No more no-no

Less than 24 hours after Roger Clemens no-hit the Red Sox through 5 1/3 innings, Chien-Ming Wang no-hit the Red Sox through six. I think Derek Jeter got Wang out of rhythm with his throwing error to start the seventh. Mike Lowell stepped right up after that and slammed a single to right. Perhaps the momentum will carry the Red Sox to a late-game comeback.

It looks like the umps got the call right on Youk being out of the baseline. 

So far, I guess you would have to call today the Cano Show!

More later,



Of course the last no hitter between the Sox and Yankees was Righetti’s no no. Wade Boggs struck out for the final out and he said it was his most embarassing moment of his career. That of course was a mid day game like today ( 4th of July as we all know when Righetti did his )

These Sox bats are dead in this series. The Yankees have outpitched the Red Sox so far.

Even the SanDiego Padres Offense is much better than the RedSox Offense. No-hitter in the 2 consecutive games. Pathetic offense.

The Redsox hitless through 6.. What exactly is surprising about that?? Cora + Drew + Varitek + Crisp + Hinske = NO CHANCE WHATS SO EVER!!! This is by far the worst lineup in Redsox history. At this point we need to contact Jerry Remy and Jim Rice and see if they can temporarily fill in at Short stop and Right Field to help boost a nonexistent offense. Anybody else out there have any better ideas???

helluva effort by schill but if he stays in the game i think my head will explode. not that matters. not much diff between 2-0 and 50-0. if your on the wrong end.

How about Kelly Lee from the Bad News Bears. That kid could hit. Have Rudy Stein replace J.D. Drew.

lowell is our best player!

JD Drew is the worst player on RedSox roster in recent memory. How many of u think so?

I would agree with you kumar about J.D. Drew saying he is the worst player in recent memory. He has no passion at all, gutless and no fire inside his belly. I am sure he is one of the least respected guys on that team. Not a guy his team-mates would pull for.

I would have to be in total agreement with kumar0330, Nancy Drew just hit into a rally killing double play maybe we can let Curt hit and have our DH hit for Drew instead. I don’t know the rules on that one though.

Not only is he not hitting , he is messing up the whole offense.

And also I will be stunned if Dave Magadan returns as the hitting coach next season. He is safe for this season as it would be too late to fire him during this time of the season. Dave Magadan’s achivements so far this season.

Manny’s worst season of the career.

JD Drew’s worst Season.

Lugo’s Worst Season of his career.

Papi’s worst Power-outage season with the RedSox.

I dont know if that was the right call or not but i dont like umpiring overall this season. What can we say about drew?

We have no chance to win this **** game. The sox can’t hit, we’re basically swept, and the yanks r basically gonna be just 5 games back and leading the wild card. If we ever face them in the postseason, i dont think we would beat them. The offense is too good, and their mediocre pitching dominates us bcause our hitters stink. We cannot win, especially if they bring in Joba and Rivera. Drew and Coco are autmatic outs anyways.

I dont thing this game and espacially this season is over but this series is very depressing so far.

sorry for the spelling

As good as Farrell has done as pitching coach, Magadan has done the total opposite.

I wouldn’t give up on today’s game just yet, especially if we can get Papi to the plate with baserunners on vs. Jobah. That should be interesting.

A positive to take out of today’s game so far is Schilling. If he continues to improve each start (which he has in each of his past 4), that gives us a formidable rotation heading into the playoffs of Beckett-Schilling-Matsuzaka-Wakefield.

I personally think that if the game was at Fenway, the umpires would not have reversed the call. It was borderline at best but they basically were bullied into changing the call by the Stadium.

Aside from Drew, How long are we going to go with Lugo and Cora at Short Stop?? Lugo is a .230 hitter and Cora is even worse… Crisp, Cora, Hinske, Lugo and Drew are all automatic outs. No Manny = No Playoffs. Something needs to be done.

The only positive we can take out of this series is that our pitching staff pitched very well against a loaded Yanks Offense. The same can’t be said abt the Offense, JD Drew & Magadan.

you know the sweep really doesn’t surprise me. ithought they might win one. but to be THAT BAD offensively against that staff is really alarming. and everybody has a right to hate on drew but i’m hear to tell ya while he might seem to make more of an effort day in day out tek is just as bad when you get right down to it with regards to clutch hitting. i love him but it’s true. i’ll say it again w/o manny if they DON’T start to get production from drew, tek, and youk this team is in A LOT of trouble. their pitching is really good but no but it ain’t that good. nobody’s ever has been or will be.

zachary. i apreciate what you’re saying about pitching. BUT they are in the process of holding the best off in b-ball to 11 runs ( slightly less than 4 per game ) in 3 games at their yard and are still going to get swept. how much more can they possible do? their offense is an absolute train wreck.

At this point – JD Drew needs to sit on the bench. If this team wants to make a run in the playoffs, then they need a better bat in the line-up. After the Sept call-ups, they should let someone else (like Moss) get the 1 month of experience to be ready for October. They can’t do any worse than JD.

Our Pitching has been great. I think Schilling has been sharp today and it must be fustrating to know that he needs to pitch a no hitter to win. I agree with Joe, we need to bring up Elsbury to play CF, Moss for RF, Jed Lowrie for SS and Chris Carter for 1b/OF. Carter and Elsbury are Ready for Stardom Now so why not put them in…

Bullied into reversing that call? Are you drunk? He had both feet on the grass at one point! It would have been a crime had they not reversed it.

Oh, I’m done. I love being swept out of New York this late in the season.

Go home, re-group, and for cryin’ out loud Red Sox – please get your game on in time for the post season.

No, are you?

When A-Rod tried to apply the tag on Youk, he was completely within the basepath. After A-Rod made a “tagging” swipe at Youkilis and missed, he threw to first base. It was during the throw that Youkilis’ feet touched the grass.

