Many, Manny trade rumors

We’ve all played this game for how many years now? Every winter, Manny is getting traded. Every spring, he reports to Fort Myers with a new hairstyle and the same goofy look on his face.

Guess what — the game is over. I really think Manny is getting traded this time around. All signs are pointing toward it.

All the big bats (Soriano, Lee, Sheffield) have been signed or traded for big dollars, and there is Manny, a big bat — a monster bat — and readily available.

Buster Olney of ESPN.com — a writer and blogger who has taken his game to another level over the last couple of years — cites MLB sources who think Manny could be gone by Saturday. But alas, these things always drag out a little longer than we expect.

I’m thinking that all the proposals get done this week, and the final package is produced during the Winter Meetings next week in Orlando. How fitting that Goofy Manny could get traded right in the heart of Disney World.

Isn’t it amazing how much different public reaction is on this matter now than a year ago at this time? Remember that Keep Manny website that thousands of people posted on last winter? Where are those people now?

Manny’s time has finally run its course in Boston it seems. He played his butt off for the first four months of last season but basically shut it down once his team began to fall out of the race. I know for a fact that he lost some respect in the clubhouse during that time. Even a former teammate and close friend such as Kevin Millar openly mocked Manny to his face in late September, making fun of his knee injury. I’m thinking Millar might have been a little more sensitive if Manny had a real serious injury, but that’s just a theory.

Even Big Papi David Ortiz no longer rushes to Manny’s defense. I saw a great TV interview with Dan Roche the other night when he told Ortiz he had a tough question for him. Ortiz said, "Bring it on."

Roche said, and I paraphrase, "Are the Red Sox better off with or without Manny?"

That was all it took for Papi to retract the "Bring it on."

With a pained look on his face, Ortiz said, "Can you ask me another tough question?" Papi wanted no part of answering this question. Then Ortiz said that fans should never forget what Manny has done for the Red Sox. In other words, David was saying that Manny’s legacy in Boston should be secure, but he certainly didn’t beg for the Red Sox to keep Manny as he’s done in years past.

Quite frankly, this is a baseball marriage that seems to be coming to an end. Manny won a World Series in Boston. He drove in countless big runs. He hit jaw-dropping home runs. But there was always the unpredictability and the change in moods and the chance that Manny just might hit the off button for a few days in the middle of a pennant race.

So now the Red Sox will stack up the offers against each other. In this market, Manny’s salary no longer looks daunting. So they get maybe a shutdown reliever and some prospects and either keep that package or ship it off somewhere else for, say, Andruw Jones?

The next few days are going to be high drama as the Manny being Manny act might finally be writing its final few chapters in Boston.

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125 Comments

just liek vince said on jeff’s blog. losing manny will hurt next year, but what we get in return will be rewarding.

It’s not going to hurt as much as you think if they turn around and trade the prospects they get for manny to the braves for andruw jones.

Lets take the Dodgers potential deal for a second…some package of the following: Billingsley, Laroche, Looney, Broxton.

They could keep some and flip some to fill the needs they would then have in the OF (assuming Pena isn’t a viable everyday option), SS (unless they sign Lugo), and CL (assuming Broxton wouldn’t be that option).

It would leave them with Looney or Laroche as a premier prospect corner infielder to sit across the diamond from Youkilis. And if you net someone like Billingsley…thats only upside.

I would guess that you would only get 2 or 3 of those prospects depending on the money that goes with Manny.

With the Padres, if there were any chance of a Peavy/Linebrook combination, I would be all over it. Although I doubt that is a possibility.

I do think that this is the prime time to get the most out of trading Manny. I do not however relish the thought of a lineup without him protecting David Ortiz.

Tim

http://www.redsoxtimes.com

I think the only trade i’d even “think” about probably wouldn’t happen.

Angels get Manny for Santana, Weaver and Cabrera, or some other piece.

Two top young pitchers. That’s the only feasible thing.

The Sox can afford Manny and are now in his “cheapest” years under contract.

There is no way to replace his offense production from the right side of the plate if they get anyone NOT named Pujols.

That’s not going to just hurt this year, it’s going to hurt this year, next year, and even potential option years.

As a Sox fan, i’m completely acustomed to how Manny is. I’m also completely acustomed to the calibur player he is and what he can offer this team.

Enough trade talk. Keep him, protect Ortiz, and go for more Playoff Berths this year, next, and beyond…

I have huge doubts about a lot of these trade rumours, mostly because they all involve NL teams. Doesn’t Manny really want to stay in the AL? *And of course with his 10-5 rights he can “make” that happen*
But if Manny does get traded, who will “protect” David Ortiz in the lineup?? Wily Mo is too swing-happy for that…he needs to learn some major patience at the plate first. I know J.D. Drew has pretty good numbers, but will the pitchers be compelled to pitch to both him and Ortiz??

Questions, questions, questions.

With Manny gone, Ortiz is going to be walked 200 times, and jd drew is no where near the hitter that Manny is, imagine an outfield of Willy Mo, Crisp and Drew, i don’t think so, without Manny this next year’s lineup is going to *****

I would prefer to keep Manny but Peavey and Linebrink would be an enticing deal…if they happen to sign Drew and Lugo. Sure, they can walk Ortiz but Drew will still have the ability to hurt opposing pitchers.

I hate to admit it, as a Manny fan, that his time with the Sox has probably got to come to an end. You just can’t have him tanking it like that. Furthermore, his value will probably never be higher- especially in this insane market that is starved for reliable power bats.

As someone else posted above, though, there is simply NO way that you’re going to replace his production with one or even two guys. In a very best case scenario, a healthy Coco, a healthy Drew, and a blossoming Wily Mo might together replace what Manny, Trot, and Coco could do.

Add in Julio Lugo, and maybe a decent stick to play at 1B occasionally, and that could approximate a solid offensive lineup.

I’ll just hate to see him bashing the snot out of the ball for someone else, though.

Final question- will he wear a Red Sox cap when he enters the Hall of Fame?

http://outskirtsofredsoxnation.blogspot.com

good question about whether manny would want to play in the NL. i called his agent this morning hoping to get that answer, but his agent, who is notoriously poor at returning phone calls, or taking phone calls, hasn’t gotten back to me.

Here’s a question for you Ian, or anyone else who has the answer. It’s not concearning Manny, but mainly Matzusaka and the posting fee.

Now I’m from the UK and over here we would call the posting fee a transfer fee in football, when two clubs agree a price for a certain player, for him to move. Now in football this is how players move from club to club.

Now my question is, does this ever happen in baseball, or could it happen? Or are there some rules against it?

I’m just thinking because we posted $50m+ for Matzusaka, could we not do it for other players in the league. For example would the Twins be able to reject $50 + or whatever for Santana.

Sorry should mention I was refering to Soccer. We call it football over here.

why does everyone seem to think Manny’s going to be traded? The Sox want to ADD players this season, not trade away their best hitter!!

seriously, manny accounts for 10 to 15 of papi’s homeruns… without manny’s protection papi’s gonna get walked like ****! say goodbye to all those dramatic 9th inning walkoffs!!

we’re going to sign drew and lugo, giving us 2 all-star caliber players around their prime. if we manage to get matsuzaka (which we’d better…) our rotation will be among the league’s elite. if we somehow manage to rob houston of lidge by trading hansen and maybe someone like murphy, our bullpen will be pretty much set!

but if we trade away manny we immediately lose 10 wins to our total. the returns can’t add up to 10 games above average since no one can really replace manny’s power (who’s available via trade anyway).

