One more for the road

Road game No. 81 on the season is right here at the Trop, fresh off last night’s wild game, capped by a modest post-game celebration.

For what it’s worth, the Red Sox seem serious about winning the division. Why start on the road if you don’t have to?

I think Francona will manage things fairly normally over the next few days and get guys assorted rest here and there while getting others back in the lineup.

Pedroia is getting a breather today. Still no Manny; Still no Youk.

Wakefield at the Trop. That’s a winning combination for sure. At least it always has been in the past.

Later,

Ian.

202 Comments

Typical Francona head-scratcher. Bat Cora… a career .240 hitter, hitting .221 since the break, batting between our hottest hitter (Ellsbury) and our best hitter (Ortiz). There is nobody else that can take that spot and contribute?

It would be nice to feel that we have a chance against a 4-15 pitcher with 5.80 ERA, but we sure look awful. Only chance we have to win the division is for the Jays, Rays, and O’s come up big against the Yanks.

Well, if Our Sox and th eYnks end up tied, the Yanks get the Title due to our season record vs them…. WE CANNOT HAVE THIS HAPPEN.

Absolutly no posts today? Is it just due to another lackluster performance against the last place team in the league with the division on the line?

Given the last 2 World Series winners limped to the finish line… I guess I’m not too concerned that we’re now down to 1 reliable starting pitcher with sub 4.00 ERA.

Since the Sox have clinched a post season berth, do you think that Francona will rest Beckett and skip his next scheduled start on Thursday? Or do you think he’ll give him the chance to win #21 & increase his chances of winning a Cy Young?

i don’t know what it is that this team can’t sweep ANYBODY. they just can’t seem to put together multiple good games in a row. y-day was not unexpected. you know wake is gonna give up some runs so you better plan on out scoring the other guy when he pitches. rayman. i don’t understand pedroia sitting y-day either. particularly when you have a day off today. i guess when you consider no manny, youk, or pedroia ( on sunday ) 2 out of 3 ain’t bad but they better hope tor can beat NY today otherwise they prob can’t afford to lose another game. and that would mean 6 in a row and we know how unlikely that is.

if their serious about the div beck has to pitch. i think he would anyway. with his time on the DL his inn’s pitched are in pretty good shape for the year.

Farncona must realize that Schil, Dice-K, and Wake are basically 6 inning pitchers. I will be very concerned either of them pitches into the 7th despite the low pitch counts. The Sox must get Oki and Gagne back as a setup man for Papelbon. Use Cory, Tavarez, Timlin for the 7th.
Let’s see if the Sox can pick up 1/2 game (Go Blue Jay!)today and reduce the magic number to 5.

well now that they’ve clinched it’ll be int to see what approach cleve and ana take. will they stick with their reg’s and go all out for best record/home field or take the franCOMA approach that it’s not that important and rest guys. i’m guessing the former.

The Sox has to get Youk back into the lineup. With Ellsbury’s speed, defense, and hitting for average, who wants Manny back.
Even the Yanks won 2 out of 3 from the Jays, their bull pen is pretty worn out and their regulars are pretty banged up after playing intensive “must win” gamses in the second half. We shall see. If the Sax can pick up 1/2 game this afernoon, we are in good shape for the division title.

When Manny returns, I would hope that Ellsbury splits time between center and right field. I know his ave. is bound to come down eventually, but he’s currently 100 points higher than Crisp and Drew. I wouldn’t be disappointed at all to see those guys sit.

Went to the Trop for the game yesterday and was a little disappointed to drive all the way down from Jax for a loss. Still it was a great time and that’s actually a pretty good place to watch a game. They’ve done a lot of work there since the last time I went down a few years ago.

Jacoby Ellsbury steal second base on a pitchout, gets another hit, a walk, and makes a nice defensive play in left field. Rumors started in Extra Bases about his being part of a package deal for Johann Santana thiss off season. Any thoughts on that? I think with Beckett, Bucholz, Lester, and Wakefield anchoring the staff next year, that’s not a move the Sox need to make.

Where is the squawking Jay bird sumner?Pretty quiet now!

It would be plain stupid to deal away Ellsbury. Just like the rumors that the Yanks will deal away Ian Kennedy as part of the package to have Scheffield back. Good to have Santana but not at Ellsbury’s expense. The Sox needs a strong middle relief pitcher.
Starting rotation like Beckett, Dice K, Buchholz, Lester, and Wake look pretty strong me. Keep Ellsbury.

Yeah 007, I didn’t even mention Dice-K. Now that he knows what to expect, I think he’ll be much better next year.

This week, I think Beckett will take his turn, but it would surprise me to see him only go 3 or 4 innings with a 70 or 80 pitch limitation. I could be wrong, but I don’t think the Sox are going to be all that concerned about winning the division. They’ll be more concerned about getting healthy for the playoffs.

It would not surprise me to see Manny is done for the year. After missing a month, most of which he couldn’t run, I would wonder about how productive he’s going to be if he does come back.

I can’t freakin type any more. I meant to say it wouldn’t surprise me to see Beckett go only 3 or 4 innings.

dandri

What’s the matter, want us to win the pennant for you? We have taken 1 of 3 and expected Burnett to start today, unfortunately that isn’t happening.

If I was you, I’d be more concerned about your team’s efforts than ours, particulary when your last two prized starters gave up 9 runs in 11 and 2/3 innings. You can’t win with those performances.

sumner you came of hibernation,does not seem like your prize staff did any better!!See ya next year!!

Beckett will definitely get a chance to go 5 innings in his next start… probably on a 90-100 pitch limit.

Even if the Yanks win this afternoon, the Sox still has 1 game lead. The Sox is playing at home while the Yanks on the road. Just keep in pace with the Yanks.

