Papi is back and so am I

While David Ortiz rested the last few days, I was in a blog-free zone. Sorry about that, and I don’t have any excuses. But I’m back to blog away, starting tonight. And Ortiz is back in the lineup.

I’m here at the Jake by the Lake. I think Oil Can Boyd would agree that it’s a nice ballpark on the ocean. That was one of my favorite quotes ever. It came after the Red Sox and Indians had the majority of their game fogged out in 1986 at cavernous Municipal Stadium. Boyd said, "That’s what happens when you build a ballpark on the ocean." Classic.

It’s a little cloudy here, but not too foggy. We might get a shower or two, but this, too, shall pass. 6 p.m. update: The rain is gone, replaced by sun. The tarp is off the field. Play ball.

Coming on the heels of a terrific, 1-0 game last night, there’s another good pitching matchup on tap here tonight. Beckett against Carmona. This game is obviously huge for the Indians as they don’t want to lose a third in the row to the Sox.

And this just in: Joel Pineiro has accepted an optional assignment to Triple-A Pawtucket, foregoing his right to test free agent waters. Interesting. Obviously there wasn’t a lot of interest out there from other teams for old Joel. Pineiro actually is starting for Pawtucket today, and the Red Sox will help him build himself back up as a starter. I doubt you’ll see him start in Boston, but it might help him latch on somewhere else.

Here is tonight’s lineup:

Crisp CF
Pedroia 2B
Ortiz DH
Ramirez LF
Youkilis 1B
Drew RF
Varitek C
Hinske 1B
Cora SS

Beckett SP

Ian.

143 Comments

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That is a great quote. I’m from Ohio, so I am very familiar with Lake Erie. Perhaps Oil Can saw a reference to how the Great Lakes are like inland oceans. Or maybe he is just plain nuts! I remember old Municipal Stadium. When I was in college in the late 80s and early 90s, before the Jake was built, I would drive to Cleveland, arrive an hour or so before the game and get tickets near the dugout for a reasonable price. Those were the days when 5,000 was a big crowd. Be sure to visit the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame if you haven’t already in your previous visits to Cleveland. Here’s hoping the Sox knock around Carmona like they did last year!

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

What I remember most of that fogged game was I believe Bobby Bonds was hitting fly balls in the outfield to make sure the outfielders could see the ball.

Jeff,

Big difference to Carmona this year and last year. Of course last year he was coming out of the pen and this year he is starting. He looks like a totally different pitcher. When Carmona is on you will see alot of groundballs. Of course last year you didn’t see alot of groundballs, more flyballs to the fence. He gave it up back to back nights at Fenway and the next series for the Tribe Carmona gave it up to Pudge Rodriguez and the Tigers had a walk off homer.

Beckett of course in his only start last year at the Jake got lit up, of course he is a different pitcher just like Carmona. Should be another close one tonight.

This just in Oil Can is just plain nuts. Sparky Anderson didn’t take him for the All Star game and bolted the clubhouse and took off. Oil Can of course was schedueled to be the game 7 starter in the 1986 World Series and the game was rained out so he got bypassed in favor of Bruce Hurst. He was one interesting individual. I kind of miss the Can, too bady he got the blood clots in his shoulder.

I would not want to trade Lowell as well. Lowell I am sure will be a type A free agent so that means the Sox will get a 1st rd. draft choice from the team that signs him. Damon goes to the Yanks and the Sox nab Bard ( the kid throws gas-99) Pedro to the Mets and the Sox get Bucholtz. So Boston’s front office has shown the ability to draft young talent. Yankees sign Giambi and the A’s get Joe Blanton with the pick and the Orioles nab Tejada and the A’s draft Huston Street and he becomes rookie of the year. I think that is one of the benefits in keeping Lowell among others as well. This team needs to be tweeked a little bit and that is it.

That was quite a game yesterday guys.Hey Brian.I see your point.This can really work to our advantage big time.

I also like having D-Ped in the number 2 hole.

If you play your cards right it could go to your advantage. I am sure that is part of the Sox thinking on that. Theo and the baseball operations has shown they have a good eye for young talent. Certainly that wasn’t the case by the previous regime, we all know that. That is one of the big things I like about Theo and the front office.

I don’t know if you chman712 has read the book called “Feeding The Monster” It is a very good book with alot of insight about the Sox and the front office. Highly recommend it to any Sox fan or baseball fan. I loved reading it. My friend is a huge Yankees fan and he loved reading it.

Thanks Brian.I will definitely check it out.Sounds like something I can find an interest in.Do you think D-Ped is a good nickname for Dustin Pedroia?I like calling him that.

