Moving on

All this good news for the Red Sox this week, it’s hard to imagine after what has taken place the previous few weeks. Let’s see, Ortiz has a healthy heart, Papelbon just has a tired arm, but no tear, Manny is back, Varitek is back, Trot is back, Gonzalez is back, Wakefield will probably pitch early next week in Baltimore.

And out of nowhwere, they received gems from Kyle Snyder, Julian Tavarez and Kason Gabbard. But Snyder fell back to earth last night, and that’s just the way it is going to be from here on out. I thought the only outside chance they had to get back into this thing is if they had swept Chicago and Minnesota. Climbing six games against two teams in 22 games just does not seem realistic at all.

It just seems that mathematically, the Red Sox are going to need a winning lottery ticket-style miracle to get in. Looking back, that five-game Yankees series was the ultimate killer, even before all the injuries. If the Sox could have just taken two out of five in that series, they would have gone to the West Coast 2 1/2 games out of first place instead of 6 1/2. That series meant everything, it might have crushed the whole season.

But at least we’re watching an entertaining product again. Wait until Ortiz and Manny start hitting again.

I think the Jon Lester matter has given everyone great perspective. How can anyone be stressed out about a baseball game when you see what that young man is going through?


Kyle Snyder didn’t pitch tonight yet. Quick, edit him out before you cause some bad luck.

yeah, i was eluding to the game snyder pitched against the blue jays, then the games by tavarez and gabbard this week. at one point, i said snyder, tavarez and snyder by accident, and then i edited the second snyder to say gabbard.

I’m really excited to see Snyder tonight. He was unbelievable last start, getting 8 K’s (is that this year’s team high?). He’s still pretty young at 28, and the Sox could probably sign him cheaply. Ian, do you see Snyder staying with the Sox beyond this season? He’s been excellent considering what has been asked of him.

Well thank god for ESPN, tonight I won’t have to tune to gameday to “watch” my Sox, I will get to actually see them go for a sweep. Jamie, I think Lester struck out 10 against WAS in June, which was the team high. If Snyder can pitch well tonite how big would that be? 3 Gems against a perennial World Series team from pitchers I hardly had heard of (except Tavarez) when the season started. I guess thats baseball. I know people talk about the 5 game sweep at the hands of the Yanks, but just as big was the 3 game sweep by KC. I know they have improved but if we took 2 of 3 there we would be sitting in a much better position 4 behind MIN. Anyway gotta go watch the game, go SOX!(Red that is)

This is going to be real tough to come back from the way Jose is dealing.

well this suc*ks

guys anibal sanchez (sound familiar?) threw a no hitter vs. the DBacks

Congrats to Sanchez tonite, anyone from the Sox system I am rooting for to do well (unless they go to the Yankees). Hopefully Anibel can lead the cinderella Marlins into the playoffs.

Caught the last three outs, 22 year old rookie. Good for him!! Florida is a nice story this season.

Congrats to Annibal! Sensational, absolutely!

Yea, Marlins are the darlings of the NL, whatever you call that league. They deserve to make the playoffs.

well the only good to come out of tonight (in this game) is that other then DiSaster the pen was very good (5 innings 2 hits 0 runs).

congrats to anibal for ending the no-no drought. he will never forget this day. (and it makes me wonder if theo would have made that trade if he hadn’t run off in his monkey suit.

Sox were 8 out not 6 or whatever you said and now they are 9 go sox

See what happens when you talk about a sweep before it freakin’ happens? We got crushed. Oh well, a rest day tomorrow and then we get KC at home. Hopefully we’ll do better against them at home than we did in their house.

And Ellen, honey, I would love to tell Trot about his number 1 fan, but you’re seriously going to have to fight my sister for that title. I think she takes the cake.😛

Well Jamie, I love Adam Stern (and my brother thinks he’s a great player as well), so I’d hate to lose him. But I understand what you’re saying. We’ve got some pretty great outfielders (Coco was pretty hot tonight), so I guess it can’t hurt. However, I don’t know if trading Adam for Javy was really worth it. Just my opinion, that’s all.

G’night everyone, it’s bedtime for me. Talk to you all later on.🙂

Jen, You and I were right about talking about the sweep too soon!! It’sjust like a no hitter, you just don’t talk about it til it happens; just like Sanchez tonight. At work half the tv’s were on the the Sox and the other half were on the Marlins, so I go t to see alot of his nh, He looked fantastic.
As for your little sister, does she like him for his play on the field or something else??

I can’t believe Sanchez threw a no-hitter tonight. This Beckett deal is really turning out to be a disaster. Theo better put on his thinking cap… If he can only remember where he left it during his hiatus or whatever the heck he called that thing. Maybe he forgot it in Ricky Williams place?

Hanley Ramirez has 13 homers and 44 steals at age 22. Beckett has been horrible.

Well, Just when we thought we got the wagon to the mechanic and got the wheels tightened, we find out that he didn’t tighten the lugs enough!!!
Hey, I just love watching them eery chance I get and if I have to wait for next season, so be it. But as I’ve said dozens of times before, until we a re mathematically out of it…

And, I just love seeing the Dirt Dawg back out on the field. Welcome back Trot!!

rayman, i agree that the beckett trade is looking worse every day but theo didnt pull the trigger. hoyer and cherington were the co-GM’s when the trade was proposed and made. theo might have had an inside part of it but all we know is hoyer and cherington made the trade. i personally dont think theo would have made the trade cause he was unwilling to trade 2 prospect to get andruw jones. why would he trade 4 (2 top) to get a injury-plagued pitcher and a high price vet coming off his worst year ever?

and with ramirez and sanchez instead of gonzo and beckett our payroll would be about 12 mil less

Great. The Sox win two tight games, but the game I get to see on TV is a 8-1 rout. I really thought Snyder was going to have another great night after he sat Chicago down 1-2-3 in the first with two K’s. Boy was I wrong (just like I was wrong about Tuesday night’s NY-KC game result).

Sorry for the sour grapes. I know I shouldn’t expect the Sox to come roaring back and win every game from now until October, and I sure as heck shouldn’t have expected a sweep against the White Sox. I just would have liked to see a closer game. I guess I got my hopes up after Snyder did so well in the first and the Sox’ offense showed some spark early in the game.

Disappointed to see Youk out of the lineup for a night, but I understand why Francona did it and I don’t think it would have made any difference given Coco’s performance.