Top of 2nd, TOR 3, NYY 0.
Those f—Jays were tough on the Sox, but keep blowing leads against the Yanks over the weekend.

007. i think that says more about the yanks offense than anything to do w/toronto. they just nevr let up. unlike our boys who seem to regularly.

Yanks getting pounded alreaedy 4-0. Is there any team out there that will actually maintain the lead and put them away? Hopefully this Litsch guy is the answer. 2 game lead with 6 to go should really close things out.

read somewhere manny and youk are supposed to be taking BP today so i would imagine we’ll hear soon enough. personally not only would i be disappointed i’d be shocked if they don’t go all out ( play everybody reg inn’s ) to get the best record and home field. historically it is a HUGE adv.. assuming they play ana at some lackey and escobar might not even have to pitch at fenway w/o it. they prob would but still. looking at the sch’s i think it’ll take 97 w’s to be certain 96 is a possibility or at least a tie in all liklihood.

gsm as for ellsbury. if you believe what you read he’s the reason they don’t have texiera. supposedly he and bucholz were considered untouchable under any circumstance. you never know w/theo though. he makes some interesting choices.

The Jays will blow a 4 run lead going into the 9th. Even if the Yanks can pull this one out, the Yanks will be mentally and physically exhausted going on the road trip.

i think their offseason moves will hinge on what a-rod does. if he opts out. they’ll go after him hard. if they get him they prob trade manny and pretty much roll with the staff they have in place. w/ coco in left and ells in center. if he doesn’t opt or they can’t sign him they probably will look to strengthen their pitching even more. i think lowells gone personally. he’ll want a raise an i don’t see them paying him 11-12mm a year. although he’d be smart to stay if that’s a viable option. he’s +100 points ( BA )at fenway vs on the road. he benefits from the monster more than anyone IMO.

smckinny, Ellsbury and Bucholz should be considered untouchable. They are the future of the franchise. You’re right though, you just never know about Theo.

gsumner, I have to give the Jays credit because they are playing hard to the very end. Even being down yesterday they tried to come back and today they are giving the Yankees all they can handle.

Let’s just hope that Litsch stays strong and the Jays don’t have to dip into that lousy bullpen.

Bottom of 6th, TOR 4 NYY 0
Go Jays!

i think us fans are way more concerned about the sox winning the division than the red sox are. i think that all they want is for the sox to make the playoffs..but i think it makes a difference if we play the angels or we play the indians…i guess we’ll see what happens this week…

Whew… Farnsworth brought in… looked like the Yanks were trying to claw their way back into this one.

It will be a miracle if the Jays hold onto this one and get the split. They don’t have a single guy in their lineup batting .300 and 5 of 9 are under .250. Come on Litsch! Hold on!

007, it’s 4-1 now :-\

yes, end of 7th, 4-1. 6 more outs. Please Jays, don’t blow it again. Thunder doesn’t strike 4 times.

Yankees down to their last 6 outs. Hard to believe that Litsch has pitched the best out of their 4 starters this series and most likely better than Burnett would have.

I thought coming in that this game would decide the division. The Yankees will play 1 game better than the Sox this week so a TOR win today almost assures the Sox of a division title, barring a complete meltdown against two teams that have no cares whatsoever in these final games.

Not comfortable with a Blue Jays 3 run lead they need some tack on runs.

Leadoff double, must get that run in. Go Jays!

No way is this the division. What happens if we lose tomorrow and Tankees win? Then we only have a one game lead with 5 to play. Also, the Yankees have 3 against the Rays and 3 against the worst team in baseball rightr now, the O’s.

Tankees is a typo. Not a derogatory nickname. Freudian slip maybe.

If the Blue Jays can hold on to win this one, it would be HUGE for the Red Sox. The difference between 1 and 2 games, especially when the tie breaker goes to New York, cannot be overstated.

All we need is for Tampa Bay and Baltimore to somehow take one out of the next six games from the Yankees. Easier said than done, especially considering how awful Baltimore is. I have faith that Tampa Bay can give the Yankees some trouble.

There is no excuse for the Red Sox not winning 4 out of their next 6 games, especially considering they miss Dan Haren in the Oakland series.

Hang on Toronto.

Yes, but they are on the road where the Yankees are playing 1 over .500 and Sox are at Fenway playing .630 ball. I can’t see the Sox going worse than 4-2 and if the Yankees win 6 straight hats off to them.

I like the Tankees too. Funny how your fingers sometimes override your mind when thinking of something to say ;)

Left the leadoff double stranded at 2nd. Unbelievable!

Just noticed as well the Sox are going to miss Santana since he goes Wednesday against the Tigers. Talk about dodging a bullet there, although he has not had his greatest of seasons.

Litsch and Jannsen to try and combine for the 8th and Accardo for the 9th.

Here comes the Blue Jay meltdown… up 3 with 6 outs to go. Any time you have 5+ innings to tack on insurance runs and you do nothing… that comes back to haunt you… especially when you have no closer.

TB should have Kazmir going 1 game which could give the Yanks trouble. Baltimore at home could theoritically take one. You never know. Litsch had a 4.00 ERA and he’s shutting them down in NY. NY should be pretty tired after this series plus 2 travels.

3 outs to go for the Jays with Accardo pitching the 9th. Still not enough, they need some insurance

over!! back to 2 games :)

Jays win, Magic Number 5

You guys have to have faith.

I told you we would split.

Breathing room!

It’s over! Thank you our trusted friends at the north of the border. We know we can count on you in time of need.

Theeeeeeeeeeeeeee Jays win!

The Yankees lose!!!! Whew!!!!

So what did you guys think of our 22 year old AA pitcher Jessie Litsch, going on a day he wasn’t expecting to pitch and hold the best offensive team in baseball to 5 hits and 1 run over 7 and 2/3 innings.