According to the rule book, the runner has to stay within 3 feet of the basepath when a play is being made on him. When A-Rod made the play to tag Youkilis, he was well within the basepath. It was until afterwards where he left it, and even then it is up for debate whether he was 3 feet ouside of the basepath.

The 3B umpire made the initial call, Torre comes out to argue, the fans start to go nuts at the suspicion that the call might get reversed, and it ultimately does.

Regroup??haha, With What?? Theo and Company decided to get rid of one of the only offensive players we had and then went out and got another overpriced and overrated player named Gagne. We can only hope that Drew hurts his shoulder while wacking it in the shower so that we can void the last 2 years of his contract.

the dirt is not =to the basepath, the basepath is an imaginary straight line. Hence why when you’re running to second you can’t go to the outside edge of the dirt because, though it is dirt, it is not baseline. The fact he was on the grass, means he was well out of the 3 foot range. Going out of the baseline was a result of dodging the tag, true A Rod threw it first, but youk had no reason to be out of the baseline if not for an after effect of dodging the tag, why else would he be in that spot? So yes, he was out.

The baseline = the middle of the basepath. Find me the dimensions of a baseball field and tell me what the measurements are from the edge of the infield grass to the “basepath” before you are so sure that he was out.

Also, Chamberlain has some stones to be throwing at Youk’s head two times in a row in a 5-0 game. He’s pitched 11 innings in the major leagues, I’m sure baseball will find a way to humble him quickly in his next outing.

Yankeevmm, very good you dork now back to your bedroom until you mommy tells you dinner is ready..geez who cares… The Sox were beat in the third inning when Cano hit a home run so does the call really matter?

If any of that even closely resembled English, I’m sure on some level I might attempt to take offense to it? Seeing as it wasn’t, I’ll answer your question. Yes, the call, at the time mattered, if he was safe a basehit would have tied the game. In hindsight, no it doesn’t matter anymore because the Sox were steamrolled.

The Sox really need to do something after this unbelievablably disappointing sweep. They Yanks are back in the **** division race AGAIN. I doubt they’ll make the same mistakes that hey did in Detroit. The Sox need to do something, anything to start winning again. But no manny for 10 days is not gonna help at all. Drew is the most worthless player on the face of the earth. He makes Pavano eem more effective than he is.

There’s no a lot to like right now about our beloved Red Sox. Coming from the windy city where balls were flying everywhere to bombing out in the Bronx…

Looking over our shoulder….again.

You might want to retake that EN101 course you took at your local Junior College or at least get your money back cause you be STUPID mister Yankeevmm. Don’t you have a Star Trek convention to attend.

Brownharley, shut up.

Some positives heading into the last month of the season:

1.) 5 game lead in the division.

2.) 6 games left vs. Baltimore, no Bedard on Saturday since he’s skipping that start due to injury.

3.) 6 games left vs. Tampa Bay.

4.) 18 out of the remaining 28 games are at Fenway.

Then again, without Manny our batting order goes from “solid” to “below average”.

Zachary, Don’t take me the wrong way. I am a die hard Sox Fan and their are many positives.. Our pitching I think is the best in the Majors. I am just fed up with the decision to play zeros like Drew, Lugo, Cora, Hinske, Kielty and Crisp. My gripe is that all the pitching in the world isn’t going to get up very far in the playoffs without at least some offense to go with it.

Wow…..what a horrific series that was. The Sox once again couldn’t deliver the death blow. The Yanks delivered big in the series. However, not to take anything away from Wang, the Sox offense showed once again it how bad it is against mediocre pitching. Those blowouts in Chicago carry little weight when the offense ***** in tight games and allows a pitching staff that ranks 17th in MLB to no-hit them for 12 innings. WAKE UP BRAIN DEAD SOX MANAGEMENT!! The Sox will probably make it to the playoffs but the Yanks, Mariners and Angels of the the world will easily cream them if Sox management continues to f’up this.

The bottom line is the Yankees outpitched the Red Sox. Of course the lineup without Manny is a little easier to pitch to. Without Ramirez they have to step it up and they didn’t. The Sox had the Yankees right where they wanted them, coming off a 16-0 loss and the Red Sox coming off a great weekend. Talking about fools gold. Ellsbury should be in the lineup soon.

I know this is out of topic, but r u guys disappointed by Dice K? We have realized that he is no Pedro, or Clemens, and we realize that sometimes its hard to even watch this guy pitch. He is a very meticulous pitcher that looks like he wants to strike everyone out. I think that he should use his fastball as his main weapon and try to get more ground balls, instead of striking everyone out. I know its difficult to critique someone in his first year in the majors, but sox fans will critique him because of the $100 million. I, honestly think that has been very decent during the season. Obviously the record doesn’t matter because Dice hasn’t gotten much run support, but i think that he has done a decent job. The only way i think he can improve is by trying to get more ground balls so he doesn’t have 120 pitches by the 6th inning.

Why was Chamberlain ejected? Did he throw two balls near Youk’s head like Gameday suggested?

This may be a case where the bonehead pride of the front office will cost the Sox a run at the series. Admit you made a mistake, eat your 14 mil, and get JD OUT OF THE LINEUP!!!! God, Sept. 1st can’t get here fast enough. Let some of the kids like Elsbury play. Have Drew clean the concession stands..that will give you more bang for your buck there.

Drew is just horrible, useless! How long Tito is going to tolerate him?! He caused us more games than Gag-me!
That’s just so disappointing that we can’t build any offense to help our pitchers! What will happen in the post-season then (if we ever get there)?

I think the whole club is too relaxed now. We need to start really playing or teams will catch up to us quick.

…And please, please, someone take Drew out of our line-up!

Just curious, but how many of the people who want Ellsbury to start know his stats in AAA? What his average is, how he fares against lefties/righties, what sort of power potential he has, how many errors he has this season, how he hits fastballs/breaking balls, etc.

