Tough loss

No, I am not referring to last night’s Red Sox-Yankees game, but today’s annual Boston-New York media game.

I’m proud to say it was a highly competitive game. We took a 4-2 loss on the fabled lawn of Yankee Stadium, but we’re in it the whole way. In fact, we were winning 2-1 entering the bottom of the fifth and wound up out-hitting our New York brethren, 7-3.

Unlike last year’s debaccle, when we made 10 errors in a 15-0 loss, there was just one error in this one and it didn’t lead to any runs.

Let me first say that if I had an MVP award today, it would go to Mike Salk of 890 AM in Boston. Mike hit the ball hard in all 3 plate appearances and had two hits to show for it. He also took an extra base on a throw back to the infield, which wound up enabling him to score on a sac fly. Mike has a disability with his left hand, so he does the Jim Abbott thing with his glove in the outfield. He really has it down pat, switching the glove over and throwing the ball quickly back to the infield.

It’s inspirational to see that kind of thing. A lot of people in his position wouldn’t want to play in a game like this, but Mike not only played ,but played probably better than anyone on our team today.

If I had a second star, it would be a tie between our two pitchers, — Bill Kulik of the Spanish Baseball Network and Rob Bradford of the Herald. The game was at a very sensitive point as Bradford, who did an excellent job in a starting role, got into a nasty jam in the bottom of the fifth. I believe Kulik inherited a bases loaded, nobody out jam and really minimized the damage. We could have gotten crushed that inning, and he kept the game manageable.

Other players who really deserve mention: Mike Petraglia, our always able catcher, who shrugged off two borderline called strikeouts and got a hit and his third at-bat, and per usual, did a great job behind the dish. Ken Powtak, a free-lancer from the Associated Press. He’s been battling immense pain in his back and probably shouldn’t have played. But he did, starting at third base and playing well on both sides of the ball. Uri Berenguer, Boston’s radio broadcaster on the Spanish network, played a strong game also, morphing into Roberto Alomar at second base. We should hardly mention when he was caught stealing third during a pivotal rally, but sometimes you need to take a chance if you want to win.

At that point, New York had relieved starter Tyler Kepner (NY Times) with their most dominant pitcher, Bob Klapisch of the Bergen Record. Klapisch has been known to pitch in semi-pro leagues and has a fastball that has, at least in the past, has touched  80. I didn’t get any fresh radar gun readings today. He also has a nasty slider. Klapisch  got Tyler out of trouble and came through with the save.

From a personal standpoint, I played OK. I hit a soft grounder to third against Kepner in my first at-bat, but the always nimble Jack Curry made a nice play. In my second AB, it started bad as a the first pitch — which was a foot outside — was called a strike. I have to admit I wasn’t mentally right for the rest of that at-bat. But in my final AB, leading off the last inning, the first thing I did was tell the umpire he called a great game. I was trying to play the psychology  game. First pitch was over the outside corner for a called strike. Second pitch, I belted straight back for a foul. Third pitch was right on the black and the umpire literally had his right hand poised, but then held it back. The catcher said, "You owed him one from last at-bat." Next pitch was a ball low. Then, on 2-2, I got pretty good aluminum on the ball, but right at second base, and I was thrown out by a couple of steps. Oh well.

I played the whole game in right field and only one ball was hit to me. I didn’t get a very good jump on it, and it was an RBI double over my head. I must say it’s not easy to judge a flyball when you play two baseball games a year.

But all in all, a fun day of baseball. I think the only right way to top it off is to get some Sushi at my favorite Japanese restaurant in New York, Raku on 47th Street.

More from the Stadium later.

Ian.

106 Comments

haha you’re insane, Ian.

Was it slow pitch or all out blazing fastballs? I’d imagine it tough for a beat writer to hit an 80 MPH fastball. Any near misses on homeruns? Which NY media member was the best? More play by play, please!

ha ha, it’s fast pitch, as hard as you can hit them. i’d say klapisch was probably in the 70s today. back in his youth, he could crank it in there. best NY players are Jack Curry, NY Times, Tom Verducci, Sports Illustrated, Anthony McCarron, NY Daily News. They have some other good ones too such as John Harper, NY Daily News and some others I’m forgetting.

You should call cheating, Verducci played outfield for the Blue Jays for that day, that’s some sort of loss of amateur status or something.

ha ha, good point!

Here’s hoping the sox bats show up tonight against moose. I’m thinking it’s important to win atleast 1/3 of this set, otherwise the yanks could go on a rampage. They have the Rocket coming back soon too. Might be just what they needed to stay 8-9 back for the balance of the season instead of 15-20…lol I’m thinking this is the type of stage Tavarez likes, with some support from the troops im calling this one a sox victory. Not really sure what to expect from Schilling tomorrow. Hopefully the extra rest will produce the ace of our staff. Heard about the bad loss of Pawtucket’s, I see Delcarmen has turned it around from that point, but how has Hansen done?

Agreed, the Red Sox definitely need to quell this little uprising by the Yankees and their fans alike with a W tonight. After picking up one game in the standings last night, Yankee fans all around me seem convinced that the second coming of Jesus has arrived in order to help them overcome this 9 and 1/2 game deficit by the end of the month. Frustrating but amusing.

There’s nothing I would love more than for Tavarez to keep it close for 6 innings then let the bullpen shut the Yanks down the rest of the way and hope for the bats to get hot. Big game from Manny tonight, I’m calling it. He should have absolutely parked that fastball from Farnsworth last night in the 9th but instead got jammed a little and still flew out to deep center.

What is Verducci doing playing for the Yankee team? lol, I didn’t know he exclusively wrote for the New York market, I mean he played for the Jays and umped a game between the O’s and Sox. I guess playing an exibihition game for the Yanks evens it all out.