Sorry if I’m gloating. lol

I wasn’t able to see the game, but as for this moment, I bow to him!! I proclaim 4:08 pm as his moment as King of my heart!!!
All kidding aside, Rookie pitchers in the A.L. have shown great presence this year. Bucholtz, Litsch, Joba da hut (Chamberlain). i don’t think I can remember a year when so many young pitchers have made a difference.

rayman. I did post yesterday, but it was on the WRONG one@!!!! Many blonde moments this weekend!!!! and to think I haven’t even colored my hair yet!!

thx toronto. that was a big assist. wouldn’t surprise me at all to see the yankees win 5 of their last 6. it wouldn’t surprise me if they win all 6 considering kazmir is the only guy they face with a winning record i believe. still think as of right now boston needs to go 5/1 to gurantee home field. as was pointed out it should be doable considering they miss haren and santana. ana finishes at tex and oak. cleve at seattle and KC. gotta figure worst case they each go 4/3. guess that’s why they play the games though.

The Sox will take the division by splitting the next 6 games even if the Yanks win 2 out 3 in each series.

I still lament the 4 games Gagne blew and the Yankees series that Francona mismanaged. Or else…..

5-1 would be very difficult to achieve. Blaton is generally a better pitcher than Lester, one of the pitchers for the Twins (Slowy) is 4-0, and another game we have Wakefield, who has been shaky recently. I’d be happy with 4-2. And more power to the Yankees if they win the last 6.

#1: I don’t think they should plan on splitting the next 6 games for various reasons, including momentum going into the playoffs.

#2: We need to stop worrying about what the Yankees are doing and keep an eye on the Angels and Indians. The Sox should be shooting for the best record in the AL now.

#3: As smckinny mentioned, all three of the teams we are primarily concerned with are on the road for their last 6 while the Sox are home. This is a huge advantage and they need to capitalize on it.

007 they would indeed. but the yankees face 1 pitcher in the last 6 with an era under 5.00 ( kazmir ) so i wouldn’t count on that. plus just winning the div ( esp at 95 w’s ) doesn’t nece guarantee home field throughout. or really even at all if ana and cleve get to 96.

brendan. wake always scares me this time of year. 5/1 won’t be easy but if they get manny and youk ( or even just youk )back on paper their still far better than those 2. if he plays everybody that is. like i said though that’s why you play the game. certainly could have made the same statement about tor and NY today.

As some of you may know. I have on occasion questioned terry’s pitching moves. Leaving starters in too long, using that reliever or this reliever. So my wife says to me the other day, have you ever thought that maybe he knows his players and they’re capabilities and usefulness in certain situations better than you. Now of course my answer to this is, what the guy spends spring training and a few more hours in the club house and dugout through the year than me and you think that he knows them better than me. What? I watch these guys on tv surely, I can see whats going on here. Her answer to this is hey why don’t you apply for the job. To which I said, no way too many headaches! Maybe we should all be thankful for everything we have. GO RED SOX!

Granted the Yanks is a all star team. With all the heroic comback, it really takes the toll on the team overall. The younger players (Cano & Cabrera) are ok, but the older players like Damon, Jeter, Rodrigues, Matsui are playing hurt. I do not believe that Yanks will win 6 games. The best they can do is winning 2 out of 3 in each series.

Toronto is a strange team. They are not good enough to be serious contenders, but they have enough pitching to give teams like the Sox and Yankees fits. Glad the Yankees lost today, but it is very true that the Sox should not worry about what the Yankees are doing, they need to focus on winning one game at a time. They can definitely take five out of six. The playoffs start tomorrow, in my opinion. The Sox need to get home field advantage, and if they do that the AL East title will be won.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

007. you maybe right about the yanks. i hope you are. but honestly having the best OVERALL record and home field is what it’s about IMO. winning the div ( and beating the yanks ) is just a happy byproduct and something you have to do to acc that goal.

Jeff

You either have to be kidding me, or you just aren’t all that familiar with what happened to the Jays this year.

We lost our closer-BJ Ryan, our set up guy-Brandon League, a lefty reliever-Romero, our lead off guy-Johnson and three starters before the bell rang to start the season.

Shortly after the season got underway, we lost Halliday for 6 weeks, Burnett for 6 weeks, Glaus-on and off, Overbea for 8 weeks, Zaun for 8 weeks and at one point of time had 11 players on the DL.

Throughout the season Glaus and Wells played hurt and have now both gone under the knife.

We’ve had 11 guys have operations, so far.

In spite of all that, we have led the majors in pitching since the All Star break with a sparkling era of 3.53.

So it’s not that we’re a strange team, we have just had a ton of injuries this year.

I would be surpsrisd if Cleveland and Anaheim did not give some guys rest this week or weekend and therefore be in a position to lose 2 out of 3 in either series. Not winning the division until late in the season could prove beneficial for the Sox in that they have something to play for this weekend and sneak away with best record.

Gsumner – I agree. I think next year Toronto have all the makings of an AL East contender. They have two aces in the hole in Halladay and Burnett, while I reckon McGowan will step up and have a big year next year. Marcum, Chacin and Litsch should combine to form an effective back end of the rotation. They also have an elite closer back next year, while Accardo, Jannsen and Downs make up the guts of a very solid bullpen net year. They seem pretty good defensively, with good arms in the outfield and the best defensive SS in the AL.

The biggest thing they need (apart from the need to stay healthy) is an extra bat or two. Even then, if everyone is healthy they have Wells, Thomas, Rios, Overbay, and Glaus. Also, they have Adamas, who is having a very good year. All in all, it seems to be the making of a very good team.

If the playoffs started today, I wouldn’t be concerned about the matchups. Cleveland would get best record, take the short series and draw New York. The Sox would play at home against LA (same record, but Boston has a better H2H record against them 6-4) and get to utilize their 4 best, who I would take over Lackey, Escobar, Weaver and Saunders/Santana.