You trade Manny, you might as well trade Papi with him. They’re a package, individually good but together form the greatest duo since… i dunno, who was the babe with?

but look, if we’re gonna trade Manny we’d better get alot of cheap and young talent in return… from Anaheim I would expect at least a Howie Kendrick or Brandon Wood along with Ervin Santana. Scot Shields would also be desirable…

If the Mets are still interested (and why wouldn’t they? lol), I would want Lastings Milledge among others, but the Mets don’t really have good young pitching to spare… they kinda lost Pedro haha

so… yeah, all in all, I really don’t want to see Manny go. As Vince said, it’s a Yankee fantasy for Theo to trade Manny and I don’t think Theo’s job is to fulfill the deepest desires of New Yorkers!

Ian, I don’t like trading for Jones unless we can get a long-term extention which Boras won’t let him do for cheap… he’s still gonna cost the Sox alot of $$. I might prefer keeping some prospects, especially if it’s Milledge, Wood, etc.

if we trade manny to LA and get broxton loney and billingsley that would allow:
1.trading hansen and a started to houston for lidge.

2.move youk to 3rd and trade lowell to the padres for linebrink.

3.move wake to the bullpenn

it will be impossible to replace manny’s production with 1 or 2 guys but trading him will save money and get us young stars in return. if it is gonna happen, it has to happen this offseason.

Ian, Manny’s agent is mindless? Go figure.

Yankees won the rights to Igawa, I know you guys like keeping up on stuff like that.

In baseball there are free agents and there are players under contract. Players on the contract can not just be given away for money unless the front office wants to and they have a lack of a no trade clause. Rarely do you see a player traded for just cash though, but it is possible.

You had to post for matsuzaka because those are the rules for players coming from japan. For american players in MLB, there is no posting bid, just simply free agents signing elsewhere, resigning with their team or non free agents being traded.

I will be in the minority here, but I say good-bye and good riddance. Manny has drove me crazy over the last few years with his “manny being manny” antics. I have always been amazed how Rice, Williams and Yaz could get booed at fenway but every day you knew they were going to give their all. The only thing that ever kept them out of the line up was if something was broken.

I think that manny getting traded would lead to the classic addition by subtraction.

I dont want manny to be traded but if we are going to I say do it now Versus paying him(alot of his contrac)and then doing it in the future.

*contract

Kaylee…weren’t you posting on the yankees blog as a yankee fan about a month ago???

yes I was.

lol…like the red sox now?

Please god, don’t ever let Lastings Milledge back into Fenway as a member of the Red Sox. True, I haven’t seen as much of him as say, a Mets fan would, but please…does no one else remember his atrocious defensive “plays” in left field during Interleague Play this year??? I was laughing my head off at this guy trying to field routine ground balls out there. True, there is the Green Monster and its various caroms to deal with, but please…Lastings was a joke out there, completely laughable.

Bottom line: I don’t want to see Manny go at all, under any circumstances.

I could go either way on the Manny trade. I would be OK with it if we got something pretty decent in return, but I do fear that Ortiz will be walked 200 times without him.

On the flip side, we would save both Manny’s salary and the salary we have to pay his Mannysitter. Remember the Want Ad I posted over the summer:

Help Wanted – Mannysitter

Responsibilities include:

- Remind Manny daily that he doesn’t have to wait in the batters box to see how the play turns out before he starts running. He’s allowed, and actually encouraged, to run hard right away.

- Yell to baserunners rounding third whether or not they should slide at home. If Manny is in your way and you can’t see the play, move three seats over so you can see around his hair before yelling your call.

- Recite the Golden Commandments daily during breakfast:

* Thou shalt never make the first or third out of an inning with a baserunning blunder at third.

* Though shall obey God and The Third Base Coach… he’s not just there to slap your hand after a home run.

Pay is $100K per year plus a commission based on the amount of money or pain you save the Redsox by successful Mannysitting. Bonuses for individual awards and team achievements.

Please send resume and credentials to “Epstein and Rayman” at Rayman94@yahoo.com

Thanks yankeevmm for the reply.

So the question is if it is possible to make a bid on players by offering the teams cash, why isn’t it a common accourance? Surely it would be a good way of filling some needs, and it wouldn’t count against the payrol.

For example small market teams would be very reluctant to reject any bids that are just too tempting for them. Would the Marlins reject a $30m+ bid for Willis or Cabrera, or maybe we could get Hanley back from them for that much.

Just a thought I’ve been having. I suppose because I’m used to it happening over here in the UK, I’ve been wondering why it doesn’t happen with you guys.

I guess the answer to that would be that most teams want to see some sort of return on the field. Most small market teams are small market because the owners prefer them that way. They want to collect luxery tax, or not spend too much on giving their team a chance to be successful. There are very few low level millionares that own professional baseball teams whom cannot afford to give their team a significant payroll with all of the revenue the team creates.

It does not send a positive image to the fans if you take money for quality players, unless they go out and buy a superstar, which smaller market teams probably would not do because then they would have to pay them a contract. Trades are much less controversial and free agency is much less risky.

If I recall correctly (especially around the 88-90 seasons) Major League Baseball has discouraged and even prevented trades of $$ for players.

It’s to prevent teams from selling players and getting nothing tangible in return.

If it was allowed, we’d see the Yankees, Sox, Mets, etc be trying to buy players all the time.

Well thats what I was thinking. If the Red Sox FO can justify spending $50m on Matzusaka, then surely they or the Yankees could do the same and bid an extra $10m for Santana or someone.

But if they are discoureged from doing so, then I can see why they don’t.

There is no reason to trade Manny. Yes, the media has turned on him, but they never liked him to begin with (see Ian). Manny’s knee trouble began way back before the all star break, the team knew about it. Actually, if i remember correctly, he had knee trouble in spring training. Just because the media portrays him as a quitter, you dont have to believe them…Anyway, you don’t have to like him, just respect the talent and the numbers. Nobody ever really says this, but Manny is a better hitter than Ortiz. The only reason Ortiz is able to do what he does, Manny. Nobody in baseball has that kind of protection. Sure pitchers hate to face Papi, but they go after him because they have a better chance with him than Manny. Manny can hit any of the top pitchers, Ortiz? Don’t think so. You can’t say that Ortiz is a lock for the hall of fame can you? Jamie had it right saying that trading Manny is a Yankee fantasy, Cashman and minions would be ecstatic if we traded him. We basically would be handing the Yankees the division. Another part of that, the Yankees would love to have Manny, once the Sox let him go, he will end up with the Yankees sooner or later. Every Yankee fan I’ve ever talked with has a tremendous amount of respect for the guy. Wouldnt it be fun to watch Manny (who doesnt hide the fact he would like to be a yankee)beating up all our pitchers, and taking them back to the series? Wake up people!!! Manny is one of the greatest hitters of our time! Every single year you know what he will give you. Everyone is riding the trade Manny train right now, but if it goes down, it will be the greatest Red Sox blunder of all. Did everyone forget? The main reason for the Red Sox rise to perennial playoff contender… GM Dan Duquette way back in 2000, $160 mil, eight years for a superstar…Putting a hapless and hopeless Red Sox team back on the baseball map, PRICELESS!!!

i never said i didn’t like manny. i absolutely do like manny and realize he’s the best pure hitter i’ve seen in my lifetime. i don’t enjoy when he takes mental health breaks in the middle of a season when the other competitors on the team are doing everything they can to play through injuries that are both major and minor in nature.