Anyhoo, here’s to a solid win tonight, I feel our best shot is tomorrow but if we can pull tonight’s out it makes Schill’s game easier. I was also wondering how long it had been, prior to last night, that the Yanks made up a full game in the standings, it feels like forever. d rein is absolutely right, we cannot allow them to sweep us, because they will have tons of momentum and confidence beating the best team in baseball (record-wise). I still feel 7.5 is ton of games and with these 2 not meeting again until late August after the June series I believe we will maintain our comfortable first place lead throughout the summer.

To answer my own question, after a quick lookup the last time they made up a game on us was May 5th (Kentucky Derby Day), when the Sox lost to the Twinkies and the Yanks beat the Mariners. That is a looooong time. Lets hope it doesn’t happen tonite!

oh ya, and i’m also thinking a well placed ball near or at the groin area of one, jonnie “D”fector would be cool to see…..go-sox-go tavarez!

Wow, somebody on this blog is a prophet, 3 run jack Manny!

Maybe last night woke up a Sleeping Manny.

Mussina jumped the shark.

MANNY HAMMERS ONE TO RIGHT IN SUPPORT OF HIS GOOD BUDDY AND STARTING PITCHER TAVAREZ…YES!!..OOOOPS CAP LOCK’S ON, sorry! 1-2-3 Tavarez 1rst, sweet!

Very nice call on Manny, zachary. Although it would have been a bigger stretch if you had said someone like Coco. (FYI- Coco will come alive tonite or tomrrow, I’m calling it.) Plus 6 up 6 down for Joolian. I like it, keep it up Sox.

Isnt it about time mr. drew started chipping in???

6 up 6 down, looking good, gotta take my daughter to her soccer game….hope to come back to a good result! GO-SOX!

Greetings all Nationers, Vince and everyone!! My computer has ben very picky as to which sites it’s letting me get to. (Jeff, I still can’t get into the fantasy section of Yahoosports, bummer) How’s my team doin?? Are we in last yet??
Anyway, it’s good to be here after about 6 days. I’m so excited about how the Guys are playing!!.. And we all know how bad it tastes when we have to eat crow, but here I go. I think that I was very wrong about Tavarez. I think that he’s done an incredible job.

I hope we keep kicking bhutt!!! LET’S GO REDSOX LET’S GO!!!

Soccer’s nice too, d_reinbold, but you did miss a Lowell dinger !!! And a wild pitch by Tavarez. 4-1.

Hey, someone was commenting about the “****’s Sporting Goods” commercial… I don’t mind it so much except for the Yankee fan.. How come he’s in there twice??? LOL

Hi ellen, you weren’t that wrong about Tavarez. He’s made some adjustments. He’s like 2 pitchers in one body. A good one and a not so good one.

We’re getting the good one tonight.

So far.

5.2IP, 3H 4BB 2K 2R 2ER… not bad. :d

27 ribbies from our leadoff man ! And Youk does it too !!!!!!!!

Just a curiosity, why couldn’t we flip-flop Lowell and JD in the batting order?

6-2 Sox….Mike Mussina has a 6.21 era. This is sweet poetic justice. He along with Carl Pavano were both too arrogant to even consider pitching for the Sox. I am glad for the choice they made…Go Sox!!

I just can’t say enough about how these guys once again have remembered the definition of the term TEAM WORK. There is a true chemistry here, one guy falls a little short, the next guy steps his game up some. YEAH!!!

my mistake…..6.52 era for the Moose thanks to former Red Sock….Mike Myers. Notice how small ball leads to big ball.

Just read that it’s Julian’s birthday today. He turns 34– and this would be his 34th career win as a starter!

Very nice job by Javy Lopez, he needs to stay on this team, let Romero go for all I care. It is so encouraging to have 2 righties (Paps/Donnelly) and 2 lefties (Oki/Lopez) who can dominate both lefties and righties.
And how bout Youk, this guy is on fire. Lets put him leadoff, and throw RBI man Lugo 2nd. Youk has no speed but his onbase is like .450

Well, rizzo, i tend to say : don’t fix it if it ain’t broken.
We have a nice 1-2 punch, let’s keep it that way !!!!!!!!!! LOL

Yeah your right, I guess my mindless blabber comes from a ho-hum 5 run lead in the 8th, lol

LOL.
Not to mention that Youk can bat runs in too, by blasting one inside Pesky pole at Fenway. He’s good at it. :)

Not cool AROD, throwing elbows at Pedroia.

I am not normally someone who counts the yanks out too soon but this is not the vaunted yankees teams of the past. I still believe that they can make this close but they’re problems are not just with pitching. The play by A-rod is either frustration or desperation.

that A-Rod play is one of frustration just like his “white glove ” slap during the playoffs!

Tonight is not the night for Jon-Bon to show his “human” side. Come on Paps!!!

I prefer his ” SUPER human ” side ! And by far !

Paps and Oki have definitely made this game way too interesting…

WHEW!!!!

GOOD JOB GUYS ! Back to a 10.5 game lead.

Sorry ’bout that Derek, but even if that 1st pitch that you questioned was off the plate (too close for me to call) that just about evens it out for the 2 (not quite a strike)calls we had by the Home Plate ump earlier in the game and the “elbow up” by ARod!!

2nd strike on Jeter definitely a strike, it caught the plate and you could read DJ’s lips he thought it was off the plate. 3rd strike questionable but too close to take with the game on the line.

I had the displeasure of watching the game on YES and Michael Kay still insists that Okajima’s original role on the team was to, and i quote, “hang out” with Matsuzaka. That being said, I really don’t mind Paul O’Neill and John Flaherty’s color commentary, pretty insightful and unbiased.

