Sunday night Special — Roger vs. Schill

Here we go. Bring it on. This is why we love Red Sox-Yankees and love the game of baseball — for matchups like this.

Roger Clemens and Curt Schilling. When you think of true power pitchers with perfect fundamentals and fluid deliveries, you think of these two guys. Clemens has obviously been able to do it for a lot longer. Schilling was a relative late bloomer. And of course we all know the story of how Clemens basically told Schilling prior to the 1992 season that he was wasting his talent and it was after that that Curt became one of the elite pitchers in baseball.

Here we are, and both these guys can still bring it, though not at the levels they’ve done it in the past. The great thing about tonight is that you know the 41-year-old Schilling and the 45-year-old Clemens are both going to have something extra in the tank for this one. I’d say that, in the first inning especially, both guys are going to have an extra mile per hour or two on their heater.

What will the reaction for Clemens be? I’m guessing almost all boos. Remember, the last time he pitched a regular season game here in September of 2003, Clemens was given a hero’s applause. In a classy gesture, Red Sox fans gave him a nice good-bye after years of booing him. Of course, they thought he was retiring at the time. There wasn’t a whole lot of love in the air when Clemens pitched against Pedro in Game 3 of that 2003 ALCS. We all remember it. Pedro hits Karim. Clemens throws an innocent fastball that Manny over-reacts to. Pedro side swipes Zimmer and has no choice but to push him to the ground. Clemens was cool amid it all, pitching a great game and winning and saying after the game, "Whatever game they want to play, we’ll play."

Now he’s back at Fenway again after teasing the Red Sox in two consecutive years that just maybe he would return to Boston for the true twilight of his career. But he chose Houston in ’06, even when the Red Sox offered similar money. This time around, the Yankees offered far more than either Houston or Boston, and Clemens went back to the Bronx and shunned the Sox once again.

I’m thinking these fans — who were, by the way, ready to welcome him back — won’t let that be forgotten tonight.

Schilling? This is his time of year. He always comes through in big games and I wouldn’t expect tonight to be any different. And yes, he’s pitching for a new contract and a gem tonight wouldn’t hurt that quest.

Let’s get this game going. The weather is perfect. Great night for a prime time matchup. Bring it on!

Lineups:

Red Sox

Ellsbury CF
Pedroia 2B
Ortiz DH
Lowell 3B
Drew RF
Varitek C
Hinske 1B
Crisp CF
Lugo SS
Schilling SP

Yankees

Damon LF
Jeter SS
Abreu RF
A-Rod 3B
Posada DH
Cano 2B
Cabrera CF
Mientkiewicz 1B
Molina C

Clemens SP

later,

Ian.

149 Comments

I took the weekend off to go to Disney but managed to watch the Friday night fisasco and caught glimpses of Saturday’s game. The Sox showed me a lot of character coming back the way they did Saturday. After Friday night it would have been easy for them to roll over. Tonight’s game is a good one to win to put the pressure on the Yankees. With the Tigers winning this afternoon, if the Yankees lose their lead will be down to 1.5 games for the Wild Card. They’ll have to play hard all the way out which will put strain on an already beat up pitching staff. Even if they make it to the post season, they won’t make it easily. So, along with home field advantage, the Sox really have something to play for.

As far as how people will react to Clemens …. who cares? He’s been a great pitcher for a long time, but he should have stayed home this year and what he did for the Sox happened a long time ago. It’s been too long, I hope he goes to the Hall as a Yankee.

Only negative about tonight’s game is Joe Morgan doing the game. Mr. I state the obvious all the time. He almost makes Joe Magrane sound good. ( gsm I know that is impossible to say that Magrance could sound good ) Morgan for all the years he played and he certainly was one of the greats, he offers no insight at all.

Clemens will be out of this game by the 4th. Sox will pound him. His last start vs Boston, I was not impressed with him at all but somehow he got the win and held the Sox down. Not the case tonight, emotions will be running high with him on the mound. If Lugo, Crisp or Ellsbury gets on they should be running for sure, pretty easy to steal off of Clemens.

I wonder if Posada will be playing tonight after getting steamrolled by Hinske.

Oh by the way….

Pats 31

Chargers 17

I’m going to have to disagree with you Brian. While you are right about Joe Morgan, nobody is worse than Joe Migrane.

However, I will agree with you that the Sox need to get the running game cranked up.

Hinske steamrolled Posada for sure, but it was a clean hit. If you’re going to block the plate, you have to be willing to take that.

How about Ellsbury in the clutch? He’s done a great job although I think there are things he needs to learn about playing outfield at Fenway.

Baltimore is kicking the Jets around. They must be stealing defensive signals or something. Your 31-17 score sounds about right.

Though I am a lifelong, devoted-as-they-come Red Sox and Celtics fan, I share the same die-hard feelings for the Pitsburgh Steelers, so tonight’s Patriots-Chargers clash is of little interest to me. The Steelers look sharp so far, allowing a total of 10 points in two games. My prediction – New England 24, San Diego, 21.

As for tonight, I would like to see the Sox bash Clemens early, get his pitch count up and get him out of there by the fourth or fifth so they can get into that awful Yankees bullpen. As long as Rivera is not in there, I feel confident that the Sox will take it to anyone else in the Yankees pen, even Joba Chamberlain. He is due to give up some runs, after all.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

Did Ian mean ellsbury LF and Coco CF?

Morgan and Magrane certainly rank at the bottom of analyst. There the Joe Namath of baseball broadcasters. Whenever Namath did a Pats game I would cringe. He does have good taste at least he tried kissing Suzy Kolber.

The Pats are already a very motivated bunch and with all this cameragate or whatever you want to call it. They will hit the field tonight looking to send a message to the San Diego Chargers and the N.F.L. and that message will be heard loud and clear in Foxboro ( Foxborough- however they’re spelling it now ) I hope the Red Sox have a message to send as well and something tells me they will. The Tigers are right behind the Yankees. For the first time in quite a while the Yankees don’t have anything wrapped up in the month of September.

Crisp in c.f. and Ellsbury in l.f. there jake.

Posada must have a headache the size of A-Rod and Jeter’s ego. He isn’t in the lineup tonight, I didn’t think he would be. He got his bell rung last night. He stayed in and I have alot of respect for Posada for doing so.

Bosox

You take them out tonight, and I’d bet the Tigers catch them.

Now that would be sweet!!!

Posada is the d.h. of course.

I was impressed that Henske asked Posado whether he was ok or not in his next at bat-that was a class move on Eric’s part.

That would be nice too see if the Yankees miss the playoffs gsumner. Tigers have there pitching back and Sheffield back in the lineup. Only negative if the Tigers got in that is who Boston would face in the 1st rd. That would be a very difficult matchup.

Hinske plays the game hard and the right way. A former football player and a big Green Bay Packer fan, perhaps the Packers will grab him when the Red Sox season is over. I hope that will be sometime in late October.

like i said previously this team has a real knack of making avg pitchers look great. tek, bless his heart is just sad. i’m pullin for him but he is REALLY strugglin ( for the 2nd yr in a row ). woops guess i’d better watch what i say or the i-net morality police might come down on me. i didn’t phrase a-thing too negatively i hope. this def ain’t a MUST win but it sure is a WOULD BE REALLY NICE WIN. as far as the wild card. i don’t see the yankees losing more than 3 ( maybe 4 ) the rest of the year so it’ll be hard for the tigers to catch em. i would enjoy it though if they did.

bosox. i’m gonna be close on my over/under for tek’s LOB this weekend. he had 11 comin n 2 today. no wonder he’s the c-pan. he is just clutch! seriously though i don’t know that i’ve ever seen anybody have SOO many opp’s and fail so consistently over this long of a streach. you’d think the law of avg’s would catch up with him eventually. schill is gettin no help once again.