Can’t say I totally disagree with everyone’s assessment of the Beckett trade. Lowell has been stellar at third, and the Sox really needed someone to fill Mueller’s shoes over there. Youkilis probably would have fit the bill, but he’s doing great at first. Beckett certainly hasn’t been as good as the hype, but he also hasn’t been the worst pitcher out there. He’s among the league leaders in wins, strikeouts and innings pitched. Unfortunately, he’s also among the leaders in walks and home runs surrendered.

And I really like Gonzo. Of course, I really like Orlando Cabrera, too. What’s up with Theo and his apparent philosophy of only keeping middle infielders for a year?

Theo and the Sox FO didn’t underestimate Ramirez and Sanchez for a second. They knew that Sanchez was going to become an eventual ace or 2nd starter, and that Ramirez was meant for great things. However, Beckett is Beckett… I don’t think anyone really complained when the deal was initially made. However, in retrospect, I wouldn’t have made the deal…

Ian, just wondering, do the Sox have any legit power prospects in the system? We kinda need some after Manny and Papi start declining.

You are right Jamie. He did not under estimate Ramirez and Sanchez. He over-estimated Beckett. On the other hand, trying to sell that Theo is willing to sacrifice today for the future is a flat out lie. Here are the reasons why:

Hanley and Marte were ranked 9th and 10th best prospects by baseball america in 2005. Papelbon was ranked 91. So, how good should those two be. But Theo traded Ramirez, Anibal Sanchez AND two other prospects to get what?

Beckett, Lowell (and his salary), Alex Gonzalez (Hanley is already better than Alex). Out of the above mentioned guys, Beckett is a BIG disappointment(as of today), Lowell may not be here at the end of the season.

He traded Bard (a very good young backup catcher) and Cla Meredith for Mirabelli to catch a 40 yr old knuckler who hasn’t pitched in a while.

Then he traded Marte for Lopez (Riske) who has shown nothing.

And I am sure you guys agree that Hansen is still here only because Theo was not able to trade him at the deadline more than because he did not WANT to.

And how come the god of all young infielders hitting a ******** .100 in 12 games. I know its a small sample, but .100? with .122 obp?

Counter arguments to Yankee indian:

– The ratings of prospects are not always reliable. The mere fact that Papelbon was 91th should say that – there is no way there are 90 rookies that are better than Papelbon

– There is no way you can say that Ramirez is better than Gonzales. Gonzalez has the best fielding opercentage of shortstops in the AL and is batting a respectable .280 or so.

– Beckett has had a poor year but is still young – only a couple of years older than Sanchez if I recall. He has plenty of time to get it right and have a good career.

– Mirabelli was traded for when Wakefield was healthy.

– To say they traded Marte for Lopez is flat out wrong, that was part of a six player deal, the main prize of which was Coco Crisp. I know he has not been great this year, but the fact is the Sox needed a center fielder and lead off man.

– Yes, 12 games is a ridiculously small sample.

exactly Graham. The ratings of prospects do not mean that they will perform accordingly. So may be redsox whould stop trumpeting their great farm system. But it DEFINITELY means that they are expected to. A franchise trying to look ahead into the future will hold on to its top prospects.

-Ramirez is already better than Gonzalez. Here’s the proof.


Hanley: AVG .283 | HR 13 | RBI 49 | OBP .347 | SLG .459 in a pitchers park.

Alex: AVG .265 | HR 9 | RBI 43 | OBP .311 | SLG .410 in a hitters park (career numbers are even worse)


Hanley: .966 with 20 errors in 133 games.

Alex: While Alex is having a very good defensive year this season, his career fielding percentage is .970. In his first full season Alex committed 27 errors.

-Beckett is young (26). But this is his 5th year in the majors. If he did not improve in the first 5 years, he will never improve. And he is 4 yrs older than Sanchez. And remeber it is not a 1-1 trade for Sanchez. All he has proven thus far is that he is injusry prone and a head case.

-Mirabelli was traded for when Wakefield was healthy. But doesn’t that mean Theo was playing for THIS season, given Wakefield is 40yrs old and Bard and Meredith are good young players. Doesn’t that make Theo and everybody that suggests Boston is playing for the future hypocrites?

-I was wrong abt the Marte deal. Here is the actual deal. And it is worse than what I thought.

Redsox send Andy Marte, reliever Guillermo Mota, catching prospect Kelly Shoppach and cash considerations to Cleveland and got Crisp, Bard and Riske. Which translated to Marte, Mota, Shoppach (another highly rated prospect, Cla Meredith and cash for Crisp, Mirabelli (who you let go in the first place) and Javy Lopez. Great deal.

-12 games is ridiculosuly small sample but .100 is RIDICULOSULY low avg for 40 ABs.

sigh… back from the first day of school. Not that great; I have to literally read 1247 pages for AP Biology this year… by the biginning of May…

Anyways, I support what Brendan posted lol. The prospect raking system is pretty arbitrary, and isn’t dependable at all. I wish we still had Marte though… he’s gonna hit 30+ HR per season soon, which is awesome for a 3B. A few Gold Glove nominations wouldn’t surprise me at all. I personally was dead against the deal from the very beginning. However, if Crisp develops into a dependable leadoff hitter, I might soften my stance lol

and the God of all second basemen

You are right Jamie. Crisp has play like Andrew Jones or Johnny Damon to make that deal look good. He playing like he did for Cleveland will make it look decent. I did not know Shoppach was involved in the deal. I am so happy now that I know Shoppach came to Cleveland from Boston.

All this leads me to believe that Theo is being dishonest when he says ‘I am building the team for the future’. He is not. It is not very uncommon for GMs to make mistakes. But Theo is trying to find cover instead of fixing them.

After the disapointing 8-1 rout last night I was feeling pretty bad. I began to think of things that might have been. I started running this season through my mind especially where the wheels started to come off beginning with evil empire. After reveiwing everything in my mind I could only conclude that as a Red Sox fan I am as proud of this team as I was of the 2004 team. Never can I remember a team with as much adversity as this one has faced. Through it all they played their darndest and showed a lot of class doing it. The two we just took from The W Sox was on shear guts. This isn’t the 1975 team watching Yaz weakly pop a foul to third ending a series we had in hand, this isn’t 78 that saw Bucky Dent and Reggie Jackson decimate our season when we should have coasted to the finish line nor the 86 team that had the game won but but lost in heart breaking fashion. Those team yes you can say they disapointed and broke our hearts but no my friends not this team…not at all If I am broken hearted it’s for a 22 year old pitcher with a grim diagnosis. This team has showed nothing but class Francona in my mind given what he had to deal with is manager of the year.