Manny fits nowhere on the Yankees except DH. If we trade Giambi, than I might accept manny and slowly build the former ’04 sox team into winning us a world series for ultimate revenge. It’s cool too because those players weren’t even homegrown redsox players to begin with so nobody can take credit for us stealing their talent. Win-win haha.

You hand us the division anyway, what’s the difference?

Ortiz is not a hall of fame lock not for the reason he is not manny ramirez, more because he plays no position but more importantly has been starting for three years as opposed to what, 11?

If Ortiz has four or five more years like the four he has just had, i believe that will put him in the Hall of Fame.

I just heard a rumor on ESPN from Steve Phillips that the Dodgers have upped their offer (he didn’t mention the players involved) in a deal with Manny, and that the Sox may be interested in Barry Bonds as a replacement. I sincerely the latter is not true. Though I like Manny, I wouldn’t mind if he was traded in a deal that brought a package like James Loney, Matt Kemp and/or Chad Billingsley, and then the Sox could sign someone like Aubrey Huff to not replace, but at least offset some of Manny’s offense. The Sox have a deep enough lineup – especially if they have Lugo and Crisp atop the order, and Drew and Pena – to thrive without Manny if the players we get in return have a high ceiling. Everyone on this blog, and my BoSox Banter blog, know that I have stuck by Theo Epstein, and in most cases support his decisions to sign and acquire younger players with high ceiling versus signing aging veterans. Obviously, Bonds is an aging veteran, and someone who is virtually impossible to root for because of his attitude and his transgressions against baseball. I will be angry if the Sox sign Bonds. Hopefully, this doesn’t happen.

Jeff

http://www.bosoxbanter.mlblogs.com

An aging lefty in a righty hitting doubles park? Bonds would not be an upgrade over manny in left and his bat, sadly would be a downgrade, that would be an awful move that I hope will happen. The clubhouse chemistry also suffers as odd as that sounds.

Ybrenner, To clear this up once and for all, I was paraphrasing what was written previously by someone else. I absolutly do not think Arod is going to be the greatest player of all time. I believe that he as begun his slide into oblivion. He’s week mentally, he got fear in his eyes in pressure situations. Manny never has fear in his eyes. I have been very thankful that trade fell through..we would not have won with AROD, just like the yankees will never win with him.
Another thing, Theo is an overrated media darling. He had two good really good moves, Ortiz and Mueller..thats basically it. Lately it seems as though he has been working for the other teams. Johnny D (your welcome yankees, just take him), Hanley Ramirez (this guy is going to be better than AROD), Anibal Sanchez, Freddy Sanchez (hard to see that one coming) and Clay Meredith and Bard for Mirabelli.******! We should have been paid to take “big Belli”, not a single team in mlb likes him except us, he’s terrible. The Sox wouldn’t have the infield disarray if Theo had listened to his own advice about keeping young talent. Theo’s problem is that he is arrogant enough to believe that he orchestrated the Sox improvement. You’ve got to realize that Dan Duquette built that championship team, Theo just added a few pieces. Thanks Theo for busting that team up, 95% of your moves since have been horrible, and we keep sliding down the standings. Keep up the good work…Trading Manny and adding Drew is really going to help things (sarcasm).

Ian, do you honestly believe the Sox will be a better team with Manny? Yes, Manny is the best pure hitter to come along in a long time.

Your right Ian. Lets hope Ortiz can hold up for that amount of time. If defintely would have a brighter future playing the next 2-4 years with Manny. They are already one of the best combos in history. The rest of AL and even the NL is hoping we’ll be stupid enought to break it up.

I Believe that this is the year that Manny would have the most to gain by coming into spring training late and demanding an extension or demand his option be picked up and then want to negotiate an extension.His age,Numbers and his mis-givings on wanting to be with the RedSox over the past 3 seasons all makes me pause and makes me re-think this trade possibility.
The only answer I can come up with is that it is a very good idea to trade Manny. He is a 10-5 guy so you can bet your bottom dollar that his approval to any team will hinge on his desire to sign one more big contract that will take him to retirement.

Trade Manny? absolutely, Everyones arguement for keeping Manny is absolutely right on the money but it all assumes that Manny will come to work everyday and perform, Keeping Manny assumes that he will not put up a kicking and screaming hissy fit about his contract or that he will show up for 151 games and be the “HOF Manny” that we all expect him to be.

Trading Manny makes perfect sense and if a back door trade brings A.Jones here then it will be a no brainer.

Send him packing now while the premium is high and pray he doesn’t mess it up before the ink dries.

Hanley Ramirez will not be Alex Rodriguez, take a look at the stats again and don’t let the media blind you. When Gary Sheffield became a Yankee, no sox fans, no yankee fans and no members of the media said “oh man, the Yankees will never win with HIM on the team” and yet, he has done less in the playoffs than A rod has. Bashing A rod is the fluffed up hype, not A rod’s capabilities. One player can not single handedly prevent a team from winning, unless his last name ends in “Buckner” and even him blowing it was blown out of proportion when you look at his series numbers. persoanlly, like manny and the sox, I think the Yankees would be better off trading A rod assuming the price is right, but that does not mean they cannot win with him.

Just to clarfify one thing with Bucknor – he did not single handedly cost Boston the game. Chinese whispers seemed to have made it so that Boston would have won that game if not for his play. What would have happened is it would have gone to the next inning as a tie game.

Personally I don’t want to see Manny traded. I’m not that hot on what the Dodgers have to offer. The ultimate would be if Manny decided to veto an agreed upon trade. It would just be Manny being Manny.

Mattinvt – I think that’s being harsh on Theo. If not for the huge trade with Nomar, I don’t think the Sox would have won in 04.

Do we really want an asterisk next to any thing REDSOX related??? If Bonds comes here, even if that asterisk is not in print it will be in the minds of baseball fans everywhere!

I think that we can probrably put up with the Manny-Antics of Manny being Manny except when he’s being “bad Manny”, for another year. He and Papi are the 1-2 punch that every baseball team, not just American League, fears the most. Can you think of a 3-4 combo that anyone in recent years has feared more???

Brendan; I don’t know if you had a typo or what but It’s “Bill BucknEr”. And for the record, he didn’t lose the series for the Sox, we still had a game to go and they couldn’t pull it off. Schnitt happens, bad timing,(really bad) but it does.

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article_perspectives.jsp?ymd=20061129&content_id=1747800&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp

Interesting article on the Japanese situation. I pretty much agree with everything stated.

In regards to Simon…

“Well thats what I was thinking. If the Red Sox FO can justify spending $50m on Matzusaka, then surely they or the Yankees could do the same and bid an extra $10m for Santana or someone.

But if they are discoureged from doing so, then I can see why they don’t.”

The reason they are “discouraged” is that MLB can deny any “Player Buying” so most teams don’t even attempt it any more.

I think Oakland was the guilty party back in 1990 which caused the problems.

I agree with the article as well, Vince. I think the Sox will undoubtedly sign Matsuzaka, and now that they have just signed Hideki Okajima, the left-handed reliever, they are building their presence in Japan. It will also make the transition for D-Mat easier since one of his countrymen will be withthe Sox.

Also, I read where the Steve Phillips rumor of the Sox signing Bonds is very unlikely to be true. I hope that is the case. It does not make since to replace Manny with Bonds. Manny is a much better player, and he is a cakewalk compared to the baggage that Bonds carries. If Manny is traded, I would rather see Crisp moved to left, or the Sox sign someone like Aubrey Huff (maybe if I say it enough, it will happen!). I would also like to see the Sox keep Wily Mo Pena if Manny is traded, but it appears that Wily Mo might be traded for a closer at the winter meetings. We shall soon see.