It was sad that the Sox couldn’t find more at bats for Willy Mo. He now has more homers than guess who…JD Druse-less.

First off the Yankees didn’t out pitch us. Our lame lineup couldn’t hit the ball even if you put is on a toddler tee.. Secondly, Elsbury is a line drive hitter with top notch speed. He would hit for a better average than .260 hitter Coco plus I think he is a bit faster. Chris Carter is another player that I think would make our lineup a whole lot better. He is a .300 RBI hitter with power to all fields someone who would fit nicely in the 5th spot if the Redsox give him a chance.

well said harley. I am not crazy for CoCo puffs or Nancy Drew. With Nancy, there is no sense of urgency. I have never seen anyone take so many pitches in the strike zone so late in the game with the game on the line.

Brownharley – Pedroia is a .310 hitter, and was always going to be a major leaguer, but that didn’t stop him hitting a buck something when he came up last year. Isn’t it a bit risky bringing new guys in in the middle of a pennant race?

DISAPPOINTED IN ****-K. i’m doin my best jim mora
( PLAYOFFS rant ) impression here. in his 11 losses boston has scored a total of 12 or 13 runs. he should easily have 18 – 19 wins. he needs to work on his control but overall for a first year guy he’s been oustanding IMO. i’m sorry people but ellsbury at his best is another OBP guy. he is not the answer here. who is gonna get him home? he’s been only a slighly above avg hitter in the minors what makes you think he’ll be any better against ML pitchers? not sayin he’ll be any worst but isn’t the goal to get better? they better be lookin at the waiver wires. i know nady from the pirates cleared waivers. he’s got some power and can play decent outfield. he might be a good pick up. and youk was out. since they don’t have replay i don’t know how/why they would reverse it but he was out. he should have slid under the tag. not that it would have mattered because tek struck out to end the inning. again.

I wonder what the Sox average is with RISP when they are down by 2 or fewer runs? I don’t know but I bet is it really, really bad.

and you saw the flip side of not getting your bullpen enough work today. those guys need to pitch semi-reg or they get rusty. that might be a lil monday morning qb but still a fact.

Yankees did outpitch the Red Sox in this series. I am not saying there pitching staff is better but you call it way you see it.

Ellsbury would provide a spark for a team after getting swept needs one in the worst way.

Still a month to go and if this series happened at Fenway I would be very mad.

I think what’s missing is a good fight, like between Tek and F-Rod. A spark. Some anger. They need to start playing with some passion… That’ll bring us to the top.

The game is a game of averages. Those guys that carried the team early on are and have started to cool off. Those who have performed miserably and whose bad performances were masked earlier in the year are now more exposed and need to produce. The sox need to find legitimate run producer and fast.

Smckinny — you are right! Was thinking the very same thing!

Ive been a Sox fan for 50 years… this late season process is very familiar… Was a nice season, but the Yankees scare the Bosox to death. Supposedly, we have the best pitching in the majors.. any believers??

This Redsox team is by far the worst “Best record in the league” team I can ever remember. The lineup is very likely on any day against any pitcher against any team to just not show up. Not saying much for the league right now that we are the “best”.

“I know this is out of topic, but r u guys disappointed by Dice K?…Obviously the record doesn’t matter because Dice hasn’t gotten much run support”

-I don’t know what Matsuzaka did to the boys but they never get behind him. And there’s been a couple games that Beckett (last night) had no support. I don’t know what they did to **** the O off but it don’t show up a lot of times. All in all, a dissapointing series. Time to shake it off and get on with it. The Sox own the pennant. I just want them to keep the Yanks out of the postseason.

I meant division, not pennant.

Smckinny – it is ridiculous to say that the bellpen was bad because it was rusty, and that that is ‘fact’. How do you know that for sure? How do you know it wasn’t because they weren’t good enough toay for any amount of other reasons (such as coming up against the league’s best offense)? Okajima has thrown a couple of times since he last pitched in a game so it’s not like he hasn’t touched a ball over the last few days. And in fact, two of the three runs were not even the bullpen’s fault but Varitek’s.

The team is resting on it’s early season success laurels. The pitching has been solid all year but they need run producers. There are at least 4 guys in the current lineup that make you cringe when they come up with runners on and 2 outs. Best record in the league means **** when you’re going into the last month and not playing consistent winning baseball.

I saw give the kid Chris Carter a try and replace Coocoo Crisp with Ellsbury.MAYBE Carter MIGHT be a spark.You never know what he can do.Look at Shelly Duncan for the Yankees.

And I want to apologise to Red Sox Nation for my very pessimitic attitude during this series.If anything,I think we learned something from all this.First off,that JD Drew would do better as a hotdog vendor.Secondly,maybe its time to let some kids come up and give it a shot,perhaps bring new energy to our line up.What do you guys think?

This comment is for Brendan.Graham. I wouldn’t normally suggest going to rookies especially at this stage in the season but when you look at the production of the guys that are playing everyday sometimes you have no choice. Crisp has had over 800 at bats to prove himself and didn’t. Lugo and Drew has both been given 5 months to produce and haven’t. I just think it is time to go into a new direction.

Lugo is stalling around .240 again. Yes, we know he worked hard to get it there from his .190 but he is nevertheless hitting .240. I am not sure how many infield hits he has but without that speed he is probably around .215. WE NEED RUN PRODUCERS.

brendan. i didn’t say the bullpen was bad today for that reason. i said when they don’t get regular work during games you run the risk of them gettin rusty. that’s all. big diff between throwin on the side and pitching in a game. and i know tek caused those runs. like i said earlier don’t just hate on JD. there is plenty to go around with this team right now. tek is another one. he’s nowhere near the overall player he was 2-3 yrs ago. i suppose it’s just age catching up to him. happens to most catchers in their mid-30’s. well except for posada apparently. bottom line this series while not really all that critical short term is a microcosim of this teams playoff potential IMO. right now i don’t think they are good enough offensively to beat any of the potential opp’s. ana, NY, Det. maybe cleveland but that’s about it. i’m pretty sure seattle will fade away. they pitched close to as well as they could ever expect to and got swept because they cannot consistently hit and they don’t have the HR threats to make up runs with a walk or two and one hit.

chman. at this point they got nothing to lose. although i’m still convinced there are likely some guys who cleared waivers that could help. theo won’t go that route though. it’s intersting. the dodgers, padres, and phillies have been somewhat active with regard to that ( waiver acquisitions ) and have actually managed to help their team and gain ground in their div.’s you’d think he ( theo ) might take a hint to help this team clinch theirs.