Ian has 2 1b listed, I assume Hinske will be filling in for Lowell at 3b. Get another lefty in there against Carmona. I do like Pedroia in the 2 hole as well, he will shoot it the other way.

Not bad on the nickname there. Highly recommend the book, I loved it. It came out last June or so, the writer had alot of access. I wonder what his teammates call him.

Schilling needs to shut his big mouth about Bonds. Will Schilling ever learn. Francona wasn’t happy the last time and I am sure he will not be this time around.

I guess Schilling is healthy though because when he is healthy the mouth is talking for sure. Good news for the Sox and the fans as well.

Bosox

Good luck to the Red Sox tonight-beat Cleveland for both of us.

It would be nice for the winning streak to continue. It will be tough for sure. Tribe have the bats and Carmona is throwing well, Beckett’s last 3 starts have been great even though 1 is a loss.

Thanks GSumner.Thanks Brian.Well I certainly look forward to tonights match up.Beck Vs Carmona.Should be a heck of a game.Lets just hope our guys get a couple runs early and that beckett does his usual.With our bullpen,we would only need about 6 innings from him.

Yes, but you have Ortiz back-that’s gotta help

hey guys, every Toronto Blue Jays fan is hoping you win tonight.

So don’t let us down. lol

Sox went 4-0 without Ortiz but I love the idea of having him back. Someone on here suggested the Sox put him on the 15 day d.l. retroactive to last Friday, I don’t see that of course. Just his presence on deck will make Carmona think about him. I say Oritz goes deep into the seats tonight.

Hey Blue jays fans,I love you guys.Trust me.I enjoyed that series where Marcum and the other guy shut the Yankees down,ha!Anyways,i gotta go but ill be back later guys.The Red Sox have been playing like champions lately,lets keep the momentum rolling.By the way,Mussina goes for the Yanks tonight!Should be good.lol

I meant the series where A Rod pulled off the bush league play.

He does make a serious difference to anyone pitching against your guys. I think you’re probably right-he will likely hit 1 or maybe more tonight-he’s that kind of an impact player.

As a Blue Jays fan, I really think both Ortiz and Manny should pay some of their salary to our club for increasing their HR’s-the number these two guys hit against us is unbelieveable. lol

Manny has hit more HR’s against us than any other player and Ortiz is not far behind and probably second.

chman

Don’t worry about the Yanks-we have them coming to our building in August. We’ll take care of business for both of us. We still have a little score to settle with one of their players.

Bosox

Did you like our win today?

11 runs in 1 inning against the Twins. Every single guy in the lineup hit and scored at least once in the inning. I think that might be a record, but I’m not sure.

Ramirez loves hitting in Toronto. That ball he hit up there on the 4th deck or so was crushed.

I was at the Sox-Yanks game 4th of July in N.Y. back in 03 and Ramiez hit a ball off of Wells that went to the 2nd deck at Yankee Stadium and it made no sound. Some of the fans around me who were Yankee fans were laughing at how far the ball went and no sound. Ramirez does hit some moonshots.

I like to see the other A.L. East teams do well actually because alot of the so called experts were saying that the division was very weak. You should have 3 teams with a winning record. I don’t like to see the Orioles do well though, Angelos the owner is a disgrace to me. He has ruined the Oriole tradition, a trial lawyer what do you expect.

ya-please don’t remind me-I actually think we’re be better to simply walk Manny every time he comes up-he kills us.

Hey-don’t worry about the Blue Jays-we get stronger every day from here on in as our walking wounded return.

Our only issue is whether there’s enough games left; which is why we need help from Boston tonight in the wild card.

So go Boston

Certain situations I would agree about that. I guess they’re thinking is he can’t hit a homer every time. Ramirez has been swinging a hot stick since the break. When Ramirez starts going the other way, that is when is he on, just like A-Rod, as they say staying on the ball longer.

There is enough games left. The Jays scheduele looks good for them and if they get pitching like they have been, they could make a move in the standings for the wild card. One of the puzzling things about the Jays is there bats this year. One thing for sure the Jays have had the Sox number, especially last year. Boston owns the Orioles in the last few years. Orioles back when Hargrove as managing them they gave Boston fits.

It is all about pitching, defense and timely hitting. That is a winning combo usually. Sounds easy, ya right. Watching the Sox as a kid they always had a solid lineup but there pitching was average at best. Pedro came to Boston and changed everything. Look at the Mariners back in the day, Buhner, Griffey, A-Rod, Edgar Martinez, Tino Martinez for a little bit. There pitching had nothing after Randy Johnson, Bobby Ayala came out of the pen. Talking about a disaster.

