This is Theo's team now

More than in any offseason, Theo Epstein has put his official stamp on the upcoming Red Sox edition.

He has stuck his neck out and paid big money for both J.D. Drew and Julio Lugo — moves that the public don’t seem completely sold on — at least not yet. Obviously there was the $51.1 million bid for Matsuzaka and who knows how big the contract will be.

This is the first time, I believe, since he made the Nomar trade that Theo has completely put his cards on the table and said, "If this works, great, If not, I’m going to get carved up."

There is both high risk and high reward and it the result could be World Series or bust. I’m fascinated to see the way it all comes together.

It looks like Manny is staying, and I think that’s a good thing for J.D. Drew’s sake. He’s a strong No. 5 hitter. That would be way too much pressure for him to have to replace Man-Ram. Obviously the Red Sox are confident enough that Manny will be OK with staying. At this hour, I’d really be shocked if he isn’t in Fort Myers in February.

The one place the Red Sox are short right now is in the closer’s role. Will it be Eric Gagne? Only if the price comes down. RIght now, Gagne and agent Scott Boras are asking an awful lot (probably $6 or 7 million over one year) for a guy who has thrown 15 innings in two years.

Anyway, Theo has put his cards on the table. Let’s see if he gets black jack.

Ian.

119 Comments

I’m a long time Dodger fan, but I enjoy watching the Sox on ESPN and other channels. Due to the start times we see a bunch more games from your time zone, which translates to the Sox and that other team. You guys are always fun to watch.
I’m always sorry to see good Dodgers go to other teams, but I don’t think anyone in LA was really sorry to see Drew go.

I just wish it wasn’t you guys who got stuck with the bill.

I feel the same way about Drew, but for different reasons. I hope that for the sake of all of us that he lives up to Theo’s expectations. And Theo is right; if his deals don’t pan out he IS LIKELY to be carved up by the Nation. I will continue to root for my team as I have all of my life, but, it’s going to be strange looking at right field and not having #7 there. good luck to Drew and Lugo. LET’S GO REDSOX, LET’S GO!!!

Given the Drew and Lugo signings, I’m leaning towards sitting tight with Manny now… especially with the good news that Lester is getting healthy. Our one hole now is the Closer. With the lineup pretty stacked as-is… I’m most concerned about who we are going to put up to the plate with the bases loaded every game (Papi, Manny, Drew all getting walks) ;-) I’d like to make sure we don’t have a double-play machine in the #6 slot.

I agree with Ian’s points around Theo. Given all of the recent disasters (Mirabelli, Meredith, Bard, Hanley, Sanchez, Beckett), he better have some successes soon.

yeah Theo’s taking some huge gambles here. Lugo’s struggled at times and has only a .270 career AVG. Drew is injury-prone and can prove to be a headache.

Still, I’m optimistic… Drew’s last injury was because he got hit by a pitch – not his fault. Lugo was having a great yr for the Rays (.300AVG, .370OBP) before being traded.

So our payroll’s around 130m now. We have only a dozen more million bucks or so to spend before reaching the luxury cap. Matsuzaka’s probably gonna cost 10-12m and we STILL need a closer! Still, trading Manny will not be a solution.

Our 2007 team looks promising…

O, and I just realized something – how about we use Lester as a closer? Paps could do it extremely well, and scouts rated Lester above Papelbon prior to the 05 breakout season by Papelbon. We already have 5 solid starters in Schill, Paps, Beckett, Matsuzaka and Wakefield…

Right now Lester has way too little control to be a closer. Closer is not a place you put a highly touted extra starter, there are more variables in that position than any other position in baseball.

we don’t how Lester will do. We can definitely try it though. Papelbon was a highly touted starter and he was arguably the best closer in baseball last year! (certainly had the lowest ERA of them all)…

I’d prefer signing Gagne or maybe even give Dotel (who surrendered back to back walkoff wins for the Sox in 2005 so i’m not too high on him)a chance.

one way or another we need a closer. Okaji and Timlin simply won’t do it for us.

The only J.D. that should be getting $70 million is Johnny Damon. I thought at the time the Sox did the right thing by not paying Damon, but after letting Damon go to the Yankees, how stupid does this look? They offer Damon 3 years, he wants 4, but it’s against Red Sox policy to do that. So they give Drew 5 years. Must be a new policy in place. Then you give up on Trot Nixon and now you have a Trot Nixon caliber outfielder you’re paying three times what you’d pay Nixon. Then you let one of the best defensive shortstops in baseball go, who also didn’t hit all that badly, to spend another 36 million on a pretty average ballplayer. Can someone tell me how this makes sense? Did the Red Sox spend $76 million and not get any better, or am I imagining things?

Did someone paint pin stripes on Theo Epstein? This, along with the Japanese investment is all looking very Yankee like.

To Johnny Damon, I loved you as a player in Boston, but I said and thought some bad things about you when you left for a little extra money and another year. Please accept my sincerest apolgies for those thoughts and words. Loyalty is a two way street, and the Red Sox just slapped you in the face.

With that being said, when the Sox take the field in April, I will be pulling for Drew and Lugo to do well. After all, isn’t all this what being a Res Sox fan is all about?

Merry Christmas everyone.

Ah, my sentiments exactly. See! Redsox and Yankee fans can agree on some things. I will say this though, Drew, if healthy, and if he can be mentally ready, which are big ifs, is a little upgrade over Nixon. Not beloved by redsox nation, not homegrown, not worth the money he is commanding, but still an upgrade talentwise, but not by as much as sox fans would like to think, in my opinion

Well said gsm52.

Get rid of Nomar for Cabrera-turns out well.

So Theo gets rid of Cabrera for Rentaria-BAD

Bring in Gonzalez-good

Get rid of Gonzo for a guy who costs more and plays about the same when you add up the pluses and minuses-senseless

So, I have been saying this for a while, Theo seems to enjoy spinning his wheels.

I just don’t get it.

But I am with you gsm52, I’ll cheer for the new guys, too.

If I had to rank the four I would say cabrera was probably the best and dealing him made the least sense. He was on your championship team and was fundamentally and defensively sound during it. He was not overly expensive and is better defensively than renteria and offensively and defensively than lugo. Nomar wanted out, you can’t fault the FO for that, renteria has a terrible defensive season, but he should not have been ther ebecause you never should have dumped cabrera.

Im thinking the whole Lugo thing is more of an upgrade in the speed department. average hitter, like gonzo, but more speed for stealing bases and such. Maybe crisp is the next to go, who knows. I would have prefered that they had kept Gonzo, as it looks like Loretta isnt an option and Lugo and Pedrosia cant be a better tandom then what we had last year.

Drew might have more raw talent then Nixon, but all things being equal as far as the amount of games they might both play, id rather have Nixon. His heart and desire over someone who might be a clubhouse flop anyday. If Nixon was healthy for a full season, im sure he could put up numbers close to drews.

Where’s the Gagne signing, come on Theo were all waiting for that one.

Now, hypothetically, if gagne, drew, beckett, timlin and say, I don’t know, Manny were injured next year. Are you all going to blame injuries, fully knowing all of them are injury proned? Except manny, who might make himself injury proned if the sox fall to 5 games out of 1st place.

In other news, Lilly signs with cubs, pettitte decides he will return for 2007

You’re right Vince, Cabrera was too good to let go. And he was a great clubhouse guy.

d reinbold, I think that Lugo and Gonzo are about equal, but with Gonzo’s defense he added another element, confidence for the pitchers. Although the pitchers last year did not seem to derive much benefit. We’ll see about Drew, all the experts are now saying what a great guy he is to have around, but I am skeptical.

Vince, thanks. As everyone knows, in sports, preparation is key. And now you have given us our excuse should things go terribly wrong. Thanks again. Now, fully prepared for the worst, Sox fans can bravely cheer our fool heads off knowing it’s not OUR fault should things not work out.

Good point by gsm52.

I don’t see why we went after Drew when we could have gotten Nixon on a possible hometown discount. From the way things were going early on, it seemed he might have been back.

As for Lugo, I know he’s been iffy at times, but there’s always been something about him that called out to me saying that he could do better than he did in Tampa (which wasn’t bad). Granted his LA stint was meh, but who knows.

As for Manny, I hope he stays. I think what Vince said is key: “…manny, who might make himself injury proned if the sox fall to 5 games out of 1st place.” When the Sox are winning, you hear less of his antics because they don’t seemingly show up as often. Plus trading him would be one heck of a stupid move offensively. 100+ RBIs? I’d take that any day even with his personality. He’s no T.O., heck far from it.

