Schill off the hill — for now

Curt Schilling will go on the disabled list on Friday, retroactive to Tuesday. That means the earliest he will pitch again is July 4 at home vs. the Devil Rays.

The good news is that there is nothing structurally wrong with his shoulder. It seems to be mainly a case of fatigue. This could be a blessing in disguise. Perhaps this will leave him with more in the tank at the end of the season.

Beckett and Tavarez will take their turns on normal rest Sunday and Monday. No word on who will start on Tuesday in Seattle. Don’t be so sure it will be Jon Lester. Judging by the numbers — five hits and three earned runs over five
innings, four walks, three striekouts — it was hardly dominant. The Red Sox have said all along they won’t bring him up a minute sooner than he is ready. Kason Gabbard has done a pretty nice job whenever the Sox have called him up. He’s also a candidate.

Talk to you later, back to work.

Ian.

86 Comments

Uhoh, Drew was taken out due to unknown reasons. The idiots (Phillips, Shulman) on ESPN are saying he got taken out because he was having a good start to the game and Francona wanted to keep his confidence up. haha what a joke. I hope he is okay though and not injured seriously

Anybody who hasn’t jumped on the Coco bandwagon yet, it’s not too late to jump on.

Y is Steve Phillips announcing a red sox game? He is obviously a 100% Yankee lover. How many times has phillips picked the Yankees to win the division or wild card. He even predicted (before the year) that the red sox were gonna finish third, after the Yanks and the Jays. He’s a joke. To me, he is very, very biased.

Drew has tightness in the quad and was taken out for precautionary measures.

http://statisticianmagician.mlblogs.com/

You might be out of your mind. Steve Phillips hates the Yankees just as much as the Sox and hates A-Rod most of all, probably because he refused to come to the Mets when they were an atrocity under his ruling.

How many times he picked the Yankees to win the division or wildcard? Umm, they’ve won the division every year since 1998, and made the playoffs since ’95, it is illegal for him to go with those odds until proven otherwise?

In case you haven’t noticed, he is also the first one to rule them finished when they start off slowly.

Just because someone with ESPN doesn’t favor the Sox or even treat them equally, doesn’t automatically make them a Yankees supporter, especially when you base it on choosing them to win a division of all things.

I should ask the same question about Jon Miller, Joe Morgan, Steve Phillips, Chris Berman and Tim Mccarver. Jeez.

ESPN, ugh… well, remember that they’re based in Bristol, CT so they’re all Yankees fans there, but Steve Phillips is just an *** anyway.

Watch NESN! RemDog is acting president of Red Sox Nation!

Okay, now to Curt; if there’s nothing physically wrong with his shoulder then that’s worse because it means there’s a different kind of problem, and I’m not buying ‘fatigue’ either. He never should have stepped on the hill Monday.

7-0 in the 5th right now, I’m a happy girl! YoYo looks great tonight! And lets give Coco the love he deserves too!

So now ESPN wants to do a Julian Tavarez conspiracy theory huh? They’re talkin about how he takes the ball with him after every inning. Conspiracy? Yea right.

ATTABOY MAN-MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!! Papi and Manny both went deep tonight. This looks reeli good for us tonight.

Nina, CT is New England. It tends to be split between NY and Boston fans, Bristol tends to favor Boston and most of those guys are from New England. I’m not sure where you guys are getting this information that ESPN suddenly favors the Yankees.

Ortiz and Crisp getting hot has got to be a good sign for the Sox.

All the announcers keep bringing up is how Julian keeps going to his forehead, then the back of his neck and that he keeps taking th eball when he leaves the field… It does look a bit suspicious.

I wonder if ‘ole Curt will spend his DL time hawking other ridiculous ideas like his game company or his voice for GPS?

He does good work for ALS, but he needs to realize he’ a 40 year old baseball player, not a celebrity.

I don’t think Phillips is a Yankee lover at all and why should he be, he worked for the hated Mets all those years. For some reason he just has a beef against the Sox tonight, I haven’t minded him in the past. That said, I enjoyed O’Brien/Sutcliffe/Baker on Monday way more than these two.

ESPN is not all that pro-Red Sox, I mean they are doing a special on the 76 Yankees called the Bronx is Burning. I seem to think all these national networks appear to not like the Yanks because they want parody so all different fans will watch and the Yankees seem to always win.

Beckett missed 2 starts and the Red Sox actually extended there lead in the division and who knows maybe when Schilling returns back there lead might be double-digits again!!! Oritz and Ramirez are starting to hit the long ball, look out everyone!!! Red Sox this weekend vs San Diego have to go against Young, Maddux and Peavey,now that is rough!!!! Peavey is going to win the Cy Young in the N.L. this year!!! Yankees hit the West Coast for the 3rd time this year and the Red Sox are back on the West Coast again!!! This East vs West in interleague play is foolish!!!

Wow I officially feel bad for Lugo, he should have at least 3 hits tonight especilly there with Tek forced at 3rd. When your going bad, your going bad.