I sincerely hope that the Barry Bonds rumor isn’t true. I don’t care what his uniform may say, I will never route for him.

Awhile back someone was asking what nickname should be tagged to Matsuzaka. If we do sign him and he is successful, he should be tagged as “HAZ-MAT”.

The Bonds rumor was silly and completely untrue and unsubstantiated and not worth any of our time.

hey the Sox signed Okajima, a Japanese reliever who had a 2.14 ERA last season for the championship team

pretty good!

so far we have Tavarez, Okijima, Timlin and… o right, no one else! lol Theo still has work to do

Trading Manny now would be very dumb. The fact that his contract is now attracting interest from other teams just shows that we should keep him. The (assumed) signing of JD Drew is all the more reason for keeping Manny. Drew is the NEEDED 5th man in the order that we didn’t have last year. Nixon failed, Veritek failed and by the time they put Lowell there, he started tapering off. Manny is on his way to the Hall of Fame, I hope it’s as a RED SOX player.

the only thing about signing aubrey huff (assuming drew is signed) is that even though drew and huff are good hitters, both are leftys, means neither will protect ortiz well since 1 lefty pitcher would have not too much trouble striking out all 3. but if in the manny trade (assuming he goes to LA) and we get jonathan broxton in return, we could trade coco and hansen to houston for lidge and wily mo can play left.

I don’t ever recall Manny bunking out when it was really important. Recall the yankee series where we got our butts kicked, he was close to .450 for the series.

It’s too easy to say Manny doesn’t try or is susceptible to manny moments. I’ve never seen manny moments come when the game was on the line or his presence really mattered. The Sox had already thrown in the towel whe he sat down at the end of last season.

The only other major leaguer who comes close to manny in coolness under pressure is Derek Jeter.

He is an oddball. but baseball is a haven for oddballs, it’s one place where oddballs often flourish.

I wouldn’t give up on him unless there is something real good coming in return (e.g. Tejadad)

OK guys, here’s the bottom line:

MANNY PERFORMS.

In 2004, he was the World Series MVP. Just as Beckett was critical in the Marlins’ championship, so too was Manny to the Sox. The guy performs so well under pressure and in clutch situations. If he weren’t paired with the greatest clutch hitter possibly in baseball history, people would see just how clutch he is!

Yeah, so what if he gave up at the end of last season? He was HURT and it makes absolutely no sense to play hurt if your team has NIL chance of winning! If he’d played hurt and gotten injured, do you think anyone would be happy?

He’s unpredictable. So is baseball. Everyone should just f-ing deal with it and appreciate him as the best hitter on our team and possibly our entire generation.

I do think that Manny will be traded, and that Andruw Jones will be with the Sox in 2007, but I see your point, Jamie. Ortiz-Manny-Drew would make a tremendous 3-4-5 punch. Put Lugo and Crisp atop the order, and add Youkilis, Lowell and Varitek. Pedroia would hit ninth, but he shows signs of being a .300 hitter.

I think the Sox lineup will be deep even without Manny, especially if they acquire Jones and put Wily Mo Pena in left, but with Manny, you know that the headaches will be accompanied by a .300 average 35-40 dingers and 100-plus RBI – and clutch hits.

Jeff

http://www.bosoxbanter.mlblogs.com

Why would we want to trade for Lidge? He was terrible last year, and given his meltdown seemed in some way associated with the 04 post season, I’m not sure about how he’d handle the pressure. I think we need to take a chance on Gagne

Lidge had 150 Ks in 80 innings in 2004 and was the best closer in baseball in 05.

everyone has off years… lidge is an excellent pitcher and i’d be willing to surrender a fair share of prospects to acquire him.

I would rather sign Gagne than give up players for Lidge. If we deal Manny, we will likely use some of those players in return – and perhaps a current prospect – to get Andruw Jones. I don’t like trading top-tier prospects, but if we do, I would rather get someone like Jones than Lidge.

andruw jones becomes a free agent after next year… i doubt boras will let him sign a cheap extension.

andruw jones is a significant downgrade from manny. his BA isn’t nearly as good and his patience isn’t so great (good, but not great lol)

Gagne would be a risky signing but can end up being great. My worry would be that he gets injured and we get caught with our pants down.

And also, we’d get awesome prospects in return for manny, so i’d kinda wanna keep them… they can become a part of the future – cheap too.

Jones isn’t as good as Manny, that’s true, but he is a good defensive player and a good bat, and he has played in big games. I wouldn’t call him a significant downgrade because he produces and he does not cause headaches. He is also younger. The idea is not to replace Manny – that is not possible since he is so good – but to offset a big portion of his numbers, which Jones can do. The Sox will have a deep lineup with or without Manny. No need to panic. We have to let Manny go sometime soon. Why not do it when we can get something good in return?

Jeff

http://www.bosoxbanter.mlblogs.com

ok i see ur point jeff but the thing is, we might only get jones for 1 year… his contract ends after 2007!

that’s why if we DO trade manny i wanna keep the prospects we get and hopefully just sign jones next offseason.

The Sox would not take Jones for just a year. They would likely sign him to an extension before the season started. If we have Jones in center, then I guess Ellsbury would play left in 2008. I can’t imagine trading Ellsbury since he is one of the Sox brightest outfield prospects since Trot Nixon.

Boras is Jones’s agent. he’s gonna make him explore the free agency market… unless we give him alot of $$…

Your point about signing Jones after next season is valid. I wouldn’t mind an outfield of Drew in center, Crisp in left and Pena and another bat in right for one season, especially if the deal netted someone like James Loney (who could play first and Youkilis can move to third). I heard where the Sox are also interested in Adrian Gonzalez. I doubt if the Padres would deal him though since he is a young, left-handed power hitting first baseman.

Well, I’m hitting the sack. It appears that the only bloggers right now are Jamie and I – and we are keeping the comments active on Ian’s blog and my blog! Next week at this time, we will know much more about the Sox roster for 2007. I’m looking forward to the winter meetings! Oh, one more thing. Konnichiwa, Okajima san!

Jeff

http://www.bosoxbanter.mlblogs.com

Some of you just don’t get the situation with Manny at all. The Red Sox do not want to push Manny out the door. For the last time, Manny DOES NOT DOES NOT DOES NOT DOES NOT WANT TO PLAY IN BOSTON ANYMORE. He has made that abundantly clear to the Red Sox front office. He doesn’t want to be under the employ of the Boston Red Sox and we all know he could make life miserable if he doesn’t get his wish. So people need to stop with the notion that the Red Sox are pushing Manny out. manny has 10-5 rights. If he didn’t want to leave, he’d make that known. Obviously that isn’t the case.

I see your point, Ian, but Manny has been wishy washy throughout his tenure here. Since we are not in the clubhouse, we don’t know what to believe. Even many media members don’t seem to know what to believe. One minute saying he wants to be traded and then invoking his 10-5 rights once a deal is found just seems like a Manny thing to do!

If Manny does truly want out of Boston, I agree that he should be traded, especially for the packages that are being mentioned with the Dodgers and the Padres.

Ian – I know the Red Sox are not pushing him out. But as for him wanting out, well I don’t care. He can want it all he wants, but if it does not happen he’s still going to hit 40 home runs and drive in well over 100. It may be a distraction, but let’s face it it’s never that big of a deal. We won a championship with it, and we have never lost out on a season because of it. I say keep him and if he doesn’t like it, tough luck.

you guys might have heard of terrell owens and what he did to the niners and the eagles. if manny doenst get his wish that might be us next year. now by all means if he excercises his 10-5 rights to stay he, he will be welcomed back but that doesnt seem likely and the potential that we will get in a trade is enough to lure theo into making a deal (its a chance to redeem himself after shipping off ramirez and sanchez)

If we can get Peavy and Linebrink from San Diego or James Loney and a couple other top prospects from the Dodgers, no doubt that Theo should make the deal.