Please, people. I am a lifelong BoSox fan and have an affinity for Trot Nixon like everyone else in Red Sox Nation, but let’s not go overboard. Nixon is not even remotely as talented as Drew. Baseball is a business that requires decisions based on instinct not on the heart.

There comes a time when teams must decide when to let go of a beloved player (like Nixon), and the time is right to part ways with Trot. I would be willing to bet that all of Drew’s naysayers will be silenced once the season begins. He is an ideal No. 5 hitter, and I imagine his HR and RBI total will increase.

As for Damon, he did not deserve the length and amount of the contract that he was seeking. I prefer Drew to Damon. If Coco Crisp is not traded – as long as he is healthy – I think that Red Sox Nation will no longer bring up Damon’s name. Crisp hasn’t even scratched the surface of how good he will be, much like Wily Mo Pena.

Regarding Lugo, he is a much better option than Alex Gonzalez. True, Gonzo is one of the game’s best defensive shortstops. However, Lugo is not a liability on defense. He is decent. ANd what he provide offensively far outweighs what Gonzo does defensively. If the Sox keep Crisp, then we have two tablesetters – not just one – atop the order. Both Lugo and Crisp have pop in their bat, get on base and steal bases.

As I have mentioned before, the Sox farm system will start producing players in 2008 and 2009. Until then, we have to fill holes by free agent signings and trade acquisitions. Believe me, once the season begins, you will be glad that Lugo and Drew are in the lineup rather than Gonzo and Trot.

Jeff

http://www.bosoxbanter.mlblogs.com

Nixon was crippled by injuries subsequent his 28-HR 2003 season. He was sapped of his power and could no longer reach his potential…

Drew has NOT been diminished by injuries, hitting 100RBI and 20HR last year. His last injury was a hit by pitch. Hardly his fault…

Drew is also better than Damon. In almost every offensive category he trumps Damon, sometimes by quite a margin. Drew is also younger.

Jeff is right. Gonzo and Trot were fan favs to an extent but there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Lugo and Drew are upgrades.

First off, I wanted Gonzo to stay as SS. I felt that he more than made up for his shortcomings on offense with his glove. I really think that Lugo is a major upgrade on the speed, and offensive ends.

Drew has to stay on the field though for this to work. As for the GDP’s, Youkilis is going to need to bat 6th.

hey i was just wondering… is Theo behind these deals or are LUCCHINO and HIS people responsible…?

I know that Lucchino wants veterans, so… what do yall think?

Right now you can put me in skeptics department with these new moves. The whole Damon thing was typical of the Red Sox FO lowballing high profile players (Roger anyone??) Boston isn’t the place you want to go to if you are seeking loyalty. I was hoping that wtih Theo and Co. that would change but obviously it isn’t going to. I feel that trot would be better at RF. If we all have forgotten so quickly, Trot’s numbers trumped Drew’s through the first half of the season before Trot go hurt. Trot is just like Drew. Raw talent but fragile. I still do not understand the Lugo deal either considering Loretta played one **** of a season last year AND wanted to stay with the organization, yet we get rid of him for a guy with comparable defense and offense yet more speed? Oh and Lugo costs way more. These new players are going to have to prove their worth here in beantown for me to be on board with the new moves. Sure its exciting to have new players but it seems like every year the FO insists on getting a whole new lineup put together with hardly encourages clubhouse chemistry. In my opinion, Theo’s immunity has warn out its welcome. Sure he brought Schilling and Traded Nomar for the Championship mix, but we wouldn’t be having this SS problem if we would have kept Hanley Ramirez (NL ROY btw) and not gotten back an arrogant kid who thinks he can walk into the superier league and still try to throw his fastball past people. Sox Nation better hope to God Beckett learned a new pitch this offseason: humility. Sure I may be negative about this, but I honestly believe that buying all these overpriced players achieves nothing. Sure we might be great for a year or two, but over the long haul it does nothing for the team. This FO has been all over the place the last couple of years and I’m just tired of this constant shuffle of players year in and year out. Hopefully the sox can bring in Gagne and sign Matsuzaka and hold on for another wild ride before dismanteling the team again next offseason..

On your question Jamie, I think that the two are the same…that was why Theo left last year…key ideological differences, so I think that these moves are the product Lucchino and his people collaborating with Epstein and Epstein agreeing. I think when Manny’s contract expires, they will pick up one of his option years and then start Jason Place..(18 year old in single A I believe). I was talking to my friend who did a workout at Fenway last season (Red sox called to draft him 10th round, but he declined to get some college under his belt and re-enter later) but he said that Jason Place is unreal. 18 year old kid dropping bombs over the monster like it was no big deal. So by the time Drew’s contract expires or he wears out his welcome in Boston (Which I believe the latter will happen) the sox will hopefully have Ellsbury and Place in the OF with possibly crisp there too which fits what Theo wants. I dont think Theo disagrees with these signings, but he would rather have “his kids” in there, but realizes that Drew is giong to provide that transition, while simultaneously pleasing and agreeing with Luchinno. Naturally Lucchino will have a more powerful influence seeing that he is Theo’s superior…

Muffin, stability comes when you follow Theo’s plan for bringing in players in their prime who have talent (Drew and Lugo are prime examples), and developing a deep farm system so can can fill many holes from within. The Sox have several prospects who will be ready in the next few years, so you will likely see more stability. Sometimes you sign players that don’t work out and you have to part ways with them (Renteria), and other times you sign players who work out but realize there are better options (Gonzo, Loretta) and also there comes a time when you need to part with longtime players (Trot) who are no longer as productive as they once were. Drew is MUCH more productive than the current version of Trot. As for Beckett, who showed signs of pitching better at the end of 2006. I’m sure he was humbled by the beatings he took. The bottom line is that he has nasty stuff, and is a No. 1 or No. 2 caliber starter. Sometimes it takes a humbling experience to wake up someone. I bet that Red Sox Nation will have a more favorable opinion of Beckett by May.

I hope the Sox sign D-Mat and Gagne as well, and perhaps acquire Brendan Donnelly (a rumor at the winter meetings). As for the longevity of these players – and stability – Schilling will retire after this season, Clement’s contract expires and Lowell’s contract expires. I imagine the Sox will not resign Lowell after this season.

Jeff

http://www.bosoxbanter.mlblogs.com

Ellsbury will be traded for bullpen help. That’s my guess. We already have 4 good OFs. We don’t really need him. Either he or Murphy goes soon.

Ellsbury is supposed to be great; if he is traded it will be another Hanley Ramirez et. al. trade.
I don’t like Theo’s plan of, “We’ll have a closer by spring.” A good closer is key, not something you hope comes along, maybe or maybe not.

Jamie, I very highly doubt that Ellsbury will be traded. Scouts project him to be a younger and even more talented version of Johnny Damon. The Marlins have expressed interest in Murphy for center field. I wouldn’t mind the Sox dealing Murphy for a reliever. I think the top priority right now is signing D-Mat. Then, Theo can continue the search for a closer and a main set-up man.

One more thing. Remember that Manny will be a free agent after the 2008 season, and likely Jason Place will not be MLB ready by then. If the Sox keep Crisp – which I imagine they will if he has a breakout year this year – they would have Ellsbury, Crisp, Drew and Pena, which would be a nice combo.

i believe that Manny’s options might be activated (if only to trade him away, as per Sheffield)

Ellsbury is VERY talented; I don’t dispute that. That’s why I think we can get some legit arms for him! Murphy too.

We simply have too many OF and not enough bullpen arms. I just suggest what seems logical.

Drew came out of college as one of the best prospects in the history of the game. That was nine years ago. He’s been around too long to still be talking about talent and potential and certainly hasn’t done anything to warrant a $70 million deal.

I don’t know what these guys will make this year, but based on 2006 salaries, Drew will make more than every outfielder in baseball except Manny Ramirez, Barry Bonds and Maglio Ordonez. He would be making the same as Albert Pujols and more than such nonentities as Bobby Abreu, Johnny Damon, Vlad Guerrero, Andruw Jones, and a variety of others on Baseball’s Top 25 Salary list. Some of those players will make more this year, but is Drew in their league? Oh Yeah, he’ll make more than Big Papi too.

Sorry, with no disrespect to J. D. Drew, I just have a problem with spending that much on a pretty average player by major league standards, when there are so many other holes to fill. More than the money, the commitment is too long. He’s getting along in years and the Sox have the likes of Ellsbury sitting in the wings.

Someone use the term “spinning their wheels”. Excellent choice of words. The bottom line is that the Sox have done nothing to make themselves better. They are an aging team that will run out of gas in August like they have the past two years. Seems like Francona’s main concern was who he was going to rest rather than who he was going to play.

