Bronx bust?

That is the $200 million question as the Yankees invade Fenway this weekend. Are the Yankees done? Or will they come in this weekend and show signs of life and get back into this thing.

It’s almost unfathomable that the Yankees would need to sweep the Red Sox just to get this thing down to 10 1/2 games. The Yankees have had bad luck, bad karma, bad pitching and biggest surprise of all — subpar hitting. And now Jason Giambi is gone for who knows how long, A-Rod is taking a beating again in every possible way and Phillip Hughes, the young savior, won’t pitch again for months.

The Red Sox? Everything is going right. Pedroia, the No. 9 hitter, has a .308 average. Then there is Youkilis, who suddenly looks like a right-handed Wade Boggs, circa 1985.

I wonder how Red Sox fans felt at this point in 1978? Just because I was curious, I asked my friend Jack Marshall, a die-hard who I have been corresponding with for the last eight years.

"Great
question! I remember thinking that the Sox clearly had the better team (they
should have won in ’77), but that the Yankees had the better manager
(Martin, later Lemon). I remember feeling that the Sox bullpen and
starting pitcher depth was suspect. I didn’t decide the Yankees were
cooked until quite a bit later, after the melt-down in Fenway with
Jackson and Martin having the screaming match in the dugout. I remember
thinking, maybe a little later, that it was absurd that Zimmer never
used his bench, and played the regulars day after day, never using
Brohamer or Duffy or giving Fisk a rest. I never trusted
Torrez.
Most of all, I remember feeling a sinking feeling when Zimmer made the
Sox trade Carbo, the best part-time player and in my mind a team hero
after the ’75  series. A classic "why louse up a good thing?" The team was never quite right after that, even
though they lengthened the lead.

"This team has much better depth than those Sox, especially the way
Francona uses the bench. The Rooster and Remy were better than the
current keystone. I’d take Lowell over Butch at third, and though I
loved Boomer, he lost it in ’78….Youk is better. Fisk was a better
catcher and hitter than Tek, and Lynn was twice the player Coco is.
Rice in ’78 was better than Manny, though not by too much. Ortiz is way
ahead of the ’78 Yaz at DH. Evans hadn’t emerged as an offensive force
in ’78…I’d rather have Drew.

"The teams are close on the field, though I’d give the edge to the 78
Sox offensively and defensively. But the 2007 Sox are far better on the
mound…and the 2007 Yankees just aren’t anywhere as talented as the
’78 team…they are old, and as you know, I believe only injuries to
the Sox and lucky breaks (Aaron Small!!!) kept them from finishing
behind Boston in both ’05 and ’06. And Zimmer isn’t managing, and the front office isn’t going to sit
tight while the Yankees buy late season talent.
This won’t be 1978."

Jack’s words have to be a little comforting for those who wonder if they’re in the Twilight Zone. If there is any life in the Yankees, they’ll at a bare minimum, win this series.

Should be fun.

Later,

Ian.

90 Comments

Ian:

Thanks for that perspective from Mr. Marshall. He sounds very intelligent, and obviously has a good memory for details. Very cool to hear from someone who knows about the game, remembers the way things were, and can compare them to the current situation in a coherent fashion. Please tell him that I enjoyed reading his comments very much.

I agree with most of Mr. Marshall’s comments, although I wouldn’t take Drew over a one legged Dwight Evans. I’d feel much better with Trot Nixon out there. Pedroia is a surprise and could turn out to be better than Remy in 78. I like Lugo over Burleson because he can do more. I think it’s possible, but not probable that Manny will match Rice’s 1978 numbers. Realistically, Rice ran and defended better than Manny as well. So, while Manny will most likely get to the Hall of Fame, and Jim Rice may or may not (which is BS, he should be there) the 1978 Rice is much better than the present Manny. With everything else, we agree.

If the Sox pitching holds up, they should win the division with ease. If they just play 10 games over .500 for the rest of the year, they’ll win 96 games, and they should do better than that. But if they don’t, the Yanks would have to play over .700 ball to catch them. I doubt this edition of the Yankess can do that.

What about the Clemens factor? Well, I think he hurts more than he helps. First, on a good day, he’ll go six innings. More demand on an already beat up bullpen. I love the Rocket, but he should have stayed retired. He’ll be able to pad his numbers a little, but it wouldn’t surprise me to see him wrap it up by the first of August when it becomes apparent the Yankees have no hope. This isn’t the National League Central. It won’t be as easy as it was in Houston. Oh yeah, and how old is he?

