England. You get really dehydrated in flight.

I did not ask you if I could email you before I sent you the email. Is it OK?

Of course it’s okay to email me!πŸ™‚ Silly.

Im agreeing with Jen here, this season is not over. Look at the Dodgers, they lost something like 10 straight games, but then they came back and won 11 straight. So one bad week doesn’t decide a season. Its easy to sit here and blame Tito and Theo. Yes, Tito has made some managerial blunders this season, and Theo didn’t make any deadline deals, but that does not make them inept and not worthy of anything. Tito has to use his bullpen. I mean, honestly, if nobody can pitch in tight situations anymore, what is he supposed to do? Its plain and simple..these pitchers aren’t executing pitches. A week ago everyone was saying “Put Seanez in, he’s doing great” He gets put in and gives up a HR. That is not Tito’s fault. And as for Theo not trading some of his prospects so that we can win another year…I’m for that. These prospects are what builds Dynasties. Delcarmen, Hansen, Lester, Papelbon, Pedroia, Pena, Stern, they are all young and will struggle, thats part of the game..but look at that talent and potential right there. I wouldn’t trade any of those guys for a Jon Lieber or some washed up reliever who is expendable. Get a grip Nation. We are 3 games out with 50 left. This season is definately not over.

I’m sorry you’ve got to deal with the airport ****. I hope it’s fixed by the time my husband and I go to Texas.

Thank you Muffin (what can I call you, honey, ’cause I’d prefer to call you by your name), for the backup. I’m sorry for sounding like a b*tch, but really. I hate when people feel we’re at the end of our “good streak” because we’ve stunk against last-place teams all year. They act like it’s a new thing. But thank you – I feel better knowing I’ve got someone in my corner.

Haha, well its just dumb that people jump ship as soon as this team struggles. It happens. How is it Tito and Theo’s fault? They’ ve both lead us to 90+win and 3 playoff appearances in the past 3 years…yeah, all of the sudden they ****? No, that makes no sense.

And You can call me Phil, thanks for asking

The statement is not, “it happens;” it’s “it always happens.” We get ourselves into a frenzy every single year because they cause us stress and heart attacks every year at this same time. And I don’t know how it could be Terry and Theo’s faults because they’ve done pretty **** good in my opinion.

Yeah Jen. I hate the security check at the airports. I have to get to the airport atleast a good 90 mins before departure which means an hour of lost sleep pn monday mornings for me.

Could be worse folks, at least we’re talking about a FOILED terrorist plot…

Aww Vik, I’m sorry.😦 Do you travel every week?

Maybe sox fans should be a little nervous. With the Yankees playing as they are, they’re only going to get better once Sheffield and Matsui come back. With the race for the post season getting a little more heated, every team needs to step up their game now, and losing to the worst teams in baseball is not the kind of results that get you a wildcard spot, much less a division title. The biggest difference between this year and previous years is that if the sox don’t make a run for the division, there’s a good chance the wildcard will come from the central, and then…well, i guess saying that “there’s always next year” isn’t such great consolation

To support Jen’s argument (atleast the Theo part), weren’t you the guys that were trumpeting that the redsox rotation is very good and is set for a long time to come and the bullpen was lights out?? If that is the case what is it that would make Theo to give away prospects for an old 2 month rental, given the injuries to Nixon and Varitek occured after the trade deadline.

Hey guys, I’ll be back in a few minutes. My tummy is hungry and it’s lunchtime. I’ll be back soon.πŸ™‚

Usually yes. The last month or so I have been traveling every other week. But I work only Mon-Thu. So not a bad deal at all. Given, they pay for my travel and put me in very good hotels and dine me in great restaurants. They even pay my cell phone and internet bills.

Theo should’ve coughed up a few prospects for at least a veteran that can help the rotation for more than just this season. There is no gaurantee that these kids will make a dynasty. These kids might win a title in four or five years, but they had a chance now, & they’ve gone & blown it. You have to realize that prospects aren’t professionals. They are minor leaguers & not major leaguers. & let’s be real, you can’t expect all of your top prospects to develope into all-stars, it just doesn’t work that way. & who’s to say that they won’t leave or be traded. Theo decided that a proven loser & a wounded old fart could help this team, & boy was he wrong or he just didn’t care. Trade the prospects while their hot. There is never a gaurantee so it will always be a gamble, but atleast bet with the odds in your favor. 2004 Red Sox, name the rookies on that team.

I have to take issue with some of the ardent Theo defenders here. As jsel has so eloquently said, Red Sox fans can’t count on all their rookies to develop into stars. Many experts (even ESPN folks who normally laud everything Boston does) think it unlikely that Lester, Hansen and Delcarmen becomes all-stars. Many here are saying that young kids struggle almost congentially, but look around the majors. Weaver, Saunders, Liriano, Verlander, Josh Johnson, Olsen, Maine, etc. are rookies and producing on a large scale. Cano was a rookie last year and didn’t require any initiation period, nor has Papelbon this year (at least to this point). So perhaps these Boston pitchers were just a *bit* overhyped. Further, who said anything about Theo having to give up the farm to improve this season’s club? Cashman walked away from the trade deadline with Bobby Abreu, Corey Lidle, and Craig Wilson having given up absolutely nothing of imminent value, and most likely of future value.

I’m back.