Jeff???? MY HINEY!! Tell me and show me that Trot is not as (hang on YOU REALLY got my Isrih up on this one!!!!!!!) talented as JD DREW!! They are appx the same age and have very, very comparable stats.. Not to mention Trot knows right and right center better than ANYONE IN THE PAST 10-12 YEARS!! PLUS he is a home town favorite. Another thing,, I’ve seen Plenty on the Dodger blog that says Drew is as much of a distraction as Manny!! Can you add these “intangibles” into your BETTER THAN equation?? Yeah… alot of mine are rooted in sentimentality, but, go to your stats and prove me ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!

I also think you are wrong about A-Gon!

Jamie, look at the cummulative totals of the spent on the DL by both….

…And let me ask one question… if you need an guy that’s going to give 120% on any given day, and to be a REAL TEAM PLAYER, are you gonna look to Trot Or JD Drew?? Well, we don’t relly have a choice NOW do we???

MUFFINMAN: I DEFINITELY DO NOT THINK YOU ARE WRONG. I think thSox need to start thinking about continuity!!!. Have somethmg that is consistent!! I’m tiredddd of the BIG MONEY ****!

IN A VERY SMALL SPACE OF TIME THEO HAS BEOME THE SAME AS GEORGE WITH THE CHECKBOOK!!! I know that it is a business, but we need some season to season to continuity.. Was the infield the bone of contention with our team in 2006?? NO, It wasn’t even with our collective outfield. We had a bad year in the pen, bad time with injuries,(in/outfield and pitching!) I TRULY DON’T THINK THAT BIG MONEY PLAYERS ARE THE ANSWER!! But then again, what the lleh do I know??? Maybe not much, but I’m really pis>t that Theo can’t opt for something steady for once!!!!

One stat to remember on Nixon vs. Drew… Trot has hit .207 against lefties over the last 3 years. That’s just way too low for an everyday player hitting in the #5 spot. Drew over the same time… .263.

I disagree with some views in this post that Damon wasn’t worth his money. He definitely was last year and definitely appears to be a good deal now given all of these other high salaries. We lost Damon because our front office was a mess during the Theo hiatus. I don’t think there is any other way to spin that. Yes, Coco might improve… Yes, Damon might eventually wear down… but as of now, those moves should be classified as 100% disaster.

Yeah thats why boston has been remodeling every year and the yankees haven’t EXCEPT starting pitchers, which will change by 2008, because nobody wants to play in ny anymore. Please, go use your identities elsewhere. Your credibility as anything civilized disappeared once again when you called mark a racist for voting archie bunker one of the greatest sitcom characters of all time.

Lilly didn’t resign with the yankees because the yankees never made an official offer. Not because they lowballed their former players like damon. Why don’t you concentrate on signing matsuzaka before you lecture anybody on wanting to play for a team. Name one player on the yankees that demanded to leave the last what, four years now?

Hey all,

I am a Dodger fan out in LA, but I wanted to say that I do hope these players work out for you. J.D. is a good guy, and at the end of the season he was showing promise, it looked as if his swing was coming back. So, I hope he steps it up for you. The only problem with Drew is his lack of emotion and that stupid swing he does when he strikes out. He makes striking out look effortless sometimes. Lugo was a good pickup. I think his numbers will jump up when he gets a chance to start everyday, so the best of luck to all of you.

Drew over the next two or three years will be dramatically better than Trot. There is really no question about that. But will he be $7-8 million dollars a year better? and almost as importantly, how will years 4 and 5 of that contract look?

I like the move to bring Drew in (especially if Manny stays), but question the lengths that were gone to do it.

That being said….there was no better option out there, so in a vacuum it looks like they overpaid, but in context, it was likely the right move. Only time will tell.

Tim

http://www.redsoxtimes.com

Ellen, I knew you wouldn’t agree with my views on Drew and Lugo, and Trot and Gonzo, but we can’t agree on everything!

Archie Bunker, the best sitcom character ever? Maybe one of them. How about the cast of Cheers? Or Kramer?

Vince, there are players who request to leave every team – the Yankees included. And you don’t know what goes on behind the scenes. Believe me, if Manny was a Yankee, he would still behave the same way. Very few players want to leave Boston and NY alike. Why would they? Especially in Boston where the stadium is packed even when the Sox are out of the race. For every one player who wants to leave Boston, I can tell you 10 who want to play there and enjoy playing there. So that is a non-issue. There will always be someone on a team who is disgruntled – in MLB, NFL and the NBA. These are men in their 20s and 30s who are paid multi-millions, after all.

One final thing. Since the Sox have holes to fill this off season, and their wealth of prospects are not ready for MLB, they have to overspend for guys like Drew and Lugo. Henry has the money, and the Sox need to fill the holes, so it is pointless to ask if Drew is worth his contract, and Lugo is worth his contract. Are you paying their salaries? No, Henry is. The Sox are a big market team. We are not the Brewers. The Sox can afford these contracts. Down the road, they won’t need to sign as many big money players since they will have home-grown talent to fill the holes. Right now, that is not the case. Would you rather the Sox decrease their payroll and suffer with Nixon and Gonzalez than bring in more productive players like Drew and Lugo? If so, then you would not be warranted to complain if the Sox endure another season like 2006.

Jeff

http://www.bosoxbanter.mlblogs.com

GSM, you say the Sox are an aging team? Have you looked at their roster? Manny is 34, Crisp is 27, Drew is 31, Pena is 25, Youkilis is 26 or 27, Pedroia is 24 or 25, Lugo is 31, Lowell is 34. Varitek is old for catcher’s standards. Schilling and Wakefield are older, but they are still productive. The only old arm in the bullpen is Timlin.

So, essentially, Timlin, Wakefield and Schilling are the only older players on the team. Manny and Lowell are still in their prime since they play positions that are not physically taxing. Review the facts before making a statement. The Sox have a nice mix of young players and players in their prime. As the prospects become ready for MLB, the team will only get younger. still, it is always good to have a mix of veterans in their prime and young players.

Jeff

http://www.bosoxbanter/mlblogs.com

go to http://www.sportsblender.blogspot.com for a tribute to the Dirt Dog

I am glad that this off season has been,
“all Theo .. all the time.” The whole GM by comittiee deal last year ******!

Man they butchered last season!

There is increasing anxiety on Yawkey Way that agent Scott Bora is posing an obstacle to the Red Sox bid to sign Daisuke Matsuzaka. According to sources with direct access to the Sox’ view, there is an increasing feeling that Boras is setting the stage, both privately and publicly, that there is not going to be a deal.
– Boston Globe

This wouldn’t be good if we don’t sign him because every free agent pitcher is off the market now. Looks like Boras is sticking to his guns after all.

boras doesn’t have the full control here. Matsuzaka makes the ultimate decision and he’s facing enormous pressure in japan to sign… i think he’lll sign 6 yr 60m.

Jeff I was simply responding to the ***** statement that “nobody wants to play for the yankees because they have less chance of winning than the cubs, are not playoff caliber and cannot sign old players that have already played for them”. It makes no sense whatsoever so I was simply pointing out the bigot monster’s own team’s shortcomings. And for those of you who don’t know, that was the same idiot that posts under 4000 email addresses for fun.

Jamie, Matsuzaka might be pressured to sign here, but that doesn’t mean boras or himself will be lowballed to sign for the sox. He doesn’t see a penny of the bid, 10 million in this offseason? Yeah, right and even if he did sign for anything near that like 12 or 13, there is no way they would accept arbitration and be tied up for 6 years. It would be one or the other as a best case scenario. I don’t think you get him for any more than four years and any less than 13 million a year. Not this season at the very least when lilly signed for 10, and schmidt for what, 13? And he is 34 and not 26.

It would be too risky for everyone involved if D-Mat doesn’t sign. If he goes back to Japan, his team gets none of the 51 Mil. If he gets hurt in that season, he would be flushing even more money down the drain. He’ll sign soon… 4 years, $48 Mil my estimate.

hmm I was just thinking: Doesn’t WMP have more upside than Crisp and isn’t WMP alot more dependable in center than RF?

So let’s just play WMP regularly in center and give him the 6th spot in the lineup. Watch as he absolutely crushes 30-40 HR and get around 120 RBI…

So then Crisp would be remanded to a 4th OF role. Wait… didn’t we trade a top10 prospect in ANDY MARTE for him??

Let’s add that to the list of stupid moves made last offseason!!!