That all being said, you still have to play the games and there’s 110 of them left. It ain’t over til it’s over, and it wasn’t a Red Sox player who said that. They need to stay focused and healthy, and hopefully Tito won’t give the boys too many days off.

Go Sox!

Agree totally, very cool. It really was nice to hear that :-p

I’m all for the notion that Clemens is being severely overpaid, but to say that he will “hurt more than help” is a bit naive.

A 50 year old Roger Clemens is still more effective than anybody the Yankees could slide into their 5th rotation spot as of now, he is arguably the greatest pitcher of all time and when pitching at 75% (which is about where he will be when he first takes the mound in Chicago), he is still better than over half of the league.

With that being said, I am confident that if Wake can limit his baserunners tonight (especially with 0 outs) and the Sox knock Wang around (which they are capable of, look at some of the career numbers against him), the Sox will take the opening game. And if this happens, the pressure on the Yankees is huge and I would expect that to serve as more of a distraction so a sweep is not out of reason since we have a seemingly rejuvenated Schilling and perhaps the most dominant pitcher in baseball in Beckett going in the next two games.

Mr. Marshall knows his stuff. He remembers better than I do. But the argument can be made that in ’78 Rice was the best hitter in baseball. You can’t say that about Manny this year. But it will be pitching and management that will win this year, if they go all the way. That and the bench players. And health. There is so much baseball to be played yet. And so many unknowns, suffice it to say this years team should, and probably will, end up in first this time. It is just a better organization than the old Sox.

A 13 1/2 game lead and yet we are still looking over our shoulder at the Yanks. Oh, the life of a RedSox fan.

That having been said, I think there is a lot of room for cautious optimism. I start with the manager. Granted, he has been blessed thus far with a healthy squad that has largely performed to their potential. However, one can witness the value of his quiet moves throughout the squad. Josh Beckett left last year throwing fastballs with limited success, and returned this year relying on his entire repertoire as the most successful pitcher in baseball thus far.

When everyone screamed for Alex Cora to play every day, Tito stayed the course, allowing Pedroia to play himself into a hitter’s confidence, making some wonderful plays in the field.

Now that Cora is cooling off a bit, Tito continues to play him, allowing others badly needed respites, particularly during a run of several “make-up” doubleheaders.

Without Beckett, the Sox picked up ground. Without Big Papi, they beat the Indians, the team with the second best record in the AL, 2 in a row. I’m sure he’s made some questionable moves, but I can’t tell you how much I respect his work. While everyone likes “Zim,” he did not do the job in ’78 that Tito is doing this year. He let the horses run. As long as they ran, everything was okay. Tito is getting results even when some of the horses are not running.

Beyond that, think of the reserves the Sox now have should they encounter injuries. Kason Gabbard looks more seasoned and ready to take a pronounced role should the need arise, waiting his chance patiently. I’ve got to believe that Jon Lester is chafing at the bit to get another big league chance. However, not until management says they are ready. I don’t think we have seen the last of Devern Hansack, but it is clear that management felt he wasn’t ready this trip, and sent him back to get him re-oriented. And then there are Jacoby Ellsbury and George Kottaras. I even think the Sox could press Runelvys Hernandez into service if injuries really began to mount. He quietly went down to the minors as the Sox asked and has been putting in his work, preparing himself for a return to the majors.

The Yanks don’t have the luxury of waiting, their suggestions of building their farm program from the bottom up notwithstanding. Their rushing of Hughes made that clear, and I trace it back to the way they stood pat in the off-season, and let Sheff go. The team is old, and they are not ready to “pass the baton” to their youngsters. I see a lot of similarities between the Yanks this year and the Sox last year. Even with all that, Tito found a way to motivate his team to win 86 games. Perhaps that is the Yanks destiny under their successful manager Joe Torre.

Let’s see what happens this weekend, but no matter what happens, come Monday, the Sox will still be in first place, and likely will still own the best record in baseball.

Not a bad start, eh?

This whole thing with the Yanks being beat is almost a carbon copy of Our Sox last year. I know that we all remember what a long season it (felt like)was especially after getting swept by the Yanks at home. I wouldn’t wish that type of season on any team… or WOULD I????? YOU BETCHYA I WOULD!!!