Wow, only Mon-Thurs. Must be nice.πŸ™‚ And to have it all paid for, including internet and cell phone? That sounds like a pretty decent job.πŸ™‚

Well, I’m very glad to see folks like ellen, ralphie, irish, Jen and muffinman pick up the “Don’t Panic” mantra. Most of the nay-sayer Sox fans sound like the folks I used to work with in Albany. I got so sick of hearing “Typical Red Sox, play great in May, crappy in September.” What kind of fan support is that, for cripes sake?

Here are a couple things to be optimistic about:

– Over the final 50 games yet to be played by the Sox, 29 are at Fenway, 21 are on the road.

– The Sox are 35-17 at home and 30-30 on the road.

I’m sure the Yankee fans will exercise their right to come back and tell me why these things don’t hold any hope for Sox fans, that stat X shows that the Sox WILL lose down the stretch and the Yankees WILL win the division, blah blah blah blah. Stats can only tell you what HAS happened, and maybe give you an idea of what MIGHT happen. They are no guarantee of what WILL happen. This slump is more of an anomaly when compared to the Sox’ performance thus far this year. I for one think they will rebound and have a strong August and September.

And just to delve into a few stats of my own to respond to suxfan (gee, what a creative name), Wakefield may have had a losing record before going on the DL, but his ERA is 4.14, third best of any pitcher that has started for the Sox this year. His losing record is more a reflection of run support than his pitching (as if you need me to tell you that, since anybody who has talked about Wakefield this year has pointed it out).

And, for those of you who said it was good that Trot Nixon went on the DL because Pena is better at the plate, take a look at what Wily Mo has done at the plate. I mean an OBJECTIVE look, not just talking about long balls. He’s hit .188 so far in the first nine days of August, with an OBP of .235. Not exactly an improvement at the plate over Trot, is it? And I don’t think anyone can seriously tell me that Pena is better in right field than Nixon. (OK, OK, I’m an unabashed Nixon fan, and it’s only been a week and half since Wily Mo got the starting spot and he could turn it around, which I hope he does because that would help the Sox and who cares if it’s Pena, Nixon, Stern or Francona out there as long as they win.)

Sorry for the long post. I don’t have the time to watch the blog all day, so I have to get my comments in all at once.

Just because a lot of us are ticked off doesn’t mean we are any less of a Sox fan than the most die hard eternal optimist. I’m still glued to my TV each night watching each game hoping this is the one that will turn it around.
Yes, slumps do happen. However, there is a difference between a 10 game slide (Dodgers) and a month and a half of mediocrity. The Sox are 4 games over .500 vs the American League this year and guess what, that’s all we play the rest of the way.

If we were all cheerleaders here saying everything is going to be OK that wouldn’t make for much conversation.

I don’t think I’m alone in the opinion that the Sox haven’t hit in the clutch the past month (Papi and Loretta’s walk off included). 2 bases loaded double plays last night. We haven’t taken control of a game wire to wire.

Everyone has been saying from day one that these kids would eventually wear down by the end of the year, so why didn’t we get any help? Just because we are all Sox fans doesn’t mean we have to agree with every decision that is made.

I personally think Francona has been way below average this year. How many times would you let someone hit you over the head with a brick before you told him to stop? That’s essentially what Francona is doing every time he puts Tavarez or Seanez in a game. Extra innings against agains Tampa this weekend. Where was Snyder? The guy hasn’t pitched since the Cleveland series. Putting Tavarez out there was Tito essentially saying he gave up on the game.

People were saying to put Seanez in because he had a string of decent outings. Those outings were games that the Sox were up or down at least 4 and there wasn’t much pressure.

His last 4 games that he’s appreared in that counted.

NY-Walks Giambi w/bases loaded.

Atlanta-Gives up bomb to Francour.

Chicago-loses game (granted there wasn’t anyone left to use, so there wasn’t anything to do there)

KC-Cut lead to 1, he gives up a bomb.

The Yankees traded 4 prospects, only one of which had tasted the Big Club for a decent 4th starter and a starting outfielder. You mean the Sox don’t have enough in the farm system to get a decent middle reliever??

It’s hard to remain positive when it doesn’t look like anything is being done to rectify the situation.

That being said, here’s hoping for a run, but who’s going to provide the spark?

Rob, thank you for your input.πŸ™‚ I, for one, truly appreciate it.

One last thing, in response to the continued carping about Theo not making a big trade. Please tell me what veteran pitcher that could help the Sox for two or more years was actually available? I’m not saying there wasn’t anybody out there, but so far I’ve heard people say “Theo should have made a trade,” which is easy to say, but nobody has shown me that there was actually a solid arm out there that could be acquired for a decent deal.

And if anyone thinks Theo “doesn’t care” they’re fooling themselves. Not because I think he’s true blue (or should that be true red?) Sox material; if he doesn’t continue to produce winning teams, he’s out of a job. Simple as that.

You guys could have gotten Cory Lidle. Or Jon Lieber. Or Livan Hernandez. Starting pitching was your most glaring need, but your offense was picking you guys up. It’s terribly ironic that the day of and the day after the deadline, two of your hitters go down with injuries. Instead, Theo decided to “plan for the future” while using prospects who have demonstrated time and time again that they aren’t ready for the Majors. It’s idealistic, but it’s impractical, and is definitely going to bite the team in the rear if they miss the playoffs.