Bad call by Francona to bunt Coco, setting Lugo up for failure. Why put it all on the line for a .230 hitter? Coco should have tried to pull it… maybe he gets a hit, maybe get the runner over.

Gagne should be pitching to Jeter now. Too bad he has stunk so bad.

Bad GM work, bad managing, bad pitching.

Bosox

I think Shilling should have been replaced at the start of the 8th. He lloked like he was loosing it at the end of the 7th

****-a 3 run homer

Translation… Bad GM (Signing Gagne), Bad Managing (Leaving Schilling in), and Bad Pitching (The Gopher Ball). Really bad stuff. We’re really fortunate the Yanks stunk so bad for most of the season.

Is there a problem with pulling a pitcher BEFORE he gives up a homer. 4-1/2 again for no reason. this shouldn’t of happened like this…

The Eigth inning is no place for an over the hill 40 something… not with that huge bullpen sitting around. Horrendous Managing.

I didn’t think Crisp should have been bunting. They don’t do it all year, why do it then? Friday night when Drew lead off with a single they should have had Varitek bunt. Francona doesn’t seem to know when the bunt should be in play.

I don’t mind seeing Schilling face Jeter. It was a 2-2 count and the 2 previous pitches against Jeter, he had a hard time with. Jeter certainly turned on that one. Lopez to me is like Snyder, uh oh when he comes in. Your reaching when you bring Lopez in. He can’t get lefties out but he is known as a lefty specialist. That to me is not a specialist.

why, why, why? WHY? Torre knew enough to pull Clemens, why leave Shill in? WHY? I love the Sox but I am sick of watching the Yankees play everytime I watch the Red Sox play them.

oh well, at least the whole season isn’t played against the Yankees. There are other teams the Red Sox can actually beat, so that’s good.

Delcarmen blew away A-Rod.

A comeback looks bleak but stranger things have happened. Time for the Sox to get to Chamberlain. Leadoff double by Hinske and he is stranded. If Damon caught that ball back in the 1st inning, the Sox would be getting shutout right now.

Can’t fault Francona for that one. 69 pitches in 7 innings and 8 in the 7th. He’d be crazy he if took him out. Just the wrong pitch to the wrong hitter. This game is far from over, we all know how runs can be scored in bunches at Fenway and Mikey just homered,

Mike Lowell with a monster mash. A shot into the seats.

Nice Lowell. Good to see that the announcers won’t be showing Joba’s IP without a run stat anymore

Ok, let’s break Rivera!!

That looked like the Gagne of old. Made Posada look silly. If he can get it going the last 2 weeks into October, we will have the bullpen we all hoped for at the deadline.

Wrong part of the order coming up, bottom third. Need it to get to Papi and I think he may deliver

Nevermind, 6-7-8 and Ortiz due 7th. They need a BIG inning for him to get a chance

Thats the way Tek has to get on I guess. We’ll take it

Here it is

What a great at bat by Pedroia.

would’ve liked a better ending but it was an entertaining game nonetheless

Red Sox had there chance and Ortiz chased a pitch and couldn’t do anything with it.

The division is on hold. Sox will win the division but they’re making it too interesting.

Yankees again won a meaningful series vs Boston.

Agreed about the pure entertainment value of that baseball game.

I love how hindsight is 20/20 and everybody is a genius on this blog because they “just knew” to take out a strong Schilling, 80 pitches into his outing. To be honest, I knew Jeter was going to break the tie because that’s what he does to the Red Sox, specifically with 2 outs. Anybody remember Game 5 of the 2004 ALCS when he had that bases-clearing triple off of Pedro?

Gagne had his first clean inning of his Red Sox career which is encouraging, plus his stuff looked good. We put a blemish on Jobah’s ERA and showed some resiliency in the end but came up short. Oh well, Toronto tomorrow and if they focus on winning series, they will be raising that AL East banner at Fenway.

Please, someone tell me why Francona doesn’t replace Schilling after 7 innings. The Yankees were hitting him; and he leaves him in just long enough so that we have to make up 3 runs. I like Schilling too, but he hasn’t been in this long all season – at least that i have watched. In fact… how many games have we watched this year that we might have won – if only we had gone to the bullpen when all the fans knew we should?

bosox. yankees won a “meaningful” series against boston. hmmm. how often does that happen? well no manny, no youk, and having to actually deal with tek being IN the lineup. that is a lot overcome. i don’t think i can be acused of monday mornin here so i’ll say it. schill should have never seen the 8th. the 7th was pushing it. jeter defines what a captain is. you have to give it him. tek is a joke. there’s no other way to put it. if they have to face this team in the p-offs. never mind i don’t wanna think about it. if they finish 9/3 maybe 8/4 they’ll get home field. that’s the key IMO.

A-Rod: 1-11, 1 RBI, 5 K in this series.

Maybe the “April” version of Rodriguez is disappearing and “October” Alex is returning to form.

How was Schilling pitching in the 7th inning “pushing it” when he had a 1-2-3 inning against the heart of the Yankee lineup?

Why not let him face the bottom of the order in the 8th, especially when our bullpen was shaky on Friday?

zachary i think most, i know i have, have said shill shouldn’t go past 6 much less 7 unless he has a huge lead. so it’s not hine sight. it’s commonm sense. franCOMA ( that’s for you jeff ) once again does a horrible job of doing his job. whcih is putting his/this team in the best position to win. with all that like i said. no manny, no youk and you lose by 1 run. it’s not tragic. but it is indicative of this team against good teams in pressure sit’s. schill looked good ONCE AGAIN though. that’s a good thing.

Bosox

Tough loss, I think Francona got outmanaged by Torre tonight. Torre pulled the Rocket before he got into trouble and Francona didn’t do the same with Shilling. Both of these guys pitched a whale of a game, but they are over 40 and the tank isn’t as full as it used to be.

I’m afraid you’ve just given the Yanks momentum-to take 2 of 3 in Fenway has got to send them out of there on a high.

The only positive thing I saw was your guys remined Mariano that you still own him-that might make the difference in the playoffs if you play them.

the bullpen was “shaky” on friday. true. what’s been the strength of this team ALL YEAR? i’d say the pen. starting pitching has been good but the pen has been the rock. face it dude. franCOMA made the wrong decision once again. the 7th was pushing it but given his pitch count i won’t criticize him for that BUT they traded for GAGNE to pitch the 8th in games like this.

and i’d say a 3 hr HR is evidence of pushing it. of course i could blame tek for calling the wrong pitch in that sit. isn’t that how it works and why he’s SOOO valuable?

god. jeff it really pi$$es me off that you are a steelers fan. i am to. at least you have good taste even if morally superior opinions. r-berger looks like *** so far though.

chipper jones had the same injury ( by def anyway ) as manny and missed 3-4 games. i realize there are varying degrees of “pulled/strained” obliques but 18 games? i think they’re being a lil too cautious with manny. they NEED that bat.