Jeff http://www.bosoxbanter.mlblogs.com

Anybody have any updates on Jon Lester’s health? He would be a major upgrade to our rotation if he were healthy.

that would be the dumbest thing the sox can do is trade him for prospects unless the turn and get an andrew jones. The sox line up will look like this with manny

coco cf

lugo ss

papi dh

manny lf

drew rf

varitek C

lowell 3b

youk 1b

pedroia 2b

willy mo and nixon on the bench. if thats no the best line up in the game then this is with out him

lugo

pedroia

papi

jones

drew

varitek

pena

lowell

youk

Ian, Manny says the things he says every offseason! In his book, Seth Mnookin writes that Manny cursed at Francona and company to move him. He was practically ready to kill someone! What happend 7 months later?

He became the 2004 World Series MVP. So much for “making life miserable”…

Look, Manny is a baseball player. HE signed the contract and he agreed to play for the Redsox for 8 years in exchange for 160 million dollars. His wish is NOT our command…

If Theo doesn’t want to trade him, Manny will probably just shut up and play again. I realize he’s a human being with feelings, desires, and “needs” but he also happens to be one who’s getting paid TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS per year!!

Sorry, you guys can argue defense or starting pitching, but there is no way your lineup is better than the Yankees.

Let’s review (purely offense):

Catcher: Posada vs varitek: A wash, posada had a better season last year but tek was battling injuries.

First base: Tentatively neither team has one right now, but I guess it would have to be giambi vs youk. Umm, i’ll take 40 hrs and 100+ rbi over youk, patient or not.

2nd base: Cano Vs pedroia: Cano hit 340+ last year, drove in over 80 runs from deep in the lineup AND missed 6 weeks, cano by far.

Short stop: Jeter Vs: doesn’t matter, Jeter wins and I would dare anybody to disagree whether it is verse lugo, or whoever. Lugo is a great player but Jeter’s average is about 60 pts better, he hit more hrs, they both steal a lot of bases and jeter has that whole clutch factor going his way.

3rd base: A rod vs…right now lowell?: Say what you want about a rod in the clutch, there are figures to support both sides, I happen to think a rod is not very clutch but I’ll take 35 hrs 100+ rbi on a downyear and I think any of you would too.

Right Field: Abreu vs ____

Yet to be seen, if it is pena it is power vs average, much like giambi vs youk, except a much better offensive youkilis. I’ll call it a wash for now, though abreu is a 300 hitter with a 400+ OBP and a knack for driving in runs.

Center field: Damon vs Crisp: I think we can agree on damon.

Left field: Matsui vs Manny: matsui is good, manny is a lot more better.

DH: Ortiz vs eventually giambi, but I put him at first, either way Ortiz wins.

Yeah, your lineup is not better than the yankees, whether you sign andruw jones and lose manny or keep manny and don’t sign jones.

Bench: Melky, bernie, phillips (assumption), cairo, future backup catcher.

Bench: It won’t be trot, I’m not really sure as to who serves on your bench since you lost two infielders, a backup catcher etc, so we will leave this alone for now, but the yankee bench is still deep offensively and defensively.

Sorry, but that statement put me in the mood to do a little comparison.

In case anybody cares about my opinion, I think defensively you guys have the edge whether lowell, loretta, or whoever comes back or not, but that has suffered significantly so far this offseason and I don’t see it being a noticiable difference, especially if a rod returns to normal which I think he will. Starting pitching: You guys have more depth right now.

See, I’m fair.

In case anybody wonders what this is in response to it is this: “willy mo and nixon on the bench. if thats no the best line up in the game then this is with out him”

both lineups are potent no question, but our pitching is 10 times better then yours and we all know what pitching wins you…or did you forget already?

Vince, comparing a team’s roster player by player is baseless. Baseball is a team game. You should know this by the fact that the Yankees for the last few seasons have had what some talking heads have called the greatest lineup in decades, and it has resulted in zero titles, and not even a visit to the World Series.

As I have mentioned before, if the Sox trade Manny, they will not be replacing him with whoever is put in left field. They will just offset the loss of his bat. The Red Sox, regardless of whether they keep Crisp or bring in Andruw Jones, will have a solid lineup with or without Manny. The rotation has depth, and I’m certain that the bullpen will be solid as well. As long as Theo brings in a dependable closer and set-up man, the depth in the bullpen will be there with guys like Timlin, Tavarez, Okajima, Hansen and/or Delcarmen and perhaps someone like Kason Gabbard. The bench will be strong with Cora to backup the middle infield, Eric Hinske who can play both corner infield and outfield spots and Trot Nixon (if he is offered arbitration and accepts).

The Sox roster for 2007 is still a work in progress, but it is already shaping up to be deep in every area. So you can have fun comparing the Sox and Yankees player by player, but how good each team is will depend on how they play as a team.

Jeff

http://www.bosoxbanter.mlblogs.com

Yankeemm – if it comes to the comparison of the players, I agree with most of what you said. The one thing I would take issue over is Youk versus Giambi. It’s not really a question of taking one over the other because it’s not comparing like with like. Yes Giambi does hit 40 homeruns and hits 100 rbi’s, (at a much lower average than youk) but he is only able to do it because of guys like youk (or in the yankees case, jeter). Youk is a guy who can wear pitchers down with his patience, allowing mistakes for the next batters up. He also gets on base, which allows the home run hitters to drive them in. If those type of men do not get on base, then Giambi does not get his 100+ rbi’s

Posada and Varitek are both getting older and declining. Varitek was injured last season; he was better than posada the 2 years before that or at least equal…

giambi is the dh, not the 1b. if andy phillips is the 1b, then youk is definitely better.

Having mentioned, Giambi, Papi can wipe the floor with him anyday.

Pedroia has alot of potential. Don’t write him off quite yet. Cano is indeed a good player but a hitter’s BA tends to fluctuate alot. his .340 won’t necessarily translate into next year.

Arod beats Lowell. I can concede that lol. And Jeter, though I believe he’s overrated, it probably better than Lugo or anyone else we can get.

J.D. Drew has more patience than Abreu. He also has more power. He also bats higher. He therefore is better.

Crisp and Damon… well actually, Crisp was better than Damon in 2005 and Crisp got injured last season. Damon is also getting older and has a body that MIGHT fall apart any day now. Damon is better for now, but I wouldn’t bet my mortgage on it!

Manny is better than Matsui. (If we trade him, we’ll probably get someone to play OF in return and WMP could end up hitting 30 HR anyway)

Pitching:

For argument’s sake, let’s assume Wang is the best pitcher in the world. I think his 3.2K/9IP is pathetic and that he got very lucky with double plays last year, but whatever. Let’s say he’s better than Schilling.

Matsuzaka is going to be better than Mussina. Or at least Beckett will be. One of them, doens’t quite matter who.

Then whoever is NOT in the comparison above is better than Randy Johnson (ahem, i mean the shell of old Johnson).

Jonathan Papelbon is probably our ace and I personally believe he’ll trump any Yankee starter, INCLUDING WANG.