I think wmp was destined to be an everyday starter before the trade last year. Im sure he will eventually get sick of playing the back-up outfielder. Crisp offers better defense in the outfield that already has manny. Im guessing that one of those two, crisp or wmp will be dealt for a closer if we dont sign gagne. oh ya…and yankees su k ..lol, sorry havent said that in 2 or 3 days, needed to get it out. Wouldnt the rocket fit in nicely this season. Im sure he would make beckett 150% better, as he went thru the same thing beckett’s going thru. Not to mention we get back one of the greatest pitchers of all-time. Can you imagine, schilling, beckett, rocket, d-mat and pap???? even our pen would have starters better then the regular pin stripers starters.
lester and wake…lol

haha reinbold it would be so cool to get the Rocket back. But the Sox don’t really need his services that much and certainly wont’ spend 20m for him…

guys, how does the rule 5 draft work? care to share some insight, Ian?

I know that you guys think that I’m beating a dead horse, and I hope JD Drew proves me wrong for the sake of the Team and all of us, but here is a little statistic that I heard today on sports talk radio here in So. Fl.: In his career, JD Drew has never had consecutive seasons where he played 110 games. and, he’s been on the DL 7 out of the last years! Sorry I’m still not over this.

Lester and wake better than mussina and wang? Keep dreaming. We have enough possibilities that will come onto the rotation in the next two years to justify a signing of maybe pettitte and nothing else. Yeah, try telling rocket and pettitte to pitch as enemies on the rivals. The Yankees would have plenty more leverage for rocket than the sox if we get pettitte and plenty of money we haven’t spent on injury proned right fielders, new shortstops for no reason and a japanese import 6 days away from leading you to the most embarrassing blunder in a while.

That said, I would be extremely angry if we signed clemens, the guy is not worth it at this point.

You’ve got the starters, we have the offense and a bullpen. Look no further than the current closers. Have fun signing a key element to the team whom hasn’t pitched in two years.

so vince, u want pettite but not clemens? how does that work out?

Lester and Wake are certainly better than a totally diminished Johnson and a very mediocre Igawa.

I wish I could be happy about the signings of Drew and Lugo. I agree with everyone above who refers to these moves as well…um…yankee-like. Did Theo attend the George Steinbrenner workshop on how to use your checkbook to destroy team chemistry? That being said…how many days ’til pitchers and catchers?

Yeah Jamie, it’s very simple. I don’t trust clemens, I don’t need another 40+ year old breaking down when october comes and I’ll take Pettitte one guaranteed full season, for less money as a lefty, in Yankee stadium. And he didn’t sell out, clemens did.

lol yeah but clemens is definitely the superior pitcher. If the Sox didn’t already have 6 starters i’d totally want to sign him.

abners, i disagree about the team chemistry comment. Drew and Lugo are not particularly bad people, they just have some less-than-optimal reputations. Remember, team chemistry doesn’t result in winning; WINNING reults in CHEMISTRY!

=)

and no one has yet to explain what a rule5 draft is! how do teams just take players from other teams…? and who exactly are eligible to be drafted??

WOW!! I’ve been missing all the fun!!!
Ellen, don’t dance around like that, just say what’s on your mind! JK

I’m solidly with all the continuity people. I disagree about the $$$ comments. Every so often baseball salaries take a big jump and this is one of those years. Supply and demand, you pay what the market will bear.

Now that Lugo and Drew are Sox i will just have to cheer for them. The only player I will NOT cheer for if he becomes a Sox is Barry. And that won’t happen.

Jwilhelm, I was thinking the same about the “GM by commitee” last winter. Boy, did that not work!

Well, gotta go work some more.

76 days til pitchers and catchers report…. I CAN’T WAIT, because then its only a mtter of days til spring training and THENNNNNN……. OH YEAHHHHH!

Excuse my igaorance, but with Clemens, will he wait again this season until April or May, you know long enough to get a read on how a team is going to do before FINALLY committing his “precious time” to them?? Excuse me, but, I know he’s not usually verbally outspoken in and/or with the media, but doesn’t this non-spoken statement speak volumes about his character and loyalty?? I realize that in todays market, that those qualities don’t mean much but…..

I was listening to a sports talk show today that reported that St.Louis is showing serious interest in Bonds. From my blindered standpoint regarding Bonds, the only reason I can see any team signing him is that he is well within reach of THE RECORD. Having him on a team would put butts in the seats at any stadium. BUTTS IN THE SEATS=$$$$$. I’m sure that which ever team signs him, it WILL NOT be any type of contract that would involve more than 1-2 years.

I agree with Arnie. There is no way I would root for Bonds. That is why, when I heard Steve Phillips say the Red Sox were considering signing Bonds if Manny was traded, my stomach churned. Bonds is a disgrace to himself, his family and the game. If he breaks Hank Aaron’s record on the road, I actually think he will be greeted by boos rather than cheers.

If Clemens wants to pitch in Boston this season, I say give him what he wants. Wakefield is versatile. He can pitch out of the pen. I sincerely doubt that Clemens will be wearing a Red Sox uniform, though.

GMs by committee and closers by committee do not work, do not work (haha). I imagine that either Wily Mo or Crisp will be traded to acquire a closer. I hope that neither are dealt. I think that Crisp will have a breakout year and show what he can do when healthy. Ditto for Wily Mo. Since Manny will definitely be gone after the 2008 season ends, it would be nice to have Wily Mo, Crisp, Ellsbury and Drew. As for 2007, wouldn’t it be nice to have Manny, Crisp and Drew in the outfield, as well as Wily Mo and Hinske coming off the bench. I would think that Wily Mo could get 300-350 at-bats spot starting in all three outfield spots. Hinske will be a backup corner infielder and outfielder.

What we need more than anything is depth, and we have that right now, except at catcher and in the bullpen (where we have everything we need except the main set-up man and the closer).

Jeff

http://www.bosoxbanter.mlblogs.com

I think we should have an unofficial pool on the D-Mat contract amount prediction. My guess is $10.5 million a year for five years. Any other predictions?

Jeff

http://www.bosoxbanter.mlblogs.com

According to the Boston Herald, the Royals have also signed Octavio Dotel. Wow, the Royals are putting that revenue sharing money to good use!

Jeff

http://www.bosoxbanter.mlblogs.com

will someone PLEASE tell me what the heck the rule 5 draft is??

jeff, any deal with matsuzaka will probably be the full 6 years. I say 11mil, a middleground.

the “dirt dog” bit the dust. get over it! he aint never never never coming back! and it is true that previous yankee pitching rejects are now rejecting resigning with the yankees. they believe, as ted lilly does, that even the cubs(1908)have a better chance to go to the world series in 2007 than the “bombers”. lilly’s agent said as much. and pettitte is never coming back to ny either. the yankees left a real bad taste in his mouth from his past stay. and i dont care what brian boy offers him. i don’t believe the baloney that houston has accepted andy’s not coming back and has prepared for it. plus andy and his agent think the houston astros are also more likely to win the world series than the yankees. and so do i. you just cant take the truth. wah ha ha.

Jamie, I don’t know the specifics of Rule V (and I’m too lazy right now to look it up), but as far as I know, when you select a player in the Rule V draft, you pay $50,000 and you must put him on your active 25-man roster once the regular season begins or return him to his original team for $25,000. If the Sox keep Debarr, he must remain with the Sox the entire season, much like Adam Stern a couple seasons ago.

Jeff

http://www.bosoxbanter.mlblogs.com

Guess I was right. I found this on ESPN.com:

….Nineteen players were selected off Triple-A rosters, including three by the Philadelphia Phillies. Players chosen in the draft must stay on the 25-man major league roster with their new club all season or be offered back to their old team for $25,000.

right but who is ELIGABLE to be drafted? I mean, can they just pick Ellsbury from us or something??

Not sure about that. I am certain that players on the 40-man roster cannot be selected, and Ellsbury is on the 40-man roster.

Here are the qualifications Jamie:

Any player that has played professional baseball for more than 3 years (or more than 4 years if signed at the age of 18 or younger) is eligible for the draft, provided he is not on a team’s 40-man roster. (The new Collective Bargaining Agreement approved after the 2006 season would extend those limits to 4 and 5 years, respectively.)

Jeff was pretty close on this one..You seem to know your baseball logistics Jeff..

Vince,

Im just curious about some of the comments you made. You said that Sox fans would blame it on injuries if; JD Drew, Mike Timlin, Josh Beckett, Eric Gagne, and Man-Ram all got injured. Obviously that would never happen. 5 players of that calibre? I think you are having a Steinbrenner dream.