What the hey got into Coco???? Does that **** or what but Sammy Sosa just hit his 600th H.R…His first ever vs Cubs, is that weird or what!!! He now has homered against every team in baseball!!! He will not get into the Cooperstown on the first ballot, NO WAY!!!

Wow, we actually won on ESPN!!! LOL! Shutout numero 7 on the year. One more than last year.

I criticize (sp) when I think it’s due and I also give credit the same way. Big credits to JD, Julian and Coco (whose sessions with Magadin seem to be paying off big!). Everyone got on the big HR bus tonight, way to go guys!! Good game. Off tomorrow, and in SD for the weekend. Keep it going SOX!!!

I hope that Curt will be back to his form of the Oakland game after he comes back. They say JD was taken out due to “precautionary” reasons; tightness in his right quad (where is that?? and does the everyday person have one??) Can you tell I’m really into the fitness scene?

It seems as if Manny and Papi and getting into their groove for HR’s.

Any way, keep it going SOX!!

G’Night Nationers. ec

Hopefully tonight was rock bottom for Lugo, because he stung the ball in his first 4 at-bats and then had a hit turned into a fielder’s choice in his 5th.

Tavarez’s ERA is now 4.50 and Manny is officially hitting .300 so those are some welcome signs. Coco just looks so much better at the plate in the past couple of games, apparently Mags has him standing more straight in his stance and it’s definitely working as the average continues to climb to respectablity at .250.

I also love it whenever Hinske does something positive for the team, he just seems to be a likeable guy.

Nina, I am a huge RS fan. You can’t REALLY be serious when you say that the reporters from ESPN are Yankee fans, can you??
They are THE original “till the day they die” RedSox Homers, with the exception of Joe Morgan… he just has his lips firmly in place around ARODS Bhuttocks. They, for the most part, LOVE The RedSox.

the only reason I so avidly am shocked by that ESPN is biased towards the Yankees comment is because I go to school with a lot of interns at Bristol, many of whom are Sox fans and they themselves say EVERYBODY up top is Red Sox fans. There are a handful of Yankees fans but all the main guys either have no allegiance, dislike the yankees, dislike both or favor the Red Sox.

Hey RSN, you lovin’ the Rockies now?
Bristol itself is probably shaded a little to the Sox side in the rivalry, but ESPN, they were pronouncing the Yankees dead in May! We all knew better than that.

It’s better for Schilling to get his shoulder back in shape than to go out and pitch batting practice every 5th day.

I TOLD you Coco would start to hit!

And I have to eat my words about Julian; he is pitching fabulously. And sparking controversy by taking his hat off and rubbing his head and then tossing the baseball into the crowd! Those announcers just needed something to say, it was a boring game from a competitive standpoint, not much drama. 11 to 0 is not a nail-biter.

Arnie, I heart the Rockies, lol.

Seriously, I think we all haven’t taken them seriously. The NL West has gone from being a joke from several years ago to a division that’s really freakin’ good. Including Colorado.

Time to jump onto the Coco-Train if you haven’t jumped on ladies and gentlemen. Now if Lugo starts hitting, I’ll be 3 for 3 (sort of) with my prediction, hehe.

ESPN is exactly like Vince said: they don’t care but they love to flame the fires of the rivalry.

Oh and also, how’s about Tavarez?

He’s been rockin’ the house and he’s like sort of become the Kevin Millar of ’04 :-)

Pacol, you and I can co-conduct the Coco Train since it is about to leave the station.

Although I’m still not sold on Lugo, I didn’t think it was a bad signing at the time but he looks pretty hopeless at the plate right now. The good news? It can’t get much worse for him.

>>It can’t get much worse for him.

It always can. Don’t ever think that.

That being said, I think Tavarez is in a good groove. Maybe he’ll get a CG soon?

Speaking of Kevin Millar…wouldn’t he be a nice late season signing…providing some pop off the bench and he’s able to play infield as well as outfield positions. Not to mention his biggest asset of what he brings to the clubhouse. Would be nice to have him for the ws run. Lugo…who knows about him, they said in the beginning that he would thrive in the sox type of atmoshpere..guess they were wrong..too bad we didnt resign gonz. Im sure he had even better offense numbers and way better defense.

I think most sports announcers are pretty useless anyway. They almost always seem be deathly afraid of letting more than two seconds go by without something being said, which means they have to come up with something to fill the air time. Once in a while they come up with some insightful info, but for the most part I think they should cut their commentary in half.

Most pitchers have a routine that they go through before every pitch, probably without even thinking of it. Tavarez’s happens to be adjusting his hat and wiping his neck. While he pitched well, he didn’t have remarkable movement on the ball, which is probably why the ump didn’t see any reason to believe that he was doctoring the ball. Let’s give the umps some credit here.

Let’s also give Tavarez a huge hand for his attitude. In the midst of pitching some very good games, he comes out and says he’d be fine with going to the bullpen if and when it’s necessary. He just wants to pitch. That kind of attitude is awesome for a ballclub. I have a great deal of respect for the guy.

Ellen: “Quad” is short for quadricep, which is the group of four muscles (hence quad from the Latin for “four”) located on the front of your thigh.

