Gagne arrives

Eric Gagne is wearing No. 83. And here’s at Fenway, along with Kevin Garnett, who will throw out the first pitch tonight. I’m thinking Gagne’s first pitch might mean more to the actual game, though Garnett’s arrival certainly means more to the state of a franchise.

These are indeed good times to be a Boston sports follower. Why 83 for Gagne? It’s 38 backwards. I don’t think he’d ask Schill to give up his number.

Speaking of Schill, he’s taking the ball Sunday afternoon in Seattle. Beckett will get the extra day of rest and go Monday in Anaheim. Timlin is available tonight, but Tito would rather stay away one more day.

J.D. Drew has been tending to a family matter, so he’s out of the lineup again. Here’s the starting nine:

Lugo SS
Pedroia 2B
Ortiz 1B
Ramirez LF
Youkilis 1B
Lowell 3B
Varitek C
Crisp CF
Pena RF

Tavarez SP

and how about this ‘pen at Francona’s disposal tonight?

RHP Papelbon
RHP Gagne
LHP Okajima
RHP Delcarmen
RHP Timlin
LHP Lopez
RHP Snyder

That’s all for now.



Has anyone worn a number that high in a Red Sox uniform? Excluding those wonderful Grapefruit League games. I can’t think of any.

Let’s hope the Sox bats are awake tonight. I would rather see Wakefield pitch tonight but for some reason Francona goes with Tavarez. Tonight would be regular rest for Wakefield. Lester will pitch in front of the home folks on Friday night. Perhaps the Sox want Lester to pitch in Seattle and reward him there. That is the only reason I can think of.

That would be a great pen to use….however something tells me Snyder is going to get the ball since Tavarez is on the hill. The pen won’t do the Sox much good if they can’t generate the runs needed to hold the lead.
I’ll hold off on dogging Drew tonight since any family matter could be a serious one.

The bats have been an enigma this year. Here’s hoping they have about 8 runs in them tonight.

I wrote this on the last thread in response to what someone said, but I will post it here as well:

smckinny, you wrote this, “but they’re not consistent at all. they score 12 one game and then 2-3 the next 3 games” Can the same not be said about the Yankees? They pile on runs like no other but the next few they score 2-3 runs. Just look at last week for example, they scored a ton of runs off Tampa then the first 3 in Kansas City. But after that they are shut out in Kansas City and score 2 on Friday in Baltimore and 1 in the first 8 innings on Saturday. The Yankee offense is just as inconsistent as the Red Sox is and they are our only competition when to comes to making the playoffs.

Bottom line, the Red Sox have the easiest road to the postseason since they have the largest division lead and once the postseason rolls around, pitching ALWAYS, I repeat always, wins and it is safe to say that Boston may have the deepest bullpen and the most talented 1-2-3-4 starters in the game.

While I like the aquisition of Gagne, I’m really sorry it took Gabbard to seal the deal. He, Lester and Papelbon it seems to me, would have been the future of the Sox both in the rotation and out of the pen. Usually trades come back to haunt us, I hope that’s not the case here!!

Please: a prayer to the RedSox Gods… Please let Julian have a really good game tonight, he needs to get some of his confidence back. WE need him to get some of his confidence back!!! LET’S GO SOX!!!

There going to need a bullpen with Taverez on the mound and have to score a lot. I’m afraid it was a bone head trade to give up Gabbard to rent a washed up closer for 2 months!!

The Sox have lost two games in the standings in their last two starts, and need a win. Wakefield has had his customary 4 days rest, so why are we starting a batting practice pitcher tonight? And why did we give up a 4-0 starter and a top outfield prospect to rent another setup man for 2 months, when our current setup man is an All-Star.

I’m afraid we’ll only be ahead of the dreaded yanks by only 6 games after tonight.

And why is Lugo back at lead-off where Coco should be?????

That’s an empty statement though. Pitching wins because the team with the higher score wins a game and pitching prevents the runs from coming. But to imply the Red Sox are guaranteed the best pitching is inaccurate. The Cardinals had no notable pitching in the playoffs, they had Suppan and Weaver, two post season failures against Oliver Perez and rookie John Maine in the nlcs last year and the winner ended up winning the world series. Yes, pitching wins, but the best pitching doesn’t always win.

The Yankees have as inconsistant an offense as the Sox, but when it is going, it is more potent. Just like when the Sox pitching is going right, it is probably better, especially in the bullpen.

Posted by: | August 1, 2007 08:15 PM

to Rizzo.

Bottom line: The Sox have the first step pretty much guaranteed-making the playoffs. Of any team in either league, the Sox have the safest positioning and the protection to stay in that safe positioning. But past that, whether it is the Yankees, Angels, Mariners, Tigers, Indians or Twins, the Sox aren’t promised beating anybody.

How many of you truly felt the Yankees would lose to the Tigers? Or the A’s would be swept by the Tigers? Or the Cardinals would make it out of the first round? Or the cardinals would beat the mets? Or the Cardinals would beat the tigers? The playoffs is about execution, not pitching, not hitting, not names, not payroll, not chemistry, it is about who executes to their strengths the most.

Still I would rather go into the playoffs with a deep bullpen and 4 dependable starters, rather than a crapshoot like what St Louis had. The best pitching doesn’t always win but wouldn’t you rather have the best pitching (on paper) than some postseason failures and a rookie (in your words)?

It is easy to look back at 2006 b/c it happened last year. Usually the best team wins (2005, 2004, 2002)

I certainly would agree with Vince about the Sox have the playoff spot pretty much guranteed.

Yankees losing to the Tigers in the 1st rd. was no surprise to me. Cards beating S.D. in round 1 was no surprise at all. Cards winning the W.S. was certainly a big surprise to me. Tigers beat themselves but the Cards still made the plays when it mattered the most.

The White Sox was the last team where everyone thought they would win it all and they did. Look at Boston’s championship back in 04, they got hot when it mattered and a little luck is nice to have.

I still believe the Yankees have a chance to win the division, I think there chances are slim but there is still a chance. Indians didn’t add anything to that rotation and that will be a mistake. That pen will be smoked by September. Yankees will get the wild card because the Tribe did nothing to that team.

How could I forget about J.T. Snow wearing #84 last year. He wore that number in honor of his father who had died during the winter. His dad was a W.R. for the Rams, went to college at Notre Dame. Just some info that some of you thought would be interesting. Call me a geek I guess. lol…


Do you still think the Yankees will trade A-Rod? I thought you were nuts back then. Just thought I would ask. Looking forward to your reply.

The Yankees are winning again tonight (11 homers in 13 innings now). Like I said yesterday they can pour it on with the best of them but I am still skeptical that they can hit a big name guy.

Just look at last week, they were rolling along scoring a ton of runs and Guthrie pitches against them and all of a sudden, their bats disappear.

Don’t have to worry about the Yankees facing a big name guy. Look at there scheduele. This just in they can hit a big name guy. Ask Beckett, Schilling among others. There offense has disappeared at times but the Yankees still can pound it. Cano is over .300 now. He’ll end up around .320 or so. Just where you thought he would when the season began.

Big DP there from Julie. Now can the bats please wake up against The Human Rain Delay Jr.? Great line from Dave O’Brien on him: “Whole dynasty’s have risen and fallen in the time it takes Trachsel to throw a pitch”

No Bosox because the Yankees are in playoff contention so they were not sellers. Had they remained a sub .500 team and not taken care of business while the teams above them struggled, they very well may have tried.

Rizzo, I would prefer the team with good pitching, but like I said it guarantees nothing. The Sox were not the best team in ’04 on paper (they were a wildcard too), the Marlins weren’t in ’03, and the d backs werent in ’01, in addition to last year when both teams weren’t the best in their own leagues and yet met in the World Series. two teams since 2000 won when people expected them to.

“The Tigers beat themselves” yeah exactly, they didn’t execute and the Cardinals did. The Mets were comfortable with a playoff spot since June last year and didn’t reach the world series.