There really is not puzzle-we’ve had over 700 player days of injuries. BUT-our hitters are all back and starting to roll.

With a little help we could still be in it-we have a very light schedule through the end of August-so we could get on a roll.

But we need your help tonight so go Red Sox.

Have a great game and win guys. I’m outta here.

One of the guys the Sox had targeted, Scott Linebrink was traded today to the Brewers. I know with how our bullpen is shaping up Linebrink does not seem as important, but how can the Padres only get 3 minor league players in return? Weren’t we talking Pena and Hanson and one other player for him? Glad that fell through.

Ortiz perfect example of how much better Carmona is this year. 2 ABs, 2 k’s and last year he was hitting walk off bombs off this guy. Confidence is the name of the game for Carmona.

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
REDDDDDDDDDDDDD

SOXXXXXXXXXXXXX

I have to share something with y’all that I found kind of amusing. I was in the kitchen and my husband, David was in the living room. The STO announcers were talking about one of the pitchers and the pitches that he’d thrown so far tonight (I think he was talking about Beckett). What he said contained the phrase “seen more fast balls”. He, being the not so huge Sox fanatic that I am, was just passing through and thought he heard “Senor Fastballs” jokingly he said, hey Is that the new Latin American pitcher??? He knows that I call Tavarez Senor Ez. ok maybe not so funny after all!!…

I guess you had to be there.

just kidding. Good stuff there. Don’t you miss the N.E.S.N. coverage there ellen? I know I do.

I love Remy and Orsillo, especially the way Remy pronounces Dustins last name “Pedroi-er”, oh and Okajimer… Priceless!!!!

Tough Indians defense so far tonight. They’re fighting to keep within spitting distance of the Tigers in their division and the Yankees in the wild card race. I hate to see the Yankees get anything due to anybodys misfortune, but we need EVERY “W” that we can grab. SOOOOOOOO.. LET’S GO SOX!!!!!

Remember when Remy first started with N.E.S.N. with the late great Ned Martin. He was so stiff now he is so relaxed and is very funny, great entertainment for sure.

McDonough brought out the best of Remy and Orsillo emulates McDonough now. We are lucky we have them though, some of these teams have some bad announcers.

Boston’s bats have been quiet can’t say I am too surprised on this one. Carmona has had a great year, you wouldn’t even think it is the same guy. Looks to be a carbon copy of last night’s game. Very little runs and who knows maybe 1 run will take it. Let’s hope the Royals can slow down the red hot Yankees.

Some of the teams have some Real Homers, with a REALLY BIG CAPITAL “H”. These guys aren’t all that bad.

I would agree on your observation about homers. Ken “Hawk” Harrelson comes to my mind right away. Tough to listen too, I understand he gets his $$$$ from the White Sox but come on now. Thom Brennaman does the Reds and I like him alot, he’ll speak the truth for sure. Michael Kay I am not a fan of and Keith Hernandez of the Mets is just awful.

hey bosox, I hear the red s-u-x are going to start Dennis “Grease can ” Boyd tomorrow, and have Old Man Schilling, and his bloody sock start the next night. LOL!!!!!

Coco was safe, and to tell you the truth so was Guiterrez earlier. Howevr that Cleveland station is low budget, whrn Papi swung I couldn’t even see were the ball was hit, and that excuse for “replay” is horrible, I’m watching it on MLB.TV since I can’t get NESN, and Extra Innings isn’t worth the money.

Ol’ Lugnuts ain’t doing so good, maybe you should out that frozen dinner you call Ted Williams and have him in your lineup from now on!!! LOL!!!

So Ian, how are the screening efforts going ?

Yeah, right, it didn’t look like Carmona was trying to hit Dustin, did it??? wink wink. they tried to make Dustin sound as if he was whining. If it were me?? I’d’ve been out on that mound in a heartbeat!

Any inning with Drew due up the Sox are working with 2 outs because we all know what he is going to do. Easy to figure that one out.

What a shock, Drew is out. He is under .250, no good.

Against any sinkerballer Drew is done. Sometimes he can lift that medium to medium low pitch but anything that is around his feet he has no chance. And the outside sinkers he rolls over and grounds to the right side. He should sit in favor Pena on a night like tonight because Carmona is basically all hard stuff and Pena loves that.

I thought Coco Crisp made a great decision trying to score on the Ortiz hit. It might be the only chance the Sox have to score and it took a perfect play to get him out.