Nina: I’d love to watch NESN, but it’s not part of any regular cable package in our area, and I ain’t paying the extra $170 for digital cable PLUS the MLB Extra Innings charge just to listen to Jerry Remy. I can’t imagine he’s all that much better than the rest of them.

Coco & Drew started hitting which is a good thing. But both are still hitting below .250. We can clearly see the results when these 2 start hitting along with the rest of the lineup(except Lugo). 5-1 in the last 6 games(Could have been 6-0 if not for Schil’s tired arm).

Lugo is htting at the Mendoza line. At the rate he is going he will reach the LUGO LINE(.100) by all star break.

The “Lugo Line”….That’s great!
Actually robn, Remy isn’t that bad. I’m in Florida so I get the extra innings package so I can watch as much as possible. I’m not just saying this because he’s a Sox announcer, but he and Don Orsillo are actually fun to listen to. They joke around, have a good time and are for the most part, impartial. If Manny takes a called 3rd strike and doesn’t like the call, Remy has no problem saying it was a good pitch, etc. The White Sox and the Tigers guys are the WORST. It’s one thing to be a “homer” for your team, but these guys take it to another level.

About Lugo, talk about no luck at all. I guess when you’re bad you can’t get a break. Lugo gets what would have been a single to right and Tek thought it was going to be caught, and winds up getting thrown out at 3rd. Unreal.

Sox will be facing Chris Young, Peavy, Maddux & Felix Hernandez in the next 4 out of 5 games. That should be good test for our offense.

Orsillo and Remy are great because if the game is not entertaining itself, they will find something interesting to talk about. I remember one game they spent an entire inning talking about a shirtless fan in the stands whose chest was completely covered in hair.

There used to be a clip on Youtube of Manny petting Tavarez’s head on the bench for a solid 3 minutes and the NESN announcers commentary on it but I can’t find it right now. Suffice to say, Orsillo can barely talk his way through the inning because he is laughing so hard.

I have to apologize to Tavarez now for sure. He’s definitely getting the job done.

If there is going to be any blockbuster trade this year, its got to be for ****. There is now way we can go the whole year with Lugo hitting .200. His defense isn’t really any good either. There should be plenty of SS available… Tejada and Michael Young should be. I’m not sure Cora is the right answer either full time.

Is this finally when we call up Lester? 2.49 ERA in 43 innings with Pawsox… pretty good.

Maybe Tavarez is turning out to be good trade bait? You don’t need 5 starters in the playoffs. If Lester comes up and is effective, we should probably trade a pitcher for ****.

2 of the funniest moments of the year were the pizza throwing incident. Those guys could not stop laughing.
The other was just last week at home when they were playing Colorado. They were doing a taping of the new show “Sox Appeal” and this one tool just looked like an idiot. He made a funny face and Remy and Don spent the next 10 minutes laughing and ragging on this guy. It was the only enjoyable part of the Schilling game that night

I love that thought Rayman, but I’ve read that Young is the only untouchable that Texas has right now. They’ll trade anyone but him. Who knows about the new GM in Baltimore, but they have been hesitant to trade within the division.
Also, the Sox are basically paying Rent-A-Wreck’s contract right now, so if they were to find a team dumb enough to take Lugo, they’d probably want the Sox to pony up for some of his contract as well.

That could conceivably be over $20/year paid to 2 different shortstops that aren’t even here.

As much as we all can’t stand Lugo right now, I just can’t see Theo trading him. That would basically be admitting that he’s screwed up the last 4 short stop deals he’s made.

Tavarez also used to pitch relief, and Joel also used to be a starter, so I don’t see a problem in playoffs.

yankeevmm@yahoo.com,
are you even from new england? bristol, ct is definitely not split equally between yankee and red sox fans (and what about the mets?) in this part of CT the majority is Yankees. Believe me, I know. it *****.

and i definitely agree that the announcers are yankee fans. about what joe buck & tim mccarver? those 2 are idiots. when the red sox are on fox, i put it on mute and listen to them announce it on the radio instead. lol..why can’t fox get better announcers??

I go to school there. And like I said, the people who work for ESPN are not from Bristol, many are from New England or simply not from NY and Bristol is part of CT, which is part of NE, though the state as a whole is split with a few mets fans mixed in.

There is no way you will get anyone in the country outside of select people on this blog to believe ESPN favors the Yankees, you just won’t because it is unbelievably far from the truth. Again, not favoring the Red Sox at certain times does not mean you favor the Yankees, it means you don’t favor the Sox. Mccarver and Buck are Fox announcers, Mccarver is terrible and a self admitted Mets fan, no Yankees bias there, Buck tends to favor the history of the game itself and yes, sometimes the Yankees. Though he is a Cardinals fan.

The NESN announcers are great, I never mind watching them when im in CT and can watch both games. They are very entertaining and fairly objective.