And saying the Yankees can’t beat big starters doesn’t make sense. Who have they had the opportunity to face recently besides Guthrie which was one example? Gil Meche, they smacked, does he count? I recall him doing pretty well against the Sox and having a sub 4 ERA.

All I’m saying is saying you have the best pitching and pitching wins championships does not have a lot of validity to it. The best pitching are the pitcher’s who execute in the playoffs, plain and simple. When you have the best pitching in the regular season does that raise your chances? Of course, but that doesn’t mean anything until it is done.

Yankeev – when you say the best team on paper, do you mean win-loss record wise, or a general perception of how good the team is?

Steve Trachsel has got to be one of the most irritating pitchers to watch. I wonder how long he takes to get ready for bed…probably brushes each tooth individually 3 times. Anyway, I guess what he’s doing is working so far because the Sox hitters are definitely irritated. I must say, I do have to thank Willy Mo for one thing. For everygame he plays, he gives me back about 10-15 minutes of my time because I just walk away from the set when he comes up. It’s the best practice of time management I’ve come up with this season.

Right there with you aki, Trachsel is painful to watch. And in my case, a Yankees killer as well.

Brendan, in the case of the Red Sox? They are the best team perception wise, well and recordwise at least for now. Honestly, I think the Yankees and Red Sox rotations can compare with the X factor being Schilling and how Mussina does from here on out. Bullpen? No brainer Red Sox, they have the best pen in the game and it’s not close anymore.

Offense? I would take the Yankees.

Bench? I would take the Yankees now.

But the difference in bullpen and the probably slight edge to boston’s rotation (if Schilling comes back normally) is more than the edges in offense and the bench from the Yankees, so boston is the better team “on paper”.

I would agree with all of that. But I meant more when you said the Sox were not the best team in 04, the Marlins in 03 and the D’Backs in 01 – did you mean those teams were not the best record wise or perception wise?

Boston is the top dog this year, it’s probably the first time I can say that in my lifetime, ’03 and ’04 included. And they should be, they had the 2nd highest payroll and then spent hte most money both in the offseason and the trade deadline in the league. It was the right moves for them to make at those present times.

Did I just watch a replay of the same groundout by WMP with runners on and 2 out?

oh, perception.

I thought the Sox may have been the best in ’03 for me personally, but the perception was the Yankees were. In ’04 I thought the Yankees were better and that was the perception. D Backs in 01 i think won 100+ games, but the Yankees had won 3 titles in a row.

Plus NY defeated the 116 win Mariners in ’01.

Careful about bringing up money spent Yankeev – you’re beginning to sound like a Red Sox fan!

Hahaha funny how circumstances change year to year isn’t it?

What’s going on in the Sox game, is the offense flat? I Guthrie pitching?

I would actually say with the addition of a stellar closer (Foulke) and an ace starter (Schilling), we were better in 04. I know we went into the ALCS in 04 as favorites.

No Trachsel. Which makes tonight’s game even more important as it’s Guthrie versus Wake tomorrow and I don’t like that match up at all for us. Tonight the offense is flat when it counts, with RISP.

thus far, this is one of the dullest baseball games i’ve seen all year.

Jeter HR, that’s 12 in 15 offensive innings.

I was more confident in ’04 than I was in ’03 from a Yankees standpoint….Especially the first half of the ’04 series lol. It’s debatable, I think ’04 the Sox did everything opposite of their traditional norm. They didn’t play to their abilities until mid July and then were red hot in the playoffs. A very odd season, but I believe the Yankees had the season series in ’04, didn’t they? Or was that the one year they didn’t?

Walks kill…..unless you play the clutchless, heartless lineup of the Sox. Are Manny and Pena going to make the last out of EVERY inning??
1 run in 6 innings of Steve Trachsel??

Can someone explain to me why Lugo is leading off again?? Is it a reward for raising his average to .225?

This team is not very good right now and I’ll say it again…the aquisition of Gagne isn’t going to help the Sox score runs in the 8th and 9th.

Everyone sees what CoCo does between pitches….he bends down to rub a little dirt between his fingers. He could conceivably build a sand castle between every Trachsel pitch. I was able to put a load of laundry in during WMP’s at bat. He is exciting to watch in the field though…how he plays with the divets in the grass with his head when he fields a ball.

Ian – surely Trachsel contributes to this feeling? Shouldn’t there be some sort of medication given out to fans who attend games when he pitches?

Those Orioles can be frustrating, they hit constantly against their own division. Can’t say I’m bothered right now though, lots of people here took them for granted.

They also have the best rotation ERA since the break I think

Mike Hargrove has officially passed the torch to Steve Trachsel as the Human Rain Delay.

Wild prediction – we’ll come back in this game and win it.

I know that would involve scoring runs in the phantom last three innings, but I’m going for an upset of the odds.

Seriously though, that sound you hear is not air coming out of a balloon…it’s chemistry leaking out of the Red Sox clubhouse. I miss the Millars of the world and I’m not just talking about the clowning around. I’m talking about…when a team plays better on the field than on paper it’s due to chemistry…when a team (a’ la the Red Sox) plays below what they show on paper, it’s due to lack of Chemistry. They seem to give away 6 to 8 at bats a game and no one in that clubhouse is chewing them out for this. It’s sickening. A .500 team for over 2 months…please somebody show some passion and scratch out a good at bat.

Perfect scenario is they score 3 here and we get to see 6 outs from the Gagne and Pap and get a glimpse of just how dominante a duo they can be

I mean Gagne*, not “The Gagne”

There is a start, Big Papi RBI double and now 2 productive outs will give the Sox the lead

Would you guys rather lose say, 4-1 and show no life for the remainder of this game, or come back to tie it and then have Gagne blow it and lose anyway?

Secondly, at least you don’t have Torre up to his old tricks again.

Reverse pshychology is working. I need to say something bad about Manny and the Sox might take the lead!!

I kinda still dont count the Sox as the top dog…I mean we got a dream team of pitching but the offense kinda worries me a little.O and sorry I havent been around guys.How is everyone?How are you Brian?

lol Manny was intentionally walked gosoxred. How do you use reverse pshychology for that?

I would rather go down with someone blowing the game Vince, b/c that way the offense had to muster something

lol I think it’s funny that outside of Yankees fans (some), Sox fans have the least expectations of their team.

What I mean is Yankees fans don’t fear the Sox, and then Sox fans don’t fear the Sox, but if you ask the rest of the fanbases, I’m pretty sure they are in awe.

That’s interesting Rizzo. Is it because you know the bullpen is supposed to be good and you consider the offense the weakness, or just because there would be more action if the Sox came back?

way to go Youk!!! I think he was happy to see Trachsel gone.

Well it is a bit of both because if they came back I would have a great deal of confidence in them winning, but also because, yes, right now the offense is the weakness and seeing them score is a positive. It would be like asking a Yankee fan the same question. They may choose to go down quietly because it means their weakness, the bullpen, kept the other team scoreless.

Posada HR, his 2nd of the game, 5th overall, 13 in 16 offensive innings, anybody know the record?

I’m willing to bet the Sox drive both these runs in here.

Very nice for the YoukDog. Now we get to see the for the first time what this Gagne/Oki/Pap thing is all about.

oh oh….wmp comin up…should i take out the garbage or watch him hit?

Whats going on in the Bronx? Why did he get thrown out?!

lol Yea, I guess that is true. I’d rather solid pitching and a power outage (for one game) than the bullpen blowing it.

I would wait akihiro, watching WMP swing and miss at the submarine is entertainment in itself

ridiculous call, the YES announcers have been blasting it since it happened.

Sox reliever hit Cano with a 71 MPH knuckler and they ejected him (first pitch after Posada homered)

WMP looks like a lost manchild out there….he does know he plays for the sox…not the orioles, right?

lol, a knuckler?? Didn’t Guillen get thrown out last night too?

WMP(will make popup) does it again.

OMG okajima was scored on!