You’re right rsjones, we couldn’t tell anything from the replay on Extra Innings. It almost looked to me like the catcher fell back and never tagged him. Guttierez was safe. I have never seen umpiring as bad as it has been this year. Some of these guys have no clue.

C’mon, the Sox can’t waste another great effort by Beckett.

Hopefully we can work Fausto’s pitch count in the 8th so they bring in Joe Boroski for the 9th. He is horrible

Against any pitcher Drew is done. I have zero confidence in him. He reminds me too much of Matt Clement, the mental side of the game. Soft players do not cut in Boston, never have and never will. We have seen it too many times over the years.

Runs are few and far here in Cleveland so if you have a chance go for it. You have to be aggressive in those situations, play to win.

Tek starts it off with a hit, come on guys get him over, get him in

Bosox

We need some bats man!!!

Go Red Sox!!!

That tribe pen is not good and I do agree with rizzo1087 about Boroski. Shapiro will be looking for pen help in Cleveland. Great lineup and 2 really good starters but not much of a pen.

Hinske has had some big hits this year. One here would be nice. Swing away Hinske.

Let’s hope Carmona hangs one here.

Wow, that was terrible, Come on AC redeem yourself!!!

I can’t believe this guy held you to 3 hits!!!!

Go Boston Red Sox

what is wrong with the sox this series? thats the second missed hit and run call that has cost us big

Now the announcers are sounding like a oouple of HOMERS!!!

Run J-Go Run!!!!

Alright here’s the plan: Lugo steal 2nd, Coco hit a rocket up the middle and Lugo run home

LETS GO RED SOX, LETS GO, LETS GO RED SOX, LETS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lugo to steal second and Crisp with the R.B.I. to tie the game. I hope my crystal ball is in focus here.

Variek caught stealing 2nd-what does he think he is a speedster.

****-he could be at 3rd now.

tek would not be at third.. would have been forced out at second on the ground ball, whether it was a hit and run or not

rizzo,

Your on the same thought process here with me. gsumner that was a hit and run and Cora well let’s say he didn’t get it done.

I hate CB Bucknor, was he out everybody?

Not watching so I can not be sure

One more inning left, u guys think we can do something?

Cora missed a sign, that should have been hit and run, Tek would NEVER be given the green light for a straight out steal!!

Not a good inning. Ouch, what a way to end it.

Sox have never won a game when trailing into the 9th on the road. That will change tonight folks.

has anyone heard the song from south park episode about mormons? thats the sox tonight, “dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb”

let coco swing the bat

great playing

why not just give them two outs and sit down.

He has a beef with Lugo, anyone remember at Yankee Stadium when he literally starting punching out Lugo and Crisp on 3rd strikes? He is also the WORST balls and strikes umpire in the game and Monday he was at it again

No straight out steal there. Very surprised there, 2 of the smartest guys on the team, Cora and Varitek and someone was asleep.

He was out!

Tek would not have been out at second. Cora’s grounder was too soft and Perralta would had to have turned around to get him.

what a way to spoil an inning

I agree withbosox monsta-dumb,dumb, dumb

At least we get to see Joe ******** in the 9th. He is this years Todd Jones, 28 saves with a 5+ ERA and an Opponents BA of .300+

Let’s hope the Tribe don’t get a insurance run here. Up 2-0 would be huge going into the 9th, let it be 1-0.

We’ve got Coco, DP, and Papi up in the top of the 9th, this looks like good things can happen with this combination, LETS GO RED SOX!!!!!!!!

Ed Hickox, CB Bucker, and Joe West are officially the dumbest umps in the game.

I would agree with gsm52 on the Varitek play at second base. It doesn’t matter anyway.

Joe West I believe is the crew chief, that speaks volumes right there about that crew.

Superb outing by Mr. Beckett tonight. He made one mistake and he paid for it. A far cry from last year at the Jake when he game up 9 or 10 runs in 4 innings.

here we go, lets make something happen here. skipped class tonight to catch the end of the game, it better had been worth it

You’re right Brian, it doesn’t matter any way.

What a great effort by Beckett. After that 2-1 loss to Toronto, he can’t lose this one.

You skipped class to watch the Sox come from behind on the road for the first time. Let’s go here Sox.

Also throw in that 10k performance against the White Sox gsm. That is 3 straight outstanding outings with only 1 win to show for it? **** no

Wedge did the Sox a favor here.

we need some of teh big papi heroics that this season has lacked

What a ******* horrible call!

worst strike 3 call ever

89 MPH right down the middle. Papi has to be blasting that!

papi should have let that hit him and put manny up

Well, gotta pull for the Royals. They’re hanging tough.