Varitek does look hopeless out there at the plate. We certainly know he is not here for his offense but it would be nice if he was a better hitter. Doesn’t help when you see Posada hitting .333

tek’s never been a great hitter but he used to show a lot more power and be able to get some key hits regularly. anymore though i cringe when comes up with RISP. not as much as with JD but close.

Varitek is not much of a factor at the plate. Imagine what he’ll look like in 2 years? He is there leader and does a great job handling the pitching staff. If he can provide some pop here and there, that is gravy to me.

Where was Mike Lowell in this series? Dustin Pedroia was where? Youklis did hit a homer in the game late last night but not much from him. David Ortiz breaking up the no hitter last night but where was he?

This team has been shooting themselves in the foot all year long, no hits when guys are on base. That is the problem.

One positive is Schilling pitched well and that is nothing but a good thing.

Smckinny I definitely understand what your saying.I heard Millar could have been picked up.Makes me ponder with ideas… but yeah we need to try something new.Bring up some of the kids and see if we can give our line up a new life.Put JD to sell hotdogs or park cars or something.

I was pleased to see Schill pitch well against the yanks.Definitely a big plus for us if we do meet them in the play offs.He made just two mistakes.He gave us a good chance to win that game.I guess the injury earlier in the year contributed to the disasterous games he had against the yankees as well as him adjusting a little.

the old adage that great pitching beats great hitting is true BUT in 162 games you might get 20 – 25 GREAT pitching perf’s. very good pitching is still going to give up some runs to great hitters. we saw that the last 3 days. unfortunately in a 5-7 playoff series you might get 1 “great” effort 2 if your really lucky. so if you can’t consistently score some runs you got no chance. by that i mean more than 3.

Yeah,pitching wise,we are set.We just need some bats.

Three days ago after blistering the White Sox for four straight, all was well in Red Sox nation. I remember seeing a post asking “Where are the naysayers now?” Well, whoever asked that question, here they are.

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and understand the Sox just played the schedule from **** during the last part of July and the month of August. On July 23rd, the Sox were 7 games ahead of the Yankees. Since then they have played 10 of 36 games at home and are 26-20. They are winding up a 10 game road trip on which they went 6-4 and picked up a game. Meanwhile, the Yankees, with a much more favorable schedule, are only two games better during the same period. I think if the Sox are dragging butt a little, it’s certainly understandable.

Now they go home for 12 of the next 15, hit the road for a week, and finish up against Oakland and Minn. They are a much better hitting team at home and will expand their roster to get the services of players like Ellsbury and others.

With the grind that they’ve had, I think they’ve done pretty well. Granted, they could put the Yankees away and they didn’t hit very well in the Bronx. You gotta give the Yankees credit. They got great pitching. However, a five game lead with 28 to go, with their remaining schedule…… I like where they are.

Chill out nation, it’ll be OK

bosox. like we talked about when manny went out. with those guys behind them hitting so poorly no way ortiz and lowell are going to get much to look at. lowell did at least get a hit in every game though. i figured schill would step up today. too bad his effort got wasted.

If the Red Sox bats continue to be up and down this team will be an early exit in the playoffs.

I never thought the Sox would get swept in this series. I figured they would win at least 1 game. Very disappointed in this team’s approach to the series. Yankees were very aggressive while the Sox showed nothing. Boston still has a 5 game lead for the final month. They still have more than enough time to gel and get Mo back on there side. They’re a verteran team and to me that means they will not panic.

Yeah I woke up with a feeling Schill would be Schill.I dreamed the bloody sock incident last night too…

Great post gsm, couldn’t agree more.

gsm. you certainly make valid points and if you asked in april would i be happy with a 5 game lead come 9/1 i’d have said **** yeah. but this team has had numerous chances to put this thing away and have been totally unable to do it. that’s where the “naysaying” comes from. and you better believe knowing every time they hit that hill if they give up 3-4 runs there’s a pretty good chance for a loss is starting to wear on this staff. they pitched really well i thought the last 3 but you can see they are really starting to try and be too fine due to the lack of run support. i think everybody knew the white sox series ( while very imp ) was no indication of where this team is offensively. most of the damage was against their bullpen which is second only to TB in it’s futility.

The umpires on the Youkilis play made the correct call. Like I said in an earlier post, Youk’s baseline had nothing to do with a straight line between second and third base. His base path was established by where he was when A-Rod began his attempt to tag him. At that point, his base path was a straight line from that point to third base. He can go three feet to either side of that line to avoid the tag. I would guess he was probably eight feet outside that line when he went to the infield grass. Not only was he out, but he was very, very out.

For those of you who still think the base path is a straight line between the bases, here is the rule right from the rule book.


Any runner is out when —

(a) (1) He runs more than three feet away from his baseline to avoid being tagged unless his action is to avoid interference with a fielder fielding a batted ball. A runner’s baseline is established when the tag attempt occurs and is a straight line from the runner to the base he is attempting to reach safely; or (2) after touching first base, he leaves the baseline, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base;

It’s not true that most of the damage was done against their bullpen only. They did very well against the White Sox starters.