Why was David Riske ever traded for a guy who ended up in AAA? All that did was weaken your bullpen even further.

So quick to say “yankee fans will come up with stats to prove you wrong but stats are stats blah blah blah” and then you say the sox slump is a fluke and they will recover? See, to me, at least stats is a reason to think one day and you certainly supplied them with the home/away comparison, so why is it bull **** to hear that the sox are +4 against the AL (you eliminate the orioles and they are -2) for the ENTIRE SEASON, but it is completely acceptable to fully believe they will turn it around and come strong in august and september? I don’t get it, redsox fans are allowed to come up with stats to support their point (18 over 500 at home but how much was against the nl?) but yankee fans cannot use stats to reject it because their stats are somehow just tailored for the past, whereas your stats prove to be built for the future?

That’s the point I’ve made before Rob. I, for one, can’t say who was available. That is the job of the GM. Someone in NY had to come up with 4 minor leaguers to do the deal. Again, I’m not talking about mortgaging the future for a #5 guy or an average middle man, but it seems other trades were made by teams accepting AA and Single A prospects.
No one is calling for Theo’s head either, nor Francona’s. I don’t think any other manager could handle this team or the Boston media. I think Francona is fantastic at that. But you’d have to be asleep not to realize he hasn’t managed the staff to the best of it’s abilities.

As far as Theo goes, the guy has done some real good things here. I’m not calling for his head, and I don’t think anyone else is. But we still haven’t heard a good reason as to why no moves were made other than we didn’t want to spare some prospects. A point brought up earlier was great. These are just prospects. It’s a roll of the dice. Who’s to say this prospect won’t blow their arm out, who’s to say a .200 hitter might not be a stud? It’s a gamble, but sending a prospect, then winning, makes other free agents come by. It’s almost as if he doesn’t want to make deals because he wants to rely only on what we are developing.

In all fairness on the Riske trade. Riske ******. He was another Seanez. A game that mattered was an explosion waiting to happen. Lopez had ups and downs and was the victim of DL shuffles and such. He still had his moment with a big K of Thome in the Chicago game with the based juiced.

Let’s not talk about David Riske. I’m still miffed about that trade.

hey jen!

Hey Vince, what’s happenin’ babydoll?

sitting around, waiting for everything to fall into place lol, what are you doing, how’s work going?

Waiting for everything to fall into place?

I’m not doing too much. Trying to get something done around here, to make it look like I’ve been working hard while my boss was gone.πŸ™‚ Work is work. Same old ****, different pile. I worked on a cover letter for my resume – I’m going to send it in to some of the local schools that have some administrative job openings (most of which pay $12,000 more than what I’m making now), so I can get an “in” for when I finish my Master’s Degree (which I hope to start in the fall or early spring) in early education.

ohh sounds like a very well thought out plan.

yeah, i’m waiting to send some information so I can get the loans i need for this year of school, and I’m going to miami tomorrow to look at miami vice shooting locations, and I am trying to get eligible for work study so i can work on campus during the school year, you know waiting for things to fall into place


I hated loans – I tried to get as many scholarships as I possibly could.πŸ™‚

When will you know about your work study?

hopefully in the next 24 hrs, depends when they return the message

Hey robn!! great to see you’re back. I am and will be the forever optimistic RedSox fan, right down to my rose colored glasses. I DO think it will turn around, but gsr has a good point about differing points of view; it would become mundane if we all looked at it all the same (and I’m the self appointed cheerleader here!!! lol). Jen sounds alot like me when it comes to the Sox.
When it comes to the issue of get rid of/don’t get rid of Tito, I say DON’T. I know the argument of him taking the team to their 1st series in 86 years has been beaten to death and I don’t agree with that as a reason not to get rid of him… BUT I think he (and the team)will come out this. He is a knowledgeable, hard working manager.I predict that it will start tonight. Oh and the reason for the slump?? The dhl delivery guy lost my address and didn’t bring me my shipment of the little dolls with the pins!!! OOH!! look he just pulled in the driveway!!

Yeah Jen. Cool job. I did not go to school all those years for nothing.

Vince (it is Vince, right?):

I’m certainly not saying you can’t bring up stats. All I’m saying is I’m not going to let the numbers dishearten me to the point of giving up on the last third of the season. Yes, I prefer my glasses to have a certain rosy tint to them, meaning that I’d rather concentrate on things that can give us hope instead of reason to get down. You do a darn fine job of giving us the downside of the Sox’ numbers, thank you very much. (Hey, that’s part of your job as a Yankee fan, isn’t it? By the way, I never said it was hooey to bring up the fact that the Sox are only +4 against the AL.) You’ll also note that I specifically made it a point to say that stats can tell you what might happen; they don’t just tell the story of the past. They give you trends and tendencies, but they guarantee nothing.

And Kevin (Keith? Sorry, I know it begins with a K.), I didn’t mean to imply that anyone who is a bit depressed at this point is any less of a fan than me or any other Sox fan. But as far as the trade discussion, I guess it’s a question of which gamble you’re more comfortable with: an aging major leaguer or an untested farm hand. Either one could let you down just as easily as the other.

And unless you mean “calling for his head” literally, there are people on this blog who today and yesterday suggested that Terry Francona be let go, and also people who have suggested that the season is all but done for the Sox. Just plain silly on both counts. Can you name a single team that won a World Series after changing managers mid-season in the modern era? (There is one. I’m wondering if anyone remembers who it was.) Historically, a managerial change, especially this late in the year, does not improve a team’s performance. (OK, there’s another stat reference.)