Last I saw yanks were up 2-0 in the 5th.. Let’s go KC, Let’s go!!!

2 games, 1 run.. i guess you cant really complain when your starting pitching does that well..
a wasted effort tho

So the Yanks r leadin, so its gonna be 6.5 pretty soon huh. What a stupid game. I blame bonehead manny on this one. Shuld told Crisp to keep hustling and slide, but as usual, he doesnt do a thing. Nice one Man Ram.

Royals came into this series winning 4 of there last 6 games. They took the series from Detroit and the Yankees have made mince meat out of them so far. Yankees are on a roll right now, 11-3 since the break. Sox are 7-7 but have won 4 of there last 5 obviously. Not no panic but the facts are the facts.

Sox do not have that come from behind heroics like we have seen over the years. I thought it was going to happen, it will sometime this year. I hope anyway.

Haha I don’t know about blaming Manny for Coco getting thrown out at home. This was a fun game to watch as a baseball fan but brutal if you were a Sox fan, especially in the last couple of innings.

First off, why is Coco trying to score on a groundball to deep 2nd base when Manny is coming up next?

Secondly, why is Alex Cora chopping wood at a ball that was thrown past him a solid 2 seconds after his swing? That was a bizarre play and there’s no way Varitek is out at 2nd because the infielders would have been deeper (at double play depth).

Third of all, why is Lugo trying to steal with a 3-1 count? A hit-and-run I would understand, but why take the bat out of a hot hitting Coco’s hands, and more importantly, not guarantee Manny the chance to hit in the 9th?

This type of game definitely won’t stop the momentum which the Sox have built up in the past 5 games because they hung tough the whole time and just ran into a hot pitcher.

Good point there dj992 about Manny. Beckett pitched a great game but all for not. He has given up 1 run in 2 starts since the break and have lost both of them. Imagine that, he keeps pitching like that he’ll get alot of wins in 07 and into October.

My bad Sox are 8-6 since the break. I failed math.

Now that was disapointing

It sure was, Beckett pitched so well again. 1 run vs Toronto and he gets the loss and 1 run tonight and he gets the loss. Sometimes it doesn’t make any sense. Sox bats were shutdown by a very good pitcher. Carmona is on when he has that sinker going and that was the case tonight, alot of groundball outs. I believe he has the highest or one of the highest groundball to flyball ratios in the game.

Villone is in for the Yankees and that is usually good news for the opposition. We all know about the Yankees bullpen this year. Walks and more walks. Let’s hope that happens.

Beckett pitched well but Carmona was better. I’m sure he feels good after blowing those two saves against Boston last year. You have to tip your cap to Carmona because he pitched an excellent game, still what is most frustrating is the fact the Manny Ramirez and Kevin Youkilis continue to watch called third strikes. Too often they take a pitch with two strikes hoping the umpire will think it is an inch outside, high or low. I wish they would swing at those pitches, as most Major Leaguers do. Pedroia did the same thing in the ninth. That 3-2 pitch was a strike. It hit the bottom of the strike zone. Yet Pedroia watched it and whined when it was called strike three. It would be nice to see Sox hitters be more aggressive. That said, the Sox need to take three out of four, which is the object of any four-game set. Hopefully, Gabbard continues to keep hitters off-balance and the Sox get to Lee.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

man,im depressed.
Now Sentinel listen you sawed off piece of chicken ****.Ted Williams was greater than you will ever be so shut the **** up and go **** yourself.

Sox have faced Cleveland’s best in the past 2 games. The bats should be alive and well against Cliff Lee. Gabbard is a guy that relies so much on location, he must throw strikes early in the count. He has been doing that and like what Jeff wrote keeping the hitters off-balance. Get Pena in there tomm. night, I am sick and tired of watching Mrs. Drew. I would rather watch Pena go 0 for.

By the way, Joel Pineiro started for Pawtucket tonight and pitched thre scoreless and hitless innings. That, in itself, is amazing. Who knows, he could rediscover himself as a starter. Couldn’t hurt the Sox to let him try. Schilling throws tomorrow for the PawSox.

I am very surprised that Pinero went down to the minors. If he does rediscover himself as a starter it will not be in Boston. Schilling will be ready for his start next week vs Baltimore. That will be huge for the Sox when he returns, just after the trading deadline.

You never know if it will or won’t be in Boston. Injuries happen. Spot starts are needed. You can never have enough pitching. Hopefully, Schilling returns, is effective and remains healthy. We can’t count on that, though. The Sox have six solid starting pitchers when Schilling returns. Hansack and Pauley are throwing the ball well at Pawtucket. I liked when the Sox had Runelvys Hernandez earlier this season as a veteran starter in the minors, but he pitched so well that he opted out of his contract and has resurfaced in the Pirates organization. It can’t hurt to have Pineiro stretch himself out and start throwing six to seven innings at Triple-A.