Got to hand it to Loria he put together a good young team down here in Florida. Congrats anibal As for the chatter about Crisp, wait til next year (I’m a Red Sox Fan I can say that)

Counters to the counters to the counters:

– If Beckett is 26, how can they be trading away prospects for current glory? It is not like they are trading for a pitcher in his prime, they are pitching for someone who could be the rock of the rotation. I am not claiming Beckett will be this, but it is for this reason they traded him. In other words, they traded him still with a long-term outlook in mind.

– One swallow does not a summer make, and one no-hitter does not a great pitcher make. I can be corrected if I am wrong, but I read that the last rookie to throw a no-hitter was Bud somebosy back in 2001. I know I have not heard of him since starting to follow baseball in 2003 (maybe someone can tell me if he is injured or something). Beckett on the other hand, has had one bad year. His ERA for the previous three years: 3.37, 3.79, 3.04. So you cannot write him off as finished just yet.

– Who cares how many errors Gonzalez made in his first year? It is not a uniform trend to improve your fielding as you get older. A-Rod was close to being a rock there last year and at last count had made 3,429,623 errors this year.

– If Murphy is batting .100 when you add a 6 between the 12 games he has played this year, then the point will be valid. Remember Jeter had his slump at the start of 04/05, can’t remember which, and ended up with a very respectable average. I am by no means saying Murphy is Jeter, but don’t judge him on 12 measly games, even less so because he is a rookie and he is making the bigest jump coming to the big leagues.

By the way, no offense but saying Epstein would have traded Hansen is an arbitrary comment with no basis.

Glad for the guys to have a day off.. Their 1st since the Yankees series. We all sometimes work overtime, but how many of us work 3 weeks without a day off. Yeah, I know some (alot) of the guys were out with injuries, but I don’t think that counts. They, especially the pitching staff, needs this day off.
Bad thing last night. They sure had Snyders number from pitch one, and the lack of hot bats was awful for us. Hey, what at this point can we do but stand behind our team??

-They thought Beckett is a ROCK. A young one.
-Anibal Sanchez’s no hitter has nothing to do with my opinion. Just speaking out my long formed opinion at the right time. Beckett’s era is in NL in a hitter’s park. The max wins he has in a year is 15.

-I just threw out Alex Gonzalez’s first year errors in comparison to Hanley’s. I also mentioned Alex’s career fielding percentage which is a not so great (.970). Alex commited 16 errors each of the last 3 seasons. This year is more an aberration, If any is. I donot know how much truth there is to this, but Detroit announcers claim redsox infield is the slowest because they grow grass the longest. That could have helped IF it is true.

-I was talking abt Pedroia. But I said it was a small sample.

-It is very popularly believed that Hansen was offered in several trades at the deadline. Jones, Oswalt, Clemens everybody. They fell apart because almost all of them wnated Lester included.


I am sure Crisp is going to be a lot better than he has been this year. But he will never be close to the value redsox gave away to get him.

Jamie, do the math, 1247 by 7 mos by 30 days is appx 5.7 pages per day. When baseball season is over, you should have no problem getting that done. Would you like to trade places with me?? Work 2 jobs, take care of a house and a lawn, laundry, bills, etc?? I’ll trade places with you in afriggin heartbeat lol!!

larsfun: I couldn’t agree with you more!! I think that the Lester diagnosis put things truly into perspective for all of us as Sox and baseball fans. After all, as they say, (sometimes I agree, sometimes I don’t), IT’S JUST A GAME. ITS JUST BASEBALL. In this case,I absolutely agree!!

I’d like to know who were all the Baseball experts who rammed it into the publics throats that the Marlins were going to lose 100 games (or more) this season. I love seiing the experts exposed for the frauds that they are. These kids had NOTHING to lose, all they wanted to do was get to the SHOW, and here they are!!I guess if we can’t be in the post season, this is about the best 2nd choice we could a have to root for. BUT.. I STILL LOVE MY SOX!

Ellen – I completely agree with you on wanting the Marlins to do well. The only thing is, I want the players to do well, but I find it hard to root for the franchise. This is because of what they have done to the franchise in terms of shipping off all their players, and also because their fan base does not seem to be as loyal (apologies if I am generalising).

Yankee Indian – if they thought Beckett was to be a young rock, then why do you think they are sacrificing the future for the present?

jamie, a little hypocritical to say baseball rankings are bogus after you tried shoving it down my throat all year about how the sox system was better not because of what they have produced compared to the yankees (i think the success in the majors by rookies so far favors the yankees in recent years) but because of the rankings the sox prospects had compared to the yankees.

Brendan: Because I think redsox have a better future with Hanley, Hansen (who was offered), Anibal, Marte, Bard and Meredith than with Beckett, Lowell, Gonzalez and Mirabelli.

And I honestly think they thought Beckett was going to be good NOW. With an added advantage of being young. And you cant build for future by trading future. If you trade Trot or Manny or Varitek for Beckett, that is building for future.

lol Vince, it’s pretty hypocritical, but it’s only because I changed my mind. I’m not saying that the rankings are totally bogus. They’re created by some intellegent men, with educated projections. However, predicting baseball is pretty much impossible, so any ranking system is at the mercy of the unpredictable game.

and you know, it was fun debating… we don’t really do that anymore lol

lol i know jamie, i’m trying to find a way to spend more time on the blogs again, I think by next week i should officially have my routine down, one huge diff between college and hs is establishing a routine, it is like you change your lifestyle every year as opposed to just your grade….at least that’s how its been for me so far

ellen, the “experts” said the marlins would lose 100 game because of their talent level. they leave out all of the intangibles like the nothing to lose mentality. “experts” are paid to publicly state their opinion. if they were always right, why would anyone watch?

yeah, I guess one’s lifestyle doesn’t change much during high school… I kinda like it that way lol. Nothing to worry about except for history essays and Bio labs.