As for the A-Rod elbow, that’s baseball. He did what he had to do to break up the double play, can’t fault the guy for that if he didn’t get caught. There’s a big difference between changing your route on a slide to 2nd base and blatantly slapping the ball out of Arroyo’s glove.

Also, I noticed that Jeter rarely argues balls and strikes but was not pleased at the end of the game. Paps was painting that outside corner beautifully with 2-seamers and YES showed an overhead view of strike 3 to end the game and it was maybe an inch off the plate so way too close to take there DJ.

Solid game all around, save for JD Drew’s freefall into the .230’s. And I’d just like to thank Manny Ramirez for making me look good by crushing a 2-0 pitch for a HR and 3 RBI’s.

With all of the good things going, how about Big Papi? 4-5 with 3 RBI’s so far this series. I can’t imagine what it’s like to be a Yankee fan and watch him come up. Probably similar to how Sox fans used to feel with Sheffield.

Nice last 2 pitches by Papelbon to get Jeter. What’s even better is how ‘Tek framed those pitches. This is why even if he’s having a down year in batting, he’s just that good behind the plate.

Happy birthday to Tavarez with the win (and in general of course). He sure made it interesting, but even still, he kept the Yankees off the board and that’s always a plus :-)

J.D. needs to start hitting; Tito should put him 6th and bump up Lowell to 5th (like penwhale said earlier). Honestly, I feel like I’m eating crow at the moment, but at this point, if he gets hot the for the rest of the season after the All-Star break, I’ll take it. I can’t stand him completely failing at the plate. Then again, I’m sure making that NL to AL adjustment isn’t helping…I have my fingers crossed in hopes he does get better.

But hey, we won! No sweep for them Yanks! :-)

I can personally guarantee everyone that Drew will not be in the starting line-up tomorrow. At least we have that going for us. Wily Mo, come up big! Light a fire under Drew with some great play.

How bout those Celtics huh? I’m not a huge pro b-ball fan but those guys can’t catch a break! They were the odds-on favorite to get the 2nd pick and they end with number 5. The Ainge/Rivers project is getting closer and closer to demolition.

I hope that Wily-Mo contribues too Rayman, but against soft throwing Pettitte they may still stick with Drew since Wily Cerrano can’t touch a deuce.

That is crazy about the Celtics. I can now envision them either dealing Pierce, or dealing a couple young player and their pick for an impact veteran. They have to do something. They don’t need anymore young guys. They needed an immediate impact player like Oden or Durant, and now they need a key veteran to complement Pierce, or they just need to deal Pierce.

Regarding Wily Mo, no way should he play tomorrow. He would come out of his shoes against Pettitte. I do think Francona should consider switching Drew and Lowell in the lineup until Drew gets hot.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

Drew is 6-14 (.429) with 2 HR’s versus Pettitte, gotta leave him in the line-up and let him get his stuff together.

The guy hasn’t hit below .280 in the past 5 years, you have to believe he’s going to get it going sooner or later. With that being said, count me among the most frustrated with his recent struggles at the plate. If I have to see him roll over another weak grounder to second base, I think my head might explode.

Well I wouldn’t go as far as saying J.D. won’t be in the line up; he does have better numbers, but then again, that’s cause J.D. has more ABs than Pena against Pettitte.

Michael Kay has always been a knucklehead in my opinion. I somehow wasn’t getting cable for part of the night, so I had to watch on MY9 for a bit. I heard that and I just wanted to take a bat to my head to spare myself anymore pain, heh.

A-Rod did what he had to; break up a DP. We love to lambast him cause it’s A-Rod, but heck, I would’ve done it as well. It’s exactly as how Zachary said: big difference between now and the ’04 ALCS.

I was surprised Jeter didn’t even swing at the last called strike; at least foul it off man. No wonder his record against Papelbon is meh; I’m sure Papelbon LOVES it though :-)

the late challenge of Oki and Paps was interesting. I don’t have direct access to watch games, but was monitoring on Gameday; I thought the folks at ESPN would at least consider Paps’ funky startup newsworthy. and they finally did add something (long after Baseball Tonight had ignored it completely in favor of their dizzy “draft” routine, which updated every damned game BUT that one!) on that.

Still waiting on something on Oki’s little sojourn: (a) the first run since his first pitch of the season, (b)the team-record he almost broke, and (c) how deftly he did extricate himself from serious trouble (loaded and one out with the big bats coming, and one lousy run to make it 7-3 — that is far better than it looks).

It was also pretty obvious from the pitch-by-pitch I saw, that neither one was at his best … then Paps got fired up and smoked Jeter on three straight outside-corner taken pitches, all too close to take!

A whole different energy, but confirmation that this Sox team may really be different.

Had to go to soccer r sox, ill catch lowell’s next dinger tomorrow im thinking.
Sounds like I missed all the fun, hopefully they show that aknob play on the highlites. Wouldn’t it be sweet if Schilling brings us a 2/3 bagger tomorrow.

Looks like we will see who wins tomorrow, the tighten up “must win or the season is over” team, or the loose “Manny being Manny” team. Based on Jeter’s barking at the ump last night, I think the NY sphincters may be in trouble. I don’t remember seeing him bark at an ump like that, he’s usually pretty composed.

Relax about Drew, the beauty of a team like this one is if one guy is slumping everyone else is hitting. Did anyone want to flipflop Manny to bat 8th when he was struggling, batting .202 in April? Tavarez had it right, look at his quotes after the game. Drew will turn it back on, probably just as someone else cools off. Anyone notice that Drew cooled off and Tek picked it up? Tek had 16 hits in 20 April games, he’s already gotten 18 in 15 May games.

Sorry I know this is off blog but I am boiling over from last nights game (we won 7-3).
Having said that I want to encourage every Sox fan….no…..Baseball fan to write to the webster committee responsible for installing new words in the dictionary every year to submit a suggestion that another word or abreviation for “cheat” would be A-ROD. He is truly the corked hole in a beer barrel better known as a bung! You add the rest!