ESPN favors the “flavor of the week” or whatever the story is. They have actually been real hard on the Yankees and easy on the Sox this because because of their respective records. They just go with whatever the national concensus is at the time.
Rick Sutcliffe is a guy that annoys the heck out of me. He is one announcer that totally fits mold of “flavor of the week”. If he’s doing a Sox game, like he did Monday night, he’s in love with them because they are in 1st. But once Schill started getting knocked around, Sutcliff starts talking about all the holes in the Sox’ lineup, etc.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining because he wasn’t loving on the Sox. He does it with everyone. If he does a Yankees game, he starts off talking about how inconsistant they’ve been this year. Then, if the Yanks are winning, he talks about how great they are.

Those are just Sox and Yanks examples because that’s pretty much all we concern ourselves with anyway, but this guy does it with every team he announces. He brings nothing to the telecast. That’s the benefit of the extra innings package…you don’t have to subject yourselves to Sutcliff or Joe Morgan if you don’t want to.

I’ve been surprised by Dusty Baker. At first I thought he was just a mush mouth, but he’s pretty funny. Doesn’t say much, but when he says something, it makes sense and provides some insight.

My problem with the ESPN guys is that they’re simply bad announcers. Mispronouncing people’s names (and no, I’m not talking about something difficult like Saltalamachia or however it’s spelled); calling people by the wrong name (it’s Dustin Pedroia, not Justin); and simply calling guys by the completely wrong name (one time they kept saying Manny was at the plate when it was Pena). That’s just bad announcing and makes you look bad no matter what bias you may or may not have. Also the ESPN guys are just plain boring as well.
McCarver and Buck are atrocious. Whenever the Yanks play the Sox all they talk about is a Yanks record or a Yanks stat or what’s been going on with them. They forget to mention anything associated with the Sox outside of the guy currently at the plate. Like someone else here said, I tend to mute the FOX games because it gets so irritating after about 15 seconds.

Wow!

Dice-K vs. Chris Young

Wakefield vs. Maddux

Beckett vs. Peavy

We have our work cut out for us. But so do they!

If anyone cares to check out my All Star votes then click the link below.

http://statisticianmagician.mlblogs.com/

http://statisticianmagician.mlblogs.com/

Gowsoxred, its hilarlious how you say you hate it when hte ESPN guys slur the names of players . . . . well you said it was Rick Sutcliff, its Rick Sutcliffe. Thats taking the word hypocrite to the extreme.

Rayman, you said that Tavarez is trade material because in the playoffs you only need 5 starters well…..

1) the trade deadline isn’t till July

2) who knows, we might need him as the season progresses, injuries et cetera . .

3) we aren’t in the playoffs yet

I would give Lugo till the deadline to prove himself, we could platoon Cora and him till that option and time presents itself. Since the introduction of Cal Ripken the shortstop has been increasingly thought of as a offensive position. In truth its really a defensive based position.

I read something interesting in a David Halberstam book “Summer of ’49” (it chronicles the pennat race between the Tribe, the Yanks, and Sox that season, good read.). . . . a solid shortstop produces a World champion team. Take the Dimaggio Yankees with Rizzuto, or the equaly great Dodgers in the National League with Pee Wee Reese. Even more recently Jeter and the 97-2000 Yankees and our 2004 championship team with the combo of Pokey and O-Cab.

The only problem with that assumption is that the Yankees haven’t won in 7 years . . . still pitching and defense wins.

Kumar, yes Coco and Drew are hitting below .250, but that is over the whole season. Their averages over the last few games is much higher, and that is a good sign they may be turning it around. I think it’s a little too soon to say Coco has completely come out of the slump as he’s only been hot for the Atlanta series, but I think it’s safe to say that Drew is out of his slump.

For the record, Lugo hasn’t been sparking with the glove either. He’s made some nice plays but he also is not exactly keeping the errors out of his game. For as good as the left side of that infield was defensively last year, it is bad this year. Lowell is making up for it with his bat, Lugo is not….So far.

rsjones, I’m so sorry that I didn’t have the name directly in front of me when I was typing Sutcliffe’s name. How absolutely ignorant and hypocrytical of me!! What was I thinking? Next time I’ll be sure to run spell check so that I can meet your standards. Besides, what does misspelling a name have to do with jumping from one ship to another in regards to favoritism? Obviously you didn’t understand the point I was making.

Vince, nice to see you still around. I’ve been gone a while and recognize a few people still on here. (rayman,ellen, etc) Long time no talk. Kevin

True about Lugo, I said yesterday….one weak link might be accepted if they at least made up for it in the field, but Lugo does neither.

Interesting you returned today, I just mentioned you on “blogging the bombers” Mark’s semi new blog.

Yeah, some of the regulars are still around over here, a lot more remain on Mark’s blog, these new people are nice too for the most part, lol.

Wow, pretty ironic. Almost done at the same time. Thanks for the kind words.
I’ve been keeping up with both of the blogs just to see what’s being talked about, but haven’t added my 2 cents in a while due to work constraints.

Hope all is well with everyone.

Look forward to good insight/conversation going forward.

In his last 10 games, Coco Crisp is 14-for-35 (.400) with 3 HR and 5 RBI. He has raised his batting average 26 points and has been heating up for the past 2 weeks. So right now I would not hesitate to say say that he is hot (aka out of his slump).