And it is true we have better starters, you have us in the bullpen for now, but how can you believe that you have us beat in offense. You simply need to look at Boston’s likely batting order, and you will question that statement. And signing Matsuzaka would be a blunder? I think you are dreaming. Im hopeful of him dawning the Sox uniform, and mowin’ down the empire for years to come.

Bryan(Supporter from the North)

ebbie??? regarding your “dirt dawg bit the dust” comment.. I ‘ll give up the day that Trot retires… so YOU can get over THAT!!! He his given his all for the Boston RedSox and the Nation more consistantly than almost anybody else in the past 6-8,9 years.. I’m entitled to my opinion just as you are.. But we all know what opinions are likened to. and Yours is right there.

Actually, unless you post a site that says otherwise, Lilly’s agent said lilly was considering the yankees or the cubs BECAUSE they were contenders. He chose the cubs, I don’t know, maybe because THEY MADE HIM AN OFFER. That makes sense right?

Bryan I was alluding to what happened to the sox last year. It is also not far fetched that drew, beckett and gagne were all injured considering they have spentt he last three years mostly injured. Manny was a cheap shot at quitting last year and timlin was also injured last year and a period in 2004. Not so far fetched now is it?

How can I believe we beat you on offense? We’re better at 7, at max 6 positions offensively and last year had better numbers. If you think drew and lugo are going to somehow magically make your lineup superior you’re crazy. There is no way, that worst case scenario, the sox don’t have an even lineup.

I was looking on baseballprospectus and it also said the yankees offense has the highest VORP of any team in baseball, in case you needed a technical fact rather than logic.

BTW, the offensive argument is when you consider full strength. People forget a rod had 13 hrs and 30 rbi less than the year before last year too. We also were without matsui, and had cano out for 6 weeks (100 rbi and .340 hitter respectively)….I don’t think I’m being ignorant in lineupcomparisons.

the yankees wanted lilly. no, they didn’t make him an offer and the cubs did. that’s why he is a cub now and not a yankee. if the nyy wanted lilly, making an offer would be prerequisite to signing a player, wouldn’t you think?, no sarcasm intended. why didn’t they? can you answer that? so on to pettitte. supposedly the nyy have offered andy $14-$16 for one year and maybe open to a second year option, true or not, i don’t know, and probably neither do you. in any event, i havent checked the mlb site in the past several hours so it may have changed, but as far as i know ny has not been able to sign pettitte either. the only major new agreement i scanned was bonds was offered $16 million by sf and he took it! pettitte hasn’t signed with ny. i know mine is not the only suspiscion that andy and roger both have every intention of returning to houston to finally bring their hometown astros a ring and both are throwing the “yankees are interested” leveraging thing in to (1) drive up houston’s offer and to (2) encourage the astros to continue adding to the astros roster to give them the very best chance to reach the playoffs and beyond. the astros have a real chance to win it all this year. the yankees have been in a position to win it all for the past several years. who would you sign with? i know what your answer always is, but i’m asking andy and roger, and i know what their answer is going to be also, at least i would think. we’ll see won’t we?

Aww, i’m sorry you lose. Andy signs with the Yankees, I guess the big bad sinking new york team isn’t such a bad place to come home to after all, now is it? Like I said, they wanted Pettitte, they didn’t want Lilly, it changed when they figured out Pettitte was coming back to play again, hence why they never made the offer to Lilly.

Now I ask you, if clemens comes back this year, where do YOU think it will be? Exactly. Nice try though.

you know…i really dont see where the yankees are a better hitting team…we have more speed, way more power, and with a healthy season from crisp and others we should have a better hitting average. Your speed lies with aging jeter and damon, we have the young crisp and lugo, your power is with arod and giambi, two big ifs…we have manny papi et all. maybe if giambi decides to cheat again you might reach half our power. actually we have you across the board with the possible exception of the closer. we will have that too if we get a healthy gagne. pettite doesnt scare anyone, he’s injured more then nixon, and when he’s healthy he gets about one good start every 2-3 starts you can have him. I highly doubt the rocket will sign in corporate land for his last season, he will either go out at home, or in his old home. was anyone interested in pettite besides the yanks and the astros???

d reinbold…FYI, Jeter is 32 yrs old, since when is that “aging” considering JD Drew and Papi are less than a year younger, oh, and Manny is 34..he must be ancient. You talk of giambi and a-rod being ifs, two proven all stars, with Arod a 2 time MVP. I am not sure if you realized the sentence prior where you mentioned a healthy season from Crisp?? You can’t be serious? In his best year in the MLB he had 69 RBIS, which obviously wasn’t last year, where he contributed to a ******** 36 RBIS….It looks like The red sox are doing a pretty good job of becoming “corporate land”, where your paying a guy 70 million who has had one 500+ at bat season in 9 YEARS…Lets think before we type next time

A-Rod is proven when his team has a six run lead and Giambi needs someone to play first, so he can DH. And how many World Series rings do A-Rod and Giambi have…O? They charge a world series price tag and give an AL East division title in return.

had i known houston would diss pettitte and his agent or both by refusing to come within $4 million next year and $20 million over the next two, not even wanting him a second year, i would have been hesitant in doubting whether andy would “take the money and run” in either ny or hoboken. so would i. but taking the money and running when ny guaranteed $32 million to houston’s $12 million (surprise!) was no indication that andy believes ny is any better a city than a number of other locales to win him another ring. au contraire! it boiled down to pettitte and Hendricks having their pride hurt to the point where they had to “get out of town” and leave the entire state of texas! wow! what a diss. i believe, d rein, that pettitte inc. claim the rangers and cardinals were also interested, but that’s just damaged pride and agent talk. no contract was offered by either, so you can take that with a grain of salt. my next post, rather than run it into this one, will quote pettitte’s agent and astros gm explaining why pettitte is coming to ny, why it has nothing to do with andy believing his chances are better there, and why, even though a broken clock is right at least twice every day, my detractor is wrong, again!

the following excerpts are from an article appearing earlier today on the astros’ mlb website. the story is by mlb reporter alyson footer who apparently scooped everybody and broke the pettitte signing story: “…the contract is worth $16 million plus a player option for 2008 at the same amount. ‘we told the astros we would do the same deal at $14 (million)’, (agent randy) hendricks said. ‘ they had been stuck on $12 (million) and essentially said, ‘take it or leave it! the aborted (jon) garland trade proves they had no intention of increasing their offer. so there was nothing more to wait for except a decision by andy, which he made this afternoon.’ the astros wanted pettitte back but not at the price of a second-year player option, which takes the control out of the club’s hands. hendricks said that pettitte would not pick up the option if he was hurt, but general manager tim purpora wasn’t buying it. ‘that’s nonsense,’ purpora said. ‘the (players) union would never let them do that. that’s a misrepresentation. from a club point of view, that’s a two-year deal. with one year with a player option, (pettitte) gets to decide what’s going to happen. from a club’s standpoint, it’s a two-year deal. you have to look at it as a $28-million commitment.’ ” so much for advertising this signing as andy loving to come to new york because he loves the nyy so much(wrong!)(try again!), or that he thinks they have the better chance to go all the way(wrong!)(try again), or that pettitte had identical offers and chose the nyy over the astros(wrong again!). the truth is: him feelings and him agent’s feelings am hurt. the preceding was brought to you out of a pure love of telling it like it is. FYI BTW boston is finding out this year that when you throw money around at players like rice at a wedding as the nyy do every year, you can get the better players, too. what a novel idea. anything else?

as far as whether the nyy’s odds are better now to entice clemens to ny now that andy is aboard, your guess is as good as anybody’s. i am positive about only one thing: it will boil down to who likewise offers roger the most “show me the money”. It’s not that roger or andy need the extra few million or are greedy! there’s the problem with inflation they have to consider. perhaps their progeny may have to buy baby a new pair of shoes centuries from now. and with politics and the world situation the way they are, who knows? maybe they might need to buy the state of texas and form their own country. maybe they could buy all the teams and let them take turns winning. that would be a monopoly and collusion which congress can’t condone, but nyy fans can dream that such a fantasy could be acted out. it’s the only scenario i know of where one could guarantee that the nyy will ever win another world series. in favor of the nyy signing roger: they will shell out the money. not in favor of the nyy signing roger: the nyy probably wont let him fly in from houston every fifth day and probably wont let him wait until after the all star game to pitch. the yankees are funny that way. and how will they calibrate his pay in 2007? by the pitch? or by the hour?