Then if NY makes it on, Boston still has homefield against them. If Cleveland somehow beats NY in most likely 5 games, the Sox would get to face a tired Sabathia and Carmona. Not having homefield in that series is no problem since the Sox went 3-1 there this season.

brendan

I think we need a left fielder with good speed and OBP as a lead off hitter who can steal bases-then I think we’re set. Lind will develop as a good power hitter, but doesn’t have the speed.

* I meant to say Cleveland would take the long series, leaving ANA/BOS the 5 games in 7 days. That would mean Schill/Beckett would go 4 times and Lackey/Escobar 4 times. That could pose a problem

gsumner,

The Jays have played well but remember they’re playing with absolutely NO PRESSURE ON THEM.

Let’s see how they’ll do when the pressure is on. Admit it, when the pressure has been on them in the past they haven’t done well. When was the last time they made the playoffs?

bosox

Well, they are playing with pressure cause they just took 5 of 7 away from the two teams competing for the AL crown.

They’re also playing without Ryan, Glaus, Overbay, Wells, Chacin, Romero and Marcum

How do you think your sox would perform without Papelbon, Ortis, Manny, Youkalis, Dice-K, and Okijama?

Bosox

No need to answer my question, since we already know how they play without Manny and Youkalis. They get swept by Toronto. lol

Gsumner:What you wrote about the Jays meltdown sounds eerily familiar: The Sox last year. Even with all the players the Sox had out everybody still expected them to end up better than they did. You now know what it is like to have all of your top shelf guys sitting. Not a feeling I’d wish on anyone, well maybe one team.I know that the Jays would have ended up with a much better record than will had they not lost so many of their key personnel.

Without those guys,we would be fried Chicken GSumner.

Every year I keep hearing about how the Jays are one of the most improved teams every year. Every year the result is the same, a team that misses the playoffs.

Injuries are a part of sports. That is how it goes sometimes.

But BoSox they did lose a great deal of guys this year.They probably would win this division if they had all their guys.We struggled for a good while,remember that.

There was absolutely no pressure on the Jays when they played the Sox and Yankees. What is the pressure on the Jays? A team trying to end up with a winning record, now that is pressure.

Jays got off to a poor start and what was the excuse then?

Hopefully Theo makes moves to beef up the offense during the offseason.

Brian actually does make a point there…

Jays dont really have pressure,they just went out and played,we are in the heat of a pennant race.

ellen

It’s likely the reason we finished 2nd last year-you guys had a lot of injuries late in the season (manny) and we got by you.

The Yanks had a lot of injuries to pitchers at the start of the season, but they have the resources/money to fix what’s ailing them-we don’t.

Well last year was your injury yeaar, this year was ours, maybe next year will be the Yanks. If Jieter and A-rod go down-it’d be a lot different team-regardless of their resources

There was no chance of the Jays winning the division in 2007 chman, ZERO CHANCE.

The Jays have missed the playoffs again and that has been the case too often.

Pressure or no pressure, we swept you guys in Toronto and went into NY without 4 of our top bats and split a series with 5 AAA players in the lineup

Hmm well BoSox we were on pace to win 115 games at one point.

if our offense hadnt screwed us up at one point we would have 110+ wins.

gsumner,

What difference did it matter whether the Jays finished ahead of the Red Sox last year. Obviously it didn’t have any carry over effect. Sox got off to a good start while the Jays got off to a poor start again. The Jays keep stumbling out of the blocks every year and if there going to do anything next year, getting off to a good start is a must for them. If they stumble again, they will cruise to .500 again or a little better.

Bosox

Of course there was no chance in 2007. How well do you think you’d have done if Papelbon and Okijama were lost before you played a game?

By the way Bosox, when was the last time the Sox won series back to back?

Bosox-do you care to make a friendly wager on next year?

chman,

Like 115 wins was realistic. Whoever thought that was seriously drinking!!! Not many teams over the years have gotten close to that number.

95 to 97 wins is the number that usually will get you the division title.

cbman

the problem with the boston offence is it’s too dependent on manny.

When he goes out of your lineup you are toast

gsumner,

Let’s talk about now. Stop living in the past. Jays had great teams in the past we know that.

What is the wager gsumner? I can’t wait to read this one.

Michael Kay said that im just repeating,lol.But we woulda had over 100 wins.

For the most part the Yanks went to their “youngsters” and you can’t take away the fact that they got the job done. I don’t even think Clemens contributed as much as the “rooks”.

Okajima was a total unknown when the season started. The Sox had no clue what they were getting. Sometimes you get lucky and the Sox did with Okajima. He was brought in to be Dice K’s buddy and he had a better season than Dice K. Nobody said that Okajima would be the set up guy for Papelbon. If people are saying that now, they’re full of it.

Alright guys,we will see what happens next year.Assuming Theo makes the right offseason moves,the Red Sox will be the top team in the AL East.

But I do beleive the jays will be highly dangerous if they are healthy.

chman,

Whatever Michael Kay says you can run to the bank and bet on it.

Sox as we all know should have won the division about a week ago or so. They should have ended up with 100 but they didn’t.

If the Sox played well in the last month or so they would have won 105 games. If being the key word.

The great Bill Parcells has a great saying, ” You are what you are”…..

Very true….

We could have won even more than 105 if we didnt struggle through June and July like we did.

ALL IN ALL Brian,we can BOTH agree on ONE thing…

And u should know what that is.

Bosox

well, you think we’ll only finish a few games over .500 next year as you posted-so lets assume that means 85 wins. I’ll bet they win over 90.

The bet is dinner at the other’s city at the losers expense.So if I win you fly me to Tampa Bay, pay for dinner and all other expenses.

