Knocked down, but are they out?

You can’t get beaten more soundly than the Red Sox have the last four games. Four utterly disheartening losses against a team they can’t afford to lose against. Still, ask yourself this: Is it indeed over, as the Red Sox sit here 5 1/2 games out with 39 to play.

Yes and No. Yes if the Red Sox continue to play like this, yes if the Yankees don’t cool off the rest of the way. But no if the Red Sox get their confidence back, not to mention Varitek, Nixon and Wakefield, and no if the White Sox continue to be inconsistent.

I can tell that you guys are deflated because the post total this weekend has been far less than it was in recent weeks. I don’t blame you for being deflated. But just remember that this is a very strange game and you usually aren’t as good as you look during a winning streak or as bad as you look during times like these.

I understand the frustration with Francona last night. By and large, I think he’s been an excellent manager for this team. But I know a lot of folks in the press-box first-guessed not bringing Papelbon in to start the eighth and also having Youkilis, a poor bunter, lay one down with Ortiz, a poor runner, on second.

But this spell is by no means on Francona. It is on the players, and, at least at this point, the front office for not improving a team that held a three-game lead at the All-Star break.

Sending Hansen down was absolutely the right thing. They couldn’t keep letting him get beaten around like this. I’d start going to some of the veteran relievers again — Tavarez and Foulke. They can’t be any worse than the young guys have been lately.

191 Comments

tough break for hansen, the future potential closer of the boston redsox. I’m with jeff, i have no doubt this will be a 2003-2004 type of offseason for the sox

Ian, since our pitching staff will be dismantled in the near future (Wells gone after this season, Wakefield leaving very soon, Schill gone after 07…), do you see the Sox signing good pitchers this offseason? There are tons of good pitchers available, one of the best pitching markets in recent times. Do you see making a deal for Zito, or someone like that?

Ian, I agree with Hansen being sent down (I’m listening to the game here at work, by the way). After that HR by Giambi (I gag every time I say his name) in the 10th, I turned the TV off (mainly because it was 1:15 in the morning and I had to be up in 5 hours). I was disgusted with the fact that Schilling gave Francona EXACTLY what he asked for (7 strong innings), and then put Timlin and then Lopez in BEFORE Papelbon. Hello, opportunity, silver platter. It was given to him just like he’d explained wanting it, and then changed his mind. Sometimes, with the way he changes his mind, he’s worse than a girl! (I’m a girl, I can say that) With that being said, I think last night’s game was the one I was probably most disgusted with because we were there, we had it won, and it was just given away. I even found myself hoping that Francona would put Tavarez in instead of Hansen last night…wow.

I think, if the boys can just figure out what in the heck they’re doing wrong and FIX IT, instead of just talking about fixing it, they’ve got a chance. I will never ever give up on the Red Sox, no matter how frustrated I get, but they need to realize what in the heck it is that’s causing their problems and fix it.

I agree that it’s not completely on Francona. I agree that it’s on the players and on the FO (FOR NOT DOING ANYTHING), but it is what it is, and we can only move forward from here. Here’s hoping David can come through this afternoon and save us from complete humiliation.

Go to the Yankees blog Sox fans. The guy who runs it said, “I dont’ care if Yanks lose 22-0 today, doesn’t mean anything”….I think he lost his mind. As a Yankee fan, I KNOW the Sox aren’t out of it. They will win today and have a chance to sweep at Yankee Stadium in Sept. I am realistic unlike most Yankee fans. We can’t even beat Baltimore at home, so Boston will be alot different. Least you have a guy in Ian who writes and cares about the Red Sox, unlike Mark who runs the Yankee blog, but then again, Mark is a Giant fan, go figure LOL…nice meeting all of you Sox fans….

hello butterfly

realistic yankee fans don’t consider it an extreme possibility they will be swept in 4 games at yankee stadium in mid september with/if the playoffs are on the line. Realistic yankee fans recognize that the orioles are better than tampa and kansas city, the team the sox have struggled with, realistic yankee fans recognize the sox are 2 over 500 against the entire american league, russ, you are an idiot, not a realistic anything, you are realistically immature and useless

hey jen!!

Red Sox fans, don’t say anything bad about the Yankees, Vince knows how to copy and paste and he will post it on the Yankees blog. He has graduted from 1st grade people. Keep the faith, season isn’t over by any stretch even for Yankee fans

lol the day you gain more credibility on either blog over me, russ, is the day i develop carpel tunnel syndrome and stop blogging altogether.

i copied and pasted A: because you are a ***** B: because I figured mark might enjoy your little cowardly actions and hopefully block you out of the blog and C: because I think everyone should share in your mental ineptitude

Any particular reason why Manny was taken out of the game? Could this season get any worse? Only an injury would result in the only player that has hit consistentaly this series being taken out.

Hey Vik, how are you?

Hey Vince, I missed you! :) Eh, I’m not listening to Sam or Russ or whoever the heck he is. I don’t take well to people talking bad about you. :-P

At least they had Coco bunt and he actually got it down. That is his best contribution this weekend. Johnny Damon’s replacement is 1-16 this series.

I don’t think they’d chance pitching to Papi now that Manny is out.

7 men left on base, Manny out, Youks banged up. This is really turning into a bad joke… It was too painful to write yesterday, but the Youkilis bunt last night was another stupid decision by Francona… he doesn’t have a Sac bunt in his entire career. I knew that was an out flushed down the toilet as soon as he squared. If Francona is so high on bunting, try a squeeze with a guy on third with less than 2 out… maybe we’ll avoid an inning ending double play.

7 men left on base, Manny out, Youks banged up. This is really turning into a bad joke… It was too painful to write yesterday, but the Youkilis bunt last night was another stupid decision by Francona… he doesn’t have a Sac bunt in his entire career. I knew that was an out flushed down the toilet as soon as he squared. If Francona is so high on bunting, try a squeeze with a guy on third with less than 2 out… maybe we’ll avoid an inning ending double play.

I’m really hurting inside now… I was so optimistic about the team in spring that this letdown seems pretty devestating…

Look, I’m not really counting the Sox out of anything just yet, but until they show signs of a great finishing run, I’m not going to really pay attention anymore… instead, I’m going to focus on something less daunting than Sox baseball… 2 AP and 3 Honor courses for the next academic year…. if manny’s injured, we’re done for. Period.

The difference between a good team and the Sox: Getting runners home with 2 outs. Sox have 7LOB in 5 innings and the Yanks just got their 1st run with 2 outs. How does a guy with speed steal second off a lefty when you know he’s going to be running to try and get in scoring position. I can only imagine how bad Javy’s throw was.

I’m getting tired of hearing about what a great pickup Abreau was… They should be talking about what a piece of shi* Abreau is for dogging it after signing the big contract. He batted .280 in a hitters park for a playoff contender. I guess now he cares and it trying again. That’s the big story… of course the Yanks can pick up the huge contract and take a chance on a .280 hitter… No big deal there.

the phillies are a playoff contender? haaa.