Thank God we have great pitching or our lineup would be one of the biggest underachievers of all time (at the prices we are paying). I heard last night that we’re hitting something like .250 on the road. I guess that’s why we look god awful most of the time. I don’t know if I can bear watching Drew much longer. Take away his one monster game (2 homers, 7 RBIs) and he would be left with 4 homers and 31 RBIs. That’s a disgrace. Any chance he’ll give some of his $14.4 million back? I can’t even imagine that he’s making more than Big Papi. Truly a disgrace.

Yeah, Drew is pathetic so far. And Pena is even more pathetic. Hinske isn’t much better either. Few options in right field. We’ll see what happens by the trade deadline.

lol villone was in with a 6 run lead. He is our mop up guy and have you checked out his ERA this season? The Yankees bullpen has struggled but it is not pathetic. Rivera and Vizcaino are on an absolute tear right now and something tells me they will get another arm by the deadline to join bruney and proctor who have the stuff to be good but as you say, walk far too many batters.

Myers has also been great against both types of hitters.

Vince,

Villone was in last night with a 2 run lead and faced 1 batter and then handed it over to Proctor. Vizcaino I would agree has been on a tear, it seems he started turning it around in early or mid June. He looks like a total different pitcher now. Rivera well he is Rivera, I would never say anything bad about him. If the Yankees deal Farnsworth away ( they’ll have to eat part of his contract I would assume ) add another arm thru trade or from within they’ll be right there to the end.

I would agree about Pinero helping himself out but I don’t see him taking the mound in a big spot this year. Stranger things have happened over the years.

Good game to watch last night although we wound up on the wrong end.
Pretty disturbing that we couldn’t do anything against Borowski. Guy has giving up 10 more hits than innings pitched and his ERA is over 5.

Can’t really jump on any one player since Carmona shut the whole team down, but just how long is Drew going to continue to waste away in the 5 hole. Someone mentioned a stat yesterday that 60% or more of his at bats were either strike outs or ground outs to 2nd. That’s all I ever see from him, so it’s should be pretty dead on.

Cliff Lee is having a rough year. When the series started, I would have been happy with 2 of 4, but there is no reason the Sox should lose tonight.

Who plays in right, Drew or Pena? JD can’t hit lefties (or righties for that matter) and Wily Mo can’t hit anyone. I guess Drew plays by default. Do you play Pena and hope he accidently hits one out and then a GM around baseball will be fooled by hit “potential” and actually trade for him??

Since Drew isn’t going to hit above .250 the rest of the year, what do you think the odds are that the Sox will go after Dye for the 2nd half? He’s a free agent, so it will be a rental.

The problem of that move is that you are paying Drew 14 mil to sit on the bench and then we’ve got 4 more years of him. Since we’re stuck with the $14 mil tab, I’d rather pay him NOT to hurt the team and sit on the bench rather than pay him to ruin every rally and waste 4 AB’s a game.

He will find a way to get hurt sitting on the bench anyway.

I know that deal won’t happen just because of the dollar value involved, but I’m just so tired of watching him waste opportunities and run around with no emotion.

I just needed to vent on this terrible Theo signing.

This is one of the reasons I always thought Papelbon would be better as a starter… The teams we play throw any schmo in the closer role… 3, 4, 5+ ERA and we never touch them. You can have a 5 ERA (Borowski, Todd Jones) and still convert 85% or more of your saves. It would be nice to at least put up a run once in a while against these losers.

Ray:

I think ERA is an overrated stat for closers, and for relievers in general. Because they usually only work for an inning, they can be effective and still have what would be considered a huge ERA for a starter.

Just as a hypothetical example, a closer could come in nine times, and pitch one inning each time. Let’s say that in five of those games he gives up one run, but still gets the save, and in the other four games he also gets the save but gives up no runs. So he’s given up five runs in nine innings, giving him an ERA of 5.00.

The example is probably slightly unrealistic, but even you admit that a pitcher can have a hefty ERA and still convert most of their save opportunities. Certainly, I’d agree that someone with a high ERA is a much riskier proposition as a closer, but if they are used appropriately they can still get the job done.

ERA, is the earned run average per 9 innings, not 1, so techincally Borcowski could go should down a team in 1 inning. I also don’t agree with the statement that a closer is always a failed starter, a.k.a Eck and Paps, also Wainwright in STL, also in todays day and age more and more pitchers are breed to only work in the bullpen, thats why are their guys is systems like Hansen and Cox.