Vazquez – 6.0 IP – 7 ER (he has a 3.89 ERA after this start = good starter)

Buehrle – 6.0 IP – 4 ER (3.50 ERA)

Garland – 7.0 IP – 6 ER

Danks – 3.1 IP – 5 ER

smckinny, to a certain extent you are right. The Sox have had lots of chances to put this thing away. Taking two of three in this series would have done the trick. They’d be nine games up instead of five. That being said, with the way the Sox have been playing, an equally valid point from a Yankee persepctive is that they have had opportunities to be closer than they are. They have lost games they shouldn’t have lost. For all the fuss made about the Sox offense, the same could be said about the Yankees’ pitching. They have played a bunch of games where they have scored six or more runs and lost……….. and they have been shut out three times in the past month. I guess that’s why they play the games. You just never know from one night to the next what’s going to happen.

Boy, a couple of losses to the Yankees and the whole of Red Sox Nation is panicking. For all of this ragging on the Sox offense, even after this poor production series, they are 6th in the majors in team batting average, and 4th in the majors in run production. I agree their home run production is down significantly, but their slugging percentage is 8th best in the majors. I too can remember the excruciating times this season that they have left runners on base in scoring position, but please.

Their team ERA is second best in the majors, second to the Padres, whose team batting average is 30 points lower than the Sox. Right now, the Blue Jays have the third best team ERA in the majors, and their team batting average is 20 points lower than the Sox. (And I suspect some of you nervous nellies would have the Sox acquiring the likes of Vernon Wells, Lyle Overbay, Troy Glaus and Alex Rios if they were available.)

The only teams that start a boatload of rookies at this point of the year are those teams out of the hunt. And there is a reason for it: they are rookies!!!

I seem to remember back to May when a bunch of the same writers who are now throwing Alex Cora under the bus were ready to replace Dustin P with Alex. Players get hot and cold. CoCo has raised his average about 40 points over the last several months, and has gotten key hits. Lugo has raised his average 40 points, and also has delivered some key hits.

I like Kevin Millar as much as the next guy who rooted for them in 2004, but he is another banjo hitter, who if I remember correctly, is hitting the same .260 that Drew is hitting, perhaps a few more home runs, but he’s getting about as many hits as Drew is.

I don’t think you can look back on the Wily Mo deal. It was what it was. As fearsome as Wily Mo appeared, he struggled to hit the curve ball enough to get his average any higher than .200. Despite having just said what I did, the trade I would love to undo is the Gagne trade. I hated giving up Kasson Gabbard, whose had a bunch of quality starts for Texas since going there. If and/or when we lose Schill next year, we may well come to regret giving him up.

Face it, the team that we have, one of the very best in baseball, is the team that will battle in this year’s play-offs. I am as concerned as the next guy about how flat they were in New York, particularly after the way they cuffed the White Sox around. But it is Tito’s job to get them up for the remainder of the season, and he knows how to do his job. If they can’t raise their collective performances for the play-offs, they won’t continue to have the Best Record in Baseball.

Nuff Said.

brendan. you’re funny man. i think if i said the sky was blue you’d disagree. that’s cool though. for the record they scored 24 against the pen 22 against the starters. i’m not real good at math but i think that would qualify as most. i didn’t say all, MOST.

148 million doesn’t as much as it used to, just look at what the Redsox have to show for it: **** RF, overrated 0 for 12 CF, weakling .230 hitting SS, mediocre 1B & Catcher. Not to mention players like Cora, Hinske, and Keitly who aren’t good enough to make many AAA ballclubs. But hey at least we’ve got Gagne.. Yeah!!

gsm and dbenjamin. very valid points again. well except for that “tito knows how to do his job part”. just a joke and my opinion but that’s irrelevent. you hit the nail on the head though if they play like this for the rem of the season it’ll be a very short run. if they ever start consistently hitting the ball they could go far. i still think they have too little off/power to do much in a 7 games series but a man can dream i suppose.

Does anyone know what the Red Sox are hitting with runners in scoring position? Runners on base? How about when the bases are empty? I am sure there is someone out there that could help me there. Where they rank and what the averages are. Thank you if anyone can, I would appreciate it very much.

try or you could probably google baseball stats and find that stuff somewhere. my guess is their avg with bases empty is pretty high and with RISP is pretty low. i know their OBP is high. whoo-hoo!!

I was thinking just like you smckinny. I would love to find out what there avg. is with men in scoring pos. with 2 outs. I would assume very low.

Thanks for letting me know the info. I will look it up and if I find it I will share it.

OBP is only good if those guys score, what good is it if they are standing there at the end of the inning.

Oritz would go into N.Y. and terrorize Yankee pitching, certainly not this time.

Is there anyone out there that thinks Chamberlain didn’t throw at Youklis?

theo has turned this franchise into the oaland a’s with more $$ ( moneyball 101 ). get used to it. he/they will always have good pitching and high OBP guys going fwd. and just like oak, minn, san diego, LAA, and anybody else who follows that theory to the letter he/they will usually fail at the ultimate goal ( WS ). always be competitive and usually make the playoffs but focusing all your efforts on pitching and defense is a long run strategy not effective for short term series. i.e. the playoffs. you have to have a balance of good pitching, OBP guys and power/run producing guys. they’re close. if they had 1 more guy they would be hard to stop IMO. unfortunately theo thought JD was that guy when it was obvious to everyone else he wasn’t/isn’t. had they made the deal for texiera to protect manny and ortiz and provide a lil more power this team would be as close to a lock as you can get. he probably did thow at him but it was just retliation for a-rod gettin hit. they couldn’t afford for clemens to get tossed again. i’m not sayin they’re done at all but i just don’t see them making much of a run in the playoffs. they just don’t have enough power on offense.


Yes. There was absolutely no reason for Chamberlain to throw at Youk, much less at his head. I think he tried to go inside and let two pitches in a row get away from him. Personally, I think the ump should have warned him, but I don’t think tossing him was that far out of line. (No pun intended since it was Youk at the plate.)