Posada is having an awesome year…what’s his contract status…have the Yanks locked him up, Vince?

yeah, he wasn’t ejected though, there was no warning issued, it was just umpires discretion so I’m pretty sure it doesn’t effect Guillen.

he’s a free agent this offseason, not locked up yet. I would imagine the Yankees resign him for three years, which is prob one year too many and he is a backup in 2010. Same with Rivera.

wow….yanks…13hr’s in 2 games…ties a franchise record. Arod must have been thankful the batboy didn’t hit one out yesterday. 8hr’s yesterday and none by Arod. That is rare…indeed.

lol 13 all together none by A-Rod. The faster he hits one the better off everybody will be. He is 0-21 since 499

Any loss by the Sox does not sit well with Sox fans, but I think most of us would agree, if they lost a game by blown bullpen lately vs. same old story of anemic offense, we would take the latter because they that bullpen has been good all year and they are entitled every now and then for a let down….although Delcarmen has the monopoly on recent letdowns lately

Vince,this just goes to show you that this game is about ups and downs and always reverting back to the averages. It seems like back in april, arod was the ONLY yankee hitting hr’s. I think he even outhit entire teams in hr’s back in april.

lol that’s probably true. It would explain why the Yankees are such a hot second half team, they have terrible starts haha

Huff looked silly there!

Very impressive comeback tonight and this could carry them into tomorrow’s early game beginning in abt 15 hrs.

yeah rizzo, good win for the Sox. I think the players can get away with a little less sleep following a win.

Nice to see Paps with a 1,2,3 inning. He looked on tonight.
Hopefully Sox have the lead tomorrow and we can see Gagne in the 9th. Odds are Paps won’t go 2 games in a row.

Well that was a great game,should hopefully give us momentum for this month and beyond.D-Ped had a good game for sure.Youk got himself a big hit.Bull Pen did its job.

The best parts of tonight’s game aside from the victory: #1.) watching KG throw out the first pitch to Ortiz and #2.)finding out that Gagne WILL be wearing the goggles while pitching in Boston.

Tavarez pitched a solid game tonight, and probably the most overlooked decision of the evening was Francona yanking him after just 5 innings and 83 pitches. You know if Julian went out for the 6th, it would have gotten ugly.

Everybody is so worried about our bats in the playoffs, but why? I understand that they have disappeared lately, but come on, what more do you want? Pedroia (.318), Ortiz (.321), Ramirez (.296), Youkilis (.304), and Lowell (.305). And on top of that, Varitek and Crisp are capable. That’s seven out of your nine hitters who will most likely hit better than .275 for the season. I’m not really that concerned about the bats, moreso about their ability to be “clutch” but I guess a 4-run 7th constitutes timely hitting.

Men on 2nd and 3rd, 1 out, Wily Mo comes to the plate against a funky righty. Why was Hinske not summoned to pinch hit? He is 100x more likely to get a run home than Pena.

Wily No Hope,Gosh I wanted Hinske to get a shot in that situation.Wily is a stupid Muscle Head.Well Youk will be fine,Lowell is Lowell,And David and manny I dont need to get into.D-Ped is having a fine rookie season,so yeah.

That Neanderthal is soooooo ugh cant even explain it.Im talking about Wily No Hope.Now about Drew,I won’t get down on him,it can be something very serious.With his lack of passion I wonder if it was his wife developing diarrhea,who knows,then again it could be serious.I wish Drew would hit the way he did last year and 2004.

I am relieved that the Sox won this one, but I am concerned about the continued lack of clutch hitting. Steve Trachsel is very hittable, and the Sox had baserunners in five of the six innings he pitched, yet they only managed an unearned run in the third. Ramirez and Pena failed to deliver in the clutch, and the Sox had a chance to break open the game in the seventh when they scored four runs, but Pena and Lugo left runners stranded on second and third.

As most of you know, I am one of the more positive Sox fans, but I am growing so tired of this lack of clutch hitting. It’s time to release Pena and bring in Bobby Kielty, who hits left-handed pitching well (he is above .300 against lefties for his career, I believe). Of course, Kielty is not the answer, he is just an improvement over Pena. All the other hitters, especially Ramirez, need to produce when it matters. Fortunately, the Sox scored enough to escape this one with a win.


I hear you Jeff. I saw last night where Reggie Sanders went on the DL with a Drew..I mean hamstring injury. I guess the Sox scouts did their digging and that’s probably why that deal didn’t materialize.
Zach, I appreciate the numbers you put out there regarding the hitters, but this has been the source of frustration for a while now. It’s not the average, but when those hits occured. For the longest time, they were in meaningless spots. Before last night, can you tell me the last time the Sox came from 1 run behind after the 6th? I watch every game and can’t remember. Also, when was the last time they beat a “good” pitcher. I know they “beat” Sabathia. But Dice K beat Sabathia, the bats had 5 hits and scored 1 run on a bloop pop up by Manny.

This is why so many people are frustrated with the lineup.

Hey, here’s hoping last night’s deal lit a spark. Sox have Guthrie, then a weekend at their house of horrors(Seattle)and then on to LA. This is a rough 7 game stretch. With the way NY is crushing the ball, the Sox will be very lucky if the lead is more than 4 games 1 week from now.

In regards to Wily No Playa. I have no idea why Hinske wasn’t brought in . They guy goes 3 1/2 months of doing absolutely NOTHING for this team and he has 1 good game in Cleveland and then 2 hits off Kazmir and now he plays every day. Look, we know he needs playing time to develop. We’ve all heard that same song and dance. Well, that playing time should have happened last year when the team tanked it in during late August and when Manny quit on the team. Maybe that would have helped his trade value for this year. Sorry, but August with a lead in the division and a charging 2nd place team right behind you isn’t the time to start playing a guy so that he can get his at bats.
I read Drew is dealing with an issue with his little boy, so that’s not even something to joke about. But come on, now we have to hold on to this guy for another 1/2 season and hope that someone takes him off our hands in the off season. Every time I see him at bat, I’m thinking “OK, he is going to CRUSH this ball” 2 minutes later is a strike 3 on a curve or a pop up.

wow pena, thanks for playing incredibly terrible tonight and stranding something like 7 people on base! way to go!

i’m so glad we didn’t trade you away…

I just caught the replay of Big Papi’s double last night. I’m really impressed how he hustled all of the way and barely made it into second. 100% guaranteed that Manny would have watched it for a little while and then either get thrown out at second or not even bother trying to get there. It’s strange how those 2 guys can appear to be close buddies, but play so differently. Wouldn’t you think Papi would say something like this… “Hey Manny, friend to friend, why don’t you try running hard out of the box every time like I do?”

And Manny’s response would be “You hit a double last night? Wait, we had a game last night? Who did we play?”

Hey Guys,

I agree with you on the lack of timely offense. I made some comments last night about WMP. He is the anti-clutch. In that respect, he is clutch in being non-clutch. That is why I am able to run various errands when his at bat comes up. He has saved me countless minutes this year so far. I have been able to pay bills, take out garbage, make phone calls during his at-bats. Believe me, this certainty of his ineptitude has allowed me not to pull my hair out. As far as Manny is concerned, that situation is frustrating because he is hitting .300 but has failed so many times in the clutch. I would rather have him hitting say—.280 with 10 clutch hits than what he is doing now.

I understand that the Red Sox are absolutely not clutch this year, but you have to understand how spoiled we’ve been over the past 4 years, mostly with Big Papi’s superhuman ability to get the “big hit” when needed.

Would you rather have a team full of players all hitting below .300 but with 10 comeback wins in the 7th inning or later? Or the batting averages we have now which have carried us to the best record in baseball which usually ensure that we don’t need to come back and win a ballgame because those bats (along with our very strong pitching) assured a win earlier in the game.

According to what a lot of you want, the Sox should be penciled in for roughly 72 wins right now (14 games ahead of the Yankees, with the best record in baseball by 10 games). It’s pretty unreasonable to be frustrated with this team’s lack of clutch hitting right now and maybe it’s because, like I said, we’ve been spoiled with clutch hitting for a while now. But in the playoffs, you can be assured that our starting pitching will not allow for a string of poorly pitched games. And you can also feel confident that we will finish the year with 3 players with 100+ RBI’s in Ortiz, Manny, and Lowell.