Did you ever consider you keep hearing about what a great pickup abreu is because he has reached base about 15 times this series and has raised his average 20 pts and been clutch so far? No, that couldn’t have occured to you, along with perhaps the jealousy that epstein did absolutely nothing to improve your own team and now it is certainly paying dividends, isn’t it?

jen, i appreciate that, i missed u too, hopefully tonight at some ungodly hour I can respond to your email, until then it is watching the game, going to storage etc. Ramirez left because he had a cramp, i wonder how many times softball players leave for the same reason

Manny has an injured leg.

Simple facts… .280 in an easy ballpark for 100 games for a wildcard contender. Huge contract, little effort in Philly. If he actually cared and played hard, maybe Philly would have been a little more successful and not so willing to dump him and the contract. I guess that’s a pretty decent approach these days… get a big contract, dog it, wait until a contender needs help, play for a contender late in the year without putting the effort in. Congrats Abreau… you did it!

oh u mean like manny ramirez his entire career? you really want to bring up effort? Maybe ortiz should work on his defense so other guys can dh, maybe he should put in THAT effort. Abreu has half a down year and all of a sudden it is a lack of effort, then he is thrown into a divisional race in the biggest market in baseball and shockingly, he starts to play really well, that is completely illogical, why would anybody thrive with a change of scenery away from a depressing media base and a cancerous front office? wow thank you, for your strong insight into bobby abreu, the extreme jealousy is not leaking through your pores right now at all

oh and the lack of pressure of him being “the man” along with the fact his plate discipline and hitting style fit in perfectly with the yankees lineup, that probably has nothing to do with it either

along with an entirely new slate of pitchers who have barely faced him, also a non factor, and the fact he was top 5 amongst right fielders in 5 different offensive categories and his rbi and OBP were still up despite just 8 hrs, that has nothing to do with it, he wasn’t putting in any EFFORT

Bip Papi won’t see another pitch to hit today with Gabe hitting behind him. This is exactly what the season would be like if we didn’t have Manny. It looks like we might actually need Coco (uh oh) to come through and start an inning off with a hit.
I think Jeff made a point yesterday about Coco being traded in the offseason. All he is doing now is hurting any potential trade value he might have had.

Anyway, man I wish we had a healthy Wells all year long.

Bottom line is both teams had injuries but if the Sox had pitching, they would have been able to pull way ahead while the Yankees were down.

And, Coco does his best effort to sabotage the Sox chance of winning by making yet another out. Has a player ever gone 1-20 in a 5 game series and still held on to the leadoff spot?? Only in a Terry Francona managed ballclub would that be possible.

lol well he may not get another at bat to be fair kevin…

You can blame everyone in Philly for Abreau dogging it. Thats fine. I do wish the Redsox were a little better picking out dogs like Abreau, but even if we did… we wouldn’t shell out 15-20 million on the chance that he would wake up. By your argument… all DH’s are lazy for not working on their defense? Manny is about as consistent as anyone in history. I don’t think he dogs it… he just has trouble with his concentration. Maybe if he hit .280 with 9 homers in an easy league, with no teams over .500 in the division… I might agree with you.

In any case, can we please put Kapler out to rest? I have never heard of 1 for 29 from any major leaguer in my life.

I hate Javy Lopez.

Gabe Kapler is just fine.

future hall of fame shortstop and ruiner of boston winning a game in this series, derek jeter went 0-32 in april of 2003. Yeah manny really puts forth a ton of effort on defense….oh no wait, he loses concentration, i forgot euphemisms bring excellent excuses to arguments.
Most dh’s in baseball have not been full time dh’s for 3 years and are probably waring down, most dh’s in baseball also are not full time dh’s to begin with, certainly not at the age of 29. Ohhh the sox never spend money now? I forgot that, thanks because spending money to pay beckett wasn’t reliant on him turning it around.

so we took the chance and we won, now how do u justify this not being a great trade again? You can’t have it both ways, you can’t say it was a bad trade and that we got lucky because that doesn’t make any sense. It is not a great trade if abreu doesn’t step it up when he comes here, therefore you deserve hearing about it, just like we all had to hear about josh beckett being a 2nd ace.

What are the odds of Foulke giving this run we just got right back?

I hope not and I hope just one guy gets on, because maybe, just maybe, Big Papi can save us from being the laughing stock of baseball for just one day.

By the way, is anyone watching the game? For some reason I’m thinking the Wild Pitch that they charged Foulke with would have been handled by a half way decent catcher. Was it a bad pitch or did Javy do his usually O-lay behind the plate?

kevin tough to tell, it had tremendous momentum for some reason once it hit lopez, i honestly don’t think there was anything he could have done. I don’t face ortiz unless the bases are loaded…

Nice job Coco.
3 pitches, strikeout. Way to be a solid leadoff guy.

So, the Sox are the laughing stock of baseball and they go play the Mariners who have lost 11 in a row? For some reason, I think Seattle would be favored.

I just kept telling myself how you told us to forget about a sweep, because it just doesn’t happen and it’s impossible to sweep a 5-game series. Oh, Ian… I wish you’d been right…

They gotta right this ship, and quick. They can’t hold their breath waiting for reinforcements, either.

don’t the yankees play them first?

Oh yeah, you’re right. The Sox get to play LA

I agree, Kevin. What a great leadoff guy we’ve got.

On another note, I had a thought, but I don’t want you guys to think I’m going all Grady on you, so I’ll keep it to myself.

The simple truth. The Yankees put the best team on the field for their fans. The Red Sox owners do not. They are concerned more with saving money. Is that fair to Red Sox fans who pay more per ticket than anyone else?

do you guys really pay more? that’s insane, i guess it makes sense though….how much are beer and hotdogs there? I recall beer and hotdogs being a quarter cheaper at fenway haha

I can go to a Yankee game for normal price (a few $$ cheaper than Fenway, I think). However, to go to a game at Fenhway, a lot of us have to pay Stub-Hub prices due to sell-outs.

pricing is about the same:

Fenway: 20-95

Yankee: 12-110

It pretty much evens out if you look at it that way.

Except due to size of the park and sell-outs, it is hard to get a normal-priced ticket a Fenway. Anyway, the point is that Red Sox management is always more concerned about saving money, whereas Yankee management doesn’t seem to care as long as they can get the best players. Johnny D. is a prime example. Goes all the way back to the Babe!

that’s wild, I always just figured we paid the most, the one game i went to at fenway i didn’t pay for.

Well that’s lovely. A spectacular performance by Wells gets wasted.

Can somebody tell me WHY we still have Coco in the leadoff spot considering he’s been down this year? Not to bash him cause he’s a stand-up-type of guy, but he can’t be leading off with performances like he’s had recently.

I think like most fans, I feel completely cheated trying to defend some our players. I’ll be the first to say I defended Beckett, but for now, I’d rather have Arroyo be my 2nd starter…if we still had him that is. Same goes for Coco; he’s simply not the leadoff type of guy we expected he would be this season and Youk should have kept that spot for the entire season.

Anyway, anybody up for some football? ::sings the MNF song::

good point crane….this was written by buster olney, posted by kasey on the yankee blog:
The disparity between the Yankees and the Red Sox in money is enormous, writes Nick Cafardo, and this year, that may make a difference.