If I lose I’ll fly you to Toronto and do the same. If you’re a good guy, I might even take you to Stray-Rod’s favorite Toronto establishment. lol

We are THE team of the AL EAST.We could have swept the yankees if it wasnt for our rare bullpen meltdown friday and then some offensive support for the Schill on Sunday’s.I am convinced we can take the championship this year.its up to OUR guys whether they want it or not.Get what I am saying?>

Yankees or Red Sox will be the team to beat in the A.L. East in 2008.

Jays will be picked for 3rd. They’re going to use injuries as there excuse. This just in Glaus never plays a full season and Burnett doesn’t as well.

Glaus will not play more than 140 games and Burnett will not make more than 30 starts.

That is there problem right there, among others.

Gsumner…correction…its A-Fraud

If Theo pushes the right buttons we can top the AL East in 2008

Bosox

this just in-when was the last time manny played 162 games

cbman-agreed-a-Fraud

chamn,

Red Sox could have swept the Yankees but did not. Could have, should have but didn’t do it and that is the bottom line.

Yankees beat the Sox 5 of 6 and won the season series. Amen, that Cashman brought in a strength coach that was hanging out at a country club in West Palm. Yankees came out of the gates slow and the Sox jumped them. Red Sox put themselves in a very good position for the remainder of the season. It was fairly evident that the Sox were making the playoffs in late June.

Alright Sumner.I am glad we could come to the agreement.Put it this way,the battle next year will come down to New York,Toronto,and Boston.

But Brian by seeing how they could have,it makes us more confident in the Sox.They are a powerful team when they put their minds to it.

chman

If all 3 teams are healthy next year, it will be a dog fight between the 3 right until the last day of the season

I totally agree with that Sumner.I never said I did not.It should be interesting to watch.

gsumner,

Ramirez has never played in 162 games in his career. Last September and this month he has disappeared, even though this year it’s legit. Unlike last year, when he quit on the team. Another story for another day on last year’s final month.

My point exactly, he has been injured and the Sox are right there. Injuries are a excuse!!! It is part of the game!!! Always have been and always will be.

Schilling missed a bunch of starts back in 2005 and the Sox made the playoffs. Among other injuries on the team.

bosox

Your’e only there because of the massive lead you guys built up. You still might lose the division which would likey be the largest collapse in baseball history.

If A-Rod was a member of the Jays gsumner and the Jays fans would be thrilled. If A-Rod inked a big $$$ deal with Boston, Sox fans would be thrilled. I don’t care for A-Rod’s antics but the guy is the greatest player I have ever seen.

He will break Hank Aaron’s R.B.I. record. Pass Bonds??? Perhaps pass Pete Rose for most hits. Not too mention all his other numbers!!! He is lethal!!!

Bosox

You should be really concerned about your tream going into the playoffs. You have one really good starter (Beckett), one good old man starter (Shilling) and nothing else.

Wakefiled and Dice-K both appear done and Lester belongs in AAA.

All other teams in the playoffs have significantly better starters than you guys do.

They were all great at the start of the season, but they sure aren’t now.

The Red Sox built that massive lead by playing good baseball. The way you put it as if it was handed to them. The Sox have earned it and the Jays have earned where they are. In sports it is not given to you, you must earn it. Perhaps someday the Jays will earn a playoff berth.

I’m not too happy with the Sox play down the stretch. Lost 2 of 3 from the Yankees and got there lunch handed to them by the Jays. They couldn’t sweep the Devil Rays, not good there. If you lose to the Rays, at least go down fighting. They made that bullpen of the Rays look way too good yesterday.

Bosox

We wouldn’t take A-rod on a bet. One thing, I think the Jays have tried to stand for threw thick and thin is to play the game the right way.

A-Rod is the best player-without question-but you know the baggage he brings.

Bosox

At the start of the season all your starters were great. That’s why you guys built up a lead. Now they’re **** and your record proves that.

Bosox

All I can say is, you’d better hope the night Shilling and Beckett are pitching, the bats show up. Cause it probably won’t matter on the nights they don’t.

The Jays wish they could have A-Rod. Of course they can’t afford him. Only a few teams could, Boston being one of them.

Sox starters were there right from the beginning. Reading what you wrote, you would think they didn’t earn it. Where were these great Toronto arms back in April? How come they didn’t pitch well out of the gate? Oh I forgot, a Toronto team that had all sorts of injuries. In my opinion, it was another Toronto team that stumbled early AGAIN!!!

Bosox

You know for a guy that hasn’t responded to the bet I offered, you do get kind of mouthy.

And yet-you’re not prepared to put your money where your mouth is huh.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Bosox, hey I think your guys did deserve the lead, you came out of the gates better than any one else.

But answer me this, if you do lose the divion to the Yanks, isn’t that the biggest collapse in baseball history?

Bosox

My point in all of this, is you guys have a problem with your starters going into the playoffs. So what are you gonna do about it, in order to win. DUH

alright guys,lets calm down here.

I don’t think it would be the biggest collapse. It certainly would be on the bigger ones but not the biggest. May 29th, Sox up 14.5 games and now they’re holding on for dear life.

I here people compare it to 1978, which is funny to me. When they lost on the Dent homer, there next game was 1979.

1964 Philadelphia Phillies was one of the biggest collapse’s.

I think the 1978 Red Sox was the biggest collapse. 1978 Yankees went on to win the World Series and Boston probably would have if they won the division.