With that combination, hopefully we will not be trailing in too many games going into the late innings of playoff games.

Also, I think Manny would have run that double out. He is a different player than we’ve seen in a long time while in Boston. Anybody notice that the only headlines that he received during the upcoming weeks of the trade deadline was regarding his torrid hitting and not his unhappiness in Boston?

All I can say is…what the heck is Terry Francona thinking some times? Bases loaded with one out and you’ve got a chance to tack on an extra run or two. Willie Moe Pena due up against a righty? Three curves and he’s gone! Hello!!!??? Ever think of putting Hinske in?!
If we lost that game by a run or two it would be one man’s fault.. Terry Francona. He needs to stop giving WMP more of a chance to show that he stinks in the clutch and especially against right handed pitching.


don’t get us wrong…alot of us LOVE this team…it is a super collection with vast amounts of ability…the frustration lies in the fact that the team is capable of so much more. Perhaps, you’re right…we have become spoiled with Papi magic but you have to wonder how opposing teams with lesser records seem to get the 2 out hit with more regularity than our sox….and not just the 2 out hit….how about the 1 out bases loaded hit….not asking too much here. Yes, still the best record in baseball but we are now headed into August – September and playoff baseball. This is where the margin of error gets smaller and the lack of run support can not be overlooked.

anybody following the yankees game? I don’t know if I have EVER seen anything like this.

…and that is why you put Hinske in the game and not Wily Mo.

I’m glad to see Jay Payton struggling so badly out there in left field since he left the Sox on such bad terms back in 2005.

Wow, I’m at working trying to follow the games. So the Yankees come back from being down 8-0 to tie it up, and right after that, Baltimore erases a 3-0 lead.
I’m glad I’m going to be busy the rest of the day because I don’t think I would be able to watch this.

Looks like Guthrie has thrown a lot of pitches, so hopefully we can get him out of there pretty soon.

I’m with you zach. Jay Payton is probably my least favorite player in all of baseball for the bad attitude he had while in Boston. Guy has no class I wish nothing but the worst for him.

Wow….Manny got us a run but he also cost us a run with his lack of hustle. How many times have we seen this? Next batter, double play. I think even the Remdawg was biting his lip on this one.

BTW I was thinking of what Rizzo said about the Yankees not beating up on good pitching….Minus Garland today and Meche.

Anyway, I can’t remember so well because it’s been awhile, but the 12 games the Yankees have played with the Red Sox-Tavarez had 2 quality starts (I think), Matsuzaka I believe had one quality and one non quality, Beckett had a non quality, Schilling had a non quality, Wakefield had 2 non qualities, that’s 8 starts, 5 non quality. Can anybody name the starters of the other 4 games and if they were quality or not? I’m not trying to start a battle I’m genuinely interested in how Sox starters have faired against the Yankees because I know the Yankees starters haven’t faired well against Boston.

I think Beckett had a quality one – the one on ESPN on a Sunday night where Okajima gave up the lead and Paps gave up a home run to A-Rod. Other than that I’m drawing a blank.

Do you really think Garland is that good Vince? His ERA is 4.6 and was around 4.2 coming in. Even though this is the AL, that is still pretty mediocre. I will give you Meche though, the Yankees handled him well. However you didn’t hit Guthrie and the Sox are having no problems today.

Here is my list of “good pitching” in the AL:

East: Beckett, Dice-K, Wang, Halladay, Guthrie, Bedard, Kazmir

Central: Bonderman, Verlander, Sabathia, Carmona, Santana, Buerhle, Meche

West: Lackey, Weaver, Hernandez, Blanton

Anyone I am forgetting, or that you would add to the list?

would someone please tell me….how did the Sox f’that one up. A sac fly to the warning track and not able to score.

What happened to Mirabelli? I am watching on Gameday and that ball looked like it was about 5 feet from the wall yet he couldn’t tag and score? I know he has catcher’s speed but that is ridiculous!

I think little leaguers could execute that play better than them.

I was following through game trax on Fox Sports so I didn’t see it. Was it seriously a warning track fly ball and Mirabelli got thrown out at home??


he started to go …then thought he left too early…so he went back to third to retag up…by then it was too late…out by a wide margin…..break down in fundamentals…inexcusable

what a weird game….manny 1 rbi 1 cost run, mirabelli….1 rbi 1 cost run….nice catch by Coco though

How about Haren? Whom they scored 5 runs off of? He was leading the league in ERA at the time. So the Yankees have faced meche, santana, haren, guthrie and Bedard recently, and they gave non qualities to 2 out of 5.

Garland has won the most games of anybody since 2005 and he plays for the whitesox and is 8-7, I consider a 4 era good in the AL, it would be like 3.00 in the NL. If you include Garland than the Yankees are 3/6 since Garland had a great start against them in Chicago.

Including the season, I believe halladay pitched quality, kazmir non quality on opening day, quality recently, beckett a split, matsuzaka a split, guthrie 2/2, bedard 2/2, haven’t faced tigers or those indian pitchers ( I don’t recall either carmona or sabathia pitching at the stadium), santana 1/1, buehrle i think had a non quality, meche non quality, lackey 2/2, i recall weaver struggling, no hernandez and i think blanton had a quality.

By my count that is 6/17 of the starts were non quality by the best of the AL. Including Haren and Garland my count is 8/19.

Seeing as no offense is indestructable, I don’t think that’s so bad.

Go to the gameday page gosoxred and see just as how far it was. It literally looked like it was a foot from the wall in deep right-center.

How could I forget Haren, I still don’t think Garland is though. He was great the last two seasons but this year he has been very inconsistent. I know because he was on my fantasy team for awhile. He pitches 7 innings of shutout ball then has outings like today and against the Twins (a game MIN won 21-14)


the instant replay was too close to call as to whether mirabelli left to early on his intitial tag…9 times out of 10 the umpire won’t accept the appeal should the other team try

I’m listening to the game on GameDay audio and the announcers pretty much said that Mirabelli had a brain cramp. It’s just unbelieveable how many different ways the Red Sox can find to NOT score runs given all the hits and walks we get. What was the third base coach doing at the time? It sounded like a standard Papi high fly to right… that probably gives the third base coach 3-4 seconds to SCREAM at that retard Mirabelli to tag up. Unreal. Hard to believe we are in first place. That cost us at least 1 run… who knows if we could have scored more.

What I don’t understand is why Mirabelli is worried about leaving early. If you did, okay but maybe they won’t catch it. But if you do what Dougie did it is a lose-lose situation. Remember the line from the Sandlot, something like “Don’t think so much just play”

It’s time for Mr. Retard Mirabelli to make up for his brain cramp… Let’s see.

lol well he hasn’t been as consistant, I’ll give you that, but I stick by him being a good pitcher. Even without him, it’s 7/17, so they almost beat 50% of the best pitchers in the league, and let’s not forget Webb, Maine, Glavine and Cain in the NL during interleague. All four were non quality.

Woo Woo… Game over.

Well Dougie officially makes up for it. How about 3-3? He won’t get another 3 hits for a month. Now can we plz see Gagne?

way to redeem yourself, Mirabelli…attaboy!!

bottom line is this team is a 180 from last years team but the same issue persists. a lack of willingness to do what it takes to win now…last year slight lead at the trade deadline, terrible pitching, and they do nothing to improve the staff and what happens…9 and 21 in aug. and they’re done…this year excellent pitching all around but a stagnant offense and what did they do to improve it?…notta…..i hope i’m wrong but this team just looks bad right now even with a 7 game lead….they just look like they’re going through the motions offensively to me. lugo obviously isn’t going to help and who knows how much drew
( even if he started hitting ) will even play given his injury situation and his personal issues….when you gotta count on willy mo you got problems IMO.

The Haren one is moot I believe. Pettite gave up 9 runs that game, I believe Haren might have been sharper in a closer game. Although I know that doesn’t really matter when counting these things.