I guess you seem to ignore the fact abreu steals more than 20 bases, a rod steals 20 bases, damon and jeter? Until they start showing their age you probably shouldn’t rely on it. Pettite has made 30+ starts for the last two years, tell me how he is injury proned and unreliable again. But GAGNE gagne is as good a closer as rivera, right? Do you not see how comparatively uneven you’re making this? I suppose your middle relief is better too? Considering you signed one player and your bullpen as an absolute mess last year. You have two power hitters, they hit 40+ hrs each, one in the 50′s. Giambi hit 40+ last year, a rod will hti 40+ this year, and matsui, damon, and abreu in yankee stadium are all capable of 20. Posada, jeter, and cano of 15. We certainly aren’t lacking in power. We might reach half your power?

sheffield and matsui were out most of the season, I don’t think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that was a minimum of 50 hrs missing. Now let’s compare, considering lugo is not a power hitter and drew is yet to be proven.

2006 yankees: 210

Redsox: 192

Would manny and ortiz have hit 68 hrs in the time they missed last year? I doubt it, what is that power comparison based on again? Maybe 2005?

2005 yankees:229

2005 redsox: 199

Or maybe 2004 you’re still dwelling on?

2004 yankees: 242

2004 Redsox: 222

So the last three years, including last year with two sluggers out of the lineup most of the season, the yankees hit more team homeruns and you claim if giambi used roids we would have HALF your power? Huh?

Clemens old home is the yankees, in case you forgot. That is where he actually won his rings.

“we have you beat across the board”

Uhh, ok, baseless facts are cool too.

Pettitte 2.80 era with houston (so you can discount his win loss record in offensiveless houston) after the asb and 60+ starts the last two years make him injury proned and inconsistant, i love it.

While were at it, let’s go to those other comments too. I showed you what you meant to say about power, but how about stolen bases now?

2006 yankees: 139

2006 Redsox: 51

2005 Yankees: 84

2005 redsox:45

2004 yankees: 84

2004 redsox: 68

More speed….what? If you have it you certainly HATE using it. Here let me amend the statement for you. If you get 8 more lugo’s than you might actually get HALF of our stolen bases this season.

Finally, batting average. Now, ignoring the fact that crisp batting better guarantees a higher TEAM average considering youk is no longer a rookie and sophomores typically slump. And Lugo bats below your teams average, let me see:

2006 Yankees: .285

2006 redsox: .269 (oh wait, lugo’s .277 might actually help)

2005 yankees: .276

2005 redsox:.281

WOW you almost proved something. Two years ago you had a higher team average, too bad last year you didn’t.

So again, how do you have a higher average (assumptions included) more homeruns (in reality many less) and more speed (where is that evident)?

Would anybody like to challenge this whole redsox have the better offense thing again? Because you’re really striking out here.

Numbers don’t lie. And in the stats column the Yankees have every advantage…didja forget 26 to 6. C’mon ya gotta throw that one in for good measure…

But you know what with all those numbers there’s still one thing: why do the Yankees worry about the Sox sooooo much? I mean if the Evil Empire can dominate in all the categories that you mentioned, then why sign Mike Myers? Hmmmm? In Torre’s words: to shut down Ortiz. Take up a roster spot to stop one player. And then trying to trade for Mirabelli?

When the Yankees aren’t busy worrying about the Sox, they are trying to recreate the Sox magic. Yeah signing guys like Bellhorn, Embree, and Damon. Damon. There’s a great topic. Sure he was the catalyst and great to have in the clubhouse. When he was in a Sox uniform, all we heard was how lame of an arm he had, he had good speed when he gets on base, is an average center fielder, etc. Now that the George writes the check, Michael Kay and the rest of the Yankee broacasting team make him out to be the next DiMaggio. And let’s not forget Johnson. Hmmmm….the Sox did pretty well signing Schilling. Maybe we can sign his buddy from the Diamondbacks.

One stat that you forgot: 192…as in million. That’s how much your payroll was BEFORE you traded for Abreu. The Evil Empire SHOULD dominate. They spend the money to dominate. Thing is the Yankees have only dominated the regular season.

Something missing from the equation: 2004 ALCS, game four, bottom of the ninth, Yankees winning, and the greatest closer in the game on the mound. It was as if Bill Mueller was Dorothy because the Yankees melted like the wicked witch of the west.

Wait…wait…I hear something…year 2000…year 2000…year 2000…

Some thoughts on the Pettitte signing. How out of wack is the market. Here is a guy who is clearly aging, he’ll be 35 in June, his numbers are down, and he gets a one year 16 million. Look, I’m with jeff on this, its not my money, so who cares, I’d love him on the sox, but how can he be worth that money. Look at his numbers, in 2005 he had a real good year, started 33 games, pitched 222 innings, went 17-9 with a 2.39 ERA. 2006, no major injury that i’m aware of, he starts 35 games, he pitches 214 innings, and he has a 4.2 ERA IN THE NATIONAL LEAGUE, where your 7, 8, 9 batters are automatic outs on 75% of the teams, where you play in a division where you get to play Pittsburg, Cubs, and Milwaukee 19 times each! He also gave up 27 bombs. His strikeouts and walks are still pretty good, but again NATIONAL LEAGUE. In 2004 he only pitched 83 innings as he had that injury. Is he worth a one year flier for 16 million, maybe maybe not. From a Red Sox standpoint this is not the 21-8 1996 Andy Pettitte. So don’t sweat this guys. He’s an aging pitcher, whose numbers are falling, and I doubt if he’ll be anymore than 10-10 with 4.5 era. But you know what, on that yankee team, that is all they really need. I still believe Cashman out kicked his coverage on this one.

With regards to the yanks v sox offense numbers, I cringed when I read the comparison. I didn’t need the facts to know we lose that one everyday. The yankees are stacked top to bottom. But it is about the pitching if you can lower your team ERA by a half a point that is one less run you need to score. Look at the 05′ White Sox. They didn’t win by scoring runs (although the Cell gives up more Home runs than any park in the A.L) they won because of pitching. In 06, they had an arguably better offensive team with Thome added and Crede and Dye having breakout years, but the pitching was not there. That lets you slug yourself to 90 wins and gets you a front row seat with popcorn included to watch the playoffs.

I love this shhhhh t, okay lets add another 30 for wmp, and 25 for jd, 20-25 for lowell on top of manny and ortiz. we will beat you in the hr catagory next year. a knob is not going to get 40, incase you didnt notice, he’s a fragile handle with care lost boy. Damon’s also getting up thier and his limp arm is only getting limpier. legs older…I think crisp and lugo can reach 60 between them maybe more. and yes we might just have lester and wake in the pen making our middle relief way better then yours. quit stating old stats, lets do some projections instead. manny, ortiz, wmp & drew…i see 140 between those 4, 20 fom lowell, 15-20 from varitek, 15 from youk…man you cant beat that stuff, you have to rely on a juicer and a frail arod for most of your output.
sox hands down this year in that cat. for sure. I like and would take our line-up over yours anyday. pettite seems to have missed more games, i was following the rocket man over the past 3 seasons, and it seemed pettite was always out for one reason or another. Ill have to check that noise out myself. still better then your current no. 2 guy moose, so an upgrade for sure, but not one im afraid of. I think we can hammer all your starters. you cant say the same. And if gagne was 100% healthy, i think he’s better then your old guy riv. mute point until signed.

I know but we need to get gagne!! I agree with you on the pitching side.

lol, “Our offense is better than yours across the board”

“Let’s not look at stats, how about some projections”

Are you seeing a slight issue with that ideology?

What “board” do you speak of? The board of best case scenarios for the sox and worst case for the yankees? You want to debate something you either look at stats in baseball, or you have two guys who are so clearly not going to agree on “projections”. Projection is euphemism for “assumption” and I think we all know the rule about “assumption”.

Once again, somebody brings up offense, I defend offense and then they cry about pitching. How do the two relate? Did I say the yankees were superior in this upcoming season? No, we argued offense, then starting pitching comes up and some absolutely bogus argument about the bullpen.

Yes, wily mo pena will hit 30 hrs off your bench, that makes a lot of sense. And I forgot Crisp has an absolute cannon, my mistake. “Aknob” is not going to get 40? Why, because he had 35 last year in his worst season ever and 48 the year before? Tell me, why, why won’t he get 40, what could you possibly point to to state there is no chance a guy who usually hits 45-55 hrs will not hit 40? His worst season of his career he hits 35. This is where assumptions get you.

And I hope to god you mean stolen bases when you talk about Lugo and Crisp. Lugo and crisp will be extremely fortunate to hit 30 hrs between the two of them. When you can point out somewhere, anywhere on a major league level that they hit 30 hrs each between them, then that might have a scent of credibility.