I think Chamberlain tossed at Youk. Chamberlain is a control pitcher , one miss throw maybe but 2 , no way . You have to remember A-Rod got hit with a pitch in an earlier game and Clemens is mentor to Chamberlain and Hughes . Clemens retaliates but Yanks can’t afford to lose him again and since Chamberlain is on a “strict schedule” why not let him toss at a Boston player . Since there was already a confrontation over the base running , Youk became the target

“To me, that was strictly the safest thing to do, instead of the thing that made sense,” Torre said of the ejection. “There certainly wasn’t a message. You’re certainly not going to send a 21-year-old kid out there with limited experience to send a message. That’s absolutely ridiculous
This is amusing because Torre accused the Jay’s pitcher Jesse Litsch ( a 22 yr old rookie) of intentionally throwing a pitch at A-Rod, in the game the night before the one Towers plunked him in. Clemens retaliated by hitting Rios. He could very well have planted the seed to hit Youk , he is the mentor.

How about this….stop talking about Chamberlain and realize the bigger picture. No hitting!!!! Manny out 7-10days means they do not have to throw to Ortiz and this could be the issue that loses the division. Francona knows it.

PS – Youk is a jerk!

All these conversations are all well and good in all but am I the only one out there who notices that we have three players in our starting lineup that can’t hit the ball out of the infield?? I have seen enough of what Crisp, Drew and Lugo can’t do these last six months. The Yankees exploited the Redsox’s main weakness and that’s offensive. Whats the difference between rookie Brandan Moss going 0 for 4 as opposed to J.D. Drew.. or even Elsbury over Crisp. Crisp by the way was a spectacular 0 for 12 in the series so he showing some real improvement. Crisp has over 800 at bats in over 2 years of service with the Redsox and he has only proven to be nothing more than an over hyped .260 singles hitter with above speed. Lugo’s average has come up 40 points but when you consider he started at .190 in May thats really not all that impressive. You will never in your lifetime see the Yankees playing players like Crisp, Lugo or Drew in their starting lineup. Heck even Damon is having trouble cracking into the Yankee lineup these days.

Indigo — While you’re thinking about your conspiracy theories about Rocket and Joba, also add in that the mentor probably told the mentee that getting suspended for 5 days in a playoff chase didn’t work out so well last time. Doubt Rocket would be advising Joba to throw at someone’s head and risk punishment from MLB.

Face it – the Sox were down 5-0 in the top of the 9th. No real reason to throw at Youk. The ump should have issued a warning after the 1st one, but I understand why Joba was tossed.

No conspiracy theory. I know Joba ( then Justin ) from Neb and trust me , he would toss at someone. Chamberlain wouldn’t get a 5 game suspension because the teams were not warned . I agree the sox got outplayed , doesn’t mean Joba didn’t toss intentionally . I was only answering Brian’s question

Hardball Times has some excellent stats summaries. The Red sox are hitting .284 with RISP. The are behind Detroit .312, Yankees .291, KC .287, and Seattle .285.

Interestingly, the Sox lead the league in run differential, the difference between the runs scored and runs allowed. They are +181. The Yankesss are +141 and the Angels +85. Everyone else is below 70. To me, that is a pretty significant stat.

Only Atlanta in the NL has a better BA with RISP at .293. Nobody comes close in the National League to the Sox run differential stats.

Folks, we have been spoiled rotten by the heroics of Papi and Manny in the past. We have come to expect them to do great things all the time and this year it just hasn’t been that way, at least not as much. Statistically, our best clutch hitters are Youk and Lowell. Others have stepped up to take the slack to help out Manny and Papi. The Sox have the best record in baseball and it’s been a team effort.

Hey, what’s happened here has happened across baseball. Home runs and offensive stats are down around both leagues. I like the Sox chances.

Sure the Red Sox just stopped hitting, etc.

But everybody in RSN, I present something to you all to keep in mind:

Yes it was quite the fluke, but who won the WS last year? The St. Louis Cardinals. And they won how many games? 83?

We’ll be fine as long as we don’t collapse and shoot ourselves in the foot and then compound that with falling over again.

We’ll be fine. gsm52 puts it all into some nice perspective.

And if I’m not being pessimistic about our chances, then nobody else should worry. If you knew me well, you’d agree😀

I agree with gsm52. Overall, we should be happy with where the Sox are right now.

The main change I would push for is to sit JD down and let Kielty/Moss play. Let them get the experience for October.

Everyone in the line-up has had their ups/downs at the plate during the season (as expected in baseball). But at least they contributed in other ways (Coco – defense, Lugo – speed). JD hasn’t done anything special that I can remember all season. Every time he gets another chance to prove himself – he fails, and hurts the team. I would think that even his teammates must be frustrated with him by now.

Give the new guys a chance to build some confidence for the next month. And hopefully JD can bounce back next year…

I haven’t read any of the posts yet, so I hope that I don’t repeat too much of whats already been said.
I guess we just used all our “bat power” in Chi town” this past weekend. But 6 runs in 3 games (I think)?? That’s really weak. That kid Chamberlain is their answer to Papelbon. Damned GOOD answer,too. But when he chose to throw at Youks head (not just once, but twice)he’s lucky he didn’t have his head taken off by Youk. Pretty hard to be wild twice in the exact same spot, especially with the control he was exhibiting this week.

coach, what’s the deal with Youk being a jerk?, what’s up with that?

We are still in the lead, in better shape than we were before we went into Chicago.

As far as Sox fans go, we have more to be optimistic about than so many years of Sox fans in the past.

We gome home v The O’s. Let’s get back to business, and continue the winning that we left in Chicago!!

Let’s Go Sox!!!!!

Oh, PS, note to Terry and the front office:

I’m surprised a bigger deal wasn’t made about Chamberlain’s pitches. In 11 innings he has struck out 17 and walked just 4. I have seen him pitch most of the times he has come in and never seen him miss badly. And then he does it two balls in a row? It makes sense in the context of the game in that it was not close any more so putting someone on would not have any reprecussions on the result.