Lars

Okay…I have no idea what 75% of the post above me was about, but get off of A-Rod. That’s exactly the type of play a gritty player like Trot Nixon or ‘Tek would pull too, and then it wouldn’t be a big deal. Maybe they wouldn’t have thrown the elbow into the netherregions like A-Rod did, but the basic idea was to get the run in from 3rd and slow down the throw to first. There’s a reason Baseball Tonight, SportsCenter, etc. didn’t cover it: because it wasn’t a big deal.

And we weren’t crying for Manny to drop in the order in April for various reason…

a. He has started out slowly in the past 3 seasons.

b. He has 10+ years of 30 HR’s and 100 RBI’s to his credit.

c. It’s Manny.

It is almost June and Drew is slumping badly. But I agree that a sign of a good team is picking up players who aren’t getting the job done. Drew will turn it around, as I’ve said many times, I’m confident in that. But for now, he is leaving too many baserunners out there so why not give Lowell the chance to up his RBI total?

And what is the deal with Torre’s lineup lately? His 7-8-9-1 hitters were left-handed last night, allowing Javy Lopez to breeze through 1 and 1/3 innings. Last year that part of the order would have killed us since we didn’t have any lefties, but this year we have 3 seemingly capable ones.

I agree with zachary and everyone else who’s said that the A-Rod incident at second was not a big deal. Pedroia didn’t appear to like it too much, but if it was that big a deal Francona probably would have come out and argued it. Besides, the rule book is pretty vague, and leaves it to the umpires judgement as to whether the runner “willfully and deliberately” tried to break up the double play. I’ll admit I thought it was a bit bush league, but it’s not worth getting worked up about.

And zachary, just so you don’t think I’m trying to be all buddy-buddy with you, Javy Lopez is a catcher for the Rockies. Javier Lopez is a pitcher for the Sox. ;-)

A-Rod’s play was actually pretty stupid. I’m sure what he did was against the rules. If you look closely at the slide… he was completely done with the “regular” part of the slide and then made an extra movement off to the side with his elbow. Did he have enough time to think… “I’m A-Rod… we’re losing… we’re the Yankees… at home we’re going to get the borderline calls?” I doubt it. He did something stupid and got lucky.

On a different note, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a worse pitch than Mussina’s to Manny. It was a batting practice meatball over the outer middle of the plate, behind 2-0. I can’t even remember the last time JD Drew got a hit. You would figure Mussina would be a little more careful with Manny.

Drew has me worried too, apparently he hits Petitte well so if I were Francona I’d play him tonight. If he comes up with another goose egg, then sit him for a game or two and move him down in the order when he gets back. Atleast until he starts producing. I know it’s a high pressure city to play in, but the team is a relaxed one that’s winning, his teamates are probably supportive towards him. Why can’t he just chill and start playing like he was earlier in the season.

I think Drew is about as chill as they come, drein. He is one of those country boys with a “nothing can get me down” attitude. If anything, someone needs to light a fire under his behind. Switching leagues has set him back and he should be producing by the 2nd half. One thing that has surprised everyone is his ability to stay healthy, even after that crash into the wall.

It doesn’t matter whether A-Rod’s elbow jab at Pedroia was within the rules or not. The bottom line is that he went beyond a hard slide and gave a cheap shot to Pedroia. He has to be plunked. Not sure when, and who will do it (it would be ideal to bring in Joel Pineiro, who throws in the low 90s, to deck A-Rod if the Sox have a comfortable lead late in the game. It wouldn’t matter much if Pineiro got suspended. It would if Schilling did. Though I imagine Schilling will do the honors tonight. I fully expect A-Rod to get hit in the back or the leg. It’s just something that needs to be done. By the way, Francona said on WEEI today that he didn’t see the A-Rod slide because Schilling blocked his view. He said he would watch the play on video this afternoon.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

I agree with rizzo, Drews a laid back player, but I also think he doesn’t understand his role in the batting order. It seems to me he is taking an awful lot of pitches, trying to work the count and draw walks, and that is not his role nessicarly, it is drive in runs, though getting on-base is important. He needs to swing, that is the only way to break a slump. He does have one of the nicest swings in Major League Baseball.

What a piece of garbage Giambi is. He admits to using steriods a few times now… but is smart enough to take advantage of the MLB testing process. As long as you keep getting caught for the “first” time in a different category of cheating, it’s OK? Steriods.. check, Amphetamines… check, what’s next?

Good call on the plunking, Jeff. I’d prefer to see Delcarmen do the honors, he was touching 98 mph with his fastball at times last year.

But I will be shocked if Schilling doesn’t at least brush A-Rod back tonight, he is a very proud guy and definitely wants to protect his teammates.

I am still surprised at the Yankee pitching’s unwillingness to throw inside to Papi. The guy is hitting .400 with 10 RBI’s off of them in 8 games, get a clue.

Giambi? How about the players who have not admitted it despite mounds of evidence against them like Sheffield and Bonds? Out of all the junkies, at least Giambi is admitting it and taking it like a man. Just because he’s a Yankee doesn’t mean you should be blind towards the issue. Not to mention all the players yet to get caught that are still doing it today.

You guys whine when the Yankees don’t play with heart (more like ridicule), you whine when they play with heart (A-Rod showing some emotion on Pedroia), make a decision. It looked like a shoulder, but the contact was because he slid off the base, which is legal as long as he is within reach of the base in the first place, the shoulder was not caught, but yet the relation should be hit him with whoever has the best fastball? The Sox have hit about four times the Yankees as vise versa, be careful who you call bush league. If anything, the Yankees should play a little more cut throat more often, maybe we can get another Tek-A Rod brawl going haha.

retaliation* not relation.