Here’s the thing on that, though. The Red Sox may not spend as much as the Yankees, they may not believe that they should. But consider the incredible sources of income for the team — perhaps the best local revenue streams of any club, with NESN and tremendous local radio coverage and advertising; the expansion of Fenway Park; the highest seat prices in the majors; the surprising and enormous dollars that every team is getting for the success of MLB.com; dramatically increased concessions, with dozens of additional beer taps in the park to charge big money for the brew. It is apparent that the Red Sox are grossing enormous amounts of money.

The Red Sox have basically held to their budget since they won the World Series in 2004. I don’t have access to their books — the next writer who does will be the first — but this does beg a question: Where is the additional money going?

George Steinbrenner has rightly been criticized over the years for exorbitant spending, for crazy financial decisions on mediocre players. But he plows a lot of his profit back into the team.

Are the Red Sox doing that?

The new ownership group has been wonderful for the franchise, a blessing, and has worked overtime to make sure that a fan’s experience at Fenway Park is enhanced.

Are they spending the extra money needed to make sure they have a left-handed reliever or two down the stretch, or to make sure that Johnny Damon doesn’t sign with the Yankees?

This year, they didn’t.

When the Yankees play the Minnesota Twins, or the Oakland Athletics, it is a David vs. Goliath type situation. The Twins cannot compete with the Yankees’ resources, and they’ll never have multimillion-dollar middle relievers and bench players.

I don’t begrudge any privately owned company the right to make money, and keep it. The Red Sox are a terrifically run business. They can spend or not spend as they see fit; that is their right.

But let’s not be fooled here. The Red Sox have money.

What a coup this year for Red Sox front office! Yankees get Abreu, we get Javier Lopez (actually two of them!); Yankees get Lidle, we get Johnson. They got Damon, we get Crisp. That’s where i think the money concern comes in. The Yankees are willing to pay bigger bucks and, unfortunately, it works!

The Sox need a better developmental system that the Yanks, since Steinbrenner has a billion dollars to spend on baseball… That’s why we need to protect our resources…

speaking of which, hasn’t there been ANY development in Daniel Bard’s contract negotiations??

for those of you really into prospects, jeff karstens makes his mlb debut tomorrow vs seattle, wright pushed into mussina’s slot, mussina pushed back

Excellent! Mr. Yankeevmm! Hit the nail right on the head! Actually I think the Yankees actually lost money last year. I don’t know if the Red Sox did or not. I for one do not think Johnny D. should be booed by Red Sox fans, it is the people like Theo who let him go that should be booed for being more concerned with their profits than the fans!

well i doubt the yankees are gaining money at the moment since they plan to cut payroll (perfect time for our prospects to be ready soon and our huge salaries to get dumped), but I doubt there is a huge issue there

We don’t have all that many blue chip prospects left in the cupboard – alot of them are already playing for the big league team… Still, our BEST prospect, Pedroia, is still in the wings, waiting for his September call-up. But besides him, who else do we really have? Ellsbury doesn’t really have much power, and Lowrie’s been struggling. Moss, our 03 first rounder, is starting to look like a major bust, and Murphy hasn’t been all that great either.

I’m starting to worry about everything… Theo’s been doing a very good job with the farm, but now, we don’t have all that many marquee prospects left.

HA HA the curse lives on

Wisedudez, the curse was broken in 04… it was a figment of the imagination to begin with, created by the ever blasphemous Shaughnessy.

Anyway, I just remembered a great prospect in the Sox system: Clay Buchholz! He might be ready in 2 or 3 years. Does anyone know much about this guy? I’ve seen his numbers, and they are TERRIFIC.

well, actually Shaughnessy didn’t start it – he just poured all the oil of Saudi Arabia on a little fire…

In hindsight, too bad Hansen and Delcarmen and/or other prospects weren’t traded for the likes of Abreu or Lidle. Seems as though the Yankees almost always make those moves successfully. They are always ready to sacrifice the future for present, and it works cause they always have somebody new in their farm system to trade away next year

Rvcrane, I have to disagree. Both of those guys are still very young, and they’ll play pivital roles in the future, with Hansen maybe becoming a closer in 4 or 5 years. Let’s now judge them by their recent performances – they were brought up a tad too early.

Hope you are right. They definitely were brought up too early. Anyway, I have decided the Yankees are the Republicans of baseball. They are rich and use it to buy wins!

the Republicans… lol

Hey just wanted to find a nugget of goodness in tonight’s game, and I found a couple. Wells did unbelievably well today, and Foulke pitched like his old self!

If Foulke is back to health, he can go back to being closer next year, with Pap becoming a starter. Is this pure fantasy, or is this possible? Paps is better suited for starting, in my opinion – he has excelled as a starter, but he has tremendous endurance. 220 innings is more valuable than 80.

“Let’s now judge them by their recent performances – they were brought up a tad too early.” = “Let’s NOT judge them by their recent performances – they were brought up a tad too early.”

Mistyped lol

I am not here to beat up anybody when they are down. I am here just to contribute my 2 cents to what has gone wrong.

Did Theo or anybody in the sox front office ever hear the phrase PHASING OUT. You dont bring a bunch of rookies and throw them in fire. That is a recipe to disaster no matter how talented the rookies are? You never bring in 3 or 4 rookies into the bullpen at the same time. NEVER.

I really would be pleasently surprised if Foulke returns to anywhere near his old form. Anyway,maybe the solution is to raise ticket prices and revenues. It is the only way to compete with the Yankees. One thing about Red Sox fans: they are more rabid than Yankee fans and will pay dearly to see the Red sox beat the Yankees again. And– don’t “worry about everything”. Life’s too short! Plenty of other things to do besides rooting for Red Sox!

MORE SEATS AT FENWAY would generate alot of $, and would allow more fans to see the game. Maybe just extend the ballpark or something?

i don’t know about that crane, it may come off that way because you have 20,000 less seats than yankee stadium, but don’t underestimate how passionate yankee fans are.

and claiming the yankees “buy” wins anymore than the sox is a grave grave mistake consistantly made in this blog

Vik I completely agree with you about “baptism by fire” Theyre under enough pressure just by being rookies. But. “whatcha gonna do?”

jamie isn’t the whole point of the monster because they don’t have the rights to extend the park? I don’t know if they can add seats anywhere else in that stadium short of building a whole new one

Taveras and Seanez have failed miserably… if only they performed like last year, we would’ve been a heck of a lot better off! They’re getting paid alot of $$, and they’ve been total letdowns… Foulke is back now though, and has been performing very well… perhaps his picking up his option for next year at 3.5mil might not be such a bad thing, eh?

I’m not saying buying wins is wrong, but they do!! The Yankees are the least efficient team in the majors if your figure dollars spent per wins. (Twins are the most efficient). Also, when the Yankees lose for several years in a row (like in early 70’s) their attendance drops to less than 20,000 per game. Not the Red Sox! At least not since the 1930’s.

You know, I wouldn’t be totally opposed to a new ballpark… every stadium has to get replaced SOMETIME, right?