I am a firm believer that a solid farm system will bolster a club, in the same sense branch Rickey thought of it. I think Theo has done a tremendous job improving its strengths. I feel that it is not worth trading the wealth we have at all fields and aspects. I know that all prospects will become stars or even contributers at the Major League level, but with the talent that we have If no trades occur, we could be a powerhouse in the years to come.

They have revamped the soxprospects site, I urge you to take a hard look…….

http://www.soxprospects.com/

Drew and Cora both hit seed’s that were snagged by Casey Blake at 3B, if either of those balls were a couple of inches to the left they would have been double’s and who knows what would have happened. But I guess that’s baseball. I also know I am becoming part of the increasingly small JD Drew support group, but over the past couple of games while he has not been setting the world on fire batting average wise, he has hit a couple of hard balls that have not found holes. But after watching Lugo’s turn around, I am confident Drew too will turn it around.

Part of the reason Joe Borowski’s ERA is so high is because he gave up 6 runs in 2/3 of an inning versus the Yankees back in April. How do I remember this? Because I had bet on the Indians as heavy underdogs and it was all but certain that they had the game wrapped up when the Yankees rallied FOR SIX RUNS WITH 2 OUTS IN THE 9TH. As you can imagine, my hatred for the Yankees grew exponentially on that day.

If Gabbard throws another beauty tonight, we’re gonna have a pretty interesting situation on our hands in terms of our two young lefties when Schilling returns. The Sox need a solid 7-10 runs tonight to re-awaken their bats for the Tampa Bay series because if the Yankees are just going to run over the bottom of the American League then we certainly need to match them. Add to that the fact Kei “I Wear My Sunglasses On the Mound” Igawa is pitching for the Yanks today and maybe the Royals can run into a victory.

Lugo snapping out of it was no surprise to me. If Drew ends his funk I will be very surprised. The craziest thing about Drew was nobody liked that signing anyway. I never met anybody that said Drew was a good signing, not one person. We are stuck with this guy for a long time. Enough of talking about Drew.

Todd Jones had a high e.r.a. last year in Detroit and the Tigers went to the World Series. I think the most important stat for any reliever is inherited runners scoring. If a reliever has a bad outing or two his e.r.a. will go up quick and it will take a while for it to go down.

ERA is not an accurate measurement of how effective a reliever is. You can have an occasional bad outing and allow 2,3 or 4 runs, and since you only pitch an inning at a time – or even less in the case of guys like Javier Lopez – you can throw several scoreless frames and still have a high ERA. WHIP and inherited runners scored are stats I look at when writing about a reliever and determining his reliability.

I disagree about throwing just any pitcher out there as a closer. It is much more difficult to find a closer than it is a starting pitcher. I am currently writing a feature on Jonathan Papelbon for a sports magazine, and when I conducted my first interview with him, he made a valid point. He said he is “wired” as a closer. It’s an adrenaline rush, and he thrives in those situations. You just can’t put anyone in a closer’s role and expect them to succeed. There are different mentalities to excel as a starter, a middle reliever and a closer.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

ERA is not a good short term measurement of relief pitchers, but the more appearances a pitcher makes, and the more innings he pitches, the more valid it becomes. Obviously, a pitcher who gives up four runs in an inning in his first outing is going to have an ERA of 36.00 and that’s probably not a true reflection of his ability. However, if you have a pitcher who has pitched 60 or so innings with an ERA of 6.00, that’s probably indicative of substandard or at the very least, very inconsistent performance. A guy who has pitched 60 innings would have given up 40 earned runs to have a 6.00 ERA. I would say that’s a pretty accurate portrayal of performance.

On the other side, what Okajima and Papelbon are doing is pretty remarkable.

Jeff,
I agree it is not easier to find a closer than a starting pitcher. There is one closer and five starting pitchers. But an ace has more value than a great closer. Who has been more valuable this year, Beckett or Papelbon? If the Sox could have found a way to get Papelbon in the rotation by trading for Otsuka or someone like that, they would have been better off in my opinion. Maximize what a guy can give you. Leave the closing job up for someone who cannot cut it as a starter. And I am not saying that closers dont have a lot of value, dont take this that way.

http://statisticianmagician.mlblogs.com/

And one more thing, the Red Sox have the luxury of having a lot of money to work with, ultimately giving them more talent. Papelbon in the bullpen is a lot less damaging to them then it would be the Royals or the Devil Rays or something.

http://statisticianmagician.mlblogs.com/

And which are the best single seasons for a pitcher of all time? Come find out and leave your opinions at the link below.

http://statisticianmagician.mlblogs.com/

Lugnuts will come crashing back to earth eventually, and Drew (great pick up by the way as was Pienero). Big Poopi (errrr, Papi) will continue to lay a big poopi on the Red S-U-X fans (LOL). The S-U-X will never put away the Yanks because they are not good enough.