Theo should’ve got Smoltz when they visited Atl. I saw the interview, & he really wanted to go to a contender. The Braves would gladly take garbage prospects. I bet that even Marlins would’ve coughed up Willis for garbage prospects. There wasn’t a need to lose Lester (who is over-rated) or pap. Smoltz is a durable veteran that would stay for a while, willis is a young veteran that would stay for awhile. Either way, I’m not less of a sox fan because i happen to disagree with Theo & Tito, or becuase I think that the twins will win the wild card. Something should’ve been done to better the club. Banking on over-rated kids was a bad move. Guarantee most of them will be traded or leave because the Brass won’t pay them what they deserve.

vince, Better be careful in Miami, rough crowd down there. I read in the paper that a visitor took a wrong turn in Coral Gables by U.M. and was roobed and killed. Keep your head about you.

vince, man, be careful in Miami, rough crowd down there. I read in the paper that a visitor took a wrong turn in Coral Gables by U.M. and was robbed and killed. Keep your head about you.

sorry for the double post guys!!

thanks ellen…i’ll be with my dad i don’t think there will be a problem and we’re going to south beach….lots of public there.

robyn point taken, just making sure, and yes, it is my duty and i never do a job that is halfassed haha. My only point is every year sox fans say throw away the stats they don’t matter and every year they collapse around the same time and come in 2nd place, that has to be saying SOMETHING

I think making the argument that if the kids aren’t good their rookie season like papelbon, liriano, johnson, verlander..etc.then they are going to **** and are overhyped. Thats stupid. John Smoltz..(who many of you think we should get) had an awful rookie season…
2 Wins

7 Losses

5.48 ERA

The First FOUR years of Curt Schilling’s Career:

4 wins

11 losses

5.47 ERA

Johan Santana’s rookie Season:

2 Wins

3 losses

6.49 ERA

The first THREE years of Roy Halladay’s Career:

13 Wins

14 Losses

5.49 ERA

(Includes 2000 Season where he was 4-7 with a 10.64 ERA through 68 Innings)

Cmon now…I can give you more..A poor rookie season doesn’t mean they wont develop into something great.

lol good you can enjoy them in 2009…if you still have them. All those teams you listed rely on rookie sensations and have no choice but to hold onto them until they develop or else they are in a lifetime of mediocrity, you really think after 2008 if hansen and delcarmen have era’s in the 5’s they will still stay in boston? I doubt it, not even epstein has those patience for a big market club

Why didn’t the Redsox get Bobby Abreau and Cory Lidle before the Yankees got them??????Redsox have minor league prospects too.
Theo fault for not looking into this.

As for Terry he sure can chew a big ward during games,can’t argue with empires, he might choak,he sure can spit a lot during a game. The ground must be wet…..Ha…Ha

Well then Roger Clemens…Rookie Season:
9 Wins

4 Losses

4.32 ERA

Not exactly lights out…Lester is putting up those numbers…

I hear ya, Rob. It’s Kevin, so you were close enough.

Whoa, Vince, you’re heading to Miami? I must have missed that post. I went there for the 1st time when I was either 19 or 20.

Whatever you do, don’t get real drunk with your buddies, run out of money and think you can walk back to your hotel. And then don’t walk down the wrong road in wrong side of town. Then don’t get mugged, only to tell your mugger that you don’t have any money left only to be lucky enough to have a cop car drive by at the very instant you are taking on on the chin.

Yeah, don’t do that. Trust me, it’s never good when that happens.

Albert, the reason the Sox didn’t do that deal is because Abreu is owed about $15 mil next year. Not sure about Lidle’s contract. Trot is more than likely gone after the year, and Wily Mo is being groomed to fill the void in right. It would have been nice to avoid the yanks to make the deal, but it would have been costly.

Ok, time for sushi…be back later

i found this comment the most interesting:

Posted: 1:25 PM, August 10, 2006 by Anonymous

“I constantly get in Arguments with my friends over this. Beckett, is, in fact, overrated. Never pitched more than 175 ip in a year, pitched possibly the worst game every by a starter, against the Yankees earlier this year. I am so sick and tired of hearing about how he shut down the Yanks in Game 6 of the World Series. One series/game does not make you an ACE. Do you remember Jaret Wright in the 1997 World Series against the Marlins? Enough said. And Yes, I am a die har Red Sox fan.”

gsr, true story?? If so yo are really one lucky son of a gun!! It’s getting like that here in certain parts of Lauderdale.
Jen, I admire your motivation, finishing your masters in early education, this country needs more educators at that level, Hey don’t forget to teach them about the Sox!!

haha wow kevin i missed that post….um…I will um…try not do to that. jeez.

ha funny my first time there was a week before my 19th birthday

πŸ˜› My children will be brought up as Red Sox fans.πŸ™‚ And thank you. Hehe, I’m a school nerd, I think. Ever since college, I’ve loved taking classes. Maybe it’s just different than high school – or maybe I just like learning, I don’t know.πŸ™‚

Wasn’t one of my finer moments. Unfortunately, a true story that I never told my mom about.
On my wedding day, the mother of my best man, whom I was with in Miami, made a joke comment regarding how much we’ve grown up, “and just think, 6 years ago you 2 were young and stupid getting beat up in Miami”

My mom almost had a heart attack.(not really, but she was pretty shocked)

Basically Vince, only get off the exits that have a sun on them.