Ian,

Omg…….reading in detail about that 1978 season stirs up some mixed feelings for me. The Sox were awesome that year. The hitting was solid. I agree with your friend Jack that Zim was outmanaged on many occasions and Torrez was not to be trusted. (Maybe they were both on the Yankee payroll back then.) Why would someone keep Hobson in there with bone chips in his elbow. He had around 30 errors that year and threw away some close games. Butchie used to triple clutch and footwork his way towards first (he could kiss the pitcher)before sending the ball 5 rows into the stands. I never understood how Zim used the bullpen and Stanley had something like a misleading 15-2 record which was horrible because his job was to hold leads not get the decisions. Still, that team was resilient and El Tiante pitched a gem to force the one game playoff. All of New England was on pins and needles. I remembered being let out of my grade school early so that all of Sox Nation young and old could catch the game. I remembered having a sick feeling in my stomach when I found out Zim elected to go with Torrez. I don’t remember if Eck didn’t have enough rest but he should have started in this do or die situation. IMO…the world series winner was coming out of that playoff game. Of course, the rest is history…Bucky became a household name for his 3 run popup. Louisiana Lightning did his thing (though Yaz went Yard early on him). Lou Pinella using his spider sense to “feel” where that ball was to keep it in front of him. I hated Zim, Torrez, Hobson…for weeks after that. I had to force myself to watch the Bruins to get over it. Despite that last fenway loss, the Sox were like an unbelievable 63-19 at home. Check me if I’m wrong but that has got to be the best home record in the modern era. The good thing is …the 2007 Sox is a better team with no Don Zimmer and the Yankees do not have Pinella or Munson or Guidry. Go Sox!!

Sox down by 3. Why does wake always have a tough time against the yanks? Gotta start a rally.

With Youk’s at bat Remy and Orsillo said that the Yankees “thought” that it was strike 3; that’s what they get for thinking… no offense intended Vince.

What a break that was for the sox. Now, we’re just down by uno.

Will someone please supply me with a visual…..I’m only going by GameDay. How close a play would it have been if Youk was given the green light to score on Manny’s hit. I only ask because Punch and Judy has been a rally killer….he’s only batting almost 100 points below Pedroia.

He would have been out by a mile akihiro. The ball was scalded, the throw from Abreu was perfect and Youk was halfway home, only way he would have scored is if Posade dropped it

Rizzo…thanks for the play-by-play.

No problem, Sox are threatening and will most likely take the lead here, now can Wake throw strikes? please

Oh well…..Wang is at 74 pitches….should be out by the 5th….if Yankee bullpen holds true to form…this should bode well for the Sox.

Tied at 3, we’re back in this.

It is hard to watch Wakefield tonight

Wake has absolutely nothing going tonight. He has one good inning, one bad inning, one good inning, and so on. He has horrible numbers against the yankees and the passed balls aren’t helping. Once again, we need to start another rally.

Oh man, here comes snyder. He needs to give us innings or the bp’s toast.

Ok. The Yanks are up 9-3 and our pitching looks as threatening as a 3 year old with a playing card, and somehow Joe Torre feels he should get himself ejected. Can anyone tell me how this happened? (i’m only on Gameday). And what was with Wake?

Well, I really don’t know what to say, (so far)? I know that They are expecting 6 or more innings from the starters this season, but with Wakefield in a hole as deep as he was, couldn’t they have pulled him in the 4th?? I know that hindsight is 20-20, but…. Tim just didn’t have it, though he looked good for a little while.
So far this season we’ve only lost back to back on 4/6,7 and 4/24,25.Let’s not let it be 3 times!!!! LET’S GO REDSOX LET’S GO!!!!!

Justin, the Yankees double stole and Abreu was clearly safe and called out (big shock). Torre came out to argue and then went back to the dugout. In between innings I guess it erupted again and he was ejected. The Sox are lucky it is 9-3 and not worse….Though if they didn’t strang 8 runners in the first three innings you can say the Yankees are lucky to be up by 6.