I love Fenway; don’t get me wrong… but if tickets are as hot as they are in Boston, more seats at a huge ballpark can mean a huge load of profits… i think the city or the sate might want to fund the stadium also… I’m sure there’ll be riots in the city if boston refuses to fund something for the Sox lol…

read the baseball prospectus article on the yankees, Vince. It can explain things alot better than I can – it’s a great book too. intelligent fans who want more knowledge of the game should really get it!

if their attendence dropped by 20,000 they would still draw as many fans as the sox, you can’t discredit the fans for the size of their stadium, it is so much easier to sell out fenway than yankee stadium.

the yankees couldn’t possibly win an argument of money per win because they would have to win every single game, they draw 4 million a year, make the playoffs every year, have high prices, a huge stadium and a devoted owner, complaining about them buying anything is moot point

(bigger ballpark = bigger payrolls = more wins = worth giving up Fenway)

jamie i don’t have any issues if you guys got a new park but i think a lot of people in boston would, obviously financially it might make sense, boston is in a bad location for a stadium in terms of extra size.

If it weren’t for revenue sharing, I’m pretty sure that the Yanks would’ve had a 300 mil payroll by now lol and have signed Carlos Beltran instead of Damon. (don’t know why this is relevant – just though I’d share it lol)

Wasn’t the option of building a new ballpark rejected a few years back?

Vince, before Henry took over, there existed a plan for a new stadium… why not revisit the idea? More fans would get to enjoy the game, including me! lol

well apd, great ideas are sometimes rejected before accepted. Look at history: slavery is one of them. Come on, let’s revisit the question. Why be so sentimental about Fenway? I know it’s got all its history and everything, but so does Yankee Stadium! And now, that’s going to be replaced too!

Not drop by 20,000, the attendence was less than 20,000 per game. Anyway, I agree with Jamie. I love Fenway, but try to get there or park there. No reason why a new park with 50,000 seats couldn’t be modeled after Fenway with green monster and all! It’s time to make changes so it won’t always be 86 years between championships.

lol like i said, i could care less about a new fenway, good for you guys you certainly would have the support and funding, but don’t think for a second you wouldn’t upset many people

Whilst I am as down as everyone on this site (Yankees fans excluded) I would just like to add a note of optimism. 1- Wells appears to be back. 2- Foulke looks better than last yaer. 3- Tek is close to being back. 4- Whitesox could lose load over next 2 weks. 5- At least we have got rid of Seanez. KEEP THE FAITH!!

Ellen: Thats a Theo question. He got it wrong with Tavarez/Seanez. That duo of mistakes had a snowball affect. Taxing Timlin and everybody else. Then to not do anything at the deadline to help the bullpen was plain STUBBORN stupidity.

I will keep the faith! Bye!

you know your having a bad series when the go-ahead run scores on a wild pitch

2 straight terrific starts wasted by bad managing, crappy bullpen and a little bit of tough luck

“Dollars per win” is a warped yardstick. Every win is more expensive than the next. It’s much, much easier to go from 50 wins to 70 wins than it is to go from 95 wins to 100 wins.

Also, remember: Steinbrenner (love him or hate him) ran the Yanks as a business, but invested in it as a sports team. That’s why the Yankees pull so much revenue and can spend so much. I’m old enough to remember when the Yanks had similar budgets, payrolls, and a net worth to the other major market teams in baseball. And I’m only 26 years old!

From Buster Olney:

“Here’s the thing on that, though. The Red Sox may not spend as much as the Yankees, they may not believe that they should. But consider the incredible sources of income for the team — perhaps the best local revenue streams of any club, with NESN and tremendous local radio coverage and advertising; the expansion of Fenway Park; the highest seat prices in the majors; the surprising and enormous dollars that every team is getting for the success of MLB.com; dramatically increased concessions, with dozens of additional beer taps in the park to charge big money for the brew. It is apparent that the Red Sox are grossing enormous amounts of money.”

“George Steinbrenner has rightly been criticized over the years for exorbitant spending, for crazy financial decisions on mediocre players. But he plows a lot of his profit back into the team.”

“Are the Red Sox doing that?”

I’m not sure the Whitesox will start to fail… they’ve got a pretty nice team over there. Besides, the Twins are the bigger threat, IMO… they’ve got the MVP in Mouer, and the cy young in Santana…

anyway, since it seems more fitting to talk about next season, some possible moves made in the offseason:

eric gagne: not to close. keep pap as the closer 1 more year and ease gagne into a set-up role to make sure a)he can handle boston b)he is healthy.

barry zito/mike mussina/jason schmidt: need another starter with well retiring. (06 rotation- schill wake FA beckett clement/lester.

a new center fielder: coco crisp is not cutting it.

(andruw jones?)

a 10th bat: there is no one on our bench who can pinch hit and with trot most likely not being renewed, that takes wily mo away from the bench.

any thoughts on these?

Er, addendum to my note above:

When I said “Every win is more expensive than the next” I meant, you know, the other way around. Every win is more expensive than the previous win.

I really had doubts about Wells early in the season. I didn’t think that there would be any way he would do the job. However, I thought he did the job well tonight. Shame he was left in for 0.1 of an inning too long.

I hope Foulke’s performance is back as well.

Your wishlist will put Boston over 180 mil Ryan. Andruw @ 20m, Zito or Schmidt @ 15, Gagne @ 10. If they all sign with Boston thats the minimum they are going to ask for.

Snyder is our 5th starter now, I’m guessing… sigh, at least better than Johnson lol. Then again, so is the average grandma…

We have to move on. Predictions on upcoming series?

Vik, no way Andruw Jones gets 20m… no one in baseball will… maybe 12-15?

Zito will ask for 50m, 4 years.

Schmidt, i see 2 years, 15m.

Gagne, incentives only pretty much.

lol vik its not a wishlist. wells is retiring and timlin probably will too (losing 10-12 mil) loretta and/or gonzalez are FA’s. nixon is an FA. thats minus about 20-30 mil plus i dont think theo will go after any of them because it would be against his “plan”.

and i dont think anyone will give 10 mil guarenteeded to gagne since he hasnt been healthy since 04

and i think this is foulke’s last year but he has a 3 mil player option (5 mil less than he is making this year)

It comes down to the offseason supply demand again. If it is just an incentive Laden contract nobody will sign with the redsox or the yankees.

Gagne will not sign to be a setup man. Someone will give him a closer’s job.

Gagne will not sign just for incentives. He may sign for a half-value deal + incentives, but – think harder! – either he makes his innings and gets full value, or he doesn’t and you don’t have a healthy Gagne for half the season.

but anyway its been a tough weekend. im gonna go make the most of my last 2 days of summer break.

Ok. Why in gods name isn’t anyone else completely furious at the nonchalance and extremely poor play by that jerk Javy Lopez? Morgan and Miller had it completely right the other night when they noticed he was more concerned with his sunglasses than helping Beckett out of a jam. The YES announcers actually said today that he is a better hitter than Varitek! What is going on here? This guy, along with Crisp has absolutely killed our chance at getting around the bad pitching. The juxtaposition of Crisp and Damon has been just mortifying. Can we hear something from Theo on this? I am at a low I haven’t experienced with the sox since Boone.

anybody out there?