Sigh, 2 worriless years to go – I might as well enjoy it lol. holy **** I’m a Junior … I still feel like a 7th grader – no kidding either!

but yes, ive had it with “experts pretending that they are gods. the blue jays have been bad this year (they were supposed to contend all year) and no one saw the tigers leading the central on september 7th. (the one “expert” i can no longer stand is mark may (college football). he is one of the most annoying “experts” ever to be on espn)

haha jaime i miss 7th grade. the easy homework and extensive recess. i would never eat lunch so i had more time to play football. (the only thing we ever did)

I always find it amusing when people assume a player’s performance would be EXACTLY the same for every team in MLB. Take Esteban (or as they called him in NY, Estebomb) Loaiza, who’s 4-0 in his last four starts with a microscopic ERA (around .74) for Oakland. Who would have predicted that?

Who’s to say Anibal Sanchez pitches a no-hitter for the Red Sox? Who’s to say Josh Beckett wouldn’t have gone 18-8 for the Marlins this year?

//Beckett is young (26). But this is his 5th year in the majors. If he did not improve in the first 5 years, he will never improve.//

Says who? There are plenty of pitchers in baseball (Curt Schilling for one) who struggled their first few years and then blossomed once they harnessed their talent.

The problem with evaluating and judging talent is, bottom line, that you’re dealing with living, breathing, flawed human beings. Human beings can rise to ridiculous heights, or fall flat on their faces. They can thrive in one city and fail miserably in another. They can have a terrible year, then have a great one. They are not computer programs.

And just one thing, Ian, if you’re reading this, and if you have any input at all with Theo – please, for the love of God, PLEASE tell those guys to get over their Julio Lugo fixation. If they sign that error-prone little troll to a contract this winter (losing Gonzo in the process) I swear my 35-year run as a Red Sox fan is going to be in serious jeopardy.

I have to think they can’t be that stupid. Please, God, don’t let them be that stupid.

Hacaro: Schilling had a very good first 5 years (in which he pitched considerable no of innings). Here is the link to his career stats.

There may be one or two guys who started learning after the first 5 yrs. But that is very rare and exceptions are not examples.

“The problem with evaluating and judging talent is, bottom line, that you’re dealing with living, breathing, flawed human beings. Human beings can rise to ridiculous heights, or fall flat on their faces. They can thrive in one city and fail miserably in another. They can have a terrible year, then have a great one. They are not computer programs.”

Thats why GMs are paid all those millions. Their job is to evaluate the talent, work ethic AND the personality of a player. Those are the questions a GM should answer before signing a player. If it was an exact science, trust me, I’ll do a better job than a lot of GMs, given my education. But it isn’t.

It would help Theo a great deal if he quits judging a player based on 2 games the player pitched against the yankees.

Everybody loved the Beckett trade. And it may still turn out to be a good one. He is 26 after all and has been a ws MVP.

But if he just pitched reasonably well this year, we’d still be in it. think of how many times he got blown out. I’m not even talking so-so performance. I mean, out of the game, 4th inning, we’re down 5 runs. I can think of 5 games off the top of my head. Take those 5 games and make them quality starts, not even win and it’s safe to say that his performance is the major reason we’re probably not making the playoffs.

Yeah, we’re 6 out in the lost column. Not dead yet. Losing the last game against the chisox hurt a lot. we need to sweep KC and sweep Baltimore. And hope. And even then that probably won’t be enough.

Great night for a tea that was not playing with White Sox and Twins loaing. Have to hope for more of those. The next week is the make or break as our schedule is relatively easy. Hope the others drop the ball.

Yankees Indian – they didn’t sign him on the basis of two games – they signed him on the basis of him having a low ERA for the last three years. You can say pitcher’s park, NL league, whatever, but there aren’t many pitchers who put up good numbers for three consecutive years who are not highly thought of.

Beckett’s road era over three year period before coming to Boston was 4.1 (2.87 home/Pro player stadium). What does that tell you. a road era of 4.1 in NL. If you wanna call it LOW.
btw Beckett was in the top 40 in NL in era only once. That pitching in Miami. Give me a break.

I don’t know where the stats come from for the top 40 thing but I find them highly suspect. I find it very hard to believe given his ERA over the past three years has been 3.37, 3.79, 3.04. Jeff Francies, for example, has an ERA this year of 3.79 (worst of Beckett’s 3) and he is in 14th place. Where are you getting that figure from?

it truncated the full link. So I posted it in 2 lines.

My mistake. They did not include Beckett in the rankings for some reason. Strange.

Maybe he did not pitch enough innings? Answers on a postcard…

Will someone please tell me if I read Jarvis’ stats correctly? He’s been in the pro’s for appx 12 years and has never had a winning season? If that’s correct, wow, I hope he has enough to get through 5-6 innings without too much damage. I think we really need to have some hot bats tonight.

30 minutes til game time, anybody out there?

Ellen, that’s not quite true. He had one winning season since starting sixteen years ago. That was a 12-11 record. Only twice in his career has he an ERA for his season under 5. His career ERA is 6.04 (and that’s over nearly 700 innings – not like it’s a small sample). I think the Sox bought this guy on Ebay for $14.

And if they did, they overpaid for him.

may be he can go complete game. Whats 9 more after pitching 700. lol.

ebay?? I heard they picked him up at a garage sale, he came with a pair of salt shakers and and end table.

haha I think this guy would get a complete game after throwing 1,500 pitches and giving up 86 runs.

That said I have EVERY confidence in his ability to do the job tonight.

I hope that he just gets through 4 2/3- 6 inninings without a lot of damage, Did you happen to notice his average of innings pitched per??

on a serious note: I hope he has a great game and just kicks butt!! I heard they had the bats in the oven today giving them some pre-heating time. I hope it works. Noexcuses, we need these games, every one of them!! (oops, the cheerleader in me just popped out!)



Please don’t let him walk a run in

Where are the rest of the Nation regulars tonight??

Brendan, you’ll have to excuse Yankee Indian. He has a limited knowledge of baseball, and as a Yankees fan, an even more limited knowledge of the Red Sox. He embarrasses himself on a consistent basis on this blog, thus the reason he would be better suited to remain on the Yankees blog.

You’re very right. Judging Murphy and Pedroia based on their brief cup of coffee in the bigs is very foolish. It takes some players longer to adjust than others. Same goes for Hansen. He’s a guy with great stuff who was pitching in the Big East last year. It takes some players longer to develop in the big leagues than others. It’s very evident that Murphy, Pedroia and Hansen will all be solid big leaguers in the future. It is very premature to criticize them. Beckett has improved every year he has been in the majors. This year, he has been inconsistent. Yet, he has such tremendous stuff and composure that you don’t give up on a guy like that after one inconsistent season. It’s best to reserve your opinion on Beckett until next season.