I know it’ll seem like I’m crying that “The sky is falling”, but, I know that we can’t let this happen tomorrow. I know that we’ve got quite a substantial lead. We just need to maintain this lead. What did Scarlett say in Gone With the Wind?? Tomorrow is another day……

OK, I’ll start the Scott Proctor discussion. Michael Kay never came out and said it explicitly, but all of his commentary seemed to imply Proctor did it on purpose. I personally don’t believe it. I don’t think he’s that stupid. He was probably trying to throw inside and it got away from him. Maybe a bad move if he can’t control his pitches well enough to stay away from Youk’s head, but I honestly don’t think he was head hunting.

Wake can’t continue to walk batters and then throw wild pitches, it’s the same story with him when he pitches poorly: lack of control. He doesn’t necessarily get hit hard, just puts base runners on and then pays for it later.

The best thing to take away from this game is the fire the Red Sox had in the 9th inning, which will carry over to tomorrow afternoon’s game.

Don’t even try and tell me that Proctor wasn’t throwing at Youkilis, because he was pitching away the whole at-bat and then on a 2-2 count he inexplicably threw for Youk’s head. Even Michael Kay and Ken Singleton (the YES announcers) were disgusted.

This all ties back to our discussion on sending messages by throwing at players. Obviously Wang and Wakefield hit batters were unintentional, but Javier Lopez and Scott Proctor were definitely sending messages with their beanballs. I would say to expect Schilling to respond tomorrow but last time he dug himself into such a deep hole so early he couldn’t afford to put baserunners on by hitting them, so who knows.

What I do know is that Mattingly’s (or Torre’s) decision to bring in Rivera was pretty odd. The Yankees had a 6 run lead with 1 out and apparently didn’t want the lead to slip away? What if the Yankees need Rivera for tomorrow and Sunday?

What Proctor did was a disgrace. He hit someeone in the Mariners game unjustifiably as well, but at least then he threw at his back. Throwing at someone’s head is ridiculous.

Vince – “the Yankees double stole and Abreu was clearly safe and called out (big shock)”. Some bad calls have gone against the Yankees, I definitely admit that. But that was not an easy play to call. Only when you havew slow-mo hi-def frame-by-frame. Eventually these decisions balance these themselves out.

By the by, I would say the Yankees needed to win the game, but bringing in Rivera was somewhat of a panic move.

I’m not saying Proctor wasn’t throwig at Youk. I’m saying I don’t think he intended to throw at his head. And as far as throwing away prior to that, it’s common pitching strategy to move in and out. In the words of Bobby Cox: “Low and away, up and in.”

This is not panic mode so don’t misconstrue what I’m saying; but you don’t want to give the Yankees any momentum. If there ever was a team that knows what to do with a little momentum, it’s the ‘stripers. So this is a great weekend to win out this series and show them that the Sox are not going to give an inch this year. No consecutive lost series’ and don’t get swept. Sox: win the next two!!!

If you’ve followed along dating back to the 2nd seattle series, the calls have gone heavily in the direction against the yankees and I’m not talking balls and strikes.

I do agree Proctor probably threw at Youk, but I don’t agree it was at his head. The argument that he was pitching away the whole time is a weak one, if that’s the case it makes sense to come inside because Youk may have been leaning. It also makes sense after hitting THREE Yankees, with 1 out in the 9th and a hot hitter up it would make sense to hit the guy, but I don’t think any pitcher in the majors is dumb enough to go head hunting. That’s not Proctor’s style, he didn’t even hit Betancourt when he threw at him and the area was the middle. Either Proctor was coming up and in after going low and away or he was looking to hit Youk and misfired high, either way, you can’t call that a disgrace. Missing was unfortunate, but luckily Youk is ok, but there’s no way Proctor aimed for his head.

I’m not claiming that by pitching away for the whole at-bat, Proctor has no reason for suddenly going inside. What I’m saying is that he had no problems hitting the target on the previous 4 pitches to Youkilis and then, after Posada sets up inside and motions for Proctor to keep the ball low, he suddenly decides to uncork a 94 mph face-seeking fastball.

On another note, all of Fenway yelling “mine!” at the Yankees after every pop-up was pretty amusing. So were the blonde haired female masks a bunch of the fans behind the Yankees dugout were wearing. This might have been an ugly game for Red Sox fan but you complain about the entertainment value.

Can’t complain about the entertainment value…it’s late.