Bosox

One thing i forgot in the last post concerning the bet

ROTFLMAO

lol

gsumner,

Everyone knows the Sox have a problem with there starters right now. Beckett is the ace, Schilling is a solid #2 and the other 2 spots who knows. Dice K will getting one of the starts and who knows what will happen with him. He might pitch a gem or be out by the 5th inning. Okajima is a total mystery right now. He hasn’t pitched since Sept. 14 and is expected back sometime later this week. Wakefield hasn’t pitched well ever since his back. Wakefield is getting up there in age and it takes the body time to heal more now. In 2003 and 2004 my confidence was high for the Sox in October. 2005 not at all and this year it could go either way. They could be done in the 1st rd or the World Series winners. Can’t figure them out.

chman

no worry, neither Bosox or myself take each other all that seriously. I hope it doesnt bother you, because it’s not meant too-right Brian

Well maybe Francona is right to try and rest them and not worry about winning the division

gsumner,

I can’t stand you. Your making me very angry!!!!

LOL………

Just kidding…..

ROFLMAO……

LOL………

I love the Jays they gave the Sox a 2 game lead in the all important loss column….

I think the one, I’d be the most worried about is Wakefield. Man, when that guy is right and put in between Beckett and Shilling, he’s devastating.

I think Boston will find out Dice-K isn’t the starter they thought he was when they signed him.

I do agree with Francona about resting Youklis, Ramirez and Okajima.

The other guys though need to focus on winning the divison and getting home field advantage. Hinkse among others need to step it up. That is why Hinkse among others keep sharp during the year, you never know when your number will be called.

you guys are pretty entertaining arguing about next year. you don’t have any idea what either team will look like. kinda reminds me of a buddy of mine who bets on PRE-season football games. my money ( because they have A LOT more of it ) would be on boston though. despite the fact tito will prob be back. i do app tor’s help this w-end though gsumner.

I dunno-even Papi is dragging his butt and could use a few days off.

Hinske can step it up, the question is whether he’s had enough at bats or not. His September, so far has been dismal. What about Nancy will he come around?

It is too early to say about Dice K

I’ll give my opinion on what they have or don’t have in the next year or so.

At the beginning of the season, I thought he would end up with about 16 wins and have an e.r.a. under 4.00….He isn’t the dominating pitcher they were talking about. I think the expectations on him were ridiculous.

Okajima had more of an impact on the Red Sox than Dice K

Okajima has been AWESOME!!!

When he struck out the Jays in order back in mid April. I was very impressed and I thought they might have hit the jackpot. He is signed for cheap $$$$$$. I had read where another team offered more money to Okajima but he wanted to go to Boston. I always wondered who the other team was.

smckinny

actually at the momemnt we’re discussing how you guys make it past the first playoff round

Bosox

I think you guys need to work Buchholz into the rotation and have him go through the playoffs. That would give you 3 quality starters

Drew has been coming around. He turned on a high fastball Sat. night and drilled for a homer. I haven’t seen that all year. He is certainly showing signs of snapping out of it. I wonder about Drew late in the game. Not too many hits after the 7th inning. He was brought to Boston to be a run producer.

Actually until Okajima exploded, I thought he might be a candidate for the rookie of the year

I wish Bucholtz pitched in the rotation in October. I don’t think it will happen. If it was up to me, no doubt he would be in the rotation.

My vote for Rookie Of The Year would go to Delmon Young, just ahead of Pedroia.

I know all the Sox fans will bash me but Young leads rookies in just about all offensive categories and has a chance to drive in 100 runs. He has one of the best arms in baseball. The kid is a stud!!!

bosox. gotta disagree on a couple of fronts. this would be IMO a larger more disappointing collapse than ’78. in terms of the reg season. true they do get another shot but still no way this team should be in this position. they SHOULD easily have 100+ wins. plus this era is totally diff. also, youk and manny need to play if at all possible. especially manny. you don’t wanna go 2-3 games against the other guys top pitchers trying to get your timing back.

Well you can’t go with Wakefield, Dice-K and Lester and expect to win-it won’t happen-not the way they’re pitching now.

So who else do you have other than Buchholz-Tavarez, not a good choice.

gsumner. that’s easy. win 3 games.

smckinny

I wouldn’t worry about Manny facing anyone; but I also wouldn’t bring him back until he’s ready or you could lose him for the season.

Ramirez will be back later in the week and get his at bats. Smckinny I know it is difficult for you to be a little positive so I expect you to take the sky is fallen attitude as someone wrote before about you.

2007 is different than 1978 because this team will win the division. If they didn’t they turn to post-season. Sox have a 2 game lead in the loss column, be positive smckinny. They the Sox will win the division.

smckinny-that becomes easier if you start Buchholz

actually i think they match up on paper pretty well with cleve and ana. NY is a diff story though. that off is just so lethal MOST nites and boston struggles to consistently score runs even w/ good pitching. as do ana and cleve from time to time. pitching rotation should be beck, schill and dice in the first rd IMO. throw in lester for the second. no wake. too up and down for a short must win series IMO.

You do not want to bring Manny back before. When he is healthy he’ll be ready to go. From what you read it will be sometime this week.

I can see it now, Ramirez plays and re-injures himself. Smckinny you would be the first one on here and rip apart Francona. You can’t have it both ways.

Hey Manny is worth 1.5 runs per game-except when he’s hitting against us-then he’s worth 2 runs a game and make that 3.5 against Halliday.

Manny and Jeiter kill us year after year. Manny has hit more HR’s in Toronto than any other place except Fenway.

Bosox, you can take A-Rod, we’d take Manny in a second.

Cleveland to me will be out in the 1st rd.

Angels will be a tough team to take out.

One thing about the Angels is Lackey gets bombed at Fenway. He doesn’t like Fenway at all, it is in his head. Escobar and Saunders would give Boston trouble, especially Saunders.

smckinny

I’d do it differently. I’d go Beckett, Shilling and Buchholz-particulary against Cleveland who haven’t seem Buchholz yet-it’d get ya a win.

At least with A-Rod he plays a full season all the time. Ramirez hardly ever does. He quit on the Sox last September and is injured again. Even though this time he isn’t dogging it.