That indicates that it is a safe part of town. If it’s true or not, I don’t know for a fact because I’ve only been there a handful of times. But everyone I know that goes down there a lot tells me it’s true, so take it for what it’s worth.

thanks kevin i’ll keep that in mind, I prob won’t go there without family members until the winter or the spring, but it is good to know for the future

What do you guys think of the pitching lineup tonight. This guy Hernandez I think his name is has an 8+ era, and he’s 2-7. The Sox really need to open up the game early and give Schilling the bat support he needs, hopefully, tonight will be the end of the skid..

If sox don’t win today I will have to drive to Logan tonight, get past all the security and give a big lecture to the team.

They will win today, they don’t want a lecture from me at 4 AM at the LOgan Airport.

I hope so Ellen. I think the last few times the Sox played pitchers with extremely high ERA’s they wound up looking like all starts.
They need a good old fashion *** kicking. I’m talking 5 runs in the 1st and don’t let up. Just pound the Royals as punishment for beating us 2 in a row. I want to be able to NOT worry when the 6th or 7th comes around.

Good new about this weekend. Baltimore’s best pitcher, Bedard, pitched yesterday, so we won’t get him. He’s been real good since the break and he’s a lefty, so that could have meant touble.

Muffin – Were all those rookie pitchers you listed on teams that were in playoff contention at the time?


Not to belabor the point, but when you say “I, for one, can’t say who was available. That is the job of the GM” it kind of proves what I’m saying. If you don’t know who was available and what it would have taken to get them, how can you say Theo made a bad decision to stand pat? It’s kind of like if I told you that it was stupid for you to buy a new car when I had no idea what you have in the bank or what your credit is like. If you don’t know the particulars, how can you pass judgment on the decision?

I certainly understand the desire to see SOMETHING done to improve the Sox’ chances to make the post season this year. Basically, Theo took a gamble that Wells, Wakefield and Foulke would come back healthy and competent in time for the stretch run, and that the bullpen would at least not continue to decline. (Maybe because he thought Dave Wallace could work some magic? If that was his reasoning, I’m sure he wouldn’t put pressure on Wallace by saying it in public.) We’ve got the easiest job in the world as fans, sitting here and deciding whether those gambles were sound or not.

And let’s not forget that Mr. Epstein doesn’t have complete carte blanche to make any move he wants. I’m sure the decision was made in consultation with the owners. Ultimately, I think they have to take at least part of the blame (or credit) for whatever the season’s outcome is.

OK. I tried to stay away from the Sox for a few days, but – just like after Game 3 of the 2004 ALCS when I said that I would not watch Game 4, sure enough I watched last night’s game after returning from seeing “You, Me and Dupree” at the theater.

I consider myself one of the most even-tempered Red Sox fans and baseball fans. I don’t put much credence into a losing streak or a winning streak since baseball is such a cyclical game over a very long season.

That said, I think it is crucial that the Sox win tonight. To end a slide, gain some momentum, increase morale and start a winning streak, you gotta win the first one. Last night’s game was frustrating because Beckett pitched a decent game, but the offense did not come through when they had multiple chances to blow the game wide open. I’m still not concerned about Papelbon. I think he’ll recover, just as I am confident that Timlin will recover.

It’s obvious that if the sox continue the way they’ve been playing since the All-Star break, they will not reach the post-season. However, this team is too good to keep playing this way. I also don’t put much credence in waht record the Sox have against individual teams. Numbers don’t matter when I team gains momentum and gains confidence. Right now, the Sox don’t have confidence or momentum. That can change in an instant.

The bottom line is, the Sox have been up and down all year, and they have struggled since the All-Star break. Yet they are still in thick of the AL East race, and the wild card race. There are nine games left with the Yankees. We definitely need to get some momentum before we enter the five-game series coming up.

The media is acting like the Sox are done, but we as fans shouldn’t pay attention to that. I’ve been a full-time member of the media, and now I’m a freelance member of the media. Especially in Boston, the media tends to live in the day and not recognize the big picture. The Yankees hot streak will come to an end, and it’s important that the Sxo capitalize when they do. They can’t worry about what the Twins, Yankees and White Sox are doing. They just have to focus on winning their own games. That is a cliche, but it’s true.

So, in conclusion, I am aggravated just like any other die-hard Sox fan. However, I tend to see the big picture. The Sox have the players to reach the post-season. It’s just a matter on winning that first one and then building momentum from there. We’ll see what happens.

so basicalyl robn admits cashman is the better gm this year.

lol nothing guarantees the yankees will stop being hot, they are ahot 2nd half team esp this year when they are only gaining health back and not getting hurt…hopefully.