Lester and Wake (Wake who’s age is never a factor btw, nor was his injury last year, though any yankee above the age of 32 is weakening in every part of their body) will make your bullpen better than ours? Umm, yeah, I suppose tavarez in relief was superior too and he will anchor the middle relief. Oh wait, as a spot starter in september he pitched well, let’s cancel what happened the rest of the season when the redsox mattered.

A juicer and frail a rod for most out our homeruns? So 2 players who put out most production is a problem for you? How about a juicer and a guy who never actually wants to play for your team? Frail A rod, has two mvps, one with the yankees, how many does ortiz and manny have combined again? Oh wait, ortiz got robbed and that steroid thing, oh that is a can of worms isn’t it. No conceivable way that a man of that size with that offensive caliber in a righties park could possibly use ‘roids. What a weak argument, roids are the salem witch trials of the 21st century, we don’t know who uses them so drop it. “stop stating old stats” no i’d rather state non existance ones from my own mind, that makes me win the argument.

Yes D rein, check Pettitte the last two years (a longer time healthy than beckett and as long as schilling), please tell me how his 200 innings and 30+ starts made him injured. Do they extend the season for redsox fans? You mean you’re going to look into something? You’re actually going to look up stats for your argument, well now I am ecstatic.

And Fagan, Abner, whoever you are today, year 2000? You are so creative. Dwelling in the yankees past, dwelling in the redsox past, have you aged since 2004? The Yankees prepare for the sox because the sox are a rivalry and consistantly finish right below us every year, except for last year. Would you ignore a team almost as good as you? I didn’t think so.

Why did you sign vazquez last year? Is he a lefty specialist? Oh that’s right, yes he is, guess what we did? We signed a lefty specialist? Guess what he did? After the first two at bats, shut down ortiz in the clutch. Mission accomplished. A lefty specialist is aquired for dominant lefty hitters, why is it ok for you to get one but all of a sudden we’re stealing your “style” to sign one? The yankees have been searching for a lefty specialist for about four years now and they finally found one. Not my fault you self destructed your champion team.

Oh and the payroll argument. I really, really, did not intend on seeing that one THIS offseason. 51.1 million. Tell me, what has that gotten you thus far? How is the signing going? five days to sign a contract, pass a physical, agree on everything, announce it….Cutting it a little close don’t you think?

Drew, Lugo, lol payroll argument. Go back to sleep Abner, you seemed to have taken a nap from august 2006 and just woke up yesterday.

60 hrs between lugo and crisp, cmon not likely. Red Sox took some chances and their line-up if healthy and hot are pretty explosive but consistantly ,nope. Projecting and dreaming or just wishfull thinking are two different things. We’ll have to see but I think u could tone down your projections a little and you would recieve a little more credibility

lol and Connor, I reacted the same way when I read a five year contract to an injury proned national league lifer that has never reached his potential in his late 20′s. I’m not even going to get into the money he was given.

I may need to do a little foot in mouth on my Pettitte analysis. I started looking at his stats, he sure did have a great second half. I even tried to ball park and opponent it out and gave up after a half an hour. Houston got hot in Mid Sept. but still only finished the month 15-12. But I guess the argument is that you play the entire season. I’d much rather be screaming he slumped at the end. Either way, too much money but if 2007 is how he finished up 2006, great sign.

Hi all,
May I interject here? You need to understand the psyche of Sox fans. We are, by nature, a little quixotic. Comes with 86 years of dry spell. So all the stats, all the logic is largely lost on us. Every year is our year in the spring, we always believe. We don’t care about the stats that say otherwise. We have the idea, like the old song, “To be willing to march into h/ell for a heavenly cause.”

So every time you put up the #’s, we see that and think,”We’re better”, so you’re gonna be frustrated if you throw logic our way.

’07 will be our year, you’ll see. And that is the way we all think and always will.

Well said, arnie.

lol Arnie, as long as every sox fan understands that, and doesn’t try to impede on the Yankees, then I really don’t mind. Nice citing of Man a la mancha btw, good musical.

there is a difference between thinking you’re team is wonderful and putting down others though, and if you feel the need to insult another team, perhaps a shred of logic could go a long way in defending your own.

yankeescorekeeper@yahoo.com/orjohnnybobster@yahoo.com or whoever you are today, say what? so much time on your hands. and so many words. when i scrolled down to read the lastest posts today, and passed a couple of yours, i thought i was tracing the amazon and the nile rivers. on.and on.and on. without any substance and nothing new. same arguments regurgitated over and over and over. same stats for the millionth time. in fact, didn’t you win every single argument you had on here last season, or at least in your own mind, and your team still lost. are you trying to repeat for the seventh consecutive year? my money is on you! instead of trying to guess who is getting the better of you, try sticking to substance. and a lot less sarcasm would do you a lot of good. a bit of kidding now and then is okay but there is no need for that on here. notice you havent responded to my comments about what truthfully attracted andy to the yankees and what you have to do to pair him up with roger. i also have the quote claiming ted lilly would not have gone back to the yankees even if the nyy offered the same pay the cubs did. want to read it? i’ll probably post it anyway. and finally, “lets think before we type next time.”–johnny bobster anything else?

aww, Fagan is in self destruct mode again. Is this where you come when you need your attention because the yankee blog completely ignores you now and you can’t get kicks by irritating anybody because you are non existant?

Poor little baby. Same arguments? Like how you always say the same thing about anything I type, regurgitate the year 2000, redefine your own quotes so you’re actually right, call people meaningless names and claim somehow the sox were more successful than the yankees last season? You poor little boy, you’re not getting your fill?

i havent called anyone names nor have i posted anything about nyy success versus sox success last year. where are you getting this? and again a little less sarcasm and insulting everybody would do your act a lot of good. that isnt necessary and makes me take you less seriously. you need all the good advice you can get. seriously. again, lets think before we type next time, please, johnny bobster. thanks.

AWWWW jeez, what is this?? here we go again?? and just when I was really gonna post.

Hey Vince, how everything going?? With all the classes. you’ve got to be ready for the break. Getting ready to come home for the holiday??

I saw a post from paul on Mark F.’s blog yesterday ( I really enjoy Mark’s wit!!), and I know that I just violated one of the rules, but.. it’s really good advice for a blog problem. Did anyone else happen to click on the link?? I thought it was really great advice.

as promised. “on wednesday afternoon, the yankees were one of two teams in the running for the services of ted lilly. by wednesday night, lilly had agreed to a four year, $40 million deal with the cubs, leaving andy pettitte as the yankees’ top pitching target’…(lilly agent Larry o’brien said)’… even if brian’ (cashman, nyy general manager) ‘would have committed and the numbers had been identical, ted is probably still a cub. at the end of the day, ted really thinks they have a great opportunity to go from last to first. detroit did it, why not chicago?’ ” excerpted from a yankees.com breaking news story 12/6/6 filed by mlb reporter mark feinsand / why not the chicago cubs indeedy do? they haven’t won the world series since 1908? a longer drought than the red sox. although the yankee drought is not nearly as long (so far, that is) as boston and the cubs, successful major league players see a better opportunity to rest their future fortunes with a number of other less storied franchises that the high and dry bronx bombers, who have had the players to have won it all since 2001, and what do they have to show? nothing! many baseball people feel jeter, posada, williams, rivera, the core of a once successful franchise, after repeatedly choking and having fallen on hard times, have become so disheartened and frustrated at their constant monumental failure that none of these past winners present big time losers any more believe they can win another world series. sad but true. read ‘em and weep. any other questions?

the only blog problem tonight is the two of you. why cant you just let it lie. that’s what trot would do.

Well, since no one else is here now, I guess that I’ll sign of for now…. G’Night Nationers, and everyone else as well!! See you later!

sorry, i obviously meant 60 steals not home runs between lugo and crisp. just had my fingers flying to get a reaction out of mr. yankee..lol his comments make me laugh my *** off every time. i meant that in a good way, although ill stick by my guns on the more home run thing. and if arod gets anymore fragile then he did last year they will be taking him out in a straight jacket.

D rein if a rod becomes any more fragile (assuming at the age of 32 he is no longer in his prime which I doubt), he will be traded. Many in the system thought he would be traded this year, so if his numbers suffer more (which remember he also hit 48 hrs the year before so there is nothing to point to to say he can’t get it done in ny) he will definitely be traded.

Lugo and crisp are certainly capable of 30 steals but boston has never been a base stealing team in my lifetime. They certainly did not utilize having roberts who could steal 60 by himself until 2 games in the playoffs.

lol You have a lot of work to do in the homers whether a rod hits 35 again or even 25, I don’t think you’re quite crediting the fact every player on the team is capable of going on a homerun spree.