It’s Escobar that gets us, he used to play with us and when he pitches at the Rogers center-he is lights out-we haven’t beat him yet.

How Boston is setting up there rotation. Beckett for game 1, Dice K game 2 and Schilling in the all important game 3.

I think that Dice-K’s career path in Boston is going to be similar to Beckett’s transition from the NL to the AL.

In his first year, he’s trying to figure things out but still puts up a solid amount of wins and strikeouts. Next year, hopefully Dice-K will have grown accustomed to the travel, mound, size of the baseball, etc. and more importantly, trust his stuff and his catcher.

If he does that, he can be a very dependable #2 starter, with Buchholz filling in #3 and Lester at #4. That will give our rotation 4 starters under the age of 28 (aka supposedly not yet in their pitching prime), and I’m sure Schilling will not be back while Wakefield will.

I’d still take Manny, although I don’t think I’d want to be as dependent on him as you guys are.

maybe bosox. maybe. unlike you though i don’t count on anything until it’s official. as i recall 6-8 weeks ago when i said IF they didn’t stop playing roughly .500 b-ball they would get caught you said i was crazy. well they haven’t been caught YET but i’ll bet it’s a lot closer than you ever imagined huh? you call it negative i call it reasonable or cautious. or in this case obvious. take away one week and they’re 2 games over .500 for the last 3 mos. & change. they need to finish strong. i.e. NWT 5/1.

I’m out….

Time to watch one of the more exciting teams in the N.F.L.

Saints 30

Titans 19

Vince Young is definetly a guy you root for though. A true definition of a leader.

Zachary

From the outside, it looks to me like you have 1 ace and 3 number 3-4 guys. You are missing a number 2. Now if Wakefield can come back, he’s dynamite-and I’d personally put him at your number 2-not Dice K.

Take care Bosox

Chat again

bosox. no actually i wouldn’t. what i’m saying is IF he’s ready. IF he’s not he shouldn’t play. but given the option i’d rather get some game action b-4 facing cleve or ana’s top 2. it’s not like he’s had a banner year anyway. well not for him. he needs some game AB’s if possible.

I told you they wouldn’t get caught and they haven’t and this just in, NOT HAPPENING!!!

Closer but the facts are the facts!!!

Your view points smckinn always slide to the negative side. That is who you are, you can’t change and you shouldn’t. I disagree but as I have said before, it is always good to have someone like yourself around. You always need 1 dark cloud!!!

Saints can’t fall to 0-3, just like the Eagles and Giants didn’t.

zachary. agree w/you on dice. bosox, so VY is the anti-tek!

bosox. hope you’re right. we’ll see. i consider myself more a voice of reason. enjoy the game.

Not quite the offensive outburst you expected Bosox, but there’s still another half to play and I’d expect some big plays from both VY and Reggie before this thing’s over with.

Gsumner, when the Red Sox rotation has to succumb to slotting in Wakefield at #2 then things are definitely going south for them. No offense to Wake, he’s an innings eater, a class act, and is going into the Red Sox HOF but he is NOT a #2 starter. His knuckleball is way too inconsistent and as dominant as he can be for a stretch of 5-6 games (ie: the 5 games leading up to his injury), he can be just as bad (ie: his last couple of starts).

Dice-K’s numbers in Japan are too good to ignore and if you thought he’d adapt to American baseball in his first season and be a front-end starter, you are incredibly naive.

With that being said, he’s had to time to mature this season and has gotten used to all of the different aspects of MLB so I’d expect to see him around 17-20 wins next year, and I don’t think that’s being unreasonable or overly optimistic.

Zachary

I actually think Dice-K’s numbers will be worse next year. Dice-K enjoyed the biggest hype ever put out by any team on any pitcher. Remember the gyro ball.

I remember the first game he pitched against us, and most of our guys were standing around wondering what a gyro ball was and when he was going to throw it. Fact is never.

Our experience with Dice-K is we faced him 4 times. In the first two meetings we only got 3 runs on him-he won both games. In the next two meetings we scored 11, as our guys realized what he was and what he had.

Other teams like Detroit, Baltimore and others have had the same experience. In the first game he pitched against Detroit he gave up 1 run, the next one 6. With Baltimore it was 1 and 8.

There’s no mystery to Dice-K now and next year he will not win those 6-7 games he won so easily at the start of the year as batters tried to figure him out.

His recent slide is partially weariness, but also the hitters now have his number. As they figured him out his strike out to walk ratio fell through the floor. It went as follows:

April-3.8

May-2.73

June-2.8

July-2.29

August-2.0

September-1.58

For comparision Beckett’s has been pretty consistent all year at around 5.0. For Dice-K it’s not that the strike outs are going down that much-its the walks increasing as the hitters become more familiar to him and aren’t swinging at the breaking ball out of the strike zone. That is not a good sign.

Don’t get me wrong, he will be a solid starter for you, but don’t expect him to be a number 1 or 2 guy and maybe not even number 3.

I still stand by what I posted earlier, in that Wakefield-when he’s right is devastating-particulary when he’s placed between Beckett and another hard thrower or even Shilling.

I would disagree with you about Dice-K gsumner. I think he’ll be much better next year. It is normal for a pitcher’s stats to decline as he sees teams a second and third time. Almost all of his problems this year have been the result of control issues. Put simply, too many walks and pitching from behind. Despite that, he has given up less hits than innings pitched and averages a strikeout per inning. I think this was a huge adjustment year for him and this off season he’ll be able to train for the rigors of the Major League Schedule. I also think it was a huge cultural adjustment. It would not surprise me to see him win 17 or so next year.

I think the big thing he needs to learn is that you don’t need 7 pitches to be successful. If he has command over three or four, with his velocity and ability to change speeds, he’ll be fine. He has good stuff, he just needs to control it.