But, like I said, Yankee Indian has only been following baseball for a short time and does not understand the nuances of the game. So it’s best to not place any credence in his opinions.

Ellen, I remember when Jarvin was a young guy with the Reds. He showed some promise, but never quite developed into a consistent winner. But, the Sox rotation is so ravaged by injuries that they have to turn to guys like Jarvis and Tavarez.

I think there will be a major shakeup in the off-season. Next year’s rotation may feature Schilling, Beckett, Papelbon, chances are either Zito or Schmidt and a fifth starter who will be obtained via free agency or trade, or perhaps Wakefield. I would be very surprised if the Sox didn’t get Zito or Schmidt, and trade for and/or sign another starter, two middle relievers and a closer.

Lester would be a great addition to the rotation, especially now that he has some big league experience under his belt, but I imagine he will not have the strength to rejoin the team until the middle of next season at the earliest.

I think the Sox should consider trading Manny as well in the off-season if they can get a good deal from the Mets or the Angels. It would be nice to get Ervin Santana, Howie Kendrick and another top tier, major league ready prospect (this deal was discussed last off season). Then the Sox can sign a guy like Carlos Lee to play left field. Just a thought. I like Manny, and he’s the best all-around hitter in baseball, but he is in his mid-30s, and the Sox can still get extreme value in return for him.

I like the ideal of getting Lugo, if he can play center field or second base. I don’t like the idea of him playing shortstop, though. He is error prone there. I think Pedroia will be a solid player, but he is better suited for second base as well. We definitely need a center fielder who is more patient and gets on base more often than Crisp. I’m all for trading him in the off season.

Umm. Lets see Jeff. Do I have to respond to that. I think not.

Also, one more thing about Yankee Indian’s comments. Bard and Meredith are not considered top tier or even second-tier prospects. They are definitely better suited for the NL. As for the Beckett deal, it made a lot of sense to acquire a young top-tier starter like Beckett for Hanley Ramirez and Sanchez. Epstein’s philosophy is to only surrender top prospects when the Sox can get a younger veteran in return. I think it was a good trade. You have to give up something to get something. Hansen was only on the trading block because he is a top-tier prospect the Sox can give up to get a veteran in his prime. Same goes for the off season. If the Sox have to give up Hansen in a package to get someone like Andruw Jones, it is worth it. Otherwise, it is not.

He traded Marte, not just for Riske (who was a minor part of the deal), but mostly for Crisp, which hasn’t panned out. Yet it’s too soon to say that deal is a bust. The Sox will likely deal Crisp in the off season, and they will be able to get value in return, especially if they deal him to Atlanta.

If is unjustified to judge a trade based on the initial year. If next year or the year after, Beckett does not become the No. 1 of No. 2 pitcher we expect him to be, then it is fair to say the trade was in favor of the Marlins. As for now, it’s too early to say that.

Cathing up on other posts, I do agree that the Sox must sweep the Royals and the Orioles, and then start winning each series rather than losing or splitting. The odds of long – especially with Papelbon likely done for the year, Wells gone, Lester out. You never know, though. Baseball is a game where you can expect the unexpected. Anyone who has followed the game closely for years knows this. Though the Sox likely would not even reach the World Series if they earned a wild card, earning a wild card with everything that has happened would be a tremendous feat. The student of the game in me says that it won’t happen, but the Devoted Sox fan in me hopes it will.

As I mentioned, if the Sox don’t reach the playoffs, I’m pulling for the Padres. I think they have a chance to win the NL if they can get into the playoffs. I do think that the Tigers will win the World Series this year. Tigers-A’s in the ALCS. Padres (winning the NL West)-Mets in the NLCS. Tigers over Mets in the World Series. What does everyone else think?

Time to end the Jarvis experiment. It would be better to let someone from Pawtucket get a chance. Couldn’t do any worse.

Jeff: For all you trumpets abt being a knowledgeable baseball fan, the chance of a Tigers-A’s ALCS is less than the probability of redsox making the playoffs.

You’re entitled to your opinion, as infallible as it may be. The Tigers will not be stopped, and the A’s are very hot at the right time. We’ll see come October.

Its not opinion Jeff. If the redsox doesn’t make it to the playoffs, the wildcard comes out of central. Which means, the tigers cant play them. Which means it is tigers Vs As ALDS. So both cant be in ALCS. Got it, Mr Wiseman.

The Tigers won’t necessarily play the A’s in the ALDS. They could play the Yankees. It depends on records.

So you think, the yankees will have AL’s best record. They will still play the WC team.

Here’s the deal Jeff. The only way there could be a Detroit Vs A’s alcs is if the tigers dont win AL central and make it via wild card and beat yankees and the A’s beat the Central winner.

The Steelers looked good last night, and Ohio State is playing well. I’m hoping the Sox can sneak into the playoffs since the Steelers should do well this season, and OSU will contend for the national title. That would make a nice trifecta for my longtime favorite teams. OSU-Texas should be a great game tomorrow.

Nice change of topic Mr Wiseman. Do you see who’s embarassing themselves here. hahaha.

Where are you getting your playoff scenario information, Vik? I might be mistaken, but I thought the team with the best record plays the team with the worst record (if the wild card comes from their division, which unless the Red Sox make it, the White Sox or Twins will). If it’s based on that, I think the Tigers will play the Yankees in the ALDS because I think the A’s will finish with a better record than the Yankees. If the playoffs are arranged in a different manner this season, I would like to know, because I’m not completely sure.

“A’s will finish with a better record than the Yankees”

and the redsox will win the world series

The A’s will only be two games behind the Yankees after tonight. Don’t be too confident in your team.

A’s schedule



Vs WSox

Vs Cleveland (4 games, who are really hot now)

Vs Angels

Vs Ms

@Angels (4 games)

I like that schedule for the A’s. They have four series at home, and they are very hot. The Twins and White Sox are the only teams who will test them.

3-0 @ Tampa
1-2 @ Twins

2-1 vs WSox

2-2 vs Cleveland

2-1 vs Angels

2-1 vs Ms

3-1 vs Angels

How does that look?

Its all good Jamie except they wont be going 5-2 against Angels this time around.

omg. Are they ur predictions. I thought it was their record this season. Fair enough except Vs Angels (if they are ur predictions).