I’m amazed at Giambi. He said that Baseball, MLB, should apologize for HIS use of steroids. It’s mind boggling that he could have the cojones to suggest such a thing. Yes, baseball and Selig have done their best to turn a blind eye to steroids, but it is certainly not Giambi’s place to take MLB to task for it! Astonishing!

Hey, the censors know c o j o n e s! How international!

I agree that Bonds is on a whole other level with the steroids issue, but to say that Bonds is worse is a weak defense.

There is a difference between playing with heart and doing random acts of desperation and stupidity (The slap and the elbow).

He didn’t slide off the base… he slid directly to the base and then AFTERWARDS threw an elbow.

With all of the Bill James-type computer wizardry out there… I’m waiting for someone to analyze all of the stats over the last few decades to come up with the likely Steriod Cheater List. A computer program can pretty easily look for anomolies in stats over a massive pool of data (Brady Anderson anyone?). Also weigh certain teams with confirmed cheaters (follow the Canseco trail). Potentially add in a little human element (look for the guys who went from skinny to “horizontally stretched” in a year). In the end… Baseball is to blame. It’s ridiculous for people to say… “How can these players cheat the game?” Easy, it wasn’t technically against the rules… didn’t seem like anyone cared… lots of players were doing it… and there were millions of dollars at stake.

What happens if Schill plunks arod, and he goes back to being normal?????? Has anyone ever seen arod being normal…lol

I agree with Vince on the steroids issue. Would people prefer to bury their heads in the sand and pretend like it doesn’t happen? You could do a poll on who thinks Barry Bonds has used something and the overwhelming majority would say yes. Giambi has manned up (well as much as he can given the reprecussions if he actually said it) and said there is a problem. My take is that he could be one of MLB’s biggest assets in doing something about the current situation. That he could get punished for saying what we all know to be happening is farcical.

However, I do think they should hit A-Rod. Nothing personal, it’s just a simple matter of protecting a teammate. Whether what A-Rod’s action was legal or not becomes less relevant to the team if they judge that he deliberately tried to hurt a teammate. I have no problem with A-Rod playing with more heart. In fact, I think it’s good to see if you’re a Yankee fan. But that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t get hit. It’s the exact same as what happened with Phelps a few weeks back against the Mariners. He knew it was coming and took it, it’s part of the game.

Vince, I don’t think the fact that the Red Sox have hit more batters than the Yankees makes them “bush league” in any sense. In fact, I think that retaliation in baseball is completely necessary because there are so few ways available to stand up for your teammates. Whether it’s a brushback pitch or a well-placed fastball to somebody’s back, hitting batters does not constitute cheapness. The pitcher commands respect when he does it. Why do you think Pedro was so feared for so many years? He wasn’t afraid to go inside.

Perfect instance last night: Manny knew Mussina wasn’t coming inside on a 2-0 pitch, so he leaned over the plate and looked middle-away fastball. He got it and I think we all know the result.

I don’t agree with hitting A-Rod in this situation. The game was last night and its not like we lost the game due to that As they say “Fougettaboutit”. The only time that I think is reasonably acceptable would be hiiting a batter only if the other team commited the same offense. Going inside and moving the batter away form the plate is fine.

Zachary, hitting the batter does not command respect for the pitcher, having good stuff and dominating does (Johan Santana). Pedro was a great pitcher, that is how he was respected.

In all other spectator sports if a player takes a cheap shot, (Sun v. Spurs) they are suspenped. Why not baseball?

The Yankees are wary of this possiblity and so are the umpires. As for somebodys suggestion earlier “use Pinerio instead of Schilling beacause its okay if he gets suspended”. Think about the effects something like that have on the clubhouse, the pitching staff etc.

That’s my point. You say physically hitting players with fastballs is acceptable and part of the game, but hard base running even if there was a little shove is bush league and cheap when you’re trying to break up a dp? Makes no sense.

Arnie, Giambi said he was wrong for doing that stuff and that MLB needs to apologize for ignoring the issue AS A WHOLE. Big difference.

My name is Jeff, and I am an addict. Even though Curt Schilling is annoying me to no end, and the Sox continue to leave runners on base – and even though it is no big deal if they lose this game since they will still have a 9.5 game lead – my blood boils when the Sox don’t play well. Schilling is awful tonight. Pull him. I would rather see Joel Pineiro.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

My main point is that even when I want to turn off the TV, I can’t. I find myself drawn back into the game. THis one will get ugly if Schilling remains in the ame. At this point, though, you might as well let him go a few more innings since it doesn’t look like it’s the Sox night. Let him get his brains beat in, and save the bullpen.

It’s not a “cheap shot” if you throw at another player and it’s warranted. I don’t think comparing something like the Pacers-Pistons brawl a couple years ago to throwing at somebody on the other team is comparable at all.

And I never said that hitting a batter commands respect. Not being afraid to pitch inside is what commands respect. Aside from Pedro’s tremendous repetoire of pitches and control, the thing most commonly associated with him is his willingness to go inside on hitters.

Best example of this is the game where Pedro sent Soriano and Jeter to the hospital in the same ambulance. First 2 batters of the game, he plunks them. Another game that comes to mind is one in 2004 where he drilled Sheffield in the back for calling timeout in the middle of his windup. I’m not glorifying these events, just citing that Pedro was and is unafraid to defend his teammates and move players off the plate.

Pitching inside is part of baseball. Popping up from a slide into 2nd base and throwing your elbow into the midsection of the 2nd baseman is not.

You’re comparing a brawl to an elbow at second base? A-Rod did not harm anybody, he did what he could to break up a dp, he didn’t even spike anybody like they used to in the old days. To me sending someone to the hospital is a lot more bush league then throwing an elbow.