Wow, what a game. Sure it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth, but dang. You don’t find many games better than that one.

I am one of Francona’s bashers, but tonight was not his fault. Schilling looked phenominal tonight. His 7th inning was dominating. There is no reason to pull him out before the 8th considering he had looked so good in the previous inning and had only thrown about 80 pitches. The only time I was complaining about Tito was after the Giambi double, but then again you have your veteran pitching in a big time situation which is what he thrives for. You have to think to yourself what you would rather see: a pitcher who has had a 3.35 ERA since returning from the DL and lives for the big time spot or Javy Lopez and Delcarmen. Not a slam on them, but I would take experience. It was Schilling’s moment and he came a pitch away from realizing it.

I have a theory about why the Sox haven’t beaten the Yanks since May. We as the Nation take every game like its game 7, the players don’t. The players realize what is a true must-win game. There has not been one true “we have to win this game or else its over” moment this year. In April, the Sox had payback on their mind from last year and were trying to establish themselves in the division. Everytime the Yanks have played the Sox it has been that do or die kind of moment. The Yanks have played the Sox on that do or die level since June. The Sox have played them on the big game, but not season destroying level since June. Its not to say the Sox aren’t motivated, they just haven’t played on that level. When the playoffs begin I believe the Sox will play at the do or die level. Oh and it kinda hurts your chances to beat the Yanks when you don’t have the third head of the three-headed monster known as Papi-Lowell-Manny.

On a lighter note, has anyone noticed that when Jeter gets a hit he runs like a kid in his first ML game, but when he gets out he limps back to the dugout because of his knee injury.

the Red Sox outscored the Yankees in this series 20-13 having 9 of those Yankee runs come in just two innings of play. Both Yankee wins were by 1 run, and for the third straight time they take a series against Boston.

It’s impossible really to say who should’ve won a game since they are never over til they’re over, but I will say that Boston should’ve won Friday night, then, of course, they won Sat, and then they would’ve had a chance to win in the 9th inning Sun, thus giving them a shot to sweep the series at home which is payback for getting swept at Yankee stadium. The Sox played a good series overall, but it seems the Yankees know just how to exploit the Red Sox. Especially Jeter, he’s like a guy who will sleep with someone’s wife if he gets the chance, a total opportunist, and he does it against the Sox all the time. Someone do me a favor and throw at his knee next time. Let Abreu beat us, not Jeter.

Sunday actually was a quality game, with a bad call by Franc, Shill should’ve never had a chance to lose that game. He had a great start, got them through 7 and that should’ve been job well done for Shill. He isn’t expected to get a CG, why push for it? The bullpen rested Sat. use them.

Enough said on that, the Yankees are just a team that gets under my skin and irritates me.

Twelve games left, if they win 8 they win the division.

Ok, my comment is going to sound like monday morning, Oh it is… but here it goes, Schilling pitched a great game its just that he should have never been out for the 8th, yes his pitch count was very low, but come on, as dominant as he had been in the 7th. Top of the 8th, anyone with at least a brain knew it was time to go to the penn. schill had pitched a grat game, it was time go go to the one thing that has been good ALL year for the sox, the penn. Smckinny said it, fanconas job is to give his team the best chance to win, but he DIDNT, period.
Number two, tonycincoocho@gmail.com, i felt your comment regarding players knowing when to play full throttle and when not is out of line, these guys played their rear ends off tonight, its just that their manager did not gave them the best chance to win, with his lack of common sense.

Im sorry to come here and talk trash about the sox(manager) when thigs dont go well, i know i should do it on the good times to, im just not a big blogger and tonight i feel very frustrated with franconas managing.

GO SOX!! i am confident we will win the world series this year.

And keep posting everybody, i read you every day.

How does management see our stupid manager in the future??
Terry makes more mistakes than any manager in MLB.He doesn’t know when to take out a pitcher when he is in trouble.He slowly walks to the mound after the damage has been done. He has to be the worst manager we have had in the last 50 years.

i would imagine they’ll work out an ext for ol tito soon after the season ends. if for no other reason than to make me miserable for the next 2 – 3 yrs.. seriously though if they win the east ( still TBD bosox ) i’m sure that’s what’ll happen. i keep hoping maybe some other team will try and woo him away but i doubt it. fact is he’s the perfect mgr for theo & co.

I turned the set off after Jeter hit a 3 run HR. I knew it was coming, not necessarily a HR, but a hit.
Granted Schilling pitched a great game and had low pitch counts. When you have 2 runners at 7th inning, what’s Francona thinking?

The Sox could have swept the Yanks if the team was better managed.

i really hope they get manny and youk back tonite. they BETTER play well these last 12. i don’t think the yankees win out BUT i could see them going 10/2, 9/3 pretty easy. hope the GOOD wake shows up tonite.

gsm: did you see my post regarding tickets to the Sox game on Friday night at the Trop?? I know that you said you’re going Sat 9/22, maybe you can go to both??I’ve got 2 behind the visitor dugout and will take 90 for them (We paid 110 pls svc chg) I really don’t want them to go to waste!!

Francona donated the game last night, plain and simple. I logged my entry “Gagne should be pitching against Jeter right now” before the homer (check the time stamp). We had a fully rested bullpen of Delcarmen, Gagne, Oki, and Papelbon sitting there watching a 40 year old go through the lineup for the 4th time with 2 men on base in the 8th inning. Just a horrendous job of managing there. Like everyone said, Torre took out Clemens before he got shelled. We left our old man in to GET shelled. Looks like we’re back to doing anything necessary to LOSE games.

I really don’t see how anyone can have confidence in this RedSox team right now. In a “normal” season, 95-97 wins would leave us fighting for our wildcard lives. Just because the Yanks had a horrible start, doesn’t mean we deserve the division. Anything is possible… but it sure looks like bad coaching, bad baserunning, relief lapses, and untimely hitting can trump any advantage in talent that we have over the competition.

Francona said he hopes to have Manny play Wednesday’s game, with Thursday being an off-day so that he can rest up again to play the full series in Tampa Bay. I’m not sure if I’ve heard anything concrete regarding Youk’s injury but as long as he’s available for the playoffs, it’s not as tragic as losing Manny for 20 games.

To put this series into perspective: we lost 2 games by 1 run without one of our biggest bats and best Yankee killers. I’m not sweating the probable ALCS matchup because we can obviously hang.

It was also nice to threaten (7th inning) and eventually score (8th inning) on Jobah. Hopefully that gets in his head next time he has to pitch a close game vs. Boston. And how any of you think Coco should NOT have been bunting against Chamberlain is beyond me. He is, save for Alex Cora, the perfect guy to move the runner over. And Lugo has 70 RBI’s, obviously he has been relatively successful at cashing runners in. Would you rather take a chance with a base hit vs. Jobah or a fly ball?

Somebody needs to notify Theo and Co. that we have about 8 potential managers on here who know how to do the job better than Francona. And they are psychic to boot. All of this unrecognized talent…reminds me of Wily Mo…

At his press conference, Francona always uses the phrase “Cause it makes sense”
Does it make sense to bring in your closer in game one of an important series in the 8th when Gagne was aquired specifically for that purpose?