And why would we trade Tavarez? He has said multiple times that he is willing to do whatever is best for the team, has been a solid #5 guy, and is a big part of the team chemistry. If there’s somebody we should be dumping in a trade, it should be Pineiro because IF YoYo goes back to the bullpen, we won’t have any need for three long relievers (Tavarez, Snyder, and Pineiro). And Pineiro is definitely the weakest of the three and maybe some team will want to slide him into their rotation since he has experience there.

I really think trading a non-superstar key player would be detrimental to the team identity. Somebody compared Tavarez to Millar in ’04 and I think that’s a good comparison.

Although the team is far from perfect, I don’t see any realistic trade they can make that can make them better. And I’m not saying this because I think the Sox are unbeatable, it just seems the key positions are filled. The big spot that the Sox are weak in, is short stop. I don’t think anyone would take Lugo at this point and I mentioned earlier that trading him would make Theo look like he’s failed once again in the shortstop department. No way he wants to pay for 2 short stops not on the roster. We’re not going to trade any of the other starting 7 fielders or any of the starting 5 pitchers. (Coco maybe, but at this point, I’d settle for .250 if he is going to give us 1-2 web gems every night. The rotation is locked in even with Schill on the DL. I think if he doesn’t come off in 15 days, maybe they would look for an arm, but with Lester in the waiting, it’s like a trading deadline aquisition in it’s own right there.
Piniero is scary. He can make a hitter look foolish, then give up a walk and a double then 2 runs just like that.

Looking at the 25 man roster, Pineiro and Wily Mo seem like the only people to use as trade bait.(No one will take Lugo) We all know Wily Mo has untapped “potential”, but that is almost the worst compliment you could give a player. Potential is another way of saying, if he was good enough to play every day, he’d be decent.

However, if you trade Wily Mo, you lose that 4th OF just in case someone gets hurt. Hinske is decent and seems like an awesome guy, but do we want him playing every day?

Basically, what I’m rambling on and on about is the fact that the positions we need to fill are short stop and maybe another reliever. The only people we should trade (Lugo and Piniero) don’t have much trade value or are impossible to trade.

My unvalued and uneducated guess is that the most the Sox do at the deadline is pick up another bullpen arm (if there is even one available) and ditch Piniero.

We’ve mentioned that Tavarez is a great clubhouse guy. He’s also Manny’s best friend. This is like being married. If your wife ain’t happy, you ain’t happy. Even if Tavarez wasn’t doing as well as he is now, the Sox might have kept him around just to keep Manny happy. He is to Manny what Jack Haley was to Dennis Rodman. (Except Tavarez is actually producing)

Wow, that was a long post…sorry guys.

For those of you who think that Julio Lugo is a poor defensive shortstops, you are wrong. Check the stats. Among shortstops who have played 60 or more games, he is fourth in the AL with a .969 fielding percentage and among starting shortstops he has the fourth fewest errors with nine. Jeter has a .965 fielding percentage and 11 errors.

Lugo is an exceptional fielding shortstops. His Achilles heel is the occasional errant throw. Lugo is not a defensive liability. Before you make a statement, be sure to check the stats or you will embarrass yourself.

And though Lowell has more errors than usual, he is still an excellent defensive third baseman. Players go through fielding slumps just as they endure hitting slumps. I am very confident in the Sox defense, even Manny in left, who is much better than people give him credit for.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

Gosoxred, I agree that Pineiro is expendable, but Lugo is not. He is signed to a four-year deal, and he is actually producing with stolen bases, RBI and decent defense (read my previous post about that). He is showing signs of breaking out of his slump. He pounded the ball each time he stepped to the plate last night. Look for him to have a solid series in San Diego.

The Sox have a $3.85 million option on Julian Tavarex next season. It would be very surprising if they didn’t pick it up. Like you said, he is a popular player in the clubhouse, and a close friend of Manny. Since Schilling and Wakefield might not be back next season, Tavarez could serve as the No. 5 starter, or he will be a valuable part of the bullpen.

I think the Sox will certainly acquire a right-handed reliever at the trading deadline, and perhaps another starting pitcher, if Schilling is not healthy. I do think that Gabbard could be a valuable part of the rotation, if given the chance, as well as Lester.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

Since June 3rd, Lugo has had 1 RBI. And I totally agree that his RBI total is solid for a (former) leadoff hitter, but unfortunately that production has tapered off immensely in the past month. Also, I would love to find out how many of his RBI’s were the result of a fielder’s choice or sacrafice fly, because even when his RBI total was going up, his average was moving down.

As for his ability to steal bases with great success, I can’t argue with you there. The only downside to this is he is 0 for his last 12 with one walk. Lugo’s ability to steal bases right now is about as valuable to the club as Wily Mo Pena’s “untapped potential”.

The bottom line is there is ZERO room in ANY major league lineup for a .200 hitter who ranks “4th best” in fielding percentage. Alex Gonzalez hit .255 last year and Theo didn’t re-sign him because he wanted more offensive production at the SS position. Well he’s gotten less production and worse fielding from Lugo.