And Jeff, how do you think I’ve felt this year? I’ve wanted to turn off more TV’s this year than not, it is aseriously an addiction.

Sorry Vince, I wasn’t referring to you about the brawl, I was talking about the post about cheap shots in other spectator sports. To even take that down a level, I still think that throwing an elbow to the face in basketball is worse than throwing at a batter in baseball.

Jeter and Soriano are two players notorious for crowding the plate. Pedro probably didn’t throw at them with the intention of sending them to the hospital, he wanted to establish the inside part of the plate and both batters got in the way.

Ugly game tonight. What really kills is when it’s 6-1 and the bullpen lets those extra runs score.

At least the YES commentators were making me laugh. O’Neill was talking about how obnoxious CB Buckner’s (the homeplate umpire) strikeout call was, and it seemed after that Buckner was just trying to be as flashy as possible, highlighting the night with the final punchout on Crisp that was just ridiculous looking.

Vince, I agree with Giambi that MLB should have been more strict with steroids, but it is kind of like a criminal suggesting the laws should be enforced better. Well, not a great analogy, but you get my point. Almost like saying, I’m sorry, but it’s your fault for not preventing me. It just sounds bad coming from him.

How much power does Wily Mo have? I think that’s the farthest I’ve ever seen a ball travel off a broken bat. If only he could learn some patience, the dude would be an incredible hitting force.

Vince, I think I understand what you’re saying, but being able to reach the base has nothing to do with it if you interpret the rule book literally. The deciding factor is willful intent, not position in relation to the base. However, you have a point that if the runner is pretty close to the base, they’re probably not going to get called for interference. I’d compare it a little bit to Coco’s stolen base last night. I think the throw coming in on the third base side of second and the tag being on Coco’s hip were the main reasons he was called safe, not because the ump thought he saw his hand touch the base before he was tagged. Maybe not a direct comparison, but the umps have to make a call quickly and decisively in both cases. To call interference on a runner can result in a big change in the game, and the ump isn’t going to do that without very good reason. I don’t think A-Rod gave him that reason.

And in case anyone cares, I’m glad A-Rod didn’t get plunked. I hate retaliation in sports. Play the game.

On the topic of broken bats, Manny once hit a home run in Cleveland with a bat that was already broken before he stepped to the plate. The reason he used it was because he claimed to like the bat, so he didn’t want to get rid of it.

I don’t know how many of you have read this article in the New Yorker about Manny, but it has to be one of the funniest things I’ve ever read. It mostly has to do with his background, personality, and some hilarious stories.

If you haven’t read this, do yourself a favor and find some time to. Although it is a bit on the long side, it is completely worth it.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/04/23/070423fa_fact_mcgrath

I heart the New Yorker. Especially for the cartoons they’ve had.

As for today, so is Schill just going through a slump or what? That was another horrible start. He got away without a loss last time, but he sure earned a loss this time.

Well, you can’t win ‘em all, and the Yankees were bound to win a series against us sooner or later.

I guess we will see how Schill’s next start goes…

we arer arguing about something that happened 2 days ago now, when we should be thinming of the fact that our “ace” hasnt pitched like an ace in quite some time.

While I hear you Sox fans downplaying the A-Rod incident, there is something that bothers me, that seems to escape everyone, particularly yankeevmm. A hard, spikes-up slide to break up a double play is one thing when executed correctly. The player who does that, who slides into the middle infielder runs the risk of having that infielder or his spikes land on him and hurt him, in order to break up the double play. I come to expect that sort of aggressive baseball play from good players like Jeter.

What A-Rod did was different. He didn’t slide into Pedroia. Instead, what he did was to throw an elbow at a guy who was off-balance and susceptible to injury. To break up the doubleplay he was willing to injure the other player, not himself. To me, that’s what makes A-Rod’s play bush. What made it worse was his quote afterward that he would do it again. Big tough guy, willing to injure other players, but not himself.

And yankeevmm doesn’t understand that in that circumstance, when you have a player so willing to injure your teammates at no sacrifice to himself, his fellow pitchers may feel the need to “point out” that his play has crossed the line. Come on, home boy!

Given the RedSox shortstop merry-go-round, I sure hope they resist the temptation of trying to pick up A-Rod in the off-season. After all, while he has been with the Yanks he has had career season after career season. During that span, how many times have the Yanks made it to the World Series, let alone won the World Championship?

I wouldn’t trade Orlando Cabrera or Mike Lowell even up for A-Rod. Hopefully, by the end of the season, I will be saying the same thing about Julio Lugo, who sure seems to have found his place and is fitting into the team.

Vin I have found agreement with you in many even most of your posts, as for A-BUNG sorry I just don’t see that as merely “agressive” play. The slide WAS complete he rose from the ground as if he were popping up from a slide and THREW body and elbow at Pedroia! That was so beyond the border of fair play that it rivals the famous slap the ball trick with Bronson Aroyo. I can respect a good hard slide ala Mike Lowel I can tolerate the aggressiveness of Jeter or Jorge but they do it right and do it hard. I would bet a heap that Jeter or Jorge or Giambi would utter “whatta jerk” and shake there heads. dbenjamin you got it right!!

Not to jump on the bandwagon but Vince I would take issue with one thing you said. You said nobody got injured on the play. While this is true, it becomes somewhat irrelevant if the intent was there to injure him. His intent and actions shouldn’t be measured by the result it has on the other player.

Maybe it’s me, but I think A-Rod’s comments are somewhat contradictory. While he says it was an accident, he also says “It was [Jorge] Posada running, so he needed all the help he could get.” Which makes it sound anything but accidental.

I think supreme probably brought up the best point of all, Schilling’s four weak starts in a row.