Does it make sense to keep running Ortiz from 2nd and having him thrown out by 10 ft or more?

Does it make sense to leave pitchers in too long when you have the best bullpen in the league?

Does it make sense to pitch to Jeter (the antithesis of Varitek and Drew-a clutch player)with a base open?

Francona is continually out managed by Torre in important games.

Both the Red Sox and Yankees are 1-4 during the next game after the emotional series with each other. I hope Wakefield shows up tonight. He usually does well in domes. I guess Dice-K. will miss his start on Wed. He’ll be pushed back until Sat. night. The Sox are lining up there rotation for the playoffs. I would rather have Schilling pitch in game 2 and not Dice K. Schilling has pitched very well as of late and Dice K. well we know the story there. I guess the Sox are leaning towards Bucholtz or Tavarez on Wed. night in Toronto.

Drew vs the Yankees this year…. Are you ready folks…

9 for 56….

PATHETIC!!!!

Great to see Francoma start to rock in his rocky 8th inning,What me worry?

zachary,

Are the Red Sox always right? Everything they do, you always stick up for them. Call it the way you see it. The Sox do alot of things right but certainly not all the time. Reading what you write I would think the Red Sox have a perfect season going here.

zachary my friend. WMP’s talent is being recognized. it’s just in DC. he’s hittin about .290 with 8 hr’s. think the sox coulda used any of that w/manny missing 20 games? wait i forgot we have bobby kielty. he’s been a great pick up huh? sad part is you might be right about the mgr candidates. i doubt anyone could be any worst that’s for sure. at least though we in the anti-franCOMA fraternity will ack the rare good decisions he makes and not just assume that he’s the mgr so everything he does is the right thing to do. face it. he screws up entirely too much. nobody gets it right ALL the time but his good decisions are the exception and not the rule. and i/we just think it should be the other way around. it has nothing to do with psychic abilities. it’s common sense and knowing strengths and weakness’s of your team.

bosox. good one. drew’s stat’s against the yankees look like tek’s against the rest of league! there’s actually a good lil blurb about JD on the fox site today under “years biggest disappointments” or something like that.

johnpskier. well said. bosox the lil note on jd also say’s tek’s no.’s for the year w/2 out and RISP are something like .150. now that’s pathetic!

after this weekend i would think tito would be a lil more concerned with the div and home field rather than worrying about the playoff rotation at this point.but that’s just me. it does set em up well for tampa this w-end i suppose and the last 3 against minn so it makes a lot of sense in that regard. hopefully those last 3 won’t mean a whole lot but i got a feelin that’s wishful thinkin.

I agree with johnskier. Why why let Schilling start 8th at all unless he had a no hitter going? Torre smartly pulled Clemens after 6. In a big game, you have to score that run on 2nd with none out in the 7th. I said it earlier the Sox could have swept the Yanks under better management. The only consolation is that Dice Man and Schilling pitched a pretty good game. Gagne is back. The Sox beat their best pitchers Pettitte and Wang. If Yanks took the division, Francoma will be voted the MVP for the Ynaks.
Francoma seems to forget the winning combination of Corey (7), Oki (Gagne if Oki falters), and Papelbon (9).

well one things for sure. with him around you’ll never run short of things to deabte over! btm line is 8/4 and they whould wrap the div and home field. although they shoulda been much better IMO that is the ultimate goal i suppose. just wish i felt a lil more confident about that even. 4/2 against tb/tor is a muct i think.

Schilling was pitching very well and his pitch count was way down. Like I’ve said many times before, I’m not a Francona booster, but I think he made the right decision then. Schilling didn’t give up the home run because he was out of gas, he just made a bad pitch, after making a bunch of good ones. Jeter might be the best clutch hitter in baseball, you can’t fault Francona for that. Who’s to say he wouldn’t have done the same thing against whoever Francona would have brought in?

May be you’re right about Schilling and Francona. Howver, bear in mind 1st base is open knowning Jeter is such a clutch hitter.
Francona should not have Schilling pitched into 8th period.

Dice man will miss next rotation. Tavarez is pitching on Wednesday. Beckett is pitching against Kazmir at TB on Friday.

The Yanks are playing against the lowly Baltimore. Interesting.

johnpskier: Francona “continually outmanaged” by Torre? Did you watch the last 4 games of the ALCS, or did you become a Sox fan after they won the World Series? Or were those games not “important”? Not only that, but you think that Francona made the call to keep Papi running from 2nd? That is the third base coach’s job; his fault, not Francona’s. Furthermore, you should thank your lucky little stars that Francona doesn’t run to his bullpen so quickly. If he did that all season, they would be all worn out by now and you wouldn’t be lucky enough to say we have the best pen in the league. Also, consider the fact that in post season play, often times the teams with the best, most well- rested bullpens are the most succesful.

That being said, Schilling’s pitch count was still well below 90 at the start of the 8th, and he was pitching a superb game. He should not have faced Jeter, but to say Schilling should not have been out there at the beginning of the 8th when his pitch count is still low and pitching well is ludicrous. He looked strong all the way up until Giambi, in fact he threw one of his best pitches of the night to get Cabrera out.

All of you insisting that Schill shouldn’t have started the 8th have some serious Monday morning QB problems.

Who do you think is more qualified to make important baseball decisions? You or Francona? Unless an MLB manager is reading this blog, the answer is Francona.

Bosox, no Francona does not always make the right decisions. I stick up for him when I feel like he is being unfairly crucified. Putting in Okajima for Lopez on Friday night was pretty stupid, I agree with all of you there. But there is ZERO way you can convince me that having Schilling pitch the 8th was a horrible managerial decision. The way you people talk about him, you’d think we were 5th in the division, had a burnt out bullpen, and players were not given days off. And guess what? All of those things are on the contrary.

Want to know how ridiculous you all sound?

Exhibit A: “Terry makes more mistakes than any manager in MLB…He has to be the worst manager we have had in the last 50 years.”

First of all, what is your basis for this? Do you watch any other MLB games besides the occasional Red Sox game? Because from the sound of things, you don’t. Try being a Phillies fan and living with Charlie Manuel’s decisions. Or a Baltimore fan when Sam Perlozzo was managing.

Exhibit B: “Schilling pitched a great game its just that he should have never been out for the 8th, yes his pitch count was very low, but come on, as dominant as he had been in the 7th. Top of the 8th, anyone with at least a brain knew it was time to go to the penn.”

Go back and read your first sentence. Let me put it into a simple equation so I understand better: Low pitch count + no sign of slowing down + dominant previous inning = pull the pitcher. Did you formulate that opinion before or after Schilling gave up the 3-run HR?

Exhibit C: “In fact… how many games have we watched this year that we might have won – if only we had gone to the bullpen when all the fans knew we should?”

Like I said, get in touch with the Sox front office because if you can win more games than the 96-100 games Boston is going to win this year, you must be something special.

I can see starting Schilling in the 8th, but he should have been pulled after the first hit… definitely after the second hit. I think the RedSox management definitely confirmed 0% confidence in Gagne. That would have been the perfect opportunity to use him against Jeter. Getting someone new in there with 7-10 miles more on the fastball would have been the right move. There are easily 5-6 reasons why Schilling should have been gone by then.