Vince: complaining about calls by the umpires? Come on man, that’s not your style! :-P ;-)

Actually, I’ll agree to an extent, but they haven’t been as bad as you and Suzyn Waldman (on the Yanks Radio Network, in case anybody didn’t know) have made it out to be. Honestly, it all boils down to the fact that the Yanks were hurt and then when there was some semblance of pitching stability, the bats went down to nitrogen cooled levels. That, I’m sure you can agree with.

Tough game, and even tougher for Wake, J.D. and Lowell. Hope J.D. and Lowell are A-OK. If Lowell went on the DL, I’d assume we’d see say Cora at 3rd base keeping Youk at 1st base? Or would Youk move to 3rd base and would Hinske play at 1st base?

Yeah, these are all hypotheticals, but hey, I like playing manager (even at 2:37 in the AM).

Oh and those “Blonde Masks” and all of Fenway yelling “Mine!” or “Hah!” at A-Rod were both just comedy gold. :-D

As for Rivera coming in, I think it’s cause he needs to get that regular work to stay sharp. Clearly, they haven’t been using him much, yet if they start using him a bit more in blowout wins or losses, he can at least get some work in a real game environment. At least, that’s my theory.

Oh and Ian, since you mentioned it, whatever happened to Aaron Small? I figured the Yanks might have called on him to help stabilize the rotation for a bit (that is, if he’s still with them).

Pedroia now 120 points higher OBP than Lugo. Just because Lugo picks up a few RBIs with groundouts with men on, doesn’t mean he deserves to be at the top. Imagine a top of the line-up with Pedroia (red hot), Youks (red hot), Papi, and Manny (hot). Lugo has absolutely no right to be hitting lead off. NONE. Time to put all the egos and BS behind and reward the people contributing… and maybe pickup a few more runs.

wouldnt surprise me to see proctor get suspended since he is now a repeat offender.

i hate fox games since im gonna end up getting some crappy west coast game

First off I am glad to see in the pregame lineups that Lowell is back in there. A trip to the DL wouldn’t be the worst thing for Drew to try and get his mind right. However what is up with Pena playing today? For god sakes put Hinske in RF, I betcha Pena will be flailing away at Mussina’s knucklecurves. He is possible the worsrt pitcher someone like Wily Mo has to face.

Regarding Proctor, I hope he gets whats coming to him. The guy is a hothead plain and simple. This is the guy who in Toronto earlier in the week decided he needed to punch the dugout wall with is right hand (ah, the Kevin Brown approach always smart). He has shown good enough command this season to not miss by that much. If it were Bruney it may be different because with him you never know where the ball is going.

I don’t see it necessary for Schill to retaliate, all I hope is that in lights a fire under the Sox and they can go out and win these next two, and maybe by the end of June be 15 or 16 up and officially end the division race discussion.

I told everyone how many times that Pedroia would be at the top of the lineup. I just wish he would have replaced Lugo.

You sure got half your wish realized. But i doubt he’ll be in the 1 hole soon.

That has got to be the most hypocritical argument from a Sox fan I’ve ever seen. By those standards, Pedro should have been suspended every year as a Sox player. The guy has perfect command and hit Jeter and Soriano all the time. You know how many times Jeter and A-Rod get hit by Sox pitchers? Is the reason because they stand close to the plate, because Youk does too? Proctor, unlike most Yankees isn’t afraid to get down and dirty and defend his guys.

Two benefits of Drew not being in the lineup. 1) The .222 is removed and 2) Everyone shifts up one spot. Lowell drives in an important run from the #5 spot with a HIT… not a weak ground out.

Old man Clemens pulls a groin trying to reach around and wipe his far ****.

That last strike to Wily Mo was about 4 inches outside. Wish they would show a replay.

This series is not lookin good for us right now. Sox need to do something, anything, because the Yankees r heating up and the series is not reeli favoring us at all right now. Why has schilling been so terrible these past few games. His only good game was last time out, but thats it so far.

And Pinero was supposed to be the closer for our team?? The only true reliable guy in the pen right now is okajima. Y is pinero on this team?

Be patient, dj. When Timlin is ready, Pineiro’s gone. I’d put good money on it.