Even if your predictions are right, the yankees have to lose atleast 12 of the next 24 for Oakland to have a better record.

well it’s a good thing Varitek is back to help with the young pitchers…phew…

Sweet Caroline must of gotten em going

I decided that when we were starting to win (1-0)that I would leave for a little while (WHEN i X’D OUT OF THE COMPUTER WE WERE GOING UP 3-0)and not jinx the Sox, I come back and we’re down 8-3. I sit back down and now we lead, I love this!….COME ON REDSOX HOLD IT!!!

Unbelievable turnaround here, that KC bullpen is a complete joke. You have to feel kinda bad for them, that is now 2 times in their last 4 games their pen has blown huge (4 and 5 R) leads in the 8th. Please hold them in the 9th. If we win it will feel somewhat tainted.

I thought I heard on some earlier posts a few other bloggers were going to this game. If the Sox pull it out this must have been one helluva good game to go to.

Doesn’t matter how you win and who you win against as long as you win, especially when you’re fighting to get back in the wild card hunt and needing to start a winning streak.

Don’t say they are a complete joke until we hopefully pull this out!

I didn’t say their entire team was a joke I just meant their pen was, still a long way to go with iron mike on the hill

This game is making me nauseous lol, back and forth and back and forth

NIIICE K, come 1 more!!!!!

awww poop

It’s frustrating watching Timlin pitch. He’s heading the way of Alan Embree, a longtime solid reliever who just can’t seem to get the job done anymore. I hope he’s not back next season.

Kinda surprised they took Burgos out, he has success against us

This mirrors the entire season – a bullpen that is inconsistent. I hope we don’t have this aggravation next year.

That loss kind of sums up our whole season.

I, along with the rest of RSN will continue to watch this team till the end of ’06, but tonight might officially be the proverbial final nail in the coffin.

Well, another lead bites the dust!!! Another L in the column.

great minds think alike jlouder lol

You are absolutely right on the 1st thought, but I can’t even say the other until the math is done! I wear rose colored glasses and I am the eternal optimist! Yeah I get disappointed alot, but when we get the glory instead of the disappointment, it just tastes so much sweeter!!

…and as a lifelong SoxFan, I won’t say I’ve gotten used yo yhe taste of disappointment, but it’s a lot easier to take as the years go on.

We need someone like Scot Shields to be a reliable set-up man. I don’t believe for a second that Theo meant Timlin to be our set-up man this year; that’s why he signed Rudy Seanez, who was supposed to have an ERA around 2 or 3 (haha, seems funny now, doesn’t it). Taveras was supposed to be the 7th inning man, and Timlin was supposed to do whatever was asked of him. That, however, didn’t really work out… the EZ bros tanked, and Timlin’s ERA doubled. Foulke’s back is troubling him, and Pap has a bad shoulder.

Injuries took 2 of our relievers. Plain old ineffectiveness took the other 3. I think Theo did a superb job last offseason… for a mere human without psychic powers, anyway lol

For what its worth heres my opinion on the playoff picture…






Champs: MIN

I know Yankee fans assume I do this b/c I am a BOS fan, but with Liriano and Santana going a possible 4 times in a five game set I like their chances. Remember, NY has never seen Liriano and they always have trouble against guys they have never seen before (Anibel Sanchez, Loewen, Luke Hudson, de la Rosa, etc.) Throw the past dominance out the window because now the Twins can say we have someone other than Santana and that will give them confidence and not put their tails between them legs just b/c it’s the mighty Yankees.

sorry I meant STL @ MIN

rizzo: Minnesota is 35-36 on road this season. And its not like Santana will be going against Wright. He’ll face Mussina. And Liriano will face Wang. At home I like the yankees chances in close games. That is assuming Liriano returns at full strength (May I remind you guys that he was not close to his normal self after returned from DL for a bit). Having said that, Minnesota is the team that scares me the most in short series.





Champs: MIN”

Are you kidding me, the Twins never beat the Yankees in the playoffs. I think it’s goint to be a subway series.

Hello everybody, well I was watching the yankee game and it made me start drinking earlier than expected, but seeing boston fail in classic boston fashion made me happy. Boy I tell you, those royals are certainly a pain in the *** for the redsox…3-4 and all…Yankees are now 7-6 vs the orioles, the one bain in their existance…besides the angels. Anybody at this point who thinks the yankees will not win the east is simply basing it on hope for their team, there is absolutely nothing logical to point to to try and say the redsox will come back. The sox are nearly back at full strength (we also don’t have our closer right now) and they still can’t put teams away. The yankees remaining games are all within their division, where they have a winning record (7-6,7-5,10-5,8-3) against every single team in there. You can guess who the 10-5 is. I expect them to win all the season series within their division.

The beckett trade has favored the marlins so far and if you deny that you are kidding yourself, but I agree it is too early to call it a historic bust….If beckett underachieves next year then even having to wait 2 years for the real beckett when sanchez and hanley ramirez performed out of the gate is a bust in itself.

Weirder things have not happened, no team to the best of my knowledge has overcome this deficit in the final 3 weeks of the season, not even the 78 yankees. I think the yankees can rest Jeter, Giambi, rivera, villone, and posada for the rest of the season and still win the division, but obviously that will not happen and it is never good to kill momentum heading into the playoffs, unless you are the 2000 yankees.

As far as the whole playoff picture goes, I have posted my opinion before, but the fact of the matter is it tends to be the hottest team heading into the playoffs…The whitesox were reeling last year until they won their final 6 games of the regular season and then blew through the playoffs going 17-1 to finish the year. Before that the redsox, i think we all know what they did at the end of the season….The marlins were the same old story, as were the angels (perhaps the best example of getting hot at the right time) and the diamondbacks. One thing I will say, to put faith in santana who tends to never go deep into games and Liriano who is coming off a fairly significant injury and missing a fairly significant amount of time, as a rookie, is simply being optimistic. I would take Santana over mussina, but not liriano over wang, who has I believe 1 or 2 losses at home this season with an era under 3. After that, I take the yankees with games 3 and 4, santana in 4 or not. Like i said, the tigers have a great staff, but they have not beaten good teams this year consistantly, not just the yankees, but pretty much all of the playoff contenders.

To think a young team will learn how to in the playoffs, somewhere most of them have never gone deep into (besides pudge and rogers….whom is a playoff nightmare for his team) is being illogical, student of the game or not.