Everyone in the universe knows our third base coaches are always among the worst in the league. Can’t blame that directly on Francona.

I have a bone to pick with Zach… we have about a 200 run differential… a $140M payroll… and far and away the best stats when you look at pitching, defense, and hitting combined. We should easily have 103-110 wins by end of season and have everything wrapped up by now. I feel that two of the biggest contributers to our bumbling to the finish line are poor timely hitting and bad management (top to bottom… Epstein, Francona, Hale, Magadan).

rob8569….just for your record, I have been a Red Sox fan for over 50 years…you?
Over the years, when an important decision has had to be made (and during the 04 playoffs, there were many times no decision had to be made), Torre has made better ones than Francona…esp when it comes to his pitchers.

I know the 3rd base coach sends the runners, but Papi was sent in the Yankee series in June and thrown out by 10 ft or more, also in this last series, same thing, and the same thing happened when Beckett lost to Toronto 2 -1 in July ( i was at that game)…yes, with this continuing it is Francona’s fault…he is supposed to be the boss and should put an end to it.

While I don’t argue that Schilling should have started the 8th or not, after 2 hard hits and with first base open, he should not have pitched to Jeter…Francona’s decison…another poor one.

In modern baseball, the pitching rotations are designed to use the bullpen for the 8th and 9th innings (if not the 7th, 8th, and 9th). the Red Sox have an outstanding pen….they should be used properly.

Francona has to be at the top on that one. He is still the worse manager that we have had and he makes stupid moves that end up losing the ball game for us.We should be ahead by 15 games instead of 4 1/2.Ship him back to the Phillies.

rayman is correct Schilling should be pulled after the second hit. I can understand the management’s lack of confidence in Gagne who had blown three games. Why Farncons didn’t use Bryan Corey or Buchholz in the 8th. Corey hasn’t been scored on yet. As I said, you’ve got to score the run (leadoff double)in the 7th. With 1 run into the 8th, Francona may pull Schilling to protect that run.

Zachary – for what it’s worth, I completely agree with you. I thought maybe they could have walked Jeter just because he is so clutch in that situation but I don’t have any complaints with leaving Schilling in.

Hey Smckinny – tell the Fran-COMA joke again. It’s hilarious the 468th time.

Schilling was within one pitch of getting out of that inning and he was going at it pretty well with Jeter. He made a bad pitch and that’s all there is to it. If Jeter pops out, none of this discussion is happening and Schilling is a hero and Francona is the greatest manager in history for making the brillian decision to leave him in.

As far as Gagne is concerned, he has always been a start the inning closer. He has not been the guy to go in with runners on 2nd and 3rd to get out of a situation. He was not the right pitcher for that situation. The right pitcher would have been the guy who could get you the strikeout, who would have been Papelbon. Although I don’t think leaving Schilling was a bad decision, a better one might have been to go with Papelbon.

We can take some good out of this, all three starters pitched very well. The bullpen blew one, but they have been awesome besides that one game. No reason to think it would happen again should we meet the yanks or whomever else for that matter. The youngsters played well all three games. Cant second guess the manager, as if he changed pitchers and something happened you all would be saying, “god Schilling was doing awesome and had a low pitch count…why did he get replaced”…lol. Nice to see the Rocket in form like that at the age of 45, even if it was against us. Schilling was equaly inspiring which is nice to see with the playoffs looming. Nice to see dice K gut a that performance, and awesome to see the future Cy winner beat Wang, and be masterful while he was doing it. Lets hope the sox are on top of it in Toronto tonight, hopefully Wake Wakes back up.

zachary,

It just seems like you stick up for the Red Sox all the time.

Don’t count me among the folks that think Schilling should have been pulled. I think he should have stayed in. Jeter had trouble with Schilling’s 2 previous pitches. He wasn’t getting good wood but Schilling made a mistake and Jeter capitalized on it. The Yankees star came thru and the Red Sox star didn’t. I still have all the confidence in the world with Ortiz but last night he didn’t cash in.

Ortiz is still the best clutch hitter I have ever seen. I call it the way I see it, that’s all.

zachary,

“Exhibit B: “Schilling pitched a great game its just that he should have never been out for the 8th, yes his pitch count was very low, but come on, as dominant as he had been in the 7th. Top of the 8th, anyone with at least a brain knew it was time to go to the penn.”

Go back and read your first sentence. Let me put it into a simple equation so I understand better: Low pitch count + no sign of slowing down + dominant previous inning = pull the pitcher. Did you formulate that opinion before or after Schilling gave up the 3-run HR? ”

I formulated that opinion before the HR, am i an *** for thinking he should have not been out for the 8th, probably its just what i woluld have done, probably its why francona manages and i dont. sorry i might be wrong and if francona would have gone to the penn yanks might have scored 6 instead of 3 but i guess well never know. In my little brain he blew it. And thats just my opinion you can think my opinion s- u- k- s. and i respect that.

brendan. first of all joke and franCOMA/cona are synonyms in in my view. so you’ll have to narrow it down for me which joke are you referring to? and nobody can accuse me of monday mornin qb-ing. i’ve said the same thing about tito and schill for months. IMO schill is a 6 inning guy now, period. like i said his pitch count was pretty low so i’ll give him the 7th. but IMO no way he should see the 8th EVER unless he has a no-hitter going and/or a HUGE lead. he made a bad pitch for sure and jeter ( as he always seems to, wouldn’t that be nice to have from a captain ) capitalized. BUT that’s the point. that’s why you don’t leave him in. the longer he’s there the more likely that becomes and he doesn’t have that extra 5-7 mph on his fast ball a-more to help him get away with it. beck makes that pitch at 96-97 and chances are jeter doesn’t hit it out. i agree and disagree with gsm on gagne. he is a “start the inn guy” but he should have started the 8th IMO. that’s why they traded for him isn’t it? you don’t know what mighta happened. **** pap got lit up friday nite. the point is francona once again did not give his team their best chance to win.

Yeah Fran-COMA really is a joke. I can’t believe he’s blundered us to having a better record than oh only the other 29 teams in baseball. That makes him deserving of the tag of worst manager in history.

Redsox…great team but no manager..he stinks

first of all rayman. amen. manny, drew, and tek having atypical years hasn’t helped much but i agree with most of what you said. well i guess tek’s is typical for these days but not vintage tek. zachary. i actually kind of agree with you on something. not burning up the bullpen every nite in april/may/june is a good thing. BUT part of managing is recognizing when you have a LEGIT chance at a W and taking adv of it regardless of what time of year it is. if you’re down 6,7,8 early in the year do you do it? no. but there have been far too many opp’s for wins this year that had he done a better job at evaluating those situations they’d likely have an 8-10 game lead as opposed to 4. there’s such a thing as being too conservative. also this ain’t april. you have no reason to save the pen now. you have expanded rosters and there are 12 games left. i think it’s time to go all out.

well he is comically bad but i never said he was the worst in history. i didn’t even say he was WORST right now. i’d say that goes to charlie manual. but he’s a lot closer to the btm of the list than the top IMO. and as far as the record read rayman’s comments. that says it all. they have a great deal of talent and he comes nowhere close to maximizing it. again theo doesn’t help him a whole lot during the year but he’s avg at best IMO.