Tim Wakefield is simply the most reliable 5th starter i’ve ever known. He’ll be better than whatever AAA player the Yanks bring up to get booed by the fans

Bullpen: Aside from an aging Rivera, the Yanks have nothing at all. Then again, neither do the Sox but I assume help will come with the Manny trade (which I think might actually happen now… as much as I hate to admit)

So… yeah, the Yanks are definitely not dominant in 2007. If pitching is as important as people say it is, then the Sox can cream the Yanks next year provding that we assemble a bullpen (which Theo probably will)

Naturally, baseball’s totally unpredictable so we wont’ know until next year.

By the way Ian, you gotta like that Tony Romo call now, huh? But for an aberration against the Redskins, Cowboys have won every game since he came in. Their offence has a whole new lease of life.

Well you all (especially drein) did exactly what I expected. I respond to one person’s comments about how the sox have the best offense hands down in baseball and you all talk about how your team is better and then go into pitching and everything else.

Jamie saying the yankees have no bullpen passed an aging rivera that has now showed any signs of age yet is ridiculous. You can think as many pitchers as you want on the yankees are “lucky” but that doesn’t take away from what they did.

Villone bruney proctor and farnsworth all had dominant stretches for the majority of their time with the yankees. It happened to be villone dominant for 3/4ths of the season, bruney for all of his time, proctor for all but about two weeks and farnsworth for most of the 2nd half. Saying they have nothing is simply being in denile that they have something.

Have you guys officially signed drew yet? I’m hearing zito went to texas and glavine resigned with the mets.

You can hate wang all you want but he is not a k pitcher and is extremely efficent as a result, he won 19 games, get over it. Matsuzaka hasn’t pitched a day in the majors, beckett had a johnson comparable season and papelbon has never started in the majors for an extended period of time. Everything is based on assumption that things will translate and like I said, I think the sox have better starting pitching at this exact moment, but apparently you all forgot what can happen to a team’s pitching. Comparing the bullpen’s right now is downright wrong.

BTW if you look at the stats offensively, crisp has never been better than damon and he has a lot less experience, so where calling them on even playing field in the batters box comes from I don’t understand.

JD Drew has a career 286 average and one season with more than 100 walks. His career obp is .393 He has also had one season with 145 games or more and it was 145. Abreu’s career obp is .412, his career average is .302. He has had ONE season playing in less than 150 games and has eight straight seasons of 100 walks or more. Now tell me where drew has more patience, power or a higher average? Or is a better hitter again? Oh, was it power? Drew averages 20 hrs a year if you subtract his first season where he only appeared in 14 games. Abreu: If you average his hrs per season minus the first two where he appeared in a combined 64 games off and on, he averages over 20 hrs per season. Where drew has more power in the stats I also fail to see without assumption.

The two years before last season posada had 40 hrs 151 rbi. Varitek had 40 hrs 143 I believe. That is less as well, so how do you claim he had a better two years? His averages were higher, that much is true but with less production. And we both agreed in his injured campaign posada was better last year.

Let me get this straight, I shouldn’t trust cano who has hit near or way over 300 for two years, but we shouldn’t count out pedroia who has played less than a quarter of a season and batted 200? Cano is better, nothing changes that until pedroia translates and translates into a better player offensively, which is where the argument is.

Last we left off, giambi is the first baseman, until the yankees sign one, he is not the dh even though cashman has said he will be. Ortiz is better than either the yankees dh or 1st baseman.

Jeff, telling me comparing players offensively by their position is groundless is also groundless. We cannot compare the new players in the lineup but we can compare the player’s stats in their own lineups from last season. The yankees were better offensively last season, and individually have better stats at 7 of the 9 offensive positions.

Anybody else want to throw their opinion out there and bring up no statistics for support? Maybe we should talk about fenway park and how nice it is compared to yankee stadium when we argue who has the better lineup, that is relevant too, right?

Oh and btw if you really want to bring offensive intangibles into the mix, varitek is a lot more essential to the sox lineup than posada is to the yankees. He was in the five hole with less production for much of the two years before last and posada was in the 7 spot or deeper.

Hey guys I havent been on here for awhile (My PC melted) but i was listening to WEEI and some guy called in and said he heard from a very respectful source, that there was a three way deal in the talking. The three teams are Boston , LA Dodgers, and Atlanta Braves. I cant remember all he said but it went as 3 prospects from LA ( Loney, Broxton and some guy from Maine) goes to Atlanta, Manny Goes to the Dodgers, and Andruw Jones goes to Boston. And I think he said Willy Mo Pena and Craig Hansen goes to Atlanta. Has anyone else heard anything along these lines? It would be hard to beleive but it would be nice. As Jones could protect Ortiz maybe not as good as Manny but it would be a nice replacement for Manny.

I dunno, thaqt deal might be plausible but no way the Braves are gonna get Crisp, Hansen, and top prospects like Broxton and Loney, just for giving up Jones

I reckon Hansen and Crisp for Jones might be a pretty fair trade. Especially needed for the Sox if Manny ends up going

I don’t get why people are so hot on Lilly, he has not done anything decent in a while. I’m surprised the Blue Jays want to resign him after the way he went off at the coach last year.

apologize for the crude comments posted earlier by you know who. thank you all for not engaging the person.

redsox fanatic, long time no talk. Hansen and crisp for jones would be a major ripoff to the braves. Interesting to see how jones does in boston, he certainly will not fear yankee stadium on a regular basis (see 1996 world series at 19 yrs old) and he is a righty with the monster, could be a good deal for the sox, just think they would have to give up more than hansen and crisp

I believe this 3-way deal will happen. I don’t think the Braves are going to get as much as someone said. A Prospects – Ramirez – Jones trade sounds about right.

Vince, Crisp and Hansen is what the Braves asked for last September. That would be a good deal for both parties.Crisp is an exceptional player. He was just injured last season so couldn’t fully show it. The Sox are deep with bullpen prospects, so if they have to give up Hansen in a deal to get someone like Jones, I’m for it.

vince, crisp hit more homeruns and doubles than damon in 2005. his slugging was also higher and he stole more bases. I’d say that makes him a better player that year… he was injured last year but is now fully healed.

Papi is better than Giambi and Youk is better than whoever the DH is.

Manny is better than Matsui, Drew has more power than Abreu (don’t just look at career stats, look at recent years… Abreu’s power has diminished for his standard). Drew is younger as well and can play all OF positions.

Also, i’m pretty sure than EIGHT RBIs in 2 seasons is negligable… so let’s just call them even, shall we?

Pedroia was regarded by all scouts and stat analysts as far superior to Cano. your 2b has had some pretty good seasons but I doubt you’d be willing to bed substantial money on cano being better next season…

SS and 3B belong to the Yanks, I have no arguments there.

As for pitching, the Yankees have 2 starters – Wang and Mussina. plenty of pitchers have low ERAs and then implode. All i’m saying is that Wang’s K rate doesn’t suggest dominance. His groundball rate is outstanding but getting doubleplays relies not ONLY on skill but also on luck. He’s your ace though, and very comparable in skill to the best Sox pitchers next season. Papelbon will be better though in my opinion. He’s always been a starter prior to getting a 0.92ERA as a closer in his rookie year. I think I’ve said enough there already…

Moose is getting older but is still a legit #2 guy. Without him the Yankee rotation is a complete joke.

Beckett had one bad year, mainly because of adjusting to a new and stronger AL and the more hitter-friendly Fenway. He should rebound very nicely – he’s had some extremely good outings last year and as he gets less nervous he should improve.

Matsuzaka was Japan’s best pitcher. Japan won the WBC. Use logics there dude… no one’s questioning whether or not Matsuzaka will be great – only how DOMINANT he will be.