The A’s are scary, but I don’t believe in them for two reasons…ok maybe more than 2.

1. They are always hot in august and september, their recent success does not necessarily mean it will carry over. They were hot in 2000,2001,2003, etc. and still did not escape the first round of the playoffs….The braves had great pitching in the late 90’s and couldn’t escape the alds either.

2. Their offense, even though defense and pitching primarily wins games, is too weak to make a deep run.

3. We don’t know which zito will show up, the one the yankees own, or the young cy young winner.

I think the yankees will finish where they are, 2nd best record in the AL and they will play the twins/whitesox in the first round. I don’t think oakland will catch them and I don’t think they will catch the tigers, mainly because I think the yankees focus is being healthy and putting the best team on that october field that they can, therefore once they feel the division is a guarantee (prob after the redsox series) they will start to rest their regulars…When this happens, I fully expect this blog to get excited when the yankees start losing more games than usual and citing that they are not ready for october, then when the yankees win the alds in 4 you all can expect me to rub it in.

I know the Yankees will probably rest regulars after the Boston series b/c after that Sunday game the magic # will most likely be 4 or 5 at the worst. But with these starters getting rested, there is a possibility Oakland can catch them. I would recommend to NY they give the starters a couple of days off a week to recharge their batteries but no way should Joe rest them for the majority of the time. If after the Bos series the Yankees are 2.5 better than Oakland (which is what they are now) and they go 6-7 or 5-8, Oakland could sneak up and go 10-4 or 9-5 and then have a better record, eliminating the Yankees home field advantage in the ALDS. That would mean they would go to Detroit. This is not something that should happen, but it could if they play guys like Nieves, Thompson, and Green for 7 of the last 13 games.

Everybody is conceding the west to the A’s. But the Angels are only 5 games behind A’s with 7 games remaining head to head and the Angels are VERY CAPABLE of catching the A’s. That is bad news for us yankees. I hope the Angles wont win the west and if they win the west, I hope they’ll be eliminated in the ALDS.

I don’t think the Angels can catch Oakland, LA is hot right now and still 5 out. Oakland can coast to the finish. LAA’s pitching is too young. Weaver and Saunders aren’t used to pitching this long into September, and I really dont trust Kelvim Escobar. Of those 7 H2H games, it will most likely be 4-3 meaning LA will only make up 1 game there. I think Yankee fans can breath a sigh of relief b/c LA won’t be with them come October.

If the Angels dont make the playoffs, I will be the happiest guy on earth. But I cant rule them out until they are out. All that needs to happen for them to beat the A’s is one other guy (other than Vlad) to get hot. With their pitching and bullpen, they are in a position to win every game.

I wouldn’t mind going into detroit or oakland, it is going into chicago or minnesota i would prefer avoiding…I have zero fear of detroit in the playoffs

Nationers, anybody here?? Josh is just having another bad outing. We go down 2-0, come back and tie it, and then he lets 2 more score. COME ON JOSH EXTRACT YOUR HEAD FROM YOUR CAVITY. jUST SETTLE THE LEHH DOWN.

David DeJesus’ pic on gameday looks like Mariano Rivera’s body double. Anyone else see the similarity or am I imagining things?

Wow, I guess everybody else actually has a life, and that leaves me here. … Either that or I forgot to apply my deodorant today. No, wait I know I did!! So where is everyone??

I smell a Papi walk-off

No pun intended Ellen lol

I did’t see that but speaking of similar looks, compare Trot Nixon and Dustin Pedroia, I know they bat opposite, but his stance is like Trot’s, he swings like him and runs like him too! Too bad Trot couldn’t hit an HR like HIM tonight!

Good one rizz!!

I wasn’t impressed by Francona’s decision to pullTrot (not because he’s my favorite), but didnt he know that as soon as he did that, they’d pull their pitcher?? Trot might have popped up too but he plays right field at Fenway like NOBODY else!

Hey Rizzo, I’m smelling something too, I think it’s disaster, I PRAY TO YAZ, TED, FREDDIE, CARLTON AND JIM, that my nose is just screwed up and I’m wrong!

So once again we’ve had to use the majority of the pen, and the bench. I just don’t know??
Everytime Manny get’s up, it’s still evident in his ab’s that he’s sulking. And stealing with 2 out?? You know Terry didn’t call that.

Well, at least we know that the only reason our Sox are playing so poorly is that Ortiz, Ramirez, Varitek, etc our out. Once those guys come back, watch out Yanks!…oh, wait….

I guess tomorrow I have to go out and buy my white flag. The feelings I have right now, I can’t even explain, I still LOVE MY SOX, but something has got to give, oops it already did, but not in our favor. I’m so close to being done. I guess you can say the cheerleader has just about hung up her pom-poms for the season.

Hey jss kissoff

jss, I never threw one piece of **** at you all season, why throw it at me now??

You know when Francona made the first change it was like it was a loose thread. After that KC just pulled on that thread and the entire thing unraveled(SP). I can only hope that something REALLY good happens for us now. But at least I can say that I stay with my Sox no matter what, there are certain people,fans from other teams that visit this blog whom I’ve seen abandon their teams when they are down (VINCE<VIK, I’m not talking about y’all). I’m a diehard, never say die BOSTON REDSOX FAN!!! GO SOX!!

Ellen, it should come as no surprise to you that I of course have no personal animosity toward you or any other Red Sox fan. On the other hand, nor will the Sox find any sympathy for their injuries in this corner, as the Yanks had just as many, and still managed to stay in the race. After all the arrogane displayed by Sox fans over the past two years, I suspect it’s easy to understand how a Yankee fan could relish in the Sox’ free-fall. 2004 was an anamoly in every sense of the word, on both sides, and I’m very proud that the Yanks have overhauled their decision making and restored this “rivalry” (26-6, remember?), to its rightful balance.

btw, for the Sox’ sake, something must be done about Manny. I feel he could have played on their west coast trip, and looked positively uninterested in fielding that ball in the 12th.

This Sox Fan has never showed a bit of arrogance, or “better than thou” attitude, so, since I’m the only one here tonight, why put it on me?

Manny just wants to get traded thats all. He isn’t a real “red sock” anyway. Fans get attached to teams much more than players. He should go back to the Indians

Great decision putting Kapler in, Sorry Arielle, but I think it’s time they made a decision about him. He hasn’t done really anythong productive all season. I like him for all the things he does with his Family’s foundation, but he hasn’t contributed to the Sox this year the way he was expected to do.