Seems to me everyone is missing (or not talking about) the most important point here (to me) — my question is why in the world pitch to Jeter with first base open? You have the must clutch hitter in baseball this year with a .429 batting average with runners in scoring position (as I recall), and a Boston nemesis of sorts — and you pitch to him?

What difference does 1 more guy on first base make at that point, and you set up an out an any base. I had the same feeling as soon as we started to pitch to Jeter that I had with Little left Pedro in, in the 2003 ALCS. I knew it was fatal move some how.

My beef is not so much pitching Schilling in the 8th (although I wouldn’t have even with his pitch count — its still too many times to face the Yankee rotation in one game for Schilling) — but having made that decision — the real tactical error was not intentially walking Jeter. And the fact that Abreou got a double at the next at bat is irrelavent. Different pitcher, different pressure, different situation.

Unless someone can tell me that Abreous’ percentage against Schilling is signifcinatly better than Jeter’s that was the game losing decision in my book.

Moving on — I am concerned that the SOX might have to go 9-3 to lock up the division now. The Yanks are playing really well — and I really could see them going 13-0 down the stretch. Call me paranoid, but 6 games against Baltimore, 4 Toronto, 3 Tampa Bay — it is conceivable. And it doesn’t matter that the Yankee record hasn’t been good against these teams — it wasn’t good against the SOX 7 games ago — and then they beat us 6 of 7 — ouch. Baltimore has nothing left. That leaves Tampa and/or Toronto to beat them once or twice?

Oh well, wouldn’t hurt the SOX to go 9 and 3 anyway. 8-4 could end with a tie with the Yanks if they win out (and in that case, they win due to thier season record 10-8 against us).

Anyone else as worried as I am?

Who are the managers you think are worse than him? Why are they worse?

dgneubert. i see what you’re saying about jeter. personally i just think gagne ( or delcarmen or SOMEBODY ) should have been in the game besides schill to start the inn. i’m not a big fan of walking the base loaded that late in the game. just my take. i may be the biggest pessimist on here and even i don’t think the yank’s will win out. 10/3 is a distinct possibility however. maybe even 11/2. i’ll take my chances at 8/4. 9/3 would be great. and a lock but i really don’t see that either. oak and minn have some pretty decent pitching. and we know they havn’t exactly lit up TB and tor lately.

Its still too early to judge Francona.

On the surface he seems 98% strategic, managing for the whole season and next year, and 2% tactical managing to win a game at perhaps significant cost.

Hopefully he has more guts than all of us critics, instead of less good sense :).

I prefer to hope that he will really start to switch gears now.

The whole team management is too statistical and too formula at time, but that is very easy to say. Still, the Yanks seem willing to pitch Chamberlin (where is his pitch count) — we cower in fear over our numbers. Where is the balance? Do you have to have extremes like Grady Little (no numbers) or an opposite skewed mentality that seems is prison to numbers?

I just hope the SOX are out-smarting us all and waiting for the last possible moment with the greatest possible impact to make some bold TACTICAL moves (ESPECIALLY IN THE GAMES), instead of what looks like too much managing for next year.

Hey all…Listen, there is NO WAY you bring Schilling out in that situation. Although I am a Yankee fan and not exactly the biggest supporter of Francona as a manager (although the bashing on him is still somewhat over the top – he is bad but not nearly as brutal as I have seen over the years (see Bobby Cox)), remember this: this IS the playoffs right now for these teams. If Shelling makes the pitch to Jeter its a vastly different story. Your best against their best. You let it all hang out now. Plus, why would you take out a pretty effective Shelling in favor of your pen, knowing the Yankees have gotten to them in many games this year. Francona did the right thing. He played it to win, the Yankees just burned him. It happens. Not every time is it gonna go your, or my, way. I am glad the stars decided this game, kind of fitting huh? Anyways, great series overall and see you in October Nation!

brendan. suffice it to say that given the talent he has there arn’t many who wouldn’t have a better record IMO. look you think he’s great, apparently, i don’t. you might like tomato’s. i don’t. we just agree to disagree. i’ve listed ad naseum the reasons i think he’s bad. you seem to wanna look at the fact they have the best record THIS YEAR and base it on that. i look at his body of work the last 4 yrs and i disagree. and pls don’t bring up ’04. ozzie won it in ’05 what do you think of him now? and yes i think he’s worst.

dgneubert. personally i do think they’re too sabre metric/moneyball oriented. that’s the billy beane effect on theo IMO. hence the JD Drew signing. you have to have a balance of those numbers with common sense IMO. the jist of moneyball i think is great pitching and high OBP on off. well who is gonna get those guys across the plate? you’re not gonna win every game 3-2 and ML pitchers are not going to continually walk in runs. i know they count on manny and papi for that but they need more balance at the back IMO. same with tito. i get saving the pen in certain situations. i just think he struggles with balancing winnable games from those that are not and makes too many poor/conservative decisions as a result. and as a rule he’s far too patient with starters. especially this time of the year.

get that pen ready. it’s the evil wake and not the good one!

smckinny,

The problem tonight I don’t think will be Wakefield. This hitting or lack there of is going to be the problem. It seems the first game after a Yankee series, the Red Sox are lifeless. Yankees are the same way after a Red Sox series. All that emotion and those 2 teams are drained.

I see where Ellsbury has protection over that right foot after getting hit there last night. Typical Ellsbury, slaps it the other way, good approach by the rookie. He should be on the run real soon.

Very impressed from what I see from McGowan. Alot of life on his pitches tonight.

These Blue Jay announcers are putting me to sleep. Very boring these 2.

Where is Joe Magrane when you need him? LOL….

This stupid Blue Jay announcer says Lind watches it go off the wall. What play was he watching? Lind went against the wall and almost made a great catch.

bosox. hope you’re right about wake. he just scares me anytime you get to a must win type game. and this is pretty close to that. he can give up runs faster than anybody i can remember.

I wouldn’t label this a must win smckinny. I don’t think where at that stage yet. Do I want them play better and put together a winning streak, yes but not a must win.

Your pal Varitek will not strand any runners on base tonight. Perhaps later right? He had a rough series vs N.Y. at the plate. Alot of his swings were very weak, didn’t hit the ball with any authority.

Coco forgetting his passport. Someone had to go back to his condo and get it. If I was Francona I would have said see ya tomm and good luck with getting a flight to Toronto. I guess that is the difference with football and baseball. A coach in football would have left him behind while in baseball no big deal. I would assume Crisp got some sort of fine. If I was on that flight I would have been pissed.

that’s the one comforting thought about wake pitching these days. no tek! it’s close to a must win considering they got 5 more on the road this week and the yankees 5 at home. they’re beating balt BTW. prob 3 1/2 after tonite. guess their recovery time is less. of course manny and yuk playing might help. still can’t believe he’s missed 20 games with a pulled muscle.

oh well. it’s always a **** shoot w/wake. you can’t EXPECT a low scoring win with him pitching. of course 1 run ain’t gonna beat many people. please don’t let him pitch the 7th!

I’m not too surprised with the Ramirez injury. Initially the reports were it would be 10 days, perhaps 10 days from the end of the season. Those muscle pulls can be linger and be a problem. If the Sox were in a closer race I think Ramirez would return sooner than later. They have some cushion obviously but after tonight it will be alot closer.

Bosox

You are kidding abour Coco-aren’t you?