I know Gagne is going to come in. I wish I could watch it

lol Yeah, you can’t really nitpick, so many of those games had subjective situations.

Bottom 3 in the order (that is Hinske, Mirabelli, Cora): 5-8, 4 runs, 4 rbis

Well smckinny bottom line is the number of W’s. Last year like you said they were 9-21 but this year already 2-0 (6 outs remaining). I would rather have the problem of no hitting and good pitching than what happened last year when the pitching fell apart and everyone got hurt.

the sox’ glaring weak spot…they are overcoming today….nice timely hitting. I have to give credit where credit is due…good job by the Sox!! Hopefully, oki and gagne can take us home now!

with a 4 run lead why aren’t you guys using Delcarmen and Gagne? To me, in a game like this you just create mirrors with the bullpen, Oki and Papelbon in a very close game, delcarmen and Gagne in a close game, that isn’t THAT close.

At least in this situation where Okajima pitched yesterday.

I think they wll move Okajima to situations where the game isn’t as close (say a 4 run lead like today). I believe they would have pitched Gagne in a situation like last night but he had just gotten off the plane.

Mirabelli getting thrown out on a fly ball to the warning track was borderline comical. I’m glad he made up for it though. His last 3-hit game was in 2004, haha.

Looks like some clutch hitting going on in the past two games in the 7th inning, no?

I wonder if Gagne comes in with a 4-run lead or they run Okajima back out there since he had a quick 8th inning. Personally I’m ready for some Gagne.

lol Vince a Yankee fan asking about bullpen use? Isn’t Torre the guy that used to use Proctor in 1 run games in the 8th and also 8 run games?

as long as they do something, past papelbon, the other 3 are interchangeable right now to me. Not that I’d mind if they overworked Okajima or anything.

Yes Rizzo and it drives me insane. He used Vizcaino yesterday too, and he’s our “prominant situation” guy. It makes no sense

Karstens long man, vizcaino loose game 7th inning, Bruney normal game 7th inning (until chamberlain establishes himself), vizcaino setup man in save situation, rivera closer, myers situational, farnsworth mop up or losing. I don’t see how it is so complicated.

Alright here is Gagne, I wish I could see him pitch

just made Millar look silly.

just got a called strike 3 on a pitch way off the plate on tejada

2 batters 2 k’s no balls

double, single, 7-4.

Karma’s a you no what. Bad 3rd strike then a bloop double that Lowell should have had, according to WEEI

That’s accurate, Rizzo, the ball swirled in between lowell and cora.

Could they not give that as an error? No way Gagne should be charged with that run.

No leather contact, no error. Same reason they give you inside the park HR’s at the Metrodome when you loose it in the roof and not 4 base errors.

Maybe 8 by the end of the day. When does the streak of games againts sub .500 teams end Vince? Is it this weekend against the Royals? They have only gained 2 or 3 (pending outcome) since that streak started 3 weeks ago

I could care less if they charge Gagne with a run or not, his stuff looked good. He was throwing 93 with a good looking breaking ball although I’m not sure if I saw the change-up.

That “double” was a pop-up in foul territory that somehow found its way back onto the field and into fair territory. Payton then hit a weak single off of the end of the bat, no big deal if Gagne’s ERA goes up because the bottom line is he looked good and the Sox won.

Seattle is next. I really don’t like playing them. Whenever I watch their games against other teams, their lineup doesn’t look too imposing. Then all of a sudden they play the Sox and I start to fear Beltre and Sexson for some reason.

And Dice-K is facing them for the FOURTH time this season. Did the Mariners somehow get moved into the AL East and I wasn’t informed? I’m sure Japan is loving that.

Rizzo, KC and then Toronto. Six games after today and then Cleveland, who is playing like a sub .500 team. And if the rotations line up, no Carmona or Sabathia in those games.

Still don’t know why you’re worried about the division.

You forgot Kelvim Escobar from the angles he is a really good #2 and garland isn’t that great

escobar had a quality. The Angels should almost be disqualified because the Yankees will never hit them hard when they have to.

looks like it is going to be 8 games ahead after today and i hope we end this road trip up by 6 would be great

I have to worry about the division or baseball from now until the end of the regular season is pointless.

Plus I have seen werider things happen and you can never trust the Yankees to just die when you would like them to.

lol well they aren’t going to die and they will win the wildcard, but it would be the Sox who die to cough up a 7 game lead. I understand about pointless baseball though.

I agree – no way the division is over.

Yankeev – do you not think it is somewhat realistic? It is not just a remote possibility. Like I said before, the Yankees caught 7 games on the Sox where the Sox were not playing particularly poorly. That was in a 2 week time period. Now they have 8 times that time frame to carry out the same objective. And they still have 6 games against them.


U guys r not going to miss both CC & Carmona… I think ur first game will be Vs Carmona. But ur last game is Vs Westbrook so it is as good as a win for Yanks.

And it is 8 game lead in the AL East and not 7 game lead.

There is a good chance that lead will grow rapidly if the Posada’s injury is serious. Vince, what is the latest on POsada’s injury.

Hey gang,
Haven’t been here much since I decided(for the good of the team) to stop watching the games. They responded with a team meeting and all-around better play. Now I can resume watching. (No need to thank me. LOL)

In the meantime I’ve been trying to resurrect my moribund social life; with very Drew-like results. I strike out often(but I look good doing it!), occasionally pop up to the 2nd baseman. But I don’t care, I’m an unapologetic workaholic so I’m happy either way. Seriously, did anyone NOT see this coming when Theo signed Drew? All that talent but zero toughness and heart. Drew is polar opposite of Trot, not that Trot is doing so well this year.

The clutch hitting malaise may be going away. I see good signs in the last few games. If Papi and the boys go into the post season hitting clutch, even singles and doubles, they will be unstoppable. Even with Drew, Pena and ‘Belli still on the team. Assuming good health all around. So cheer up RSN, the dark days of clutch-less hitting appear to be mostly over. All is well in Beantown.

Though the Yankees have played very well in recent weeks, and the Sox have been up and down, Boston still has an eight-game lead over the Yankees on August 2. After this nine-game road trip, where a 6-3 mark is feasible, the Sox have three at Fenway against Tampa Bay and four against the Angels (which have struggled at Fenway Park) before starting a 32-game stretch when they play only one team – the Yankees for three at Yankee Stadium and three at Fenway – against a team above .500. This is a crucial week for the Yankees. If they are not within six by the time Boston returns from this nine-game road trip, their chances of a comeback in the AL East are slim. All the Sox have to do is take care of their own business (winning three-game series and doing no worse than a split in four-game series), and it won’t matter what the Yankees do. After all, the Yankees’ schedule is much tougher starting in mid-August.

Though I will not feel good about the Sox offense until they show they can score five runs on a consistent basis (which is all they need with the exceptional rotation and bullpen), I do feel confident about the Sox chances to maintain a comfortable lead in the AL East.

Jeff… I’ve been reading these posts for several years and no matter how silly or obnoxious they are I’ve never felt the need to respond… until today. How dare you use the word retard in a public forum. I’m **** sure that you wouldn’t use the word ******, spick, or **** (unless you’re with you’re goold old boy friends) in public; but you can use the word retard? I think maybe you are the one who experiences develoipmental disabilities. Yeah, that’s my real name.

Yankees will win the wild card? We’ll see. I like the Indians chances.

jeff i will like the indians when they can hold on to a lead for one year and i hope they do hold on because i am a die hard red soxs fan but maybe the sailers will make it interesting ? who knows

Jim, Rayman is the resident “the sky is falling” president. Everything is negative from his point of view, even if the Sox are on a winning streak. I understand your displeasure of that word, but consider the source. He will find something negative to say even if the Sox win another World Series.