What would you like to hear Theo say? “Uhh, oops. Yeah, that was our bad on the Coco – Damon thing. Live and learn!”

Sure, that’ll help Coco finish the last month strong. It’ll definitely help team unity, there.

I’m sure someone gave Javy a nice dressing-down after the Beckett thing. Anyone who watched Baseball Tonight will henceforth remember him as Javy “39” Lopez. But he *is* a better hitter than Tek. He’s barely a catcher, but he is a better hitter.

But you can probably forgive Tek his hitting percentage because he is pretty safe behind the plate and calls a good game. Afterall “two out of three ain’t bad”

Anyway, tomorrow is tomorrow and today’s history.

(I am just a tad nervous that history will repeat itself, though).

It’s nearly tomorrow over here, so I am going to pour myself another glass of supper and hope it will wash away the bitter taste of Yankee sweepings.

Varitek and Wakefield, WE NEED YOU

The two main reasons that this sweep happened are not Varitek and Wakefield, it’s the rest of the pitching and they Yankee pitching kept Ortiz in check….

We def need the captain back soon…or we’re done…Does anyone know the damage for the bullpen this weekend bc I know that the scorecard is not gonna be pretty..

heard a rumor that if Sox lose on west coast, they will fire Francona.New manager can’t be any worse than what we have now.
I will not watch another game till they win one.

francona is the least of their problems

I had thought our front office had done a lousy job over the last year… but it reached an all time high when I heard the gory details of the Bard/Meredith/Mirabelli trade. Bard is batting .330 in 176 at bats and Meredith has a 1.07 ERA in 25 games. We got a guy hitting below .200 who is the designated catcher for a 40 year old, injured pitcher.

I had thought our front office had done a lousy job over the last year… but it reached an all time high when I heard the gory details of the Bard/Meredith/Mirabelli trade. Bard is batting .330 in 176 at bats and Meredith has a 1.07 ERA in 25 games. We got a guy hitting below .200 who is the designated catcher for a 40 year old, injured pitcher.

Lopez a better hitter than vtek? whoever said that is definitely a yankee fan. Or related to that dog lopez. Epstein should be given one more off season to inprove the club. He hasn’t done anything outstanding since trading Garciaparra. Jury is still out on Pena. He could become a right handed ortiz if he learns some plate discipline.

You know what really scares me about this front office? Damon’s arm is as good or better than crisp’s. can you believe that? Did they know that he’d be firing throws to relaymen into the turf like he has been? Am I wrong that this guy can’t throw? He has made some good catches yes, but did anyone see the angle he took on Damon’s leadoff triple in the yankee series? I was excited to get him on the team, but he really doesn’t look very good at all. Damon has 20 homers and 20 steals.

There has been no official announcements yet, but Dustin Pedroia will be joining the Redsox very very soon. Gonzalez is out, and Cora will be playing for him on a daily basis. Pedroia will come up and add depth to the bench. As soon as Gonzo lands on the DL, Pedroia will be promoted. I’m 99% sure of it.

“Lopez a better hitter than vtek? whoever said that is definitely a yankee fan.”

Why, yes. I AM a Yankees fan!

But I’m still right.

Javy “39” Lopez:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lopezja01.shtml

Jason Varitek:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/v/varitja01.shtml

Tek wins in walks (and edges in OBP). Lopez wins pretty much everywhere else, including average, homers, RBI’s, fewer K’s, RC/27, OPS. Even dumping Javy’s two “It’s a Contract Year So I Care, Now” years.

No, Javy’s not a better PLAYER. Two things that count: being, you know, a catcher (i.e. only the second most important position on the field, after the pitcher). Oh, and being a player – we call it “intangibles” over here. You may know him as Derek Jeter. ;) Tek takes it in a rout over Javy Lopez. There’s a reason why Tek is a captain of a contender in the AL East and Lopez is a castoff of a scrub team in the same division. (I’m talking about Baltimore, not Boston) (OH I SAID IT! That’s right!)

Anyway, Bosox may have gone 0-5 this weekend, but you, my friend, are 0-6. :(

If you read the last blog RECENTLY, you’ll see that I posted there inadvertently. Must have been the state of shock that I was in, and am still..
VINCE AND VIK, and all other Yankee bloggers here: My RedSox cap is off to allof you!! The Yanks did everything, at every turn that we did not (turn single into double, steal a base… etc…

Everyone on this blog knows that I am THE “Brownie Points Cheerleader” and Sox fan with the most positive (or un-pessimistic) attitude. There was however very little for SoxFans to be positive about this series. Save for Schilling’s great outing, or David going a strong 7. The bullpen was bull-sithz… even Papelbon gave up on himself., though he only gave up one….The rest were simply horrible. At least Jon-Bon got out of a bad spot… but next time ’round!!.. He still got the blown save…

YANKEE FANS, YOUR TEAM DID THE JOB WE COULDN’T.. CONGRATS, (and y’all know how much it kills me to say this) I give credit where it is due, Good Job!! but…

You guys know that the cheerleader in me cannot leave this post without saying, IT AIN’T OVER YET

!!! Thanks for putting up with me.

GO S0X,….

I STILL BELIEVE!!!

Oh sorry Vince how are you doing?, everything falling into place, I mean college, not your win@!!!

jamie, after you’ve suffered through about 20 PLUS seasons of these ups and downs, then you’ll have earned the right to say , THE LLEH WITH THESE SOX!!,But if you’re a true SOXFAN, you wont, you’ll be saying what I have said and still continue to say and will keep on saying until I die!!g “”I BELIEVE, I STIL BELIEVE”” .., Jamie…. I REALLY DO!!

You know, I know you all think I’m just this bimbo who does nothing but rah-rah about the Sox, but this RAH-RAH BICHT IS REALLY TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT HOW BAD WE’VE GOT IT AND BLAMING TITO. He’S working with what they gave him. Quit ******* your shoelaces and hold your ******* heads high, DANMIT WE’RE THE “RIGHT SOX” FANS!! GET YOUR CRANIUMS OUT OF YOUR **** CAVITY!!

I can’t believe that they’d censor a=n=a=l. I knew they’d block the f–ing word, sorry I got pizst!

i think other then pitching problem the (fo)and and the manager francona is a cold bloody at the time of making a decicion when the game is in the line i would like to seen him go period

josh becket isnt more then a very inmature who is never able to came out of a though situation i think he need some kind of conceler to learn how to handle presure other then shilling there is not trust in this kind of situation
i love the sox but alot need to be done for our tean to have a chance till.

lol tomorrow I will know how my college status is much better ellen, i go to war with storage and loan companies tomorrow

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=gallo/060821

in regards to the little league ws and how we know more about them than major leaguers.

Ellen, you are right. We were just outplayed. We should have come out of the series with a couple of wins – Schilling and Wells did a reasonable job – but there was just nothing there. I do feel that the Kansas sweep was worse than the Yankees sweep in many ways.

Picking up on the point about Veritek, having him back may not add much to the scoreline through his bat but I think the dugout needs it Captain and the pitching staff need to feel the stability and security of him behind the plate.