Ellen, if that’s the case, I appreciate your temperateness, even though I believe you’re the exception.

If you are going to trade Manny, I hope Theo doesn’t trade him to Cleveland. Or any other AL team. He will just kill both the yankees AND the redsox.

Cleveland is going to be best team in AL central next year even without Manny.

Not by himself he won’t. And he’s not getting any younger. Trading him will however really hurt Ortiz

I dont know what you guys think but if I have to choose either Manny OR Ortiz but not both, I’ll take Manny. Ortiz is not even close to what he is without Manny. Put anybody else behind him (except may be Hafner, Vlad or ARod) he wont get anything to hit.

hin being Ortiz

true. Lose Manny, and you lose Ortiz’s production too. But there are plenty of possible replacements. Besides Hafner, Vlad, or ARod, there’s also Andruw Jones, Derrek Lee, Albert Pujols, Ryan Howard, Tejada, Vernon Wells, Konerko, Thome, Dye, Morneau, Mauer, Wright, Beltran, etc….

Manny is replaceable… just not easily so.

I was only thinking abt guys in AL for some reason. Wells, Konerko, Dye, Morneau, Mauer and Thome are not even in the same zip code as Manny because of Manny’s consistency for as long as he has been playing. Tejada is close but doesn’t have the power of Manny.

Manny is replaceable by Derek Lee, Pujols or Howard. But you cant get them. Their teams wont let them go.

infact, there is nobody that is not replaceable. The only player CLOSE to irreplaceable is Mariano Rivera.

A Rivera in his prime, sure

By “in his prime” I assume you mean last year, when he posted his career-best ERA (1.38) and WHIP (0.868), second-best opponent’s BA (.177, posted .176 in ’99) and third-best K/9 (9.19, against 10.87 in ’96 and 9.26 in ’01)?

Also, though I hate Manny with a passion (I think “Manny being Manny” is a diplomatic way of saying “Manny doesn’t know how to respect the game”), even I have to admit that he is one of the best (if not THE best) pure hitters in the game.

Andruw Jones? A career .265 hitter is not a replacement for Manny.

Of players that are potentially available, the two that come to mind are Carlos Lee and Alfonso Soriano. Vernon Wells is a distant third, and he’ll probably be on the market next July, but you’re not moving Manny and then waiting half a season to find Papi some protection.

But here’s the rub: Lee and Soriano are .280 / 30-35 HR guys. Manny is a .315 / 40-45 HR guy. That’s the kind of drop-off you’re looking at when you “replace” Manny. I mean, I’m a big fan of OPS, sure. But you don’t have to be to understand what a potential loss of *one hundred and fifty* points in OPS would mean. Manny’s a career 1.000+ OPS. Sori and Lee hover around .850 OPS.

People who put up Manny’s kind of numbers simply don’t pop up that often.

Good morning everyone. Kind of heartbreaking, the last two days, huh? I still can’t wait for Tuesday – with all the changes, I’m not sure who we’re starting against Daniel Cabrera. My brother and I are making a big poster, and we can literally use the dugout as a cup holder, on the Red Sox side, so look for us if you can watch the game.🙂 When we make the poster, I’ll let you know what it says.😀

And by the way, jss, that IS the case because I have never once shown a bit of arrogance in here. There may be many people who gain confidence with a lead or a good winning streak, but arrogance? No. Don’t get me wrong, there are certainly people who have shown arrogance, but you cannot assume the majority.

And I have to disagree, Vik, I don’t think Mo Rivera is irreplaceable. He may be good, but he’s lost a LOT of that sting. Most people just aren’t scared of him anymore.

Anyway, that’s my two cents for the morning – time for church.🙂

Re-reading what I wrote about Rivera, I meant to say “I don’t think Mo Rivera is close to irreplaceable…” Just to clarify.🙂

Jen, You have me green with envy, You get to see our Sox, and the fact that we’re not going to the big one this year, wouldn’t dampen my spirits either. Don’t forget to yell at Trot (and Millar, you just gotta love him!!) for me. Have a GREAT time!

Who would you replace him with Jen? I agree he’s lost some. But he is still the best.

ok, mariano rivera has never had an era that wasn’t under 3 as a reliever, he has closed out three world series and was a major aspect of a 4th. He has closed out countless alcs and alds’s with just what? 4 blown saves in 40+ attempts in the worlds biggest stage?

This will be his 4th consecutive year with an era UNDER 2, so whoever syas he is not feared and is losing his edge is crazy…he is putting up the best numbers of his career of late and htis year his era is 1.90 and he is 33/36 this season. Oh and yeah he has 412 saves! He has and has continued to dominate the entire league for a decade now. His career era is 2.30 and that is thanks mainly in part to his era of 5.19 as a starter in 67 innings his rookie year, without that his career era borders 2.

Try and tell me that is not the most dominating closer stats of all time….you can’t compare him to a starter because he has revolutionized an entire position by himself, much like ortiz could if he continues to put up his numbers for another 5 or 6 years.

He is irreplaceable, the testamant to this? Nobody has ever been in his situation…sure trevor hoffman has 400 saves but he doesn’t have 4 rings, or a career playoff era under 2. He was in the ws once and he blew it to scott brosius and the yankees. Oh and btw rivera also has a world series mvp and has finished in the top 3 of cy young candidates multiple times AS A CLOSER.

Papelbon was going to put together ONE solid season and did not even do that too nicely…he had what, 6 or 7 blown saves and didn’t stay healthy? I would have said eric gagne could have deemed rivera not irreplaceable but he hasn’t pitched now in over two years…his record of dominance stretched across like 3 or 4 seasons, not 10….give credit where credit is due, mariano rivera is irreplaceable

There are two ways to look at the “replaceable” issue. One is by the numbers, and Mariano Rivera had his best year in 2005.

The other is by “sting,” which is more accurately named “perception.” In that, the question is not, “is he scary?” You don’t have to be scared of him to bat .221 against him (in 2006). Doesn’t matter.

The question is (and forgive me for quoting one of the most unquotable players in baseball, but A Rod said it best), “If my daughter’s life was on the line, I’d want Mo in there. Wouldn’t you?”

When you talk of the perception of a player, that’s (in a somewhat less dramatic sense) the yardstick you want to use.

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