Media will jump on any high priced team struggling they were all over the yankees all year until now (all the predictions that the yankees won’t make the playoffs blah blah blah) they are the biggest form of bandwagon in the country haha

By the way, from catching up on the posts, I agree that the Sox should not have pursued people like Abreu and Lidle. Epstein is an exceptional GM, and he has put the Sox in the position to win year in and year out, which cannot be said about Gorman and Duquette. The Sox still have a chance to reach the post-season this year, and next year they will have payroll flexibility by putting Pena in right, putting Pedroia at second or short and not retaining Wells. Even though I like Crisp – and I think he will fully rebound next season since his thumb should be fully healed, I wouldn’t be surprised if Epstein dealt him in a package to get a front-line estblished player – such as an Andruw Jones, who fits Epstein’s criteria of signing or trading for top players who are not aging. John Henry does not open his wallet as wide as Steinbrenner, but he is willing to spend to put a winning product on the field. I think next season many Sox fans will be glad that Epstein kept guys like Lester. And I think that people will quit their whining about Beckett next season as well. Sometimes you have to be patient and let players develop. Remember, along with NY, Boston is the toughest place to play.

give Paps a break or send him to yanks if your done with him Terry too we’ll make him bench coach or somethin but seriously plenty of time left rivalry is going to be right were it should be come late sept. there’s my bucket full let’s not let the ship sink just yet

“so basicalyl robn admits cashman is the better gm this year.”

Now wait just a minute there, bucko. πŸ˜‰ Where the devil did you get THAT from? I said I understand the desire to see something done; I never said Theo isn’t doing a good job. As a matter of fact, if you look at every post I’ve ever written on this blog, I’ve never even come close to saying such a thing. All I said is he took a gamble. He’s got 50 more games to show us that he made the right gamble.

And you’re right, the media are as capricious as all get out. I also think they’re specifically instructed to make big predictions, because who the heck wants to watch ESPN and hear Steve Phillips, Tim Kurkjian, John Kruk and Tino Martinez sit there and say “Gosh, how the heck do we know what’s going to happen? Every division is still completely up for grabs.”

Just caught up on some more posts. Get rid of Francona? That is assinine. The guy has been an integral part of the Sox reaching the post-season the last two years, and they are still in contention right now. The only more assinine comment you can make is getting rid of Epstein.

haha i’m just joking with you robn, i like when john kruk makes predictions such as saying johnson will strike out jim thome (he did it in the 4th, not the 1st inning) because usually they are extremely random and outlandish but yeah espn uses stats to the ultimate evil, they spin them to sell whatever team they are trying to sell at the time, basically a huge gossip columnist.

Just ask Kruker how he feels about facing Johnson.

When the Phillies lost to the Jays in the World Series in 1993, I spent a week at their spring training camp doing some articles for the Phillies magazine. John Kruk was one of the most comical athletes I’ve ever interviewed. That same spring training, I remember Mitch Williams standing behind a corner of the outfield bleachers and shooting a paint ball gun at a TV reporter’s behind. It would have been interesting to have covered the Phillies for the entire season. I think Kruk is a good studio personality. Much more entertaining than Tino Martinez. Much more tolerable than Steve Phillips.

lol i wonder if behind the espn desk his entire HEAD would spin around talking about it.

yeah kruk looks like he’d be a fun guy to be around, like david wells except sober more often and not a self righteous *** hole

Yeah, I figured you were just joshing.

Wow, I’ve put up more posts today than I have in about a month. I really should do some work. But before I go, I wanted to mention to ellen and kevin that I agree we don’t need to always agree on stuff; never meant to imply such a thing, sorry if it came across that way.

Just read Ian’s latest blog entry (the one we are posting to right now). I think he perfectly described the present situation.

We are toast, toast, toast, bring the butter and the jam. Toast.

Ah, get over yourself, exsub. No we’re not.

Alright everyone, I’ll talk with you later. I’m going home, on time, for once.πŸ™‚

Agreed, Carolina (is that your name, or your state!) Anyway, exsub’s comments are shortsighted. True, we’re not playing well, and we won’t make it to the post-season like this, but there is time to right the ship.

Swolansky…when did the pitchers I mentioned being in playoff contention have anything to do with my original argument of a bad rookie season doesn’t translate to a mediocre career. My argument had nothing to do with rookie pitchers in a pennant I really have no clue what point you are trying to make

pimplebutt blows it against KC haha ahh the injuries and the inconsistant pitching and the Yankees on the late season tear and they may be up 5 games by the time they get to boston

haha wow the yankee fans are in full force today, i guess 4 in the loss column is a magic number of some sort

I think someone should torpedo exsub!! (speaking of miltary men, where is squid??), hope all is well with him. exsub baby, if you think the Sox are toast, where will you stand when they are the Toast of the Town?? 50 games plus to go and you’re writing them off?? If that’s so think (I mean actulally try to think) again… brain fart I guess, on you’re part. OOPS did I write that out loud??

If I have to read another post about how the red sox are done for, i think im gonna hurl. For all of those who have given up hope, I ask them to take a look at another team in the majors. Los Angeles Dodgers, and tell me how their losing streak affected their season.

I agree, Ashley. There are many people on here who might call themselves fans, but they don’t understand the game of baseball. As I’ve stated several times, it is a very long season. True, the Sox are struggling right now, and it is frustrating to watch them. But they have too many true professionals on this team not to turn it around and stay in the race. I expect for them to have some momentum going into the Yankees series. That is all this team needs. I think a lot of these idiots making these posts – Yankees fans and so-called Sox fans alike -will be eating crow next month at this time.