For some reason the Yankees enjoy throwing at Youklis’ head. I don’t have a problem when someone lines up someone at the ribs but I think who ever throws at the head should be suspended for a minimum of 5 games. To me Bud Selig has to get tough on that. Throwing at someone’s head to me has no place in the game. I would assume most of you would agree, if you don’t perhaps you should have your head examined.

Even ‘control’ pitchers lose control of their pitches now and again. If the Yankees wanted to send a message and retaliate for the A-Rod plunking, they would have done so much earlier in the game. I don’t care how much was riding on the outcome of the game in terms of the division or the Wild Card, they never wait until there’s one out in the ninth inning to retaliate. They had plenty of opportunities to plunk Varitek or Hinske or Cora with nobody on and a weak hitter coming up behind them.

And I completely disagree that the Youkilis baserunning incident had anything to do with it. The controversy was with the umps’ call reversal, not with anything that A-Rod did, so there’s nothing to retaliate for there.

Add to that the unwritten rule that if you’re throwing at someone intentionally you DON’T throw at their head. You hit them in the back or the butt, but not their head.

Robert – surely it makes more sense to throw in the 9th? Up until that point it was a two run game and you don’t want anybody getting a free pass to get on base. It was only in the 9th, with the lead stretched to 5 runs, that they could have afforded to do something like that.

I think my patience with J.D. Drew is wearing thin…

I’ve been the first to defend him/give him a chance.

But boy is that fading fast…

I watched the replays several times and I don’t believe Chamberlain was throwing at Youk’s head. First, if he was, he’s got horrible aim. Second, robnbetsy said it best, pitchers don’t throw intentionally at heads.

Having pitched some minor league ball, I can tell you that I have intentionally thrown at hitters as a retaliatory measure. My intent was to always throw at the hitter’s rear end where it would sting, but not do much damage. I can also tell you that I have unintentionally hit a batter in the head. In this case I wasn’t trying to throw at him. He went down and it was the scariest couple of minutes of my life. Believe me, pitchers know they are holding a lethal weapon and any pitcher who throws at a batter’s head should be banned from the game. For the record, I have also been hit in the head. Fortunately, it was a curve ball that just didn’t break. In my case, no brain, no pain.


Yes, sitting in our easy chairs watching the game, waiting until you have a bigger lead before you hit a batter would seem to make more sense. But think back to all the games you’ve seen where a hit batter was generally acknowledged to be retaliation for an incident in a previous game. It almost always happens in the early innings. Rarely, if ever, does in come that late in the game.

But to be honest with you, retaliatory plunkings make absolutely no sense to me to begin with. What have you proved? Nothing. You’ve given the other team a free base runner, nothing more. They knew it was coming, and whatever it was that they did to ‘deserve’ being hit, they’ll probably do it again if similar circumstances arise. I guess since they’re playing a kid’s game, they feel they have to act like children sometimes. I think intentional plunkings are just about the stupidest part of baseball.

I wonder if J.D. Drew is safe to walk the streets!!Wow,just a game .INHALE _EXHALE!!!!

Retaliation in baseball can only be achieved through throwing at the other team because, aside from that, there is very little physical contact. The only other way I can think of is sliding hard into 2nd base. I personally don’t mind it as long as you don’t throw for anything above the shoulders.

All I know is Chamberlain’s actions, intentional or not, set up some more high drama for the next Sox-Yanks series in Boston. It will be interesting to see how he responds when he has an entire stadium booing him.

Was anybody watching yesterday’s game on NESN? Josh Beckett was absolutely heated at Jobah after he threw the 2nd pitch, and for some reason the camera was zoomed in directly on his face as he screamed “Get the f*ck out of here you f*cking c*nt” at least 3 times. I was laughing so hard because NESN, for whatever reason, didn’t take the camera off of him while it was so easy to read his lips. If we have him lined up to pitch in that series, I’m sure he will want to retaliate.

Oh yeah, and the Orioles have droped 9 in a row and are pitching some no-name in place of Bedard. We need a win tonight to start this series off on the right note.

Beckett is old school and I like that about him. If Beckett does face the Yankees in that series he should line up someone for sure. Hit them in there buttocks or ribs, don’t go at there head. I have ZERO respect for a pitcher when they go to there head. Remember when Pedro faced the Yankees back in 2003 eary July. The first 2 hitters Soriano and Jeter he hit and threw at there hands. I don’t have a problem with that at all. If he had thrown at there head, I would have been very disappointed in his actions. He threw at them because Clemens hit Millar 2 days before hit Millar on his hands.

I don’t have a doubt in my mind that Chamberlain threw at Youklis and I can’t believe that some of you don’t think so. The kid isn’t exactly like Nolan Ryan or Randy Johnson. He does have control with his pitches, if he was someone who has struggled with his control I would say he didn’t throw at him. Apparently for some reason Youklis is the target and who knows why. We don’t know what is said during the game and things along that nature. It will be great to see them play each other in 2 weeks. Sox will still be in first place and I am confident of that, by how many games I don’t know. The Red Sox better wake up, they’re lucky Bedard will not pitch this series, so they might actually sweep the Orioles.

I certainly wouldn’t disagree that hitting a batter is pretty much the only way a team can retaliate. My point is that retaliation is pretty childish. The worst is when a guy hits a home run off a pitcher, and the pitcher obviously hits him intentionally the next time he comes up to bat. Absolutely pathetic. You either made a mistake and left a ball over the plate, the batter guessed right about what pitch you were going to throw, or he just flat out beat your best stuff. In all three cases, the batter simply was the better man in a one-on-one contest. Hitting him the next time you face him is like spitting on someone because they beat you in checkers.