That is the story gsumner.

Crisp last year lived north of the city, at least they didn’t have to go that far. He lives somewhere not too far from the airport.

gsumner,

They say the Sox got to Toronto at 4:00 a.m. because of Coco going brainless.

I’d be surprised if they don’t fine him-what an idiot.

I would assume they fined him. Not very smart. I think they should have taken off without him.

I guess with Tavarez warming up, Bucholtz will get the start Wed. night.

Bucholtz is warming up. My bad….I’m sleeping like the Red Sox….

Why bring him into a game where your trailing?

Tavarez might get the start on Wed.

I hope so-we pounded Tavarez last time

A friend and I joked earlier this year that knowing the Red Sox the lead over the Yankees would be around 2 games by Sept. Ummm… what is happening here? They are dramatic I’ll give ‘em that.

Of course that is an error by Cora. These Jays announcers sounded shocked. Cora makes the play and Rios is out easy.

If the Sox cough up this lead into the end to the Yanks AGAIN this year, I will be forced to conclude it is due either to:

(a) the collective fatalism and superstition of the whole city/fan base

(b) the same company that really owns the WWF owns MLB and this is all scripted to dupe us year after year with one big harah every 86 years or so — how else do you explain the same pattern with different players over decades? Just kidding of course… maybe :)

Thomas with the hat trick….

Snyder is on fumes…Thanks for the good 1st half and a little more there Snyder….He is stinking it up lately…

Our lineup tonight was laughable. Not hard to believe we are getting killed. Any chance Manny is going to come back and contribute at some point? Any chance we get desperate enough to throw out the Bucholz rules and put someone out there with a chance to win. Anybody know a cure for sleepwalking?

dgneubert,

The WWF and MLB getting together. Now that is GREAT!!!! The joke is on us….

Sox have lost 3 of there last 4 and showing no signs of life tonight….They’ll go to 1-5 playing the next game after the Yankee series….I didn’t think this would be a victory but as a player at least show up, show some passion guys!!!!

Johnson gets hit alot anyway…Snyder is just awful…He’ll be watching the playoffs just like us….

snyder has suked lately but he’s a long relief guy when he’s on. i wouldn’t bring him in for 1 inn late. too volatile. a lot like wake and tavares. i gotta tell ya i know i’m pessimistic all the time but i am truly stunned. i have never seen a team a baseball team this jekyll and hide offensively. basketball, football yes. not baseball. this is not great pitching they’re facing people. they just flat out refuse to hit at times. no agression whatsoever at the plate. they take hittable pitches all the time looking for walks. bosox you might think they have a “cushion” and technically they do but it ain’t one i feel comfy sittin on. i honestly think for the first time thee’s a decent chance they will blow this thing. unreal. i mean you got lester goin tom. nite. he a ????. tavares on wed.. they might get swept. and likely go to TB with a 1 game lead. wow.

Bonehead play by Ellsbury trying to stretch a single into a double. What’s that going to accomplish when you’re down 5?

Hurts even more after Pedroia singles and you have the big bats coming up.

Why is that bonehead, the guy is trying to make something happen out there. The team was down and showing no signs of life. If it was a 2 run game, I would say bonehead.

Go for the extra base. This team was done before the game even started. They showed no signs of life out there.

I’m not at the stage of them blowing it. Not yet….LOL….

We’ll see how it unfolds with this series.

Burnett tomm night and when healthy which he is, he’ll blow you away.

It’s definitely time to be concerned. The Sox had a chance to take care of business against the Yankees, and didn’t. Now they lay an egg tonight. I hate to say it, but the Yankees, Indians, Angels and Tigers are better teams than the Sox right now. This is the worst time of the year to lose confidence and fall into a funk. I think the Sox will at least win the wild card – if they continue playing this way, they will not win the AL East. Either way, they are not going to advance past the ALDS playing like this.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

Bosox

So how’d you like McGowan? 122 pitches and still bringing it at 99 MPH. Oh well, maybe you’ll like Burnett’s 99 mph tommorrow night.

I can tell the cheeks in here are getting tight. You guys all need to relax, they will likely win the wild card. BUT and a big BUT-if you don’t get better starting pitching and timely hitting you won’t get past the first round

Zachary

Maybe you didn’t notice but McGowan held Ortiz to a 0 and 4-with 3 k’s; and Petrolia, Lowell, Drew, Hinske and Crisp got 2 singles between all of them. McGowan dominated this part of your lineup, so waiting for the big bats to come up wasn’t the right call

Sox will probably win the divison but big deal if you get bounced within a week.

They’re playing lifeless baseball.

How is that NOT a bonehead play? What is the difference between a double and a single when you are down 5 runs and leading off the inning? You need base runners, period. Ellsbury could have taken 2nd base on defensive indifference on the very next pitch, so why take the chance at getting caught?

I did notice that McGowan held the middle of the order down gsumner, but his pitch count was up and at least with 2 men on and 0 out, he’d have something extra to think about with Ortiz at the plate.

I realize it’s not important since nothing ended up coming of it, but you can be sure that if Drew or Varitek tried to push that into a double and got thrown out, everybody would be all over them and not praising aggressiveness. I understand that the Golden Boy was the one thrown out, but from a pure baseball standpoint it’s just not smart.

I’m not going to nail a kid for hustling in a 5 run game.

That to me is not bonehead. Down a run or two, that classifies as bonehead.

That team was down and out right from the get go.

zachary—Your reaching there. You might be right someone on here would nail Drew if he did it, not me. Never nail anyone for hustling especially when a team is down and out like the Sox were.

Zachary

At the start of the season that might have affected McGowan as a young starter-but not anymore-he actually gets tougher with guys on.

zachary. first of all you’re assuming tek or drew would get a hit as opposed to a walk which is a major stretch! especially for tek. down 6-1 it really doesn’t matter. chances of coming back for this team are slim and none. I’M NOT piling on franComa here. for once this had lil if anything to do with him in terms of game mgt. but this teams total lack of any sense of urgency or fire, desire ever how you want to phrase to me is a direct reflection of his personality. this there’s always tom ( or next year )approach/mindset. i’d really like to hear him come out and challenge these guys for their lack of effort and try to fire them up a lil. won’t happen but it would be a nice change of pace. and oh BTW. they are in serious trouble and now they are in must win mode. i’m tellin ya the yankees won’t lose more than 2-3 games from here out. sch is just too easy and they do have that killer instinct this team seems to lack. he needs to play manny and youk even if they are not 100%. most guys aren’t this time of year anyway. they’re lucky the tigers have had the issues they’ve had with their pitching or they would be in REAL trouble for the playoffs. i really just can’t fathom they have put themselves in this position. get ready for ana in the p-offs folks. that may be a blessing as hot as the indians are/have been.

smckinny: your posts are all the same. If you are going to kill this team every night they lose, why do you even come on?

We all know what you are going to say and then Saturday when they HAD that killer instinct against Wang you were nowhere to be found.