Good call louder. I find it funny looking back at old posts (i.e. when the sox where on the 12 game win streak) and seeing all of the best team in baseball, world series posts. Now after a 4 game losing streak everyone is saying the season is over. And let’s be realistic here. Had a great chance to win 2 out of those four. They arent getting romped every night, and like i said before, when you have a lineup like the sox have a 8-12 game win streak is never out of consideration. Go sox

Another long winning streak would be nice, but all they need to do is win each series – take 2 of 3, 3 of 5, etc. If you do that, then you take care of the standings on your own. The Yankees will cool off. So will the Twins. Every team in baseball has hot streaks and cold streaks.

Agree whole heartedly. Lets get things back on the right foot tonight. And who better to stop the skid than the dependable veteran.

once again, why? Why would the yankees cool off, lineups don’t put together winning streaks, pitching does, when you guys get it then you can put it together, when we lose it then we won’t continue to be hot but i don’t see that happening, you guys will not win the divison and that is my honest belief, but we will see.

The Yankees will cool off. I already said why. Baseball is a game of streaks. The Yankees are pitching well right now, but they don’t exactly have a rotation that is intimidating. Mussina and Wang are throwing the ball well, but even they can have lapses. The Red Sox are not pitching well, but they have the arms to turn it around. You are sorely misguided if you think the Yankees will not run into another losing streak. The division and the wild card is up for grabs. We’ll see a month from now.

i think they will eventually, particularly against the angels, but you act like once the sox kick it in gear it is for good, if the yankees get bad and the sox get good the reverse will happen again so it won’t matter

Good to see Mirabelli is backπŸ™‚

I like Coco Crisp. I think he’ll be a solid center fielder and hitter for the long term if the Sox decide to keep him in the off-season. However, I would rather see Youkilis leading off and Crisp hitting down in the order – like seventh.

Hello everyone. How are we doing tonight?

I just wanted to say that I’m really glad that Dougie is back. When I saw him suit up, I was….*sigh* oh so excited.πŸ™‚

One run through 6 innings against a pitcher that started the game with an ERA over 8???? Someone please tell me again where the silver lining is in all this.

the game’s not over yet buddy.


Okay, okay, I take that back…πŸ˜› I’m embarrassed now.

I don’t believe it. He didn’t ground into a double play. Unbelievable!

I guess I should have said something earlier. I make one comment and Wily Mo must have heard me.
On another note, I don’t think Wily Mo will see another fastball the rest of the season. He took advantage of a mistake there and drilled it. 0-2 pitch and he absolutely crushed it. That kid has He-Man strength.

Another big hit for Wily Mo. I think that a season with Ortiz and Manny, and instruction from Ron Jackson (who has proven to be one of the better hitting coaches in baseball), he will cut down on his strikeouts. I like Wily Mo in right field next season – that is, if Epstein doesn’t deal him away.

8 pitche inning. Huge!!

well it’s back to 2 games after tonight, the clowns are out in chi town

lol giambi just told me to shutup

cano is absolutely unbelievable, he is in postseason mode immediately after missing a month

well, how’s that wily mo for bronson deal looking. i don’t miss those 78mph hanging curve balls and hanging change-ups. bronson probably won’t get 12 wins this year! plus wily mo is your cleanup batter after manny leaves.

4-3 sox…schilling has runner on 2nd, he is still in there

boy you are some expert xprt, considering pena is hitting 200, and is a duel ace of the reds who are in a better playoff position than the redsox right now

Where in the F is Terry? I don’t want Dave out there – I need Tito to show his face. *sigh* AHHHHH, of course Curt’s gonna say he’s okay! THEY ALL DO!


not to mention, good all u do is walk ortiz and throw a cuveball to pena and ur out of the inning.


is tito gonna sub in a reliever anytime this year, or what?

Thanks Terry, two runs too late.

That’s what I was thinking Justin.


This feels like 2003 ALCS Game 3…

For the past 6 games…

i usually support tito but that was terrible managing….WE NEED A WIN

Is anyone here really suprised that Francona waiting too long? Seriously, the guy has done this all year.

don’t u think he was trying to salvage ur bullpen and schilling couldn’t do it?

11 hits by the Royals and that was their first single.

It should have been obvious by Tito that when Schill went from 89 to 102 pitches that quick he should’ve pulled him.

schill had been giving up doubles all day (9 to be exact). was it any surprise that giving him an 8th inning was gonna spell trouble. thats just dumb managing. anyone could see that 9 doubles combined with 7 innings of work for a 40 year old is just about enough. We have 12 on the pitching staff…why not use them!

No question he should have been out there to start the inning, but once he got in trouble, FranCOMA should have been out there. I took some shots this year questioning his managing of the pitching staff, but this is another prime example.
But hey, don’t worry, if anyone gets on, we have Dougie hitting 4th in the 9th.

Francona waits to long to pull pitchers. Games get tied, then he brings in Tavarez. $10 says if the Sox tie it up, he puts in Tavarez.

The only way this game gets won is by Big Papi magic; and that’ll probably help turn around this skid.

Cause he’s that awesome.

If we get swept by the Royals, well hey there’s preseason football and soon, college football/basketball

Think we can score off a closer with a 5+ERA? We couldn’t do anything off a starter with an 8+ERA.

Good point…


Hasn’t ANYBODY media decided to rip Tito about some of his managing decisions?

So we get screwed in both the Wild Card and AL East…


I think I’m gonna go cry now =P

haha wow nvm about the 2 games, nice turnaround series jeff.