I do feel uncomfortable in knocking Dougie. He may be the designated catacher for a 40 year old injured pitcher, but when he was shipped back into the team, Wake was throwing some good flutterball (its more that he wasn’t getting any run support). I think (or would like to think) that he has worked hard to compensate for the lack of Tek.

Would it be too churlish to suggest that, in future, the FO thinks twice about signing anyone whose surname ends in ‘ez’?

How long does Epstein get a pass because of the 2004 World Series win? Brian Cashman gets more far more grief from the fans and media than Epstein but consistently makes better moves.

How long does Epstein get a pass because of the 2004 World Series win? Brian Cashman gets more far more grief from the fans and media than Epstein but consistently makes better moves.

David Wells cleared waivers and can be traded:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2556812

That would be really smart… trade one of the only pitchers we have that has some pride and has shown some decent results.

Rayman, I can almost assure you that Wells will be traded to the West Coast, probably to SD or LA. It’s out of respect for a guy who has had a very good career and who has battled physical woes this season to come back strong. I see JOSH BARD coming from SD for Wells, I really do. But I think that the real motive here is to give Wells what HE’s wanted – to go back home.

Let’s not forget that Theo doesn’t deserve sole credit for the championship… Duquette got us most of the team. however, I like Theo’s philosophy, which is that the Sox need a good player development system. These last 2 seasons haven’t been real good, but I still have faith in him.

Daniel Bard can go back to school tomorrow (Wednesday), at which point the Sox lose their right to sign him. Uh oh…

Jamie- you are right about Duguette. Who can forget Heathcliff Slocumb for ‘Tek and Lowe. Also Theo should not take all the blame for this year. I wish John Henry would come out and say he doesn’t want to spend like the Yanks.

DANIEL BARD MIGHT NOT BE SIGNED!!

doesn’t this worry anyone??

It worries me Jamie. We’ve got the, what, 15th ranked in the nation knocking at our door and no one’s done anything yet? If Scott Boras causes us to lose this promising pitcher, I will personally kick his ***. But, someone better give this kid what he wants and at least get him signed. That’s what’s really ticking me off.

Hi, All:

Just thought I would drop by since I haven’t posted much since Friday – partially because of my workload, and partially because I feel deflated about the sweep. Turth is, right now there is not much to say. The Sox were outplayed, the bullpen is in shambles and there is little chance they will make the post-season playing like this. I haven’t read any of the posts dating back to Friday since I imagine they are all negative, and many are assinine.

It’s not all doom and gloom for the Sox. Like I mentioned in my last post, Epstein is a lifelong fan of the Sox as many of us are. It’s more than just a job to him. He will plug the holes in the off-season and upgrade the bullpen and rotation. And I imagine he will pull the trigger on a blockbuster deal to land a third big bat (likely a third baseman, first baseman or center fielder).

As for this season, you never know. They can turn it around in time. Time is running short though. They need to start winning series, and pulling the occasional sweep. They can’t keep losing series and getting swept.

I don’t agree with the Francona and Epstein bashing. As I’ve mentioned many times, Epstein is the reason the Sox are in contention year in and year out now. You can’t go to the World Series or ALCS every year. And, of course, you can’t be expected to win it every year. Look at the Yankees. With the deepest pockets in baseball, they haven’t won since 2000, and it is very unlikely they will win it all this season with their unsteady pitching.

Epstein knows what needs to be done, and he will do it in this off-season. The Sox will just have to go with what they’ve got for the remainder of this year. Their confidence is low, and they have no momentum. To change that, they’ve got to string together some wins. They know what they need to do, they just need to do it. Whether that happens remains to be seen.

Hi Jeff! What do you think Daniel Bard should get? A major league contract, like Hansen? Or will Bora$ snake him away from the Sox??

btw, all, I was right about Pedroia coming to the Sox!

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

be back around 5.

Seriously, what’s up with the Bard negotiations? It’s driving me crazy to think that we might let a first round pick just walk away…

The yankees listened to their ***** tampa office, i wouldn’t expect a world series drought to last much longer, I would think by ’08 it is all but a guarantee

I know this is probably something you don’t want to read right now, but I think if you take a step back and soberly look at the situation in Boston, this article is pretty sound…

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/tom_verducci/08/22/sox/index.html

still no news on Bard… Theo needs to sign him – he’s a potential future star… messing up the present AND future = BAD

Seriously, if Theo doesn’t sign Bard, there’ll be **** for him to pay… a guy just can’t say that he’s building for the future and then not sign a first round pick…

jamie is today a deadline or something, why are you going all educated fagan on the blog today?

lol here’s the deal, Vince. The Sox lose their right to sign him if he goes to class at his college of Wednesday. Therefore, today’s probably the last day that the Sox have the right to sign him… I’m getting really worried.

I seriously despise Bora$… he’s probably Steinbrenner’s best friend… the *** bros. lol

hahaha o ok, now i understand the desperation jamie

Hey, now. The Yankees can’t stand Boras, either. We may have a world of hatred and pain between us, but Scott Boras is our common enemy.

Also, I agree re: Yankees Tampa Office. Buncha turds, if you ask me. They’ve been reeled in, this year, and I think it’s done wonders for the Yankee future.

This weekend was agonizing. But it’s over. We’re playing a new team. We’re as far as you can get from Fenway. We need to forget about it and move on. Snyder starts tonight against the Angels. He can’t be worse than Jason Johnson. And our team could surge back because they now feel they have something to prove.
We can do it. Go Sox!

Julie

http://scarletfever-rsn.blogspot.com/

never mind Vince, It was my computer, but thanks for your help!! ec

Julie, you’re right.

Let’s keep the faith!

When I wake up tomorrow (the game doesn’t start until after 3am here) I am hoping to see dominance from Snyder, hot bats and a competent ‘pen. Surely it isn’t too much to ask :-D

Thinking a bit further ahead…

… a few months ago, one of our national papers said that there were plans for the opening games, involving the Red Sox, of the ’07 series to be held in the UK at The Oval (one of our best cricket grounds). Does anyone know whether this is actually on the cards or whether it was just a wild rumour?

Hey to all!! Well we’re finally on the road, I never thought I would wish for a chance for the Sox to get away from Fenway. But after this weekend….
Now’s here’s the chance to take a deep breath and move on. We’ve got the entire West Coast to play, Angels, A’s and Mariners, then home for Toronto, and the “other sox” before they get a day off on the 7th!! WHEW!!! That’s logging a lot of games w/out a day off. I truly think that we can still pull something together.

I’ll be back later for 1st pitch.

WHY IS BARD STILL UNSIGNED???

Guys, this is a big deal; if you’ve seen this guy pitch, you’d know what I’m talking about – his stuff is amazing! To miss out on having him is totally unacceptable. Where is everyone? This blog is alot less interesting if no one posts anything…

Wow! Yankee fans have finally re-entered the living population. You win 5 games and all of a sudden the egos start flying. I remember when we won the AL and I did not see a Yankee hat for 6 months. Well, talk all you want. I would still rather lose 5 in a row to my most hated team then be the only team in MLB history to blow a 3 game lead in the playoffs. Whether it was a fluke or the curse, it was still reality and the Yankees will hold that record for the rest of time. Season ain’t over boys…

Jamie,

We may very well lose Bard. It will probably be made official tommorrow that Sox lost Bard.