What I saw was a runner pop up from a slide, probably off balance (he did not bounce up cleanly if you look at his legs) and instead of falling back to the ground, he pushed his elbow into Pedroia. Why is it that completely running a catcher over at homeplate is a smart baserunning move (there is intent to at least knock the ball out even if he is wearing protection), but an elbow that did not effect the throw whatsoever is so bush league? That’s what i’m not getting. Pedro throwing inside is for a purpose, to control the strikezone, his intent was that he does not fear hitting hitters. In that sense he intends to hurt players if necessary though he would not wish to. When things go right it is a called ball and he has done his job, when it goes wrong he sends players to the hospital and he has still done his job. He is not a hitter so there is no chance of revenge on him, but maybe another player.

What A Rod did was intend to break up a double play, I doubt he wanted to harm Pedroia, it was just a risk he was willing to take, just like Pedro throwing inside, or a runner running over an unsuspecting catcher (Teixera on Posada last year). To me, all of these things are gritty and acceptable. It’s not like A-Rod tackled Pedroia and elbowed him in the jugular, and if it was so blatant and so illegal, umps surely would have picked it up, like they did with the slap. It’s just a difference of how you perceive the play, I guess. And if I were on the other side, I would think it was cheap, just like I think it’s cheap to hit our captain and knock him out of the game in the first inning, it’s something I don’t think opposing fans can agree on.

My point with pedro not hitting, btw, was that A-Rod couldn’t have considered the play to be too dangerous if he was willing to get hit by a pitch to pay for it the next day, with a pitcher in the AL, there is no real fear in doing something, except maybe at the expense of another player.

So if you agree the play was cheap, would you be ok with a Red Sox pithcer hotting A-Rod in retaliation?

I don’t think the ends justify the means, but I wouldn’t call a pitcher “bush league” for doing it. Getting elbowed is a whole lot less painful than a 94 mph pitch to the back.

Haha, I think everybody has said their piece on the A-Rod slide, let it go and hope Dice can keep the Sox non-consecutive loss streak going. A hot pitcher running into a cold team looks like a good match-up to me.

Just read that the Yankees are reportedly interested in acquiring both Todd Helton and Brian Fuentes from the Rockies. What in God’s name could they possibly give up to acquire those two? Helton is a career .334 hitter who makes $16 million a year, Fuentes is a dominant closer making only $3.5 million.

Would Giambi be involved in the deal? I really don’t see how the Rockies could benefit from a downgrade in hitting and a severe drop-off in fielding, so I would guess not. Although it has not been reported, I wouldn’t be shocked to see Bobby Abreu sent back to the National League.

Of course this is just a rumor right now, but pretty scary to think about the Yankees plugging the one glaring hole they have in their lineup with (aside from maybe Pujols) the best hitting/fielding 1B in either league.

Zach, helton would be for prospects and mostly a salary dump (exactly like abreu last year). I don’t see that happening, then Mientkiewicz AND phelps are both useless.

The deal I can see happening if Farnsworth for Fuentes. Farnsy has the stuff and maybe a change in scenery helps him, fuentes is proven in a small park and could use a contender.

On Schill I am (to put it mildly) a bit concerned. Is the age showing? Last two games his fastballs were high 80s with an occassional 92 / 93 but not consistantly. He doesn’t seem able to fool the good hitters with his stuff at all. I’m hoping it’s a temporary condition and he snaps to. We have a long season left!

Hey wait! I didn’t get to comment on A-rod. Don’t close the discussion yet! Anyway, that slide was mildly cheap, I’ve seen much worse. But what I have noticed abt A-rod is that when he tries to be aggressive or give that extra effort, pick up his play, you know the cliches; he sometimes goes overboard into the ridiculous. The Slap, the fight with Tek which helped the Sox’ season, now the Slide. A player like Jeter, always Jeter, does that kind of play smoothly and naturally. A-rod just does not go there well. He is an awesome hitter, can steal bases, is a pretty good, not great, glove man. He should leave it at that and not try to do the extras that make him look so foolish.
Re Schill, let’s hope he is going thru a phase. He could lose all of his starts from now on and Tito would never take him out of the rotation.

Also, did you hear how much airtime Torre’s job got on ESPN? They have him mostly fired already. That would be a shame. A good thing from a purely Sox standpoint but in pure baseball terms it would *******.

Its Terry Francona isn’t it, I thought Tito was his father? Arnie if Torre id fried it would *******, no more competetion.

The Helton trade would be salary dump and prospects. But the question is What prospects are the yanks ready to part with and what propects are the Rockies willing to take. RedSox offered Lowell + Tavarez + Hensen/Delcarman but the rockies were not interested.

Unlike Bobby Abreu(who is not a fan favorite in Philly) Helton is the fan favorite in Colarado.

Yes, Terry Francona is the Sox manager, but he is also called Tito, as was his father.

rsjones, you got that right on Torre. The Yanks would fall into chaos w/out Torre, IMO.

This is why you should never, ever, ever listen to espn with anything Yankees related, if you can avoid it.

Who’s gonna replace Torre? Mattingly? An offensive minded coach with two months of bench experience? Girardi? Straight out of the YES network to a team where he still has old teammates and will garnish no respect despite a militant attitude? Piniella? Yeah, right. Many want Torre fired, sometimes he frustrates me too, but it won’t happen this season. I would think Kevin Long and Brian Cashman go before Torre does within the season, but I doubt it.

Kumar, The Rockies were competitive for most of last season and went into the offseason with high hopes. Now they are in last place and struggling. If the sox offered both delcarman and hanson, it would have been a done deal, they didn’t. Now the Sox don’t really need Helton though he can obviously help them but it would involve moving Lowell, who is probably their 2nd most consistant hitter right now.