Johnny Bobster? You are a waste of everybodies time and like I said, lecturing anything on credibility when you cannot maintain one identity is just wasting your time. Worry about signing matsuzaka and not being the laughingstock of international baseball before you lecture us on landing a 4 starter that we replaced with a better pitcher anyway.

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=171334&format=&page=1

Ellen I’m fine, right in the heart of finals. Knocked off two papers last night, a newscast the night before and I have two more to do today and then three tests to study for for the next three days. Fun stuff. I also have back spasms which I don’t really understand so moving is painful.

your back isnt the only place you’re spasming out. if you got off your computer stool and got some exercise it might help immensely. i know it would help everybody else. we don’t need dmat now we have lester. again think before you type. ok, johnny bobster? anything else? I didn’t think so!

if it’s any consolation to trot fans, which i also happen to be, i heard on either espn or fox sports talk radio yesterday that nixon is very interested in returning to the red sox at anytime in the future even as a role player and certainly in some post career position because he is a big boston fan through and through. perhaps somewhere in the front office, scouting or instruction, or public relations. reportedly the red sox are likewise fond of trot and encourage his return if any possible position becomes feasible in the future.

lets go pats and giants. and i’m out to watch.

lol yes, lester will certainly equal matsuzaka. A man who throws will into 100+ pitches compared to a guy who can barely escape the 5th inning coming off of a life threatenind disease with a whip around 2.00. That’ll show me.

Yeah VInce, I read that article earlier too and I am not really concerned that talks broke down. This possibly could be a good thing because overall, it damages Boras as an agent. You can imagine the Siebu Lions being pretty upset that Boras probably couldn’t lower his offer and now the Lions get none of that $51.1 million. To be honest, I don’t feel that Matsuzaka is worth $15 mil a year because he has never thrown a pitch in the Majors, much less the AL East. I would have given him around at most $11 million, which sure, isn’t market value, but the kid has got to prove himself before getting the big bucks. Hot pitching prospects don’t get big money until they can prove themselves. Heck, Papelbon proved that he can pitch at the Major league level, and he is getting nowhere near $15 million a year. Just because this guy owned everyone in the WBC and has shown great success in Japan doesn’t mean much to me. Jeff Weaver and Jeff Suppan were dominant in the postseason but don’t tell me for one second that they are dominant pitchers. Overall, it hurts the sox simply because they didn’t get one of the moust highly touted pitchers this offseason, but only that. The sox didn’t lose anything per se. I think this hurts Boras the most once again because I don’t think the sox will be scrutinized for not giving up the big bucks for an unproven (MLB Unproven) prospect and Boras will be for being stubborn and asking for too much. And thank goodness for once Boras doesn’t get what he wanted for his client. Maybe its a reality check for this greedy guy..

I would agree with you, except your own bid of 51.1 million set the precedent (sp) of what the feeling of Matsuzaka’s value should be. You can’t talk out of both sides of your mouth (boston fo, not you as an individual), you can’t say this man is worth a ridiculous bid and then lowball him a contract, especially not with boras as an agent.

Oh and for the boy that said nobody likes playing in NY

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=2692259

Apparently, you’re living about 20 years in the past. And that is written by gammons a self proclaimed sox fan. lol and where is jamie? Take note of that sanchez comment.

Well I don’t think the bid was nearly the precedent setter the Red Sox have been making it out to be. Even if it was $41 million, everyone would be expecting an outrageous contract. Plus anyone who feels the sox bid that high just because they thought Matsuzaka was worth it is wrong. Everyone who has half a brain knows the bid was that high in part so that the Yankees wouldn’t get him. I don’t believe this “It wasn’t about the Yankees” BS Theo keeps feeding everyone. Plus I don’t feel that offering a 26 year old guy who has never thrown a pitch in the Majors $8 million a year is “lowballing” him. Lowballing was the sox setting Damon’s value at $40 million. Damon is a proven winner, a proven guy in the clutch, and has a heart for the town of Boston. Lowballing was when the sox pushed Clemens out of town (I don’t remember what they offered him) and then he stabbed them in the back by going to Toronto and putting up back to back 20 win seasons. If the sox rolled out a 4 year $32 million contract to Papelbon right now, everyone would be going “What are they thinking.” Its the same thing. This was just another example of Boras asking too much for his players. A-rod is a great player who produces runs (maybe not so much in the clutch) but regardless he’ll give you at least 35 HR and 100+ rbi’s, but there is no way in **** he is worth a quarter of a billion dollars. Manny gives you that at much less. Vlad gives you that at much less (Plus one of the best guns in the game) Pujols gives you taht for much less. But regardless, I still feel the sox rotation will be pretty good this year:

Schilling = 17 wins

Beckett = 17 wins

Papelbon = 13 wins

Wakefield = 15 wins possibly (If he’s confidant in throwing to a different catcher)

(Insert 5th starter) = about 12 wins.

Then give some spot starters about 5-7 wins total, and the bullpen around 10 wins.. and the sox are at 90 wins.

Plus our offense has upgraded from last year, considering now we have a great 5th hitter in Drew, pending his health the whole season, which I think he will be because WMP could fill in around once a week for him to keep drew fresh. Like I have been saying all offseason, the sox don’t need to spend lavishly to win. We have a team that is WS capable already.

right, what i’m saying is offering that outrageous bid is not boras asking too much, it is the sox disabling their ability to give matsuzaka what would be a normal offer of 7 or 8 a year. By offering this much money in a bid to the lions you imply he is worth that. I understand it was to block the yankees but now sox fans will have to live with the fact they prob will not get matsuzaka. Beckett 17 wins?, I think between schilling and beckett you will prob get more like 30 then 34, but even if you want to say 34, I agree with papelbon 13, and 5 starter 12, but no way wake gets you 15. Even if he came back at full strength and didn’t miss a beat by being a year older, his run support is terrible no matter who is in that lineup, he will get more like what the 5 starter does. I don’t doubt the sox win 90 games, they may even win 93 or 94, you guys are certainly playoff caliber, the question is will you be squeezed out by overachieving teams taking a playoff spot.

Have the angels made any signings yet? I feel like that al west is wide open right now, it could actually be texas’ year finally.

Yeah, well I think what we have concluded was that the Matsuzaka posting was a mess and bust by all parties involved. And sure Beckett can get 17 wins..he had 16 last year and I’m sure he can make enough adjustments to get one more win. Beckett intrigues me because if he was more humble and allowed Varitek to call his game which would equate to less reliance fo his fastball, he can be a 20 win pitcher, but its almost as if he refuses to believe that his fastball is not good enough to be an out pitch. Last year when he relied on his curveball more, he thrived, yet he did that for only around 5 games it seems. This is why I would be an advocate for overpaying for Roger..he can teach Beckett and Papelbon (Who both idolize him) how to win and just rely all their pitches. Sure it would be an expensive investment, the payoff could be huge in the future..just some food for thought.

As for the angels, they brought in Spier (stacking the best bullpen in the game even more) and brought in Gary Matthews. But other than that, its the same ol’ angels. I see Texas and Oakland duking it out down the stretch..

We’re thinking along the same lines. I want Clemens to tutor hughes/sanchez if even for a month. Moose, clemens, pettite, johnson, mo and guidry on one team might make our pitchers superhuman.

I also agree with u on the west.

I think you’re lowballing our pitchers. Sox’ offense will be better, barring injuries, and if Schilling and Beckett won 16 last year, did Schilling?, then they should be able to go for 18 or so this year. Knowing you’ll get some runs helps the confidence. Wake 14 if he has a good year. Papelbon is a question mark in one way, but the dude can flat out pitch, so I say he will make the adjustments and get some wins- 15/16 maybe. Lester, sad to say, I feel like he may struggle if he comes back at all. Chemo is a tough row to hoe and he may need one year off to compete at the major league level. A year to get his strength back. I hope not. D-Mat is not out of the running yet. Usually when one side “leaks” to the press, or however they came up with the story, it is for one of 2 reasons. Either to spook the other side into yeilding something or to bring both sides together. A little jolt of reality–”We could blow this!” I think all 3 sides, Boras, D-mat and the Sox have too much to lose by letting this deal NOT get done. If Boras can’t get the deal done, he is not as good an agent as his reputation suggests. D-Mat will be embarrassed. The Sox lose credibilty. So I think they’ll cobble together a deal at the last minute. Then he can win 25 games for us and we take the Series!!!

Am I all alone here? Bloggers? Anyone?

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