If you were referring to my post yankeevmm, I never said anything about a suspension of Proctor. All I said was I hope he got what was coming to him and today he did. Like I said he is a hothead, after Abreu misplayed Papi’s fly ball he couldn’t control himself and walked the park. I realize Youk jumps over the plate a little bit, but not as severely as Jeter. And I can’t remember Jeter ever having his head thrown at. When he went to the hospital wasn’t it a hand injury a few years ago? Anyway thats all in the past now and I’m glad the Sox “cowboy’d up” so to speak and let the Yanks have it today. No retaliation was necessary, I’ll just take the win thank you very much.

Of course Pedro was intentionally hitting players in on the hands or in the side, his command is impeccable. But I don’t ever recall him throwing for somebody’s head and connecting.

Regardless of intent, karma came back to bite Proctor in the butt today as his team let him down defensively big time. Abreu didn’t have the best route to Ortiz’s double, Cano almost air-mailed a throw into left field during the double play, and Jeter just booted one.

It’s interesting to note that while Papi’s home run totals are down, his batting average is up. It could be worse, considering our #6 hitter leads the team in home runs and has put up 45 RBI’s.

I also laughed out loud when the FOX announcers noted that while Clemens will not pitch Monday, he believes he can be ready 4 or 5 days down the road to pitch against…guess who? The Pittsburgh Pirates. I don’t know why I found this so funny, probably because Clemens saw plenty of the Pirates while playing in Houston and maybe wants an easier first outing so he doesn’t get crucified by the media.

Also amusing that one of the driving forces behind Clemens signing with the Yankees was that they gave him the freedom to pitch whenever he felt ready while Houston and Boston both requested he return around June 22nd (the same time he started last year). The guy may be a phenom, but he’s still pushing 45.

Vince – is there some reason you think you can say with authority “there’s no way Proctor aimed for his head.”? And as far as three hit by pitches goes, one was off Wakefield (ow, I got hit by a 60 mph knuckle ball, I hope my pitcher gets him back for me) and one of them I have trouble believing was intentional. Not often you get ahead of a guy 0-2 and then try to hit him. It doesn’t make any sense

Vince: Theris getting down and dirty with a pitch and then there’s trying to hit a guy in the head, you know that I don’t usually get in the middle of this **** but with this one I felt I had to speak up. By the way, on the broadcast today I believe what I heard about a Proctor suspension went something like this: Because Youkilis didn’t charge the mound, and nothing happened Proctor will not serve any kind of suspension. Thanks Jorge!

Rizzo: I always loved the term “COWBOY UP”. I think the 07 Sox have taken cowboy up to a new level in a new arena!!!
Everyone knows that I made it plain that I thought Tavarez had been really stinking up the mound. I wasn’t able due to “computer difficulties” (DELL SCHREWUPS) to say how impressed I was with his recent outings. I hope that he stays with whatever it is he’s changed. I loved it today on the SCHLOX (fox) broadcast when he gave the line up. I swear I heard him call himself JULIE!! I like that nickname. I like it much better than when the so-called experts call him HOOLIAN..

Todays outcome was great.. I love a come from behind win!!! and I love the stats of how many times the Yanks have lost after having the lead this year. Last year when we had all of our injuries all we heard was “you guys need to **** it up”, well, now they know what it was to play without nearly a full compliment of the roster, pitchers and bull pen!

Sorry Vince, you never gave me any garbage so that’s not aimed at you. I definitely know how you’re feeling.

after todays game i am convinced that proctor did not mean to hit youk. he was scared shitless to throw inside

He was scared today because if he threw inside again he might get thrown out

Yeah stars, that was a huge advantage for the Sox today. Knowing that Proctor wasn’t coming in and they could dive over the plate makes hitting twice as easy. But he did that to himself for what he did or didn’t do last night. Got a good laugh with the MLB.com censors, apparently s/u/c/k/s is horrible language but shitless is cool. haha

No, I can’t say definitely he didn’t aim for the head, but you can’t say he did. Oh ok, Pedro aiming for hands is so much better.

How do you make a case Cano is not intentional on 0-2 but Youk is on 2-2?

Zach what makes you so sure Proctor was aiming for the head? If his control is so perfect why did he walk everyone today? And why didn’t he aim higher, then when youk lowered his head inevitably it wouldn’t have hit his shoulder?

It is absolutely absurd on any level of baseball to assume someone aims for somebody elses head, regardless of the teams on the field. Just absurd. You guys hit three of our batters yesterday and two more today, we hit a guy near the head and all of a sudden Proctor is satan and the Yankees play dirty? The number is like 50+ to 20+ with sox hitting yankees to vise versa, it is ridiculous to assume Proctor aimed for a head. And yes, Jeter has been hit in the head before, I don’t believe it was by a red sox pitcher though.