In this particular case though, if you believe it was intentional, what was the cause of the retaliation? A-Rod’s plunking? Wasn’t that retaliation for something else? How long does it go on? It’s ridiculously stupid and ugly in my mind and only detracts from the enjoyment of watching world-class athletes compete at a game the rest of us can only dream of playing that well.

I can’t stand it when I hear players say that pitcher “have” to throw at hitters sometimes to “protect” their teammates. How have they protected them? If anything, they’ve set their teammates up to possibly get hit the next time they face that team again.


Nice comment,betsy sounds like some sanity in red sox nation.

Rob (and not Betsy), usually these things come to a head once both teams have retaliated accordingly, the umpires warn both benches, the inside of the plate is completely taken away from pitchers, and the game moves on without any trouble. While I agree with you on the pitcher who plunks a guy who hit a homerun, I still think you have to protect your teammates. Al Leiter, who does a lot of color commentary on YES, always talks about the importance of protecting your guys and how the team can be divided between pitchers and position players if the latter believes that their pitchers are not protecting them.

I went to the game in the Bronx on Wednesday night and the general consensus was that Youkilis most epitomizes the Red Sox with his look, style of play, etc. I don’t know if that was why Chamberlain “threw at him” (again nobody is sure of intention here), but usually the way it works is the Red Sox would retaliate by hitting either the Yankees 1B or the person on their team who bats in the same slot as Youkilis.

Luckily for New York, Youk switches spots in the order too much to keep track of, therefore I think Andy Philips is most likely to get one in between the numbers next series.

I wonder how JD Drew would react if he gets plunked by Yankees pitching? Maybe he would finally snap from being so indifferent all the time and go on a killing spree.

I just read Anthony DiComo’s article about the Chamberlain-Youkilis incident and it really burns me. Two things in particular bother me:

First, he cites the baserunning incident as a possible cause. There was no confrontation between the Sox and the Yankees in that situation, only the Sox and the umps. No pitcher is going to throw at someone for something as simple as that.

Second, DiComo says that Chamberlain’s second pitch sent Youkilis “diving to the ground,” which is just plain untrue. On both pitches, Youkilis ducked and stood right back up.

I guess my point is that this incident wouldn’t be getting half as much attention if the media weren’t making more of it than it deserves, and exaggeration like DiComo’s only makes it worse. Then again, I guess I’m just as much to blame, since this is my fourth post on the subject.

Check that, my last post was my fifth, and this is my sixth. Mea culpa.

Zachary, your point is well taken, but only from the stand point that intentional plunkings are accepted by players as a part of baseball, and that pitchers can almost be pressured into doing it for fear that their teammates will think they don’t have their back. It’s so ingrained in the game now that I doubt it will go away any time soon, if ever at all. The players feel that they need to do it, and nothing any of the fans say is going to change that.

But do you see my point about the futility of it? If I understand the theory correctly, you retaliate so that the other team knows you’re not going to tolerate whatever it is you’re retaliating for. Well, they knew they’d get thrown at for doing whatever it was, but they did it anyway. So what good did it do? If you look at it logically, it makes no sense.

This issue has been a pet peeve of mine for a while, I and rarely hear many folks agreeing with me, so I guess I’m in the minority. That’s OK too, but I think I’ll stop posting about it, because I’m probably annoying more people than I’m convincing of the validity of my arguments.

Fortunately, there’s a lot to love about the game of baseball, and the occasional hit batter isn’t going to disgust me to the point of not watching games any more.

well i guess it’ll be more interesting than anybody hoped for through sept. bottom line is who is better at beating bad teams? if you inc toronto ( which is close ) the yank’s have 13 games aginst teams with winning records the sox 10. hopefully it’s finished by the last 6 though. boston closes with 6 against oak and minn while the yank’s close with 6 at TB and balt. boston is at home but oak and minn are definitely better/more dangerous teams than balt and TB.

First, I still don’t believe Joba was throwing at Youk’s head. If he wanted to hit him, he would have, it’s that simple.

Pitchers need to own the inside part of the plate. Batters need to know that so they don’t go diving over the plate to hit much like both Jeter and Lowell do. To gain control of the inside, they throw inside to back hitters away. I would say 99 percent batters hit by a pitch are either an accident, or the batter’s fault. It’s the hitter’s fault because he’s moving toward the plate and then can’t get out of the way of an inside pitch. Jeter gets hit all the time just for that reason, not because anyone is throwing at him. He knows that, and he’s willing to keep doing it. You only have to miss by three or four inches to plunk someone pretty well.

The last thing a position player wants to see is his pitcher plunk someone. Why? Because that puts him in jeopardy for a retaliatory strike if the opposing pitcher thinks it was intentional.

When I played, pitchers batted. If I hit someone and the other team thought it was intentional, believe me, the last thing I wanted to do was go in and bat.

Pitchers have a repuation for being willing to throw inside. Not many have a reputation for intentionally hitting someone. Rob is right. In the scheme of things, it’s not very smart baseball if you’re intentionally putting a runner on base.

Alot of pitchers throw inside to open up the plate. Make sure they have the outside part of the plate. Chamberlain is a guy that has very good control, so having him sail 2 in a row is very suspicious to me.

When you throw at someone your sticking up for your team-mates and that to me speaks volumes of that particular pitcher. If a pitcher sticks up for his team-mate that goes a long way in that clubhouse. One of things that got Papelbon alot of repsect was an incident in Fort Lauderdale against the Orioles in a Grapefruit League game. Youklis got hit by I believe Cabrera and who did Papelbon throw at, Sammy Sosa. Johnny Damon said after that game, Papelbon should be on this team when we break camp. Of course Papelbon got called up that summer of 2005. That showed alot of what Papelbon is made of. That is one incident that I can come up with and there are many more out there.

Chamberlain received a 2 game suspension along with a fine, so obviously MLB felt it was more than just trying to get Youk to back off the plate

So, no Wakefield tonight. Perfect.

If Tavarez can pitch half as well as he has in his past two spot starts, the Sox should be fine.

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