I recognize that Lugo has been a disappointment so far, and that his .201 average does not offset what he has done in regards to stolen bases, RBI and decent defense; however, it is too early to say he is a bust and too acquire another shortstop. I didn’t say Lugo was out of his slump because he hit the ball hard five times last night, but that is a sign that he is seeing the ball better. He would have had a hit if not for Varitek being forced out at third on a throw from right field. And Willie Harris robbed Lugo of extra bases with a tremendous diving catch. I think everyone will have a different feeling about Lugo after this weekend, and in the second half. Crisp and Drew are hitting the ball better. Lugo will do the same. He is too good not to.

And I agree with you about the passion of Boston fans. All is well, even with Schilling on the DL and Lugo hitting .201. The lead over the Yankees is back to double digits, and the Sox are still not playing at their best. I think the second half will be even better.

From earlier: I think that the unlikely are now stepping up and looking to stay in the light. Cocohas been great, Dustin (I shy away from calling him DP because of the “double play” connotation) is really catching fire. Lat night they were saying how he’ll be “hitting ropes all night” soon enough. JD is starting to come along, I hope the injury to the quad (I asked kast night what the lleh that is) isn’t too bad or benching. I’ve said many times this year that the word TEAM seems to really be back in our guys daily vocabulary lesson. It’s showing that we as Sox fans have a team that is truly creating a chemistry. There is a true coheviseness about them. I’M LIKING IT VERY VERY MUCH.

ps: Vince are you coming down here next week for the game??

Jeff, I have read many of your posts and I respect your opinion, however I have to disagree in regards to Lugo. While Lugo may not have the errors to prove his subpar defense, I don’t feel I’m “embarrasing” myself by saying he’s not a great defensive short stop. I’ve seen almost every game this season and I’ll go back to a post I made yesterday. I have not seen Lugo make a play this season that makes me go “wow”. I’m not saying he has to be Alex Gonzalez over there, but his lack of range, or inability to charge a ball prevents him from making errors that other average shortstops would make.
So in a sense, NO, he doesn’t have the errors to show a lower fielding percentage. However, his inability to get to balls that other short stops get to does limit his effectiveness. He is a serviceable fielding shortstop in my opinion at best.

I know from your knowledge Jeff, that you can’t really think going 0-5 with a few line drives could constitute him coming out of his slump.

Hey, I’ll be as happy as anyone here if he breaks out, but as long as he’s hitting 8th this weekend, that’s 2 automatic outs in the 8,9 spot in San Diego. (actually, Beckett pitches Sunday..maybe he’ll hit 8th!)

I go back to the game Sunday when Lugo couldn’t get the bunt down with 1st and 2nd and no one out. When he popped up, the crowd let him have it. Knowing our fans the way we do, if he doesn’t do anything in the next 6 games on the road, he is going to get CRUSHED by the fans when he gets back to Fenway. If that’s the case, he might not mentally be able to handle it.

All this being said, the season has been great. But we woudn’t be true Boston fans if we didn’t have something to pick on, right? Things could be a lot worse than compaining about a short stop on a 1st place team.

Somebody correct me on this if I’m wrong, but is our hitting coach the former Padres hitting coach?

If so, that may explain the patient bats, but that’ll explain why we’re not hitting as hard as we used to. And Lugo is a prime example of that.

gosoxred, Lugo may get mentally crushed, and Theo may have to eat his contract if there are any trade rumors in regards to him.

Anyway, I’m hungry, so I’ll catch y’all on the flipside. :-D

And by the way, the Rockies swept the Yanks if ya haven’t noticed. :-D

I recognize that Lugo has been a disappointment so far, and that his .201 average is not offset by his stolen bases, RBI and decent defense. And I understand that, just because he hit the ball hard five times last night, he is not out of his slump. However, it is a sign that he is seeing the ball better. He should have had two hits last night – one was taken away by an exceptional diving catch from Willie Harris, and another was eliminated when Varitek was forced out at third on a throw from right field. Drew and Crisp are hitting the ball better. Lugo will do the same. He is too good not to. I think Lugo has decent range; he just has issues with throwing at times. It was the same when he was in Tampa Bay. I do agree that, as Sox fans, we nitpick, even when all is well. Even though Schilling is on the DL and Lugo is hitting .201, the Sox are 46-25 and 10.5 games ahead of the second place team. The Sox have done this with three hitters (Drew, Crisp and Lugo) struggling for most of the season, and Manny only heating up in the last month. I think they will play even better as a team in the second half.

Strange, my first response about Lugo a few minutes ago did not show up, so I retyped it, and not both posts are showing up. I guess there is a slight delay with posting comments tonight!

Oh and about Rem-Dawg and Don, they’re freakin’ hilarious. I can still watch game we’re losing because they somehow manage to entertain even when the game isn’t.

That’s what makes those ESPN and FOX games even more unbearable when we’re losing…

Yeah Ellen, June 30th.

Jeff, you can’t call people wrong for saying Lugo is bad because of stats and then call Lowell’s season a defensive “slump”. Jeter had 3 errors the first two games of the season and has had 6 in a span of 4 games, how is that not a slump? You can’t apply that logic to one guy and then completely try to use stats to steamroll another regardless of what team he plays for.