I’m not sure why Sox fans seem to ignore the fact that the Yankees have a ridiculous amount of pitching prospects in their farm system. They, like the Sox have 6 of the top 100 prospects in all of baseball and were overall ranked the top pitching and 5th best farm system overall.

The Yankees could, if they wanted to, give up some second rated prospects for Helton, in addition to Farnsworth and eat most of Helton’s salary, something the Sox would probably not be willing to do. This would give the Rockies money to go out and get somebody big, plus prospects that may or may not pan out.

Besides Hughes, Clippard, desalvo, Wright, Karstens and rasner, whom we have all seen (and most of which have been decent, with some struggles in wright and some dominance in Hughes and Clippard), the Yankees also have guys like Chamberlain, Betances, Kennedy, Smith, Ramirez, Whelan, Jackson, Ohlendorf, Tabada, and the list goes on. The Thunder had a 2.38 TEAM ERA coming into the week. In that stadium, I would think the Rockies want pitching, mostly and maybe they feel they can revive a guy like Eric Duncan or get a hot hitter like Shelley Duncan. Maybe they want Chris Basak or Bronson Sardinha who are not highly touted but show potential at times.

The only Yankees prospects I would not trade for anybody are Hughes, Clippard, Chamberlain, Kennedy, Ramirez, Tabada and a reliever or two (seems to be their best strength). But as you can tell just off the top of my head, there are plenty of options. Personally, like I said, I think the Yankees get Fuentes and lose Farnsworth, which I support, but I don’t know about Helton just yet.

Many may be thinking the Yankees are going back to old methods they swore off of, but you’re missing the difference. 2001-2005 they went after guys like Giambi, Pavano, Johnson, Sheffield and other guys past their prime for overpriced amounts. While guys like Clemens and maybe Helton could exist on the team, these are short term solutions. They are not tied up in salary that is untradable, the Yankees learned that lesson. Next year Clemens, Abreu, possibly A-Rod, and possibly Pettitte are off the books. The year after Mussina, Pettitte, Farnsworth, Pavano join them. They will use their money to resign Rivera and Posada, and probably Pettitte if he stays. But the guys they go after now are trading lower prospects for big money that comes off the books immediately unless they pan out, that’s a big difference.

Kumar, you’re right about the players included in the Helton ” deal ” but it’s the Rockies that made the offer, this past winter, and Theo said no. Slight difference.

For the Rockies, that was a money issue ( Helton is making 16 M a year ). As for the Sox, i think they were more concerned about giving up prospects.

The Rockies are in a weird place right now, they need bullpen help AND hitting, so they may not want to trade one of their good bullpen guys for another. Also Helton wanted the trade done right away so it would not be a distraction, so he may nix all talk now that the season is started. Also, the Rocks need his bat right now. Helton is a fan favorite so they need to show they got something good for him or else there may be no one in the stands.

What disturbs me is how similar sox and yanks are:
1) Neither right fielder is producing anything.

2) Mussina and Shilling both seem to have lost quite a bit off their fastball.

3) Middle relief is shaky on both teams. (Donnelly and Pinero are not too impressive)

4) Lately there hasn’t been much difference between the starting pitching. I guess that leaves the sox in a good position to hold onto their lead.

Donnelly has been good for the most part of the season so far. He’s on the plus side of the bullpen evaluation, just after Pap and Oki.

But yeah, he had some problems lately.

Kumar, the Rockies owner approached Boston about Helton in spring training. The Sox offered Lowell, Tavarez and either Hansen or Delcarmen. Colorado wanted both, or one of Hansen and Delcarmen, plus another top prospect. Rightfully so, Epstein said no. I don’t think the Sox should trade Lowell or Tavarez. I would deal Hansen or Delcarmen if it resulted in a young veteran coming to the Sox, but really there is no need for Helton. If anything, the Sox need to acquire a center fielder if Crisp remains cold. Drew will heat up, as will Manny and Lugo, inmy opinion. Crisp is the main question mark. The Sox can afford him hitting .250 or .260 if they continue to win with other hitters, and he continues to provide exceptional defense. I foresee the Sox going after Ichiro or Torii Hunter in the off-season, keeping Ellsbury in Triple-A for one more season, and then calling Ellsbury to Boston in 2009 after Manny’s contract expires (if the Sox do not pick up Manny’s 2009 option). Of course, that is the future, and this is now.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

By the way, I can see the Yankees getting Helton. They definitely have a need at first base, and Colorado has a need to dump Helton’s salary, but I can’t imagine the Rockies trading Brian Fuentes, who as someone else pointed out is a dominant closer and is signed to a financially feasible salary. The Yankees would definitely have to surrender some top prospects, as Colorado is not going to hand them Helton.

rsox_34:

I’m not sure what you mean by the “bullpen evaluation,” but I tend to agree with tj on the issue of Brendan Donnelly. My impression is that, while he posted a pretty low ERA for the first month and a half or so, he let in a lot of inherited runners. I can’t find an IRA stat for him, but every time I’ve seen him come into a game, it seems he lets inherited runners score.

Now, you could say that it’s not a fair analysis, because he is brought in with runners already on base quite often. But he ranks poorly among the Boston bullpen as far as Walks/Hits per inning (WHIP) and OBP against (OBA). Maybe it’s that the type of outs he gets tend to let runners score, as opposed to being a strikeout pitcher, which would mean that perhaps Francona isn’t using him in the situations that are best suited to his pitching style. But overall, I’ve been disappointed with his results.

LOL.

Yeah, rob, i knew someone would talk about that ” bullpen evaluation “. I meant a 1/4 season assessment, if you will.

To me, Donnelly ranks 3rd among Sox relievers after Pap and Oki after a month 1/2. Lopez would be my 3rd best but he doesn’t qualify ! Not enough games. :)

Then i have Snyder, Romero and Pineiro. In that order.

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