And No Manny today. The only thing exciting today id DUSTIN PEDROIA is making his major league Debut.Let’s see how good this guy is.

I am one of the Yankee fans loyal to Mark’s blog, and have seen the classic argument arise once again here about the “Yankees buy wins/championships”. How can a Red Sox fan realistically make this claim? Can you please point out to me the players that were on the 2004 Red Sox playoffs roster that came up all the way through their farm system.

And as far as taking on contracts in a hope that they will turn it around or whatever, Mike Lowell? Saying Abreu dogged it in Philly is ridiculous since he still put up very respectable numbers (a little lower on the HRs as expected) but how much can you expect in a lineup with no protection?

And richter, as far as being a Yankee fan, I am **** proud to root for the team with the most world championships by any team in professional sports by far, and a team that has won 5 in a row, and also be the team in the NY-BOS rivalry to have the only 5 game sweep. 1 championship and 3-0 deficit does not overcome 86 years of not winning.

Autrey, saying the Red Sox have a track record of not winning indicates that you have not followed baseball. True, the Sox did not win the World Series for 86 years, but – unlike the Cubs and many franchises in MLB, the Sox have had many successful seasons, reaching the post-season. It just so happens that the Sox have lost in heartbreaking fashion so many times. Still, that doesn’t discount the track record of success the Sox have had over the years. Yes, the Yankees have 26 rings, but to bring that up is living in yesteryear. The Yankees have no rings since 2000, and they aren’t likely to get one this season.

The bottom line is, with Epstein and Henry, the Sox will contend with the Yankees year in and year out – sometimes winning, as they did in 2004, and sometimes falling short, as they are likely to do this season. The Yankees have an unlimited payroll, so they should be in contention year in and year out. They do have a credible general manager in Cashman, and they are doing a good job in rebuilding the farm system, yet the bottom line is that the Yankees will always be the only team who can absorb any player’s contract in the off-season, and at the trading deadline. This gives them an advantage, and higher expectations.

For the Sox, a trip to the ALCS or the World Series marks a successful season, recognizing that you can’t win the World Series every year. Losing in the ALDS is not a success. That is like an NBA team losing in the first round. For the Yankees, with their payroll capabilities, there is no excuse not to reach the World Series every yeay – reaching it, not winning it, as there are many times when the unexpected happens on the grandest stage (such as the Marlins and D’Backs World Series titles).

So, in closing, you are right. Teams like the Sox have won from free agent signings. Yet you are misguided to think that the Yankees’ unlimited payroll does not give them an advantage over any team in the bigs. They should reach the World Series every year. When they don’t, the season is a failure.

I agree, Jamie. Signing Bard is important. The Sox need quality young starting pitchers that they can develop, and not have to sign through free agency. Hopefully, they can reach a last-minute deal.

Jason, I think both Sox fans and Yankees fans have reasons to be proud. This is the most storied rivalry in all of sports. The Yankees have feathers in their cap (such as the Boston Massacre in 1978, and now the sequel of last weekend). The Sox have theirs, which is the greatest comeback in the history of sports. Personally, I would rather have the latter. It was an inspirational demonstration of what can happen when a team does not give up. I hope this year’s version of the Sox can show the same fortitude, gain some momentum and regain some pride when they play the Yankees next month.

How noble of you to label Cashman as a credible GM, louderback.
Hey, while your at it, you can pop in your copy of Fever Pitch, put on your favorite Red Sox shirt and fantasize how great that year was, because that nonsense is all over. Seriously, doesn’t it make you feel great as Red Sox fans to know that you are back in your rightful place….behind the YANKEES!!!! Your team stinks, you know it, and you are just being bitter, spiteful little *******. Have a great night!

Since I have simmered a bit after the weekend debacle, I have caught up on some posts. I do agree with Vince – the Red Sox do have money. John Henry and Tom Werner aren’t paupers. Yet they don’t have the same capabilities as Steinbrenner regarding financial resources. I do think the Sox will spend in the off-season because the current ownership wants to make sure that it puts a World Series contender, and not just a playoff contender, on the field. Because of the quality in the Sox farm system, they can more easily do that since guys like Youkilis, Pedroia, Pena, Papelbon and Delcarmen will likely occupy key spots next season, and they are still inexpensive. The Sox can replace Wells, Nixon, Loretta and/or Gonzalez and even Lowell (though I hope they keep him) with key components, such as one or two quality starting pitchers to accompany Schilling, Wakefield and Papelbon; a closer to fill Papelbon’s spot; a center fielder who provides more production (I like Crisp, but I do think the Sox will trade him in the off-season); and, of course, some reliable veteran arms in the bullpen. I think that Lester and Hansen can contribute and become solid Sox players if they are not included in a trade package, but I think that, to get a guy like Andruw Jones, the Sox will have to (and should) include them in the deal.

For this season, we just have to hope that Timlin, Delcarmen and Foulke can give us what we need, and that guys like Corey and Javier Lopez (the pitcher) can do their jobs. Not much else the Sox can do at this point.

Skull, you are obviously one of the m*orons from the Yankee blog. Wy don’t you stay over there with the other delinquents, unless you have an intelligent comment to make.

Jeff: Steinbrenner is losing money. Henry and everybody else is running it as a business. Steinbrenner is past that stage. That is where the edge goes to yankees. Not the money they have. The money they are willing to spend.

Vince, I understand your point. The bottom line, though, is that the Yankees have more resources that allow them to spend more money. I do understand that they are trying to be more frugal and develop players through their farm system. Truth is, though, they are the only team that can afford to absorb a contract like Abreu’s. They can get any player they want at any time, which gives them an advantage over any team, and therefore higher expectations.

Wow, someone is a little rattled. Take it easy, man. Second place isn’t so bad, is it?

Not that I don’t think the Sox can compete with the Yankees. They can. I like Epstein’s blueprint of combining young players groomed in the farm system with free agent signings of veterans still in their prime. Epstein is human. He makes mistakes. Though I think Beckett can be a great pitcher, he has been a waste of money, and I think there is a chance he could be traded to an NL team in the off-season. That is just a hunch, I haven’t heard anything. As Yankees fans have seen, all the money in the world doesn’t guarantee a World Series. But it does help when you need to fill holes before the trading deadline, and you can afford any player you want.

I meant, “Not that I don’t think the Sox can’t compete with the Yankees. They can…….”

Jeff: This is Vik. Thats ok.

Some other (Boston, LA, Chicago) teams can make the same choice yankees made ad suffer losses. But they dont. Because for everybody else winning in business is more important to them than winning games. Which is not wrong. But for Steinbrenner, winning the game is more important than making profits.

You cant call it an unfair advantage. It is just yankees priority (winning games) vs redsox priority (making profits).