The Yankees defense, for the record, despite all the criticism it takes, has had 2 errors in the last 15 games, which is the best in the league over that span.

One thing that I have to give some credit to Theo for: while some of this was already in place before he got to Boston, our farm system produces and produces well.

Examples: Pedroia, Youkilis, Gabbard, and Lester. And don’t forget about Ellsbury.

And really, especially Youkilis and Pedroia.

Jeff, posts have weird for me as well…something to do with MLB’s servers perhaps? Maybe they forgot to use their cream and clear… ;-)

Vince, not just the Yankees themselves, but just look at A-Rod’s error count at 3B; darn good if you ask me.

Vince, I never said a word “steamrolling” Jeter. ALl I did was present his fielding percentage and error total. Jeter is regarded as a solid defensive shortstop, and Lugo has better fielding numbers this year. As for Lowell, he certainly does not have the type of fielding numbers he has posted for most of his career, but I am still comfortable with him at third base for the Sox. I’m sure his hitting will return to normal when he fully recovers from the sprained thumb.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

I agree with you about Lugo Jeff. I’m not happy with how he is hitting but there is too much history there to suggest he won’t break out of this funk. It is no coincidence either that we seem to have shipped on other shortstops before they have had a chance to get fully comfortable (particularly Renteria who I think is batting .330). The fact is, we have a ten game lead and I think it is worth waiting for Lugo to come around – the fact is at the moment we can afford to.

Also, I have been very impressed with the Rockies. Taking 5 out of 6 from the Sox and Yankees is no mean feat. They hit well, play good defense and seem to have good pitching, both starting and out of the bullpen.

Not sure how many of you feel about interleague play, but the one thing that I look forward to is seeing the Sox play in parks that they never get to. I looked forward to the Arizona series and I’m looking forward to this one in San Diego.
I’m really interested in which team is going to show up.

The team the beat up Matt Morris, who had been very effective so far this year? Or the team that scored one run against a just as effective Matt Cain.

The team that got shut down by Chuck James Moneay night or the team that beat up Tim Hudson Tuesday night?

Should be a real entertaining weekend vs. Maddox, Young and Peavy.

I’m still confused how the Rockies aren’t in first place in their division. They have a good lineup and their pitching has done pretty well against the top 2 teams in the AL East.

Not sure how much this has been talked about but you gotta love how well this season’s version of the Sox is constructed:

1. Starting Pitching – With 3 “ace” type pitchers long losing streaks will not happen. Even with Schilling out you still have Beckett and Dice-K.

2. Kyle Snyder – With the plethora of crappy releivers still pitching in the majors its a wonder more teams don’t look toward the starters who didn’t cut it like Snyder.

3. Depth – Drew’s out for a bit, well throw in a Wily Mo to get him some at bats. Hinske, although he’s not hitting well now has power off the bench and can play both corners. Gabbard, et al for a spot start. Need a reliever pull up Declarmen, and the show goes on.

4. “Moneyball” check the stats – 4 Sox starting batters (Ortiz, Pedroia, Manny, Youk) have OBPs above the 0.400 mark!!

I think Theo needs some props for putting this team together.

First, Jeter is a below average defensive shortstop. Second, Lugo is not exceptional at all, read “The Fielding Bible.”

Jeff in the past Jeter may have been looked at as a “solid SS” because he doesn’t make a bunch of errors, but it is his lack of range, especially going to his left, that well…lacks.

http://statisticianmagician.mlblogs.com/

It’s one thing to have the luxury of holding a large lead over the rest of the AL East in May when your players (mainly Pedroia( are struggling because there is plenty of baseball left for the slumping player to find his groove. And in Pedroia’s case, he did and the patience paid off.

But it is almost July and Lugo is dangerously close to hitting under .200 while playing basically everyday. I would probably rate him as one of the worst everyday players in the MLB right now. At a certain point you have to think that he’s not going to suddenly “snap out of it”. I mean, what’s more likely: Lugo hitting .400 for the rest of the season or continuing to put up similarly disappointing numbers?

Does anybody know of any SS in the farm system who look promising? Because I really think Theo is cursed with signing free agent shortstops, therefore he should just bring up a home-grown talent and stop blowing so much money on busts. This way, if the rookie shortstop doesn’t work out, at least Theo won’t have to eat another $20 million contract.

Jeter is not one of those players that can be evaluated statistically. I’m not a huge Jeter fan, but bad range or no range, fielding stats notwithstanding, he does more for the Yankees every day than any other shortstop in baseball. He very often doesn’t make great plays with his glove, he makes them with his head. I’m not sure there’s a smarter player in the game.

That being said, the best shortstop in baseball is playing third base for the Yankees. If I’m starting a team, it begins with A-Rod at shortstop.

You know how hard all that is to say for an avid Sox fan?