Israel, I think that the Yankees and Mariners certainly have a chance for the wild card, but I think the Indians are a better team than both. Westbrook and Lee are definitely a concern in their rotation, but Byrd somehow manages to win, and Carmona and Sabathia are having career years. I think the Cleveland and Detroit will be neck and neck all the way to the final game of the season.


i like the tribes top pithcers but i don’t trust their bullpen and the team as a whole till it actuall hangs on for once

o and far as JD goes i don’t think i could do any thing to if my son was having a operation and in the hospital so give the man a break at least he is trying to play

Re Drew. I was not talking about his son’s operation. Just his season-long non-production and lack of heart. I would be with my son too, but that doesn’t explain his year of indifference.

he could have known about it for a long time and went thro all the hoops and **** just saying

medical stuff takes a long time to get it straight about what they want to do

I think the wild card will be a 3 team race, Indians, Mariners and Yankees. Tigers should prevail and win the division by 4 games. The Tribe don’t have any starting pitching depth at all. The downfall for the Mariners will be there starting pitching. If I’m betting I put my money on the Yankees to get the wild card. These teams had a chance to separate themselves from the Yankees and failed to do so. We all know how that turns out. Yankees will make the playoffs but they’ll be out so fast.

Let’s see if Drew breaks out and finishes the year strong, if the medical problems are resolved. I hope so and wish the guy well. I’m not fond of him, I think he has a spoiled brat attitude, ever since college, but I’d love to be wrong about him.

i hope the idians will win the wild card, if the sailors starters turn it on after we play them then they have agreat shot and the yankees haven’t play any good teams in a while to lets see them do it against some good teams first

ya i don’t like is attitude either but we are stuck with him so lets hope this is like coco’s year last and he comes around sooner then later

Mrs. Drew break out of it, I have my doubts.I would love to be wrong.It would be great to watch him hit a game winning homer in the playoffs. Better chance of Brian Cashman being named executive of the year.

lol i think you are right about that lmo but like i said we are stuck with him so……

>>I’m not trying to start a battle I’m genuinely interested in how Sox starters have faired against the Yankees because I know the Yankees starters haven’t faired well against Boston.

Ymm: Here’s the Info you wanted.

4/10: Schilling 7IP 5R (X)

4/11: Beckett 6.2IP 5R (X)

4/12: Matsuzaka 7IP 6R (X)

4/27: Matsuzaka 6IP 4R (X)

4/28: Wakefield 5.1IP 3R (X)

4/29: Tavarez 5IP 3R (X)

5/21: Wakefield 5IP 6R (X)

5/22: Tavarez 5.2IP 2R (X)

5/23: Schilling 6IP 6R (X)

6/1: Wakefield 3.2IP 8R (X)

6/2: Schilling 5IP 4R (X)

6/3: Beckett 6.1IP 4R (X)

12 games, no quality starts (6ip+ and 3er-).

Oh, ok, so then Rizzo you shouldn’t concern yourself with how the bats do against good pitching because they seem to hurt the Sox.

Wow, 0/12 that is amazing to me, I had no idea.

Brendan, It’s possible, anything is possible in this sport, but I can’t say it’s realistic.

Kumar, Posada left the game with dehydration, I don’t think you see a trip to the DL for that. I know you love to try and find a way to paint the yankees in a negative light, but maybe you should check why players leave games before you assume they are injured.

The Indians have one solid reliever and two great pitchers. Though Sabathia’s ERA is right in the range of Wang. So really it’s Carmona and a mediocre Byrd with two scrubs, or Pettitte, Clemens, Hughes and Mussina, a veteran scrub. The Tribe’s pen is even worse than the Yankees and their closer is a mismatch. They are also playing bad baseball right now and traditionally do so at this time of year. I am not scared of them one bit and I see no reason to feel otherwise. They have been playing above their heads, Carmona included.

Oh and to make matters worse, the Tribe play about 12 games more against teams over .500 than the yankees, including 10 with the Twins. They both have Detroit 8 times.

Thank you pen for the info, btw.

Oh, slight apologies Kumar, you were referring to the banged knee. It is not serious. He mainly left as a result of day game after night game and 95 degree heat. But he did bang knees at home plate and it is bruised. Still, not a serious injury and I doubt he misses too much time, if any.

Again though, Jeff is correct. If the division falls it would be a collapse from the Sox, not a surge from the Yankees. NY will continue to play solid baseball, but the Sox have as easy, if not an easier schedule for the rest of the season. I just can’t see them falling off that badly, though I will hope they do, it’s sweeter that way.

Good news Red Sox fans… 31% of our remaining games are against the Devil Rays and the White Sox.

In fact 23% against the Rays alone. Ah, feasting on the Rays minor leaguers. Like chum to a shark.

Rays are a good younge hitting team that is hungery so it wont be a cake walk but they are a easy team as far as al east teams go

I can guarantee you walk on the other Sox though. They are in a bad place right now.

agreed the rays are better then them right now

Guys,we can hang on to win this thing.ALl we need to do is just win games.Keep winning and really put pressure on the Yanks.Also by the way,I heard Michael Kay on the YES the other day cutting on Theo.He was saying how Theo didnt make any sense trying to get Jermaine Dye because they have JD Drew.

The Yankees will most likely win the wild card this year because they take care of the teams they are supposed to take care of (ie: the Tampa Bay’s and Chicago’s of the MLB world) whereas Cleveland struggles to win series’ against Texas and Seattle is streaky and has poor starting pitching.

The Yankees basically bash their way to victory because Wang is their only credible starting pitcher as of now. Say what you want about Hughes but until he strings together some solid starts, he’s nothing more than the pitching version of Wily Mo Pena: a lot of potential.

I hope the Sox meet up with the Yankees in the ALCS, because let’s be honest, playoff games vs. New York always bring out the best in both teams as well as some of the whackiest incidents you’ll ever see (80 year old men being thrown on their head, groundskeeper vs. bullpen staff brawls, etc.).

Hopefully the Sox can take advantage of Seattle’s weak pitching, thankfully we are missing King Felix and should handle Washburn and Batista while feasting on Horacio Ramirez tomorrow night.

JD Drew, my heart goes out to you, your wife, and your infant son. Regardless of how you play the rest of the season, I pray that the Lord brings health to your son and peace to your family because at the end of the game our children and grandchildren are the only lasting legacies. Cal Ripken, Jr. recently had his Hall of Fame status put into perspective when a Little Leaguer asked him if he ever played baseball. Baseball may be a great metaphor for life but its no substitute for it. From now on I’ll keep my frustrations about your play in proper perspective and say a prayer for your success.
I still wish the Sox had picked up Jermaine Dye at whatever cost. We could have platooned the two of you in right field and at DH because I don’t think Big Papi’s knee is going to last into October.

Nation, we all better pray that it does or we’ll end up being the 2001 Seattle Mariners. Pitching and defense may win championships but you can’t win if you don’t score.

Well yeah.Maybe the 2007 Sox in the postseason will be one of those teams where someone just steps up and becomes a hero.Maybe an unlikely guy like Lugo might step up and be heroic in a game in a short series.Like how Mirabelli was heroic in this game.A lot of championship teams had that one or two heros thing going.

I think the big test series for us will be the one against the Angels.If we can take atleast two out of three convincingly,I think we look to be in great postseason shape.

I think the biggest sign over the past 2 days is that the Sox scored late (7th inning) in a game with the game tied or training for the first time in a long time. We have questioned their “clutchess” over the past few months based on their record when losing after 6-7 innings and rightfully so. Granted, the Baltimore bullpen is nothing to write home about, but this team showed a lot more spark the past 2 days than they did against Chicago and Cleveland and TB. Let’s face it, with the exception of Buerhle (who we didn’t face) the White Sox stink out loud and Cleveland has been real bad lately and Tampa Bay…well, they’re Tampa Bay. The Sox didn’t have to come back in those games because they jumped out early to take leads and their great pitching held on for the wins. Baltimore just took 2 of 3 from the Smoking Hot Yankees and then Bedard beat the Sox Tuesday night. They were essentially the hottest team in the AL (besides NY)when this series started.
Now it’s off to Seattle. While I agree with chman that winning in LA will be huge, I think as good as Seattle has been lately and the fact that the Sox don’t play well there, this series could be the jump start the Sox need to break away. NY is done with the sub .500 month long fiesta that they had after this weekend with KC, so maybe they can come down to earth.