Whos to say your not right and they do lose in the p-season but as fans we all like to believe and keep the faith. You seem to have little of it. And calling the guy Francoma is a little bit childish. Like one of those 4th grade bullies that picks on other kids by calling them names. Every time I see you right that or Yankee fans call Torre Clueless Joe, I laugh. I’m sure he was also Francoma in Games 4-5-6 against the Yanks pitching the pen perfectly with Foulkie and Timlin. It is great coming on these message boards and obsessing with my fellow fans but lately reading these negative posts is such a downer. Your a perfect example of the pre-2004 Sox fan. No matter what happens they will find a way to lose. If I didn’t know any better I would think you were a Yankee fan.

All you guys are crazy if you think they are going to lose the division. 3.5 up with 11 to go. I would be surprised if they lost more than 4 meaning the Yanks would have to play 11-2. Everyone calm down, breath through your nose and relax. Just like last Friday, once they win tomorrow everything will be okay again and the doom and gloom brigade (1 member) will disappear.

The way the Sox are playing now, it is likely that the Sox will only win 1-3 in a 3 game series and 2-2 in a 4 game series. Will the Sox still be in the playoff?

rizzo. you might wanna go back and look. i was on here sat for awile but was out most of the day and nite. it’s called having a life. try it some time. i’ve been a sox fan since the mid-70′s. how bout you? people like you who keep livin in ’04 amaze me. do you not ever want/expect to win anything again? it’s almost as bad as you folks who wanna judge someone’s loyalties or personality traits based on what/how they write/phrase things on a silly i-net blog. i come on here to have fun, vent, and share and/or debate opinions not to judge others based on what they write. if i did. i’d say folks like you who think their morally superior way is the only way and if we all click our heels and wish really, really hard the sox will win it all are dreamers. to put it nicely. if you think you know what i’ll write and you don’t like it don’t read it. it’s not intended to make you happy (or depressed) anymore than what you might write makes me happy. i could care less how someone phrases something it’s whether or not what they say has any merit that interests me. bottom line is nothinig said here impacts anything. some people vent more negatively, some are more positive, and some middle of the road. ****, even jeff added that the sox were in serious danger of blowing the div after tonite. and oh BTW my humble opinion is that if reading what someone you’ve never met writes
( about a baseball team/game no less ) on an i-net blog depresses you, you might wanna seek some professinal help/therapy. because you obviously have other issues. i hope you’re right about tonite and the div.. i know you’re wrong about 1 other thing though. i’m won’t be disappearing until the end of the season. which hopefully will be late oct.

I found a good team comparison that should show why I am so frustrated:

Oakland 2003 vs. RedSox 2007:

Record:

Oakland – 96 – 66, 1st in division

Redsox – likely 96-98 wins if we are lucky

ERA:

Oakland – 1st in AL – 3.63

Redsox – 1st in AL – 3.86

Hitting:

Oakland – 9th in runs, 12th in average

Redsox – 3rd in runs, 5th in average

Fielding:

Oakland – 7th

Redsox – tied for 1st

Payroll:

Don’t even go there.

Oakland wins 96 games with NOTHING but pitching. We have it all and might not even match their wins. That’s why I tend to put so much blame on our management.

It’s official, Buchholz is going on Wednesday in place of Dice-K. If Lester can’t get this thing going in the right direction, hopefully our other rookie pitcher can inject some energy and life into the team for the last 10 games.

007chow. IMO any worst than 8/4 and they’ll blow the div. but make the p-offs. it’s certainly doable but they’re gonna have show a lil more heart than last nite. these next 2 at tor are toss up’s. lester and tavares and inconsistent at best. they can be good and bad just as easily. i doubt they win either game 1-0 though. in other words they need to step it up off.

rayman. i agree with what you’re to an extent. i’m certainly not a huge “moneyball” guy like beane and theo. but to be totally fair, IMO, this teams core issues in no particular order have been: francona’s game mgt/decision making, the fact that that drew and tek have just been awful, and lastly manny hasn’t been manny ( .300/35/100+ ). theo screwed the drew thing up totally that’s well doc. he’s not and unlikely to ever be the run production guy this team expected/needed/wanted. and then when he traded WMP and had opp’s to go out and get a “power” bat he passed. once again. all that said it hasn’t killed’em yet. i just hope they can get it together these last 2 weeks. your point is VERY valid though. this team shoulda won well over 100 and had this deal wrapped up awhile ago.

I didn’t mean to bring Moneyball into the equation… I just wanted to find a team with great pitching that won about the same number of games as the RedSox and then take a look at all of the other stats. Everyone says Pitching and Defense wins games… we’re first in both and haven’t wrapped up squat yet with 11 games to go. That’s pitiful.

http://wbztv.com/video/?cid=37

Red Sox Rookies dressed up in drag! Hilarious! I can’t believe the veterans make them do this!

PS, Dice-K is definitely the funniest!!

yeah but throw in OBP and that’s the “moneyball” formula ( pit, def, OBP ). basically anyway IMO. i agree w/ya on the div not being wrapped up. don’t forget they’re 3rd in runs scored as well. although unbelievably inconsistent. 50+ games of 3 runs or less and sill 3rd. it’s conjecture ( and a SWAG ) by me but i’d bet they’ve lost 10-15 games through poor fundamentals and poor game/pitching mgt..

OK Let’s face it you can throw out statistics all we want the way. I see this season comes down to how the Yankees play for the rest of the year. They have been hot again winning 12 of the last 14 and sit at 86 wins. The Sox have 90 wins now and should if they dont’ screw it up too badly end up with 97 wins. Winning 1 of the next 2 in Toronto, then take 2 of 3 for the remaining 3 series? I hate to say it but the Division lays in the hands of Baltimore and TB winning some games down the stretch. If they don’t we don’t win the division, plain and simple. If they do then we have a shot. Just my opinion.

If burnett Pitches like Last time out Vs yankees,chalk up one more loss for the sox!!

It seems that the Sox will find a way to win whenever Lester is on the mound no matter how poorly pitches. It is hard to imagine that the Sox needs help from other teams to stay ahead in the division especially with 14 1/2 games lead at one time.
The management finally does the right thing by moving back Dice man to Saturday. It will give Dice man more rest and set the proper rotation for October.

they( NY ) will get tor’s best ( h-day, mcgowan, burnett )over a 4 game stretch so there maybe an opp there for 1 or 2 l’s. even though they will be in NY. but you are correct and it is indeed mindboggling to me as well. setting up the rotation for oct is all well and good but unless i miscalculated or they make a change it also sets wake up to pitch the final game and that’s always an adventure. especially if that game does winds up meaning something. i.e. home field or the div.

smartpenn, the season doesn’t have anything to do with how the Yankees, O’s, or Rays play. It only has to do with how the Sox play. They have control of their own destiny and there’s nothing any of thsoe teams can do about it if the Sox play well and win.

If someone told us at the beginning of the season that Manny would be out the last part of August and most of September, that Schilling would miss six weeks with tendonitis, that J.D. Drew would struggle around .250 with virtually no production, that Lugo would be hitting around .225, that Manny’s production would be at 20HR and less than 100RBI, that Brendan Donnelly would be gone for more than half the season, that Mike Timlin would miss well over a month, along with a few other things, where would you have guessed the Sox would be in the standing right now. I can tell you if someone told me that, I’d say battling it out with the Rays and the O’s at the bottom of the division. All things considered, it has been a pretty remarkable season for the Sox, and they will enter the playoffs with a fairly well rested pitching staff. I guess that all means despite some of his bonehead decisions, old Tito has done a pretty fair job.

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