Oh and btw MLB agreed with Proctor here, so this case should be closed.

And no, MLB has NOTHING to do with umpires when I made that statement. I’m not about to say that all the calls made in a game are the right calls, trust me.

I can say as a Sox fan that Petey (Pedro) aimed for heads more than once. I didn’t like it from him and I didn’t like it from Proctor. He was pissed, understandable, but to go for the head.. When Lowell hit Mientkiewicz today, did you see him look back and hesitate before going for 2nd?? He wasn’t looking for the go ahead, it really seemed that he was concerned for Doug.

BTW Ellen, no offense taken, how have you been, hows the job?

This is going to sound really random on a sox blog, but does anybody out there know an easy way to take contacts out of your eyes? I just started wearing them and nobody really explained how to take them out fairly quickly.

Vince: I think that he walked everyone today due to nerves from last nights “loss of control”. Everyone knew that the warnings were there. He got off without a fine or a suspension, so I think he erred on the side of caution.

Ellen, I caught that. Lowell is a stand up guy, he did show concern for Doug when he was face down not moving.

I don’t know, call me naeve (sp) but I just don’t think guys aim for heads in major league baseball, it’s too dangerous and not part of the game anymore. Maybe Pedro aimed up and in, but I refuse to believe he would consciously aim for a vital part of somebodies body. Maybe the helmet worst case scenario, but not the face which is around where Youk would have been hit.

Proctor had his wife survive cancer last year and his kid survive birth, barely, I doubt he knowingly would throw at a guy where he could knock him unconscious, it makes no sense to me. If a Sox player hit A-Rod in the head tomorrow you guys mean to tell me you would take offense to it? I think the whole concept is ridiculous.

Thanks for asking V. I’ve left the city job… Man way too much back biting, and harassment. I’m working in Deerfield Beach now, making more $$ and my husband LOVES the minus ##itchiness factor!!!

What’s an easier target to hit? A catcher’s glove or a 6’1″, 220 lb man standing in one spot?

If Proctor is such a wild thing on the mound, that makes it all the more dangerous for him to try and pitch high and tight on batters to send a message.

So by this logic, either he knew what he was doing when he was throwing at Youk’s face, in which case he is legitimately sick in the head, or he generally has no idea where the ball is going to end up, in which case it makes little sense for him to have earned the status as one of Torre’s “go-to-guys”.

“Pedro aiming for hands is so much better.” Is that a joke? Of course it is. Can somebody die from a baseball hitting you in the hands? Did Tony C’s career end because he was hit in the hands?

To me it can be summed up like this. Usually when guys intentionally hit players, they throw maybe an 85 mph fastball (90 tops) at the torso. You guys honestly collectively feel Scott Proctor, who has random bouts with control (everytime he gets blown up its because of control, you can look at his appearence against the angels too), would throw a mid 90′s fastball at Youk’s head? You guys really, honestly believe that? On a 2-2 pitch?

Zach, Proctor earned the status of go to because his stuff is filthy. Farnsy is the setup man, you think he knows where he’s locating? That’s a weak argument.

And I’m going based on Proctor not aiming for Youk’s head, but aiming to hit him (if that), and in that case torso is better than hands.

To me, it makes sense it was a 2-2 pitch, Proctor was establishing the inside part of the plate on a leaning Youk, either getting him to chase or setting up something outside on the full count and the pitch got away, or in a less logical instance, he was aiming for the torso and it got away, either way I won’t ever believe he aimed for the head intentionally.

And you’re saying because he has control problems from time to time he should never pitch inside? That’s not baseball.

I would feel badly if someone intentionally hit ANYONE in the head, even AROD. MAN THAT’S JUST NOT RIGHT!!!
H ell I’d even feel that way if they hit Reggie Jackson in the head, although it couldn’t hurt much there!! But if he ARoddoesn’t want to get hit in the head he probably should never wear a blonde wig, they might just him him then from being unable to control the laughter!!!

If that’s the case no Sox pitcher should pitch inside because they hit yankees batters too often unintentionally.

lol ellen, the blonde wigs were a nice touch, gotta hand it to both fanbases, they always have some interesting heckling strategies.