We all knew that July and early August was going to be the litmus test for the Sox since they were facing decent teams and the Yanks had their easier part of the schedule. If the Sox still have 7 + game lead at the end of this 9 game road trip, things look real good.

That list penwhale provided does shed some light on the Yankee success against Red Sox pitching. But why is the quality start stat the be all end all for discussions? A guy that throws 6 innings of 3 run ball (4.5) is better than a complete game with 4 runs (4.0)?

Penwhale fails to mention that those starters won 5 of the games.

On 5/22, Tavarez gave up 2 in 5 2/3 for a 3.17.

On 4/21 Beckett pitched from the 2nd inning on with the lead.

On 4/29 Tavarez(W) gave up 3 runs in 5 innings on 1 mistake to Mientkiewicz. Other than that: 2 hits

So that is 3 out of 12 that were “successful” starts. Still nothing to write home about but I don’t see why the quality start is relied upon. In none of my posts do I ever mention that or use it when comparing how good or effective a pitcher is. I mean in what sport or any walk of life for that matter are we considered the most successful when we do something worse than the next guy? Someone who goes 5 innings and gives up 0,1,2 runs constantly may win a cy young but another can go 6, give up 3 and be considered a “quality” pitcher. It is almost laughable.

Just needed to vent on how dumb a statistic the quality start is.

Also forgot that on 4/27 Matsuzaka was given a huge lead and Boston won 11-4 I believe. It wasn’t a quality start but it was effective. You also don’t know what the offense did in a game. For example, if your team gives you 12 runs in the first 3 innings, you would rather give up 5 in 8 then 2 in 6 and have your pitch count be high.

Likewise in a game when you give up 2 runs in 7 innings and your team scores you none, I believe you didn’t do your job successfully, yet it is a quality start.

You can take any stat and make it look good to the party you are trying to please and the info penwhale provided makes the Yankees look amazing. Also in writing those numbers he failed to mention that the Red Sox went 7-5 so I think on the whole the pitching was successful.

Sox bats should be alive and well tonight. Ramirez is batting practice. Let’s hope Lester can keep his emotions in check tonight. Lester should be 2-0 going into tonight’s game.

The stats penwhale presented about Sox starters against the Yankees mean very little. Of course the SOx are going to give up more runs against the Yankees than most teams. The Yankees have a formidable offense. The fact that penwhale and the stats don’t present is that the starting pitchers for the most part kept the Sox in the game, gave them a chance to win. The bullpen did the same. The Yankees rotation, although better now than earlier in the season, does not have one starter who consistently shuts down opposing teams, so the Sox bats are able to score off the starters and then pound the atrocious Yankees bullpen. Too many times people rely on stats to determine what will happen. Some stats do accurately paint a picture of how good or bad a player or a team is. Many stats do not. And there are many intangibles that stats do not tell. In reality, only one stat matters anyway – a team’s record.


Jeff, I think you missed the concept of the argument.

Rizzo questioned if the Yankees offense has actually consistantly beaten good pitching, so we used the Sox rotation as an example, I was also curious as to how they have faired.

So by you saying “of course the Yankees scored more runs than most teams” you proved my exact point.

Rizzo, you’re willing to use if they won or not as concrete reasoning but not a quality start? Offense is the most subjective thing about a pitching performance. The fact of the matter is the Yankees put runs on the board against your starters, whether they threw 100 pitches and left by the 6th or threw 120 and left after 8, if they performed poorly, chances are the offense did well. You don’t say “the sox pitcher’s did good because they won” or “the sox pitchers did good because they kept them in the game” because they kept them in the game as a result of the poor yankees pitching, that has nothing to do with the Yankees offense.

Vince, I was directly responding to the stats that penwhale posted on each game a Sox starter has pitched against the Yankees this season. For the most part, Sox starters have kept the Sox in a position to win against the Yankees this season. I remember a start by Dice-K, Schilling and Beckett where they had a rough inning or two but settled down and gave them a chance to win the game. That is all you can ask for your starters.

Manny never ceases to amaze me. Bases loaded 1 out and a bloop to right and the guy is running full steam without checking the 3rd base coach. Obviously Youk was going to have to wait to see if it was going to fall in. Tough way to run yourself out of an inning.
Hope that doesn’t come back to haunt them.

4 hits, 1 run. If I remember correctly, that’s exactly how the game against Felix Hernandez started the last time the Sox were in Seattle.

Manny is an idiot savant… All he can do is hit.

I understand that Jeff, but I’m explaining why he posted those stats. We weren’t discussing if the Sox pitchers did their job each game, we were seeing how the Yankees offense performed against the Sox starters. In other words, knowing the innings and the runs was all that was necessary.

Time to make all those hits count this inning. It would be nice to see a blowout end the Sox losing streak in Seattle.
I’m on the extra innings package and they showed a stat that says the Sox have the 2nd best record in baseball when scoring first at 48-14.

Let’s hope that holds up.

That was a laser by Papi. Nice to see that his last 3 HR’s have been off lefthanded pitchers.
One run an inning….6 more of those should make for a nice game.

Pedroia must have done his “Bobby Brady” pull ups this morning. An inch shorter and that is a hit into right.

Well I guess Timlin just answered the question of whether he was ready to take on more responsibility in the bullpen. An awful throw over to first after a Lugo error, who didn’t see a run coming? And then of course, a 2-run shot in the next inning to put this game completely out of reach.

I’m not happy I stayed up for this.

What a waste. Bases loaded in the 1st with one out and in the 2nd with no outs and they only get one run each time.
Manny hits into a double play with 1st and 2nd and no outs and surprise, surprise, strikes out in the 7th with a chance for a big hit.

Lester shows his 2006 form by only being able to go 5 innings due to a high pitch count.

Timlin can not pitch in Safeco. This place is jinxed for him.

Well, the goal is to win each series from here on out. Tough way to start this one, especially since it’s 9 in a row dropped at this place.

Dice K can not walk 6 batters tomorrow and expect to win. Sox need to jump on Washburn.

Lineup needs to capitalize on golden opportunities like the first 2 innings.

If you get a moment and want to read something entertaining and amusing, visit Sox and Pinstripes to see the post about John Barnes, the former minor league (and major league, for a cup of coffee) outfielder who is now 31 and advancing through the Sox farm system as a knuckleballer. It might make you at least temporarily forget that the Sox seem to mail it in when they are down by even just a run or two after six innings.


Of course, return to Brownie Points when you are done reading. lol.

I think its a safe bet that Manny is the worst base runner in the league… Starting from home… he rarely runs out of the box, he’ll have a brain cramp at any time, at any base… including running into guys and getting thrown out at third as the first or third out… and of course, if he passes home plate, he’ll never help the runner behind him. It’s painful to know he’s making $20M and is that retarded on the bases.

wow….what a debacle…..this team just finds new ways to look horrible seemingly every other night…..1) they have to have the worst 3rd base coach in history…2) the offense still stinks…..forget the insane errors by lugo and timlin they still only managed 4 runs off of 12 hits……3) while i have the utmost respect for what lester has gone through and come back, based on what i saw last year and thus far this year they traded the wrong guy for gagne….he just doesn’t have good enough stuff to get away with mistakes and he is nowhere near as precise as he needs/has to be in order to be successful.

Manny Ramirez I assume went to the Charlie Brown school of baserunning. ( Wade Boggs was a graduate of that school as well ) When I was a little kid, you were always taught look ahead at the baserunner in front of you. Basics there but then again we are talking about Manny Ramirez. Sox had 12 hits and 4 runs, I think we have seen this before. 3 ingredients to winning baseball, pitching ( Sox have ) defense ( Sox are top 5 there ) timely hitting ( we all know the story there ) We keep waiting to see some timely hits and drive in some runs. Last night if the Sox did they would have won early.