I’ll be honest zac, I don’t know of any middle infielders that we have groomed down there. It seems all we’ve heard about is Ellsbury, Moss, Bucholtz as the future. Jeff knows a lot more about our farm club, maybe if he sees this he can help us out.
In regards to short stop, I think we’re stuck gang. Again, no one will take Lugo and eat his contract, so Francona is going to have to continue to put him in the lineup because he is so expensive.

I agree though, the first month or two can be used as “getting established”, warming up, etc but when it’s 2 weeks from the All Star break and you’re hitting .200, something is wrong.

Hindsight is 20/20, but having Alex Gonzalez’ .275/10/75 with incredible defense sure would have been nice this year.

Posted by: pacol250@yahoo.com | June 22, 2007 12:57 AM

You forgot Papelbon. And how can you not include Clay buchholz or Michael Bowden.

I actually meant people on the farm now. I was referring to who we have down there that would be able to help us out. I mentioned buchholtz, forgot Bowden.
Now that I look at your post, I think you’re referring to the post from earlier this morning. If so, my bad

Padres shuffled thier roation so Maddux pitches Vs Dice-K. Young was supposed to pitch today actually.***** Padres.

Jeter’s an awesome total player. You can argue all the stats you want, but he has been a cornerstone of the success they’ve had since he became an everyday player. Made a huge blunder on the bases yesterday, though. Fifth inning I think, he was on second, nobody on first and A-Rod at bat. Ball hit to left center, and Jeter winds up getting caught in a run-down between second and third. Posada then gets a base hit that probably would have scored Jeter. In what wound up being a one-run game, it was a big mistake. Of course, in a one-run game, both of the solo homers that Clemens gave up had exactly the same effect, so you can’t pin the loss on Jeter.

Personally, I predict A-Rod and Jeter both make it into the HOF on their first ballots (like I’m going out on a limb with THAT one).

Kumar: yeah I have no idea how I forgot Papelbon, hehe. He’d probably bean me in the head with a fastball, lol.

Also, I was only really referring to the players we’ve recently seen at the big league level. Gabbard was in the rotation enough last year, so while he’s still at Pawtucket at the moment, he’s had big league experience.

The Sox have some decent shortstop prospects at the low levels of the minors, but only Jed Lowrie (at Double-A Portland) is a Major League caliber shortstop right now, and he has experienced an up and down minor league career since being drafted out of Stanford. If the Sox are not pleased with Lugo after this season, their only option is to try to unload him and either sign a free agent shortstop or acquire one in a trade because there is no immediate help at the position in the minors.

Jeff

http:/www.soxandpinstripes.com

Like I said, don’t give up on Lugo. I think that by the second half of the season we will forget he ever slumped, just like we have forgotten that Dustin Pedroia was once hitting .182.

Jeter is a hall of famer, but it isnot because of his defense. Some “statisticians/experts” say that he is the absolute worst fielding SS in baseball. I don’t know if he is that terrible, but he is definitely below average. And he is smart, but does that make him good on defense? From what I hear he is cheating so much one way that he gets to some of those balls, but it leads a huge gap on the other side. He has a strong arm, and is smart. But his lack of range is what is so noticeable. He is not an awesome “total” player. He is an awesome offensive player. Check out the Hardball Times link.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/d-fence

http://statisticianmagician.mlblogs.com/

(cue Vince’s outrage at the above allegations)

We have forgotten Dustin Pedroia was hitting .182 because it was only for the first month of the season, and since then he has hit consistently. It only takes a strong 2 weeks of hitting to right your average when it’s that early in the season.

The last time Julio Lugo was hitting at least .280 was April 19th. He has been in a prolonged slump since then. Unless he decides to hit .400 for the next 3 months, I really doubt anybody will forget Lugo’s troubles at the plate.

My point is that the season is too far along for him to right himself (from a statistical standpoint). I think I am being generous when I say that I would be thrilled if he ended up hitting .250 on the year. How pathetic is that for somebody slated to be our leadoff hitter for the next 4 years?

With that, I’m not giving up on him as a Red Sox player. But this year has not been a good start to his career in Boston, so my hopes are that he continues to play a solid shortstop and picks it up offensively in the 2nd half. I don’t care if he doesn’t ever have another RBI this year, I just want him on base somehow so that he can serve as a stolen base threat.

I’ve changed my mind: if Julio Lugo hits .240 and steals 50 bases this year, you will not hear any complaints from me.

hahha no, I’ve heard and read that argument before. I’ll take a .500 average with RISP, a .300+ average and a man capable of making a flip or diving into the stands to save a season over a guy who lets the one ball a game go by him where a better shorstop gets to his left quicker.

Well I guess you dont believe in the numbers. Jeter is an asset, because his offense is so potent. Even if he is hurting his team defensively, he is more than making up for it on the offensive side of the ball, and has unmeasurable intangibles. That wasn’t my argument. And he has heart, and will go into the stands, but he could do that from any position. Why can’t Yankee fans admit it? I have heard a few admit that he is a poor SS, but almost all of them deny it. I admit that Manny is a terrible LF, but looks decent playing the wall at Fenway, but what Manny does on offense makes up for it. Although Manny’s lack of hustle at times is inexcusable.

http://statisticianmagician.mlblogs.com/

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