Oh Vince!!! I know that there are alot of nick names in baseball, but Farnsworths hath to be the worthst..: FARSNY?? I keep looking for Potsy, Ralph, and Richie Cunningham when I here FARNSY!!!

PS and where are Joannie and Chachie??

hahahahaha. You can call him Farnsworthless if you want. That seems to apply to every team EXCEPT the Red Sox, whome for some reason he has good numbers against, which makes no sense whatsoever.

deerfield beach? You are pretty close, though I guess ft lauderdale is as well. Have you ever been to Bostons? I plan on going there to promote soxandpinstripes. I’m not entirely sure where it is but it is all things boston.

It’s hard to describe how bad Mussina is.

It would take a freaken psychiatrist rayman. Still can’t fault Cashman for the signing at the time though. I also think he will definitely improve from right now too.

Bostons is GREAT!!!,music, food, atmosphere and view. Though it as been a FEW years since I’ve been there. When are you planning to do this and will a Sox fan get beat up there?? LOL

hahaha, i’m not sure, some weekend soon, i also want to catch the braves marlins for my b day at the end of june.

Only if they mention the names “kevin” or “brown”….Or “game 7″ in the same sentence.

Vince, between the Sox and Yankees, NOTHING WHATSOEVER MAKES SENSE!! Except that we usually get to see the best that both teams have to offer whenever they meet!!!

I’m going to a Marlins game for my birthday. Would you care to guess which one I have tickets to???

I guess if I’m at Bostons and I say Bucky, Aaron, or Arod, with the expetives I’m OK!! Let me know when and I’m there!!

hahaha no problem!……do the Marlins play the Indians because then I think I have an idea.

I’m going on the 14th!!!! I can’t wait!!!! I’m truly glad that Trot is doing good. Did you see the ovations he got in Fenway…AWESOME!!!!

“Oh ok, Pedro aiming for hands is so much better.”

Vince – you really think aiming for the hands is the same as aiming for someone’s head? That’s what you seem to be saying above

“Pedro aiming for hands is so much better.” Is that a joke? Of course it is. Can somebody die from a baseball hitting you in the hands? Did Tony C’s career end because he was hit in the hands?

Posted by: zachary.zannino@conncoll.edu | June 3, 2007 12:46 AM

“And I’m going based on Proctor not aiming for Youk’s head, but aiming to hit him (if that), and in that case torso is better than hands.”

Posted by: yankeevmm@yahoo.com | June 3, 2007 12:49 AM

Hope that clarifies it for you Brendan.

Well as long as you accept that if Proctor aimed at Youk’s head, that is FAR worse than aiming at anybody’s hands, torso or anything else.

Brendan, if any part of me felt Proctor intentionally aimed for Youk’s head, now mind you that is not torso and that is if it was intentional, there is no way on god’s green earth I would condone or support that. Ever, with Bonds, with Manny, with anyone.

But just like Pedro in 2003 on Karim Garcia, there is nothing I can point to internally that leads me to believe it was intentionally aimed at the head.

Is there a reason Mientkiewicz wasn’t put in a neck brace and stretchered off? I don’t know whose call it is to do stuff like that but you have to be safe in these situations.

He didn’t even want the cart, so I’m guessing the cart itself was precautionary? That’s all I’ve got.

I can’t stand watching Lugo right now. No meaningful games. Petite 88 mph fastball right down the middle, what a joke. Pedroia’s nuts are 10 times the size and I have only said it a million times. Lugo needs to be send down to #8 or #9 before he does any more damage.

Notice they didn’t show a clear replay of that play at the plate.

Did you hear they finally diagnosed Clemen’s ailment? It’s called… “WaitingForAnNLCentralPatsy-itis of the groin”

Sit Lugo and play Cora for a few straight.Right hes a huge bust,move Crisp back at the top hes doing a little better right now

Bronx Bust? that’s fine, take your shots now s/u/x fans (if you can get off the debate of whether or not proctor was throwing at your precious Fluke Youk)

b/c The Run is about to start and we’re gonna take the red sox and fold em and put them back in the drawer where they belong (9 straight division titles)…and that’s two series wins in a row, baby, and you ****** haven’t even had any significant injuries yet

looks like A-Rod got the last laugh after all doesn’t it? GO YANKEES

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