I personally didn’t think Manny’s base running blunder was that horrible. It’s not like he got thrown out dogging it to 2nd base or something, he could tell that Lowell’s little blooper was going to fall into the outfield and he put his head down and ran. Unfortunately, Youkilis couldn’t tell whether the ball would drop or not so he had to hold up. It wasn’t as bad as a lot of people are making it out to seem.

I had no problem with Lester’s outing last night. He has been throwing under 100 pitches in each of his first three starts, and once he can go over that, he should be able to provide 6-7 innings of decent pitching.

Why did Francona send Timlin back out in the 7th? I knew it would be trouble.

The Mariners get their 4th look at Dice-K tonight, who knows what to expect. All I am asking for is a minimum of 6 innings of solid pitching from Matsuzaka, then hand the bullpen over a lead so we can finally see that 7-8-9 punch everybody’s been waiting for.

PS: Youkilis was back in the #2 hole last night and went 2-4. Anybody noticing a trend? Why is this man hitting in the 5th slot when he struggles so badly?

Ramirez’ baserunning was pretty bad because it took the Red Sox out of the inning. It changed the complexion of the inning. He should LOOK at the baserunner ahead of him next time.

I certainly like the idea of Youkilis hitting in the 2 spot, that to me is his perfect spot in the order. Lowell to me should be in the 5 spot. I also would agree about sending Timlin back for the 7th inning, that obviously was a bad move.

If the Red Sox ever learn how to hit with runners on base they will go a long way if not all the way.

I agree that Manny’s baserunning blunder cost the Sox a big inning. Of course, they had many other chances to put a crooked number on the board in an inning, but were unable to take advantage.

Youkilis is definitely best suited for the No. 2 spot. Since he has proven he can hit for average, and produce runs, he should not be taken out of that spot since he does neither when he is No. 5. Though Lowell is most comfortable at No. 6 and has thrived their most of the season, I agree that he should be plugged in the No. 5 spot.

Regarding Timlin in the seventh, Francona has habit of sticking with his pitchers one inning too long, relievers included. His decisions have hurt the Sox on numerous occasions. I especially don’t understand why Timlin returned for a second inning when he has been experiencing shoulder soreness, and the fact that Boston has such a reliable bullpen.

Deep and solid outings by Dice-K and Beckett are definitely needed today and tomorrow. The Sox need to win this series and end this Safeco skid.


francona is way too patient with everyone but especially pitchers and particularly veterans like timlin, wake, and tavares. patience did work out with pedroia but i just don’t get why lugo is still starting every game. at best he should be platooning with cora. it’s obvious he ( lugo ) just doesn’t have it this year and it’s not like he’s going to win any gold gloves defensively. i don’t blame manny’s situation on the bases last nite on him i blame it on that blind 3rd base coach. if manny could see the ball was going to drop why couldn’t he ( the coach )? and why wasn’t youklis being waived home? personally i think he’s made so many poor decisions over there he’s gotten gun shy.

Great job by Dice-K to get himself out of the jam two innings in a row.

Bases loaded with 1 out in the 3rd : no run.

Runners on 1st and 3rd with 1 out in the 4th : no run.

Now if he could just stay out of trouble in the 5th for a change, that would be great …. Speaking of change, good hustle by Manny on the go ahead run.

O no,brace yourselves guys,this may be the rough inning.

One more strike please…

YES!!!Way 2 go Dice Man!!!Wooooohoooo!!!!

We are now in Gagne,Oki,and J-Paps territory.

Dice-K takes the back roads tonight but he still gets the job done. Top of the order again for the Sox in the 7th.

99 pitches so far for Dice-k so yeah, i guess Oki is just around the corner. Then Gagne and then Pap. Better yet, if we could get 1 or 2 more runs Pap could just sit and enjoy the Gagne show.

Well R_Sox im getting ready to put this one in the books.Lets go Sox my dude?

Yup. And Dice-K is still there. Awh man, a long one.

Is it me or Lugo has an underrated arm ? He sometimes throws lasers to 1st.

Yup,well Dice man has got a nice bull pen watching his back.He needs not to worry.

He actually does.Ive noticed his throwing,he does throw better than people would make u tink.

Dude what do you think of D-Ped in the lead off spot?

2nd hole is best suited for him imo but given Lugo’s hitting, i guess it’s an o.k. move. But Coco, to me, could be in that hole right now as well. Problem is, if you put Ped in the 2nd hole where do you put Youk ? We have 2 good 2nd hitter, and no effective lead off man right now.


I agree with having Coco lead off.That would mean either D-Ped or Youk would have to settle for a lower part of the order spot.Tito should know wat to do.

ah ****,Shaggy just struck out.

Here’s “game over”. Also known as The Gagne Show.

so far im enjoyin it.Haha

We are a team with three closers.Paps,Oki,and Gagne.

no,sumone tell me this is NOT happening…

Now i don’t like it at all. Bring Pap for the last 4 outs.

Yeah man,I dont want us to hit the August Swoon like last year!No!Someone do something quick!Pesy Mariners.

Or not ! That’s what a Cy Young award will do for you. It gives you confidence that ” hey, i’m better than most of these guys “.


Anyways man,I gotta get off the computer.Ill be gone for this week coming up.Have a good one.God Bless you and everyone else here.Have a good one!LETS GO SOX!!!

I assume we got this one in the bag.

C you later. GO SOX !

Typical Pap stint. Made it interesting but got the last word on Beltre and wraped the W. Huge win on the road, especially with the Yanks not slowing down.
And great efforts by Dice-K and Manny.

Sox lead 2-0 and with a couple of hits it should be 5-0 if not more. What is the Sox average with runners in scoring position? Does anyone know? Where do they rank in baseball? I would love to know.

6 LOB in 3 innings. Another poor job with RISP and 2 outs by Cora. Manny is really starting to rub me the wrong way as he does the majority of people here. All those double play grounders and his inept baserunning.

Beckett was really pissed after his last start and he is throwing absolute gas today with a wicked deuce.

Beckett’s curve seems to be right on, nice change as well going. Sox lead should be at least 5 runs. They’re letting Seattle hang around.

If beckett wins I’ll be content

Glad Manny can me prove me wrong!

Me no talk english very nice.

What I meant to say was: Glad Manny can prove me wrong!

There’s some nice clutch 2-out hitting late in the game from Drew and Lowell.

For all of the runners the Sox leave on base, you have to consider the fact that they are probably the most patient team in baseball plus they can hit. Put those two together and you have a lot of base runners. So while I don’t have the exact RISP statistics, I’d venture a guess that they are still top 5 in the AL in knocking those runners home. It’s just magnified when the bases are loaded with 1 out and they don’t get the job done, but generally they do a good job.

I agree there. To leave lots of runners on base you have to get on base a lot first. Success percentage would be a better indication than the actual number of runners left ISP. Not to mention that it’s magnified in the last 3 innings.

Could someone please let me know what roster move is expected to bring Schilling back? Is it Lopez to AAA? Does he still have options?



Yes, that is how Beckett shows upon the Official site ……

Rizzo, don’t sweat about your grammer skills, LOL.

Brendan, Lopez and Delcarmen are the only Sox pitchers with remaining options. Since Gagne is an additional solid set-up man, I think the Sox can afford to have Okajima as the lone lefty in the bullpen for the next three weeks. I bet the Sox will option Lopez to Pawtucket and bring him back on September 1 when the rosters expand. It would be a mistake to DFA Kyle Snyder.


Some how, Cora does something good every time he plays. What a play he made today on that line drive.

Another dive toward the Gold Glove for Coco Crisp. If he could only throw.

Drew hasn’t hit, but he can play defense. He made a couple of nice catches today too. Doesn’t seem like it now, but his triple was big at the time.

Beckett is awesome…. period!

I think Batista should have been called for a balk when he got Lugo. He stopped his motion and ran toward third base when Lugo broke for third. He was not making a pickoff attempt. He simply stopped and stepped off the rubber (not backwards).

Is Tiger Woods the best at what he does in Professional Sports, or what?

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