Schilling is, in my opinion, our 4th starter. He’s on par with Mussina…

So as you can see, the Yankees ARE NOT better than the Sox no matter how u see things.

by the “Eight RBIs” i meant Varitek and Posada. Seriously, you can’t really tell their offense apart (Varitek played hurt last season)

Varitek is also the Captain (just like Jeter…) and is MUCH better defensively. He calls a superb game as well.

I agree that the Yankees and Sox are pretty even. The Yankees right now have a better bullpen and the Sox have a better rotation. The lineup is about even, as is the bench. 2007 will be an interesting year.

I think that 2007 will be a solid rebound year for Varitek, and a breakout year for Pena.

jeff, the yanks don’t really have THAT much better of a bullpen; they have villone and rivera (Which is pretty good) but i’m sure the Sox can build one up from dealing Manny and maybe trading for others.

but yeah, the teams seem pretty even.

By the way, for those interested go to http://www.youtube.com and click on the top picture when you search ‘haka’. It is a pre-match ritual, a Maori wardance, done before every New Zealand rugby game. They have a second one, put Kapa o pango into youtube.com and click on the clip that’s 1 min 49 secs long. Great tradition and a great way to start off a game. You need sound.

going back to the 3 way deal, i think it would make more sense to trade manny to LA for broxton loney and kemp and then trade hansen and crisp to atlanta for jones. that way we end up with a solid future closer (broxton) a power hittig 1st baseman (loney) and a great center fielder (kemp). oh yeah, and andruw jones.

Once again ybrenner(and we know who that is) chooses to smear the blog with his childish tauntings and comments. I just wish he’d go away.

Ellen and all … I just wanted to express my sympathy to all of you for dealing with the “thing”. We have to deal with “it” on our blog too, and I am sure other blogs have to deal with its various infections as well.

It’s a shame our blogs have to be infected by such bile.

Just to let you know that you are not alone and that others on other blogs share in your disgust.

yankeefan1: it just sounds like he’s off his meds again! God someone please get him a refill!!

Any idea on who will be closing the games next season?

according to baseballprospectus, Manny Ramirez had a .340EQA last year, an aamazing stat. The new article from baseballprospectus.com also said that it would be illogical for Theo to trade manny just because he’s a bit “screwy”.

I agree. JD Drew is an ADDITION to the lineup, not a REPLACEMENT.

lugo was offered arbitration. now i’m more hesitant than ever to sign him. if we have to surrender our first round pick, i’d rather just resign loretta, have him play 2B and let pedroia man the SS position…

If a first round pick means Bard or Ellsbury, I’d rather not sign a risky SS thank you very much.

Jamie, if Lugo signs with the Cubs, I imagine the Sox will resign Loretta to play second and put Pedroia at short. Of course, time is running out. I imagine there is a strong chance that Lugo and Loretta will be signed this week at the winter meetings. I still hope the Sox sign Lugo. He is a decent defensive shortstop, can play center field or second, if needed, and can hit for some pwoer, average and steal bases. We need that in a leadoff hitter.

Again, just a reminder that the best policy with you know what is just to totally ignore. i’ll keep deleting and the rest of you keep ignoring. Deal?

Jeff, Ellsbury will be ready pretty soon – he can steal bases, hit for average (with some power) and can definitely play center field!

Signing Lugo means we give up a very high draft pick. That’s not smart when the team’s trying to rebuild… i’d rather save the $$ needed to get Lugo and just find some alternatives.

Did I get this straight; we trade Manny, Wily Mo and Hansen for Andrew Jones? Is that how that will work? Call me crazy, but if Jones is a downgrade from Manny and we lose him PLUS 2 other players to get a lesser player, am I wrong to say this just isn’t right? This is the Mirabelli trade all over again.

Vince, your position by position comparison is fine except for all the question marks. Try it again when the Sox have some players in place.

Can the Giants salvage their season?

I see Satan is back on the blogs. Sorry, Ian and Jeff, for your having to deal with that.

Sorry Ian. Totally ignore- got it!

Arnie, that rumor seems as unsubstantiated as the Steve Phillips rumor I saw on ESPN a few days ago about the Sox signing Barry Bonds if Manny is traded. No way the Sox include all of those players. I think what he meant was, in that three-way trade scenario, that Boston would get Jones, another team gets Manny (can’t remember who) and Atlanta gets prospects (not Hansen, and not players like Crisp or Pena). I can see the Sox dealing Crisp and Hansen (and perhaps another prospect) for Jones, if the Sox can sign Jones to an extension. That would be cool if the Sox brought in Drew, traded for Jones and kept Manny. Of course, I imagine all of that won’t happen!

Thanks, Jeff. These rumors are crazy.

Maybe Crisp, Drew and Jones. Seems like Manny will just have to go this time. If you believe what everyone is saying, that is. Actually, the C. D. & J. outfield would be great if they could put that together. I’m not a big Drew fan but with WMP waiting in the wings, it would be more acceptable.

The only reason why we might trade Manny is to acquire a closer and premier prospects.

Maybe the nationals? We can use Cordero and Zimmerman =)

I haven’t posted on this blog for awhile, but I’ve been reading for all this time but I must say that the sox should get rid of Manny now. We are going to have to get rid of him sooner or later and we might as well get some compensation for him. I understand that he is a big bat and protects David Ortiz, but he is a distraction to club because he is the type of player the media latches onto and never lets go. Its easy to blame manny for giving up last year. But I’d rather bite the bullet now, get some promising players for him and let it be. No Andruw Jones trade because that is going to be another player that locks up the payroll and doesn’t allow for flexibility. Albiet he is a great CF and I would love to see him with the team, but I feel that he would just lock up hte payroll by demanding a HUGE extension at around 20+ mil a year. The Sox front office needs to just stick to one agenda. We gave up an innings eater and quality pitcher for Wily Mo, so we might as well give him a chance to prove himself out there. I say re-sign loretta and screw lugo. He is over-valued and if he thinks he’s worth $9 mil a year, I don’t think the sox need that ego on the team. Drew, Pena, and Crisp doesn’t scream amazing but all you can ask for is production. The Twins have a lot of producers on the team and consistantly make the playoffs. The last time I checked, I didn’t look at the twins outfield and shake.
Theo needs to turn his focus to pitching. Unload Manny and work on putting together a solid bullpen and rotation. How about dish out some prospects for scott shields. Hansen doesn’t seem to have the mental toughness for Fenway, so I’m sure he can be added into a trade with the Angels. I thought the sox should have been bold with Spier but I guess the Matsuzaka madness overshadowed a good reliever. If gagne can come cheap like $6 mil or less, I would sign him. He might never be lights out again but anything is an upgrade from last year. Loading up on high status FA’s isn’t going to win the AL East, its putting together a team of producers. The Yankees have an amazing lineup but the clubhouse chemistry just isn’t there enough for them to pull out the WS. If we have learned anything from the last few playoffs, its the teams with the most chemistry that wins it all, not the team with the most big names…The red sox should keep that in mind

You are right muffinman. Build a team around 1 or 2 rbi guys, get some above-average gritty players. A rotation with 2 or 3 good starters,& a couple like Lowe and Arroyo. Good bullpen bolstered by a set-up man and lights out closer. Look at the championship teams and you don’t see an allstar lineup from top to bottom. Hard workers win.