Skull, Vince and Bik are welcome here because they don’t make personal attacks. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with someone’s comments. I call comments “assinine, moronic, etc.” if I think they are way off base, but I never make a personal attack, unless someone like yourself posts a mess of words like your original post. You can gloat all you want. But if you aren’t going to make an intelligent and mature debate about baseball, stay on the Yankees blog. You’re not wanted here.

When are the Redsox going to send down Kapler so he can get some at bats some place where he isn’t killing us? This is really turning into a horrible joke. He’s a feel good story and a nice guy… but he has absolutely nothing at the plate.

and Jeff. looks like you are giving up on Beckett. Did I not tell you. His head wont cut it in the AL.

Vik, I think that before Henry and Epstein arrived, your comment that the Sox are more interested in making profits than winning was true. I don’t think that’s the case anymore. Henry and Tom Werner will open their wallets. They can only do so to a certain extent, though. I do think that they will make a splash in the off-season to fill the holes. Still, though they can compete with the Yankees season after season on the field, they cannot with financial resources. If a player likes the Yankees and Red Sox equally, and money is the determining factor, the Yankees will get that player 99 percent of the time. Johnny Damon is a perfect example of that.

I don’t buy that BS about “where the extra money is going”. Is someone trying to say that NESN brings in more money in a city with 400,000 than the Yanks bring in with 10 million? Sounds like a made up story to take advantage of the moment.

I don’t buy that BS about “where the extra money is going”. Is someone trying to say that NESN brings in more money in a city with 400,000 than the Yanks bring in with 10 million? Sounds like a made up story to take advantage of the moment.

Vik, I’m not giving up on Beckett. I think he can become a great pitcher for the Sox if they keep him. I just get the feeling they won’t. Just as Epstein felt Renteria wasn’t a fit in a high-pressure market like Boston, I have a feeling he might do the same with Beckett, though it will be more difficult since the Sox signed him to an extension. I think they might feel the same way about Crisp.

jlouderback (Jeff?) first of all I want to clear up the last sentence and the 86 years of not winning. I was continuing with the championship tone, I mean yes they have made the playoffs but is the goal of any team to win the World Series?

Another thing, able and willing to take on a contract are completely different. The Yankees are not the only team able to take on a contract like Abreu’s, the Red Sox took on a lofty Lowell contract for what he did last year. The Red Sox are making plenty of money, it’s just a matter of how much of that they are WILLING to put toward salaries not ABLE to put toward them.

And I think if you want to discount the 26 championships as living in yesteryear, than speaking of the 2004 championship is the same. If that’s the case go on this year and the 10-5 season series and divisional standings. A team’s past is what makes up its present.

rayman, NESN and the New England market that the Red Sox have, and have sole ownership of basically, have plenty of people. On the other hand, YES has to compete with SNY now and also the whole city is by no means all Yankee fans. Yes there are millions of people but there is also a much bigger split.

dont get me wrong Jeff. There is nothing wrong with making profits being the only goal of a owner. To him, it is just a business. I am sure Henry and Werner will open their wallets. But trust me, there will be a massive fall in the payroll the very next minute after the redsox suffer a financial loss (the chance of which is almost 0). But Steinbrenner is willing to lose money to keep winning.

A team’s past does not have anything to do with its present. As a Sox fan, I think it’s great that our team has so much tradition, and has had so many great moments. Yet what happened in year’s past has nothing to do with what happens today. Look at the Royals. Do you think their great tradition from the 70s and 80s helps them now? The Phillies? The Pirates? The Reds? The Yankees have lots of trophies in their case, more than anyone else. Congratulations. They have lots of legends, just like the Sox. That doesn’t mean anything right now, other than scintillating copy for books and DVDs. I would rather the Sox have their tradition than that of someone like the Rockies or Padres, but tradition means little if you don’t keep building on it.

Exactly, your last sentence is basically my point. A team’s past gives them somewhere to go from, a knowledge of what works and what doesn’t in order to keep the team competitive. Granted with free agency, it’s changed the game because the make up of a team can change from year to year, but it has to go back to building from where you came from.

I think we will go around in circles about this financial debate. The bottom line is, though fat wallets do bring in great players, it doesn’t necessarily build World Series champions. It just gives you an advantage to fill holes. However, magic like destiny and chemistry has a lot to do with a team’s success. Look at the D’Beacks, Marlins, Red Sox in 2004 and the White Sox of last year. I’m beginning to think it’s the Tigers’ year this season.

2004 redsox was an expensive team. You cant compare it with the Marlins and the DBacks. Yeah they had chemistry but it was a 130M dollar team.

Jeff?, I agree with you, money helps you to bring in the better players, but that in itself doesn’t get you a championship. I think the perfect example is the Mets, look at what Steve Philips in particular did with them, all the big name guys he brought in that flopped. And look at where he is now, and how Omar Minaya is doing with the same job. Yes the NL is weak, and the NL East in particular this year compared to previous years, but look at the guys in that lineup and what looks to be chemistry, maybe in part to the latino feel.

jeff, how can you bring up the 2004 world championship and then preach about nor harping on the past, or bring up the fact the redsox won more recently than the yankees? The reason people talk about history besides obvious happy memories is for patterns, such as the yankees historically being a better 2nd half team and closing the door on the rest of baseball, whereas the sox historically struggle in the 2nd half and if they do reach the playoffs, more often than not will not win it…

the main point about history is not to glorify the yankees during the 1950’s, but to recognize that the yankees are unlike any other team. You speak of the royals in the 70’s and 80’s, but the yankees have been great in every single decade since they won their 1st, they dominate all of history, even in the 80’s they reached the world series, that is what is so amazing, it’s not like the yankees won 10 in a row one decade and we harp on that, they have been great every decade, how do you erase 85 years from a teams success?

I agree with you Vik, many Red Sox fans that I’ve talked to since then make it seem as though they didn’t “buy” the championship to any degree. And although I’m not positive as far as the players that came up from their system but I know Mr Sock, Mr Lazy, Mr Hugs, Mr Gerry Curl, Mr Caveman, and Mr Stolen Base were not from the farm.

Vince, I’m not bringing up 2004 to dwell on the past. I mentioned that it is the Sox most recent glorious moment, but they should not dwell on it and focus on the season at hand, and the long term condition of the team. The Yankees do have a great tradition, just as the Sox do, and for the matter, the Tigers and Pirates (not incuding the last 10 years, of course). It’s great o have tradition, but so many times Yankees fans bring up the 26 rings. Like I said, as Celtics fans, we have 16 rings, but they don’t mean anything right now. The Yankees 26 rings will not do anything to help them win this year, or next. Instead, making good free agent signings and developing their players might. That is what Yankees fans should focus on, just as the Sox should look at 2004 fondly, yet focus on what the team is doing to succeed now, and for the long term.

By the way, Ian just posted a new entry.

Loudermouth, I will go anywhere and say anything I want to. In fact, you were the one spouting off about the Yankees not going anywhere once they reach the playoffs, when in fact it is YOUR team going nowhere fast. Oh yeah, and I am not here to win a popularity contest, and if I do annoy you, well that is just a nice little bonus.

P.S. A great tradition consists of WINNING, which by the way, is the part that the Sox never seemed to quite get.

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