One other thing, the Red S-U-X want the frozen dinner you call Ted Williams to sign on again. What do you think will he turn a cold shoulder to the S-U-X? LOL!!!!!!!

From the Red Sox standpoint it is better to have Papelbon as a closer than starter. No closer has ever signed a deal for 75 to 100 million dollar deal. Last year Papelbon blew everyone away but had absolutely nobody in front of him. That obviously is not the case this year. Down the stretch the Sox have 2 guys that could close for you, Okijima and perhaps Tavarez as well.

Sox bats will be alive and well tonight. 3 homers by Boston tonight, mark it down folks.

Closers are a joke today. They pitch one inning every other or third day and chalk up 40 saves a years and they are considered superstars. Closers aren’t closers, they are finishers.

Find me the guy like Gossage, Fingers, Lyle, Radatz, Sutter, and even Rivera and Hoffman, and we can talk about talented relief pitchers. These are the guys you called in the 7th or 8th inning, runners on second and third with nobody out, and expected them to get you out of it. These are the guys that could get the big “K” when it counted and after they got you out of the jam, they would finish the last one or two inning of the game for you. Those guys are closers, and were tough to find.

Papelbon, Del Carmen, Timlin, Tavarez, and Okajima could all be closers today and do a creditable job. Under most conditions, all of them could get through an inning with reasonable consistency. I don’t think a good closer is that tough to find. Someone with reasonable stuff and control can do the job.

Pitchers like the ones I mentioned above (Gossage and those guys) have been replaced by specialty pitchers like Mike Myers and Javier Lopez. You think those monsters above cared whether a batter was left or right handed? **** no!

I’d take Papelbon in the starting rotation and let Timlin do the closing any day. I think he’d be much more valuable there. Closing is easy $$$$$$$.

I certainly wouldn’t disagree about the old time closers. It is a shame that Goose isn’t in the Hall Of Fame. I am sure most would agree there. None of this 3 run lead in the 9th and you throw 8 pitches and you get a save. I guess we can thank Tony LaRussa for this. He is the guy that made is situational.
Remember Timlin was on the mound when the Jays beat the Braves for the World Series. Rivera has been the best of recent years. How good would Telkulve, Sutter, Gossage and Quisenberry be for only 3 outs? Gossage would have just retired last year. ( that is a joke folks ) Mike Myers is with the Yankees because of Oritz. Myers has the best job in baseball, make big bucks and face 1 or maybe a long night and face 2 hitters.

Totally off topic, but have a question regarding Coco and the media.
When he was slumping, he wouldn’t talk to the media.

He got hot, he started talking to the media.

He dogs it coming home last night and cost the Sox their only run and yet he runs from the media to avoid it.

Does this bother anyone besides me? Say what you want about Schill (there’s no question he talks more than he should), but if he has a bad game, he still does his interviews and takes the heat.

At least Manny never talks, so there is no in between. With Coco, it seems like he talks when things are going well and runs and hides when he might take some heat.

I haven’t heard anyone else say anything about this, but if you’re a pro, stand up and take the good with the bad.

Just what the Sox wanted was a rain delay and they hit the airport right after the game. Depending on how long of a rain delay, it could be a early morning arrival in St. Pete.

gosoxred,

I would agree with you there, at least stand up and talk about it. His play wasn’t the only reason why the Sox lost last night. Ramirez should have been telling him to slide but that is Manny for you.

One thing I loved about Eckersly, he gave up that homer to Gibson back in 1988. He stood by his locker and answered all the questions. Guys like Eck I have alot of respect for. I am sure most would agree there. That was the World Series and last night was just another game in a long baseball season.

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but Curt Schilling threw five scoreless innings in his second rehab start with Pawtucket. He struck out eight, allowed just two hits and threw 66 pitches. That’s good news for the Sox. Not sure if they plan on starting him August 1 against the Orioles. Beckett will definitely start on July 31 since it will be on six days rest (the Sox are off on July 30).

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

Garry (GSM), look forward to meeting you and your significant other on Saturday. Let me know if you want to meet at Ferg’s before the game. There will be a group meeting there before and after.

I think it’s safe to say that Manny is locked in right now.

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