Tough loss. Not too often these days in MLB when you are glad to get out of Kansas City.

Hmmm, wonder who that anybody is. I’d love for someone to give Terry a piece of their mind about that stupid ****. We don’t have magical powers that make a pitcher all of a sudden “turn it around” after he’s put numerous batters on base that scored 3 runs. DAMMIT, I’m pissed. I can’t think straight right now, so I’m going to bed. That’s all I can think to do right now.

miss u jen!

Well, the Sox sure are making it tough to keep a positive attitude.

The silver lining Kevin? All I can come up with is that I’ll be in bed at a reasonable hour. Sorry, but I’m just not up to participating in the sob fest tonight.

Shoulda coulda woulda. Too late now. Maybe they can beat up on Baltimore.

no you don’t, you didn’t even say hi to me.😦

Boy, it’s a good thing we carry 13 pitchers on the roster. Since we only use about 3 guys from the pen. It wouldn’t make ANY sense to have a power hitter on the bench.
If anyone comes on here and says one more time “Don’t worry, it’s a little slump” I”m going to go nuts.

The Sox are the laughing stock of major league baseball right now.

They just got swept by the Kansas City Freaking Royals!!!

This team has NO HEART and the bats have gone dead. Schilling is the only pitcher that can pitch past the 6th, and we saw how good that did us tonight. Francona couldn’t manage his way out of a paper bag.

I really miss the team of the past 2 years where everyone had fun and played tough. I’m embarrased right now.

Best point of the night has been made by ROB. I get to got to bed before 11:30 tonight.

that game was 100% there for the taking. and francona (through bad decision making) just threw it away. we only needed to get 2 innings out of the relievers for a win. one to timlin, one to papelbon; simple maths. it’s ridiculous to think that a man who had conceded 6 doubles up to the 8th was going to complete an 8th inning. It’s called fatigue, terry! People get it occassionaly. I’m going to go take my frustration out on this wall, and go get some lunch. see ya ppl. hopefully better days ahead!

Lunch Justin??? Are you in the States or overseas?

I just want to let everyone know that I’m yelling out of frustration right now. I don’t think anything’s lost – I’m just a little confused at some of the decisions our manager makes sometimes. I really think he needs to take a couple days off and actually get some sort of rest. It’s affecting his managerial skills. Really.

im in complete shock right now. wat has happened to this team?!?

overseas. Australia. biggest redsox fan in the country (i think…never met any others!)

Is there a leader on this team that will have the balls to come out and say that they need to step it up? All I hear from quotes is “Well, it’s a rought spot now, the Yankees will hit a rut eventually and we’ll pick it up” Yeah, that’s it. Keep thinking that way and the Blue Jays will jump right ahead of us.
Minnesota loses tonight at home and the Sox get tossed out of KC.

How embarrasing to see KC fans with brooms waving in the air.

Vince, honey, I was just kidding.

I’ll talk to everyone later. I’m in a sour mood now. :-\

Now we get to see David Wells eat his way towards maybe going 5 innings and the Jason Johnson show on Saturday. I mean, if we are not going to use Snyder, why not bring someone else up? Johnson basically did what everyone else in the league has done (except us) and that’s beat the Devil Rays. If we think he can hold Miguel Tejada, Brian Roberts, Melvin Mora and company in check we’re going to be dissapointed. NOrmally I’d say we could win a slugfest, but we couldn’t hit anyone this week.

lol jen that hurt a little, ill miss u byebye

how embarrassing….i cant remember the last time i peuked after a game….and then to see KC wave brooms in the air…atleast it cant get any worse

don’t worry kevin, the orioles closer is chris ray, he is no carmona, but he hates facing the yankees at least.

this team is falling horribly…i thought our pitching is horrible, our offense has ****** too, and the bullpen and seriously our defens this past week hasnt been the best in the AL either.

by seeing how we get swept by the worst team in baseball ( im talking about kc not boston ) im really close to giving my yankee/sox tickets away to some bum on the corner of yawkee way.

20 unearned runs since the asb….yankees have 5…tonight would prove otherwise, yankee defense is costing them this game

yankees defense blows…they dont need defense with that lineup, i cant see how they should lose hardly at all….its a freakin all star team

yeah i know and only giambi, damon and a rod actually cost us nothing but money on that offense, it is pretty sweet

yeh i guess???

im goin to go down to the pier and mourn with my fellwo bostonians…Hope the Yanks can pull this game out of their butts like they have all year…later

Morning nationers, and vic and vince. Just popping in to say, What the Hel is going on, I’ve been back in Southern New England for 5 days (much nicer than Korea by the way) and have watched the 5 worst ball games ever. If they don’t turn this around by mon you will all get to se what i look like, i’ll be the guy getting dragged out of fenway by 6 cops after i charge the field and beat on Tavarez, Saenez or Lopez (granted many others have contributed to this ugly run but the ez’s our consistantly bad and lopez is to lazy to move over three inches to block a ball, i mean seriously don’t they teach you in little league to get in front o the ball and turn you glove).Well I am going to spend another wonderful day in Southern mass and mentally prepare for tonights ugliness. Later all

I agree that ultimately it’s a marathon. There was good piece on on the merits of not jumping out of a window just yet. And the sweep of Baltimore and Mike Lowell’s great weekend sum that up perfectly.

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