Yeah, Thats what we looked like in 2004. We had Manny and Ortiz as our RBI guys. Mueller, Cabrera, Damon, Bellhorn, and Nixon as the gritty guys who showed up to play ball everyday. Tek and Millar both kept the chemistry intact in the the field. Then at the top we had Pedro and Schilling as our big guns with Arroyo and Lowe to eat up innings and of course ol’ reliable Wakefield to shore up the rotation. Our bullpen was effective but not amazing. But we didn’t need guys to all hit 30 HR’s and knock in100 RBI’s. Everybody on the team knew thier place. Now Epstein is trying to act like a little kid playing MLB 2006 on his xbox – trying to construct some team of all stars or “type A” free agents. Sign Matsuzaka and solidfy this rotation and add some quality bullpen arms. I’m tired of them signing **** guys like Seanez, Tavarez, (last year) or has beens like Halama, Mantai, BY kim (Two years ago). Lets get some serious proven guys who we can rely on. And start getting ready for the upcoming season.

Well, the thing that bothers me is, we may have a perfectly good player and next year he’s gone. New infield every year. Now, a new out- field also. Re-build the pitching staff every year. I think Theo is making more work for himself than is neccessary. Just my opinion.

The Sox should wait until NEXT OFFSEASON to build up a great bullpen. I mean, just look at who’s free next year! Rivera (who’ll probably be resigned by Yanks), Nathan (who’s too expensive now for the Twins), Hoffman, Isringhausen, and Linebrink among others.

Starters are also alot better (Though we already have a good staff): Carpenter (option for 08), Zambrano (cubs already spent too much $$ on soriano), Smoltz, Buehrle, Garcia.

The infielders are alot better too (so signing Lugo might be rather stupid): Michael Young (option for 08), Jeff Kent, Guillen, Giles, Eckstein.

AND FINALLY, OUTFIELDERS ARE SOOO MUCH BETTER!!!!!

Ichiro, Wells, Andruw Jones, JERMAINE DYE, Abreu, Hunter, Adam Dunn….

so let’s hold off on Drew for now since next year will produce alot of better OF FAs.

So the Red Sox should wait to improve?? That makes absolutely no sense at all and just because there are a lot of good free agents next year, it doesn’t rule out that they won’t sign an extension this upcoming season or people like Nathan might take a hometown discount to stay with the Twins or the Twins might increase payroll because they are getting that new stadium. The sox need a formidable bullpen NOW. A good starting rotation goes to waste with a crappy bullpen. They go hand in hand. Plus with the way money is flying around now all of the outfield FA’s are going to be same price as Drew and maybe even more. All of this big spending in baseball is corrupting the sport. I loved the approach the Tigers took. Signed some Marquee names (Ordonez and pudge) and groomed the rest and now they are a young team rich in talant sprinkled with veterans. I don’t fully buy into the “Moneyball” Theory but it does have a lot to say about finding productive talant that won’t cost you. In house we have some solid outfield prospects:

– Murphy – Who wasn’t quite ready last year but should be ready by halfway through this year.

- Ellsbury – Needs at least one more season in the minors before breaking into the bigs but regarded as another Johnny Damon type outfielder.

- Jason Place – He’s only 17 or 18 but is predicted to break into the bigs in 2010. Here’s his scouting report: “Five tool outfielder who plays the game at full tilt. Raw power and above average speed. Strikes out a lot. Has had a few issues with injured hamstrings.” His strikeout issues can be addressed in the minors and strengthening can help the hammys.

Signing Drew gives the sox some veteran talant and if he blossoms into the player hes predicted to be he can help out the younger kids. The only player I would encourage the sox to splurge on is Roger Clemens. Not only will he give you 100% for whenever he starts but hes also Papelbon’s idol and papelbon could use his mentoring and also Clemens advice on Paps newly acquired splitter. Furthermore, Clemens can give advice to the other young pitchers (Van Buren, Delcarmen, Edgar Martinez, and Breslow and maybe Buchholz if the sox rush him). Other than that I think the sox should trade and not splurge on some of these big names who will command BIG money. But thats just my two cents.

we can’t really built a bullpen this year because there are virtually none left on the market… no teams would wish to trade away reliable arms so we might actually HAVE to wait.

If there are many good players, each of them will come cheaper. It’s supply-and-demand at work! Do you honestly think that Carlos Lee would get paid 17m per year if ichiro, abreu, jones, wells, etc. were all on the market? of course not! the same applies to pitching, infield, etc.

You know I try to kee up with you guys, but your baseball knowledge is just way too superior to mine, I just have to sit back and read!
Jamie, HOW OLD ARE YOU!!!?? I wish I knew then what you know now!!

Yeah, but the way agents see it is well Carlos Lee got $17 mil last year and (Insert Name) had another solid year and if Carlos Lee went for that much and my player is more valuable than I’ll demand more. The thing is that GM’s will still pay it. If all the GMs decided they weren’t going to pay the big money anymore, then prices will drop but all it will take next year is for some team to give one of those players big money and all the rest will go for big money. This year the cubs decided to set the bar high with an overpriced Aramis Ramirez which led to players like Soriano and Lee to get fat paychecks. I guess the point I’m trying to get across is that the Sox don’t need to go after the big names. We have a farm system for a reason and spending wildly on players is not smart for the overall organization. We shouldn’t morgage a decade to win one championship.

lol ellen i’m 16 but i’d be much happier if my baseball knowledge transmuted into good grades in biology haha… well one can dream, right? =)

Muffinman, i agree that the Sox shouldn’t have to break the bank or empty the prospects cupboard to acquire a potential FA bust. The thing with FAs though, is that there were only TWO good outfielders this year, Soriano (and I use the term outfielder VERY loosely…) and Carlos Lee (never had OPS above .900). There is a shortage for OF talent and thus GMs HAVE to compete more among each other for their services. Hence, the price of each individual goes up.

Next offseason will be much better – plenty of more talent available. The Sox would also get Ellsbury and Murphy (and of course Pena) so… yeah, the Sox definitely should not go all-out this offseason for OF talent. JD Drew seems pretty reasonable though… as long as he’s not injured, we should be fine.

Please god, don’t ever let Lastings Milledge back into Fenway as a member of the Red Sox. True, I haven’t seen as much of him as say, a Mets fan would, but please…does no one else remember his atrocious defensive “plays” in left field during Interleague Play this year??? I was laughing my head off at this guy trying to field routine ground balls out there. True, there is the Green Monster and its various caroms to deal with, but please…Lastings was a joke out there, completely laughable.

Bottom line: I don’t want to see Manny go at all, under any circumstances.

Posted by: fisher.megan@gmail.com | November 28, 2006 10:38 PM

I was just reading this post, and you make it seem like Lastings Milledge is all mistakes. I have seen this kid play in the Minors, as I live in the Hampton Roads area and seen many many Tides games a season. He is amazing, and you apparently forgot that it was his first ever game at Fenway, not to mention he was playing left field, not center, where he is accustomed to playing, battling the Monster AND the lights. I’m not making excuses for him, but he is awesome. I have seen him make some outstanding plays and hit some homeruns into the Elizabeth River. You talk like he doesn’t have the capability to be an exceptional part of the team. Don’t focus on one game without taking the whole season into perspective.

Just my two cents – I’m going to work a little bit now.

P.S. I’m not saying that I’d LIKE to see Manny go anywhere – I’m just defending another exceptional player.

Go to http://www.sportsblender.blogspot.com for a tribute to Trot Nixon

How abouth this deal. ManRam to the Phillies for John Lieber and Pat Burrell. Takes care of left field and a bat to protect Papi, and you get an arm to boot.

who needs more than this to make a decision on Wily Mo Pena ?

Wily Mo Pena, OF — The Major League veteran is struggling in his first six playoff games for Aguilas, going 1-for-23 with two RBIs.

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