Wow Bosox, I wanted to say something last night but… New Orleans??? I have a really good friend who is as diehard with Saints as I am with the Sox, and I think even he knew what the outcome would be… Sorry for your loss. Its quite a turn around from last year huh?
Been there done that about 40 times!!!!!

It appears that Francona has set his pitching rotation for the playoffs:
Beckett

Schil

Dice K

Wake (not necessarily in that order)

I believe that there are 2 spots still available in the bull pen. We’ve got to get Bryan Corey in the pen. Corey’s ERA is 0.00, 7.1 innings pitched.

007. hope you’re wrong about wake. he’s just not a good playoff pitcher. in terms of odds and/or past record.

gsumner/zachary. a couple of other notes on dice. he’s had 7 games where he gave up 3 ER’s or less and took an L. he’s had 3 other games where he gave up 2 ER or less and took a no decision. point being that while the last month or so hasn’t been that good with just decent run support he’d have 18-19 w’s and 7-8 L’s and we’d be talking about him as a lock for ROY.

smckinny, I hope I was wrong. I agree with you. I don’t like to see Wake in the playoffs AT ALL. I’d rather see Lester or Buchholz as a 4th starter.

well texas also helped out home field chances last nite by knocking off ana.. need seattle to at least split with clev. 3/4 would be a huge bonus.

My Preferred rotation and pen
Beckett

Schil

Dice K

Buchholz or Lester

Jonathan Papelbon

Okajima

Wakefield

Eric Gagne

Bryan Corey

Manny Delcarmen

Mike Tmlin

can’t really disagree but to your original post i’d be REALLY surprised if wake wasn’t the 4th starter. assuming they need one. pleasantly so but schocked nonetheless.

ellen,

Saints have dug themselves a hole the size of the Grand Canyon. You can’t start the season 0-3. The Saints are feeling the pressure and expectations. I’m not a Saints fan, I just like watching them play. One of the few exciting teams in the N.F.L., except this year, BORING!!!

Good point smckinny, I can think of two games off of the top of my head which should have Dice-K at a minimum of 16 wins right now: against Baltimore he threw 7 innings and gave up an ER. Gagne promptly entered in the 8th inning and blew the lead. The second one which comes to mind is the 6-1 lead on the Yankees where the bullpen fell apart in the 8th inning more recently.

I know that letdowns by the bullpen are a part of baseball, but to have the best bullpen in MLB blow two big leads in the 8th inning is just plain bad luck.

I would rather see Lester in the #4 slot as opposed to Wakefield, then again I would not want to see Wake come out of the bullpen with Varitek catching him late in a game. The only time when that would be acceptable would be when we need innings to be eaten (ie: Game 3 of the ALCS, 19-8 victory by the Yankees). And I don’t want to be on the opposite end of that score again.

I think having Wake in the playoffs roster is a waste. I’d rather give the spot to Tavarez. It ain’t gonna happen because of Wake’s long term committment with the Sox.

Anyone know what the magic number for clinching the division is?

5

007. i would actually bet tavares will be on the roster in place of corey on your list. even though corey has been very good in ltd action. i got a feeling that the loyalty factor will come in with julian and he is a lil more versatile probably.

It’s a shame to see Corey miss the roster. Ideally I like Tavarez to be the long man. Corey pitches in the 7th, Oki and Gagne the 8th. Wake is a nice person but in the playoffs, I bet you 2 out of 3 batters would get a walk just holding the bat in box.

007 chow, no offense or anything but what is your obsession with Bryan Corey? He has thrown 7 innings all season yet you have been continually calling for him to become the 7th inning guy. What about Delcarmen? And Timlin?

I think it is imperative that Tavarez be on the postseason roster (and he will be) because he will become a very valuable guy in games which go to extra innings.

Plus we need somebody to keep Manny entertained on the bench.

I’m guessing Tavarez will be on the roster, just on experience alone. If you had to go on what he has done lately, I would say no. As long as Snyder and Lopez are not on it, I’m fine with anyone else. Those 2 have pitched very poorly as of late and my confidence in them is long gone, just like the gopher balls they have been serving up.

I’d say this is very good news for Red Sox Fans. This was posted on the NY Blog

Roger Clemens has been scratched. Kei Igawa will pitch tonight instead. More details later but you would have to assume this is more precaution regarding the left hamstring. Clemens won’t pitch in this series but the Yankees have talked about wanting him to have at least one more appearance, even if it’s just a few innings. That has Oriole Park at Camden Yards written all over it.

What Corey impressed me is his ability to strand runners in his limited appearances. I am not saying Corey is the only 7th inning guy. I’d like to see Delcarman & Timlin start an innings. With runner(s) on I think Corey has better chance to prevent the runner(s) from scoring. We shall see, mostly likely we won’t see.
My point is I’d like to have Tavarez and Corey both in the pen.

Great news on Kei Igawa tonight. He is one of the worst pitchers in all of baseball. Only problem is the Rays guy is just as bad. This should be a slugfest… hopefully the tired Yanks will take the brunt of it.

Our magic number is 5, but it would have been 2 if we just held on to the meltdown against the Yanks last week. A tie would have given us the edge if we won just one more. Now the Yanks have the edge.

Igawa pitched well against the Sox in the game of the week on Fox many months ago. But it was then.
Glad to see Manny back in the lineup tonight!!

Manny is back? It’s a miracle!

Speaking of Manny, my 3-year old son went up to a guy at the store yesterday and asked if he was Manny (had long hair like Manny).. Given he was out of the lineup for so long, I had to make sure he wasn’t.

I just realized the lame excuse that the Sox have been using for keeping Manny out for so long… he can swing OK, just can’t run. Everyone knows Manny never runs out of the box anyway… if anything, the lack of running will help… he won’t try to take an extra base at the worst time.

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