Schill can swing the series

Last night’s romp is over with. Nobody should read too much into one game. Unlike last series, this is best-of-seven. A seven-game series is an eternity and one game really means next to nothing.

Unless …. Unless … Unless, of course, Schilling makes it mean something. Tonight’s game is huge. I can not overstate the importance of it. Tonight we find out how competitive a series we are going to have. I think that if the Red Sox win tonight and go up 2-0, they’ll be licking their chops at the prospects of Westbrook and Byrd the next two games.

But if the Indians can ride Carmona to victory, suddenly the series is tied and the Red Sox have a recently wobbly Dice-K and a recovering Wakefield pitching the next two games, where there are clearly no certainties.

That said, the series could not have gotten off to a better start for the Red Sox. Beckett continues to be Man on Mission. Manny and Ortiz, to steal a tremendous line from Dan Shaughnessy in this morning’s Globe, really do look like high school seniors playing in the Little League World Series. Ortiz has made two outs in four games in these playoffs. That is SICK.

But things can change in a heartbeat in October. 2004 ALCS, anyone? I think the Indians are a very good team. They just brought nothing to the table last night. Let’s see what tonight brings.

There’s no reason to think Schilling won’t come through again. But Carmona can be downright nasty. Schilling’s press conference yesterday was pretty good. He was obviously going out of his way to toss verbal bouquets in Carmona’s direction. The man obviously is trying to soften his opponent. Will it work?

Lineups for tonight:

Sox
Pedroia 2B
Youkilis 1B
Ortiz DH
Ramirez LF
Lowell 3B
Drew RF
Varitek C
Crisp CF
Lugo SS

Schilling SP

Indians
Sizemore CF
Cabrera 2B
Hafner DH
Martinez C
Garko 1B
Peralta SS
Lofton LF
Gutierrez RF
Blake 3B

Carmona SP

Ian.

P.S. — Youkilis is blogging again this round. Check it out.

248 Comments

Sinker ball pitchers like Carmona have a tendency to be up in the zone when having too much rest. That could be the case tonight, especially early in the game. Carmona last pitched 8 days ago, a gem against the Yankees. If he is on, there will be alot of groundball outs. Francona might have some guys in motion to stay out of the double play if Carmona is on. Plate discipline was the key last night vs Sabathia and if Carmona is not on, that will be the key tonight.

I think we all expect Schilling to pitch well tonight. He rises in October as we all know. He just knows how to pitch and execute. As he said last week he is a sniper. Very well put by Schilling, who could disagree. Pinpoint control is his key tonight.

When your facing a team with little playoff experience, jump them early and get themselves to press and make mistakes. Keep the pressure on the Tribe early and often!!!

Same lineups as last night except for J.D. Kinda surprised Trot isn’t out there with the way Gutierrez muffed some of those balls. Trot’s back must really be barking. I wouldn’t read into Carmona being very rested thus ineffective. He had 8 days rest between his final start on 9/26 and that stellar performance against the Yanks.
I have this gut feeling that Carmona will be lights out tonight. If the Sox want to win this one Schill needs to be effective, the bats need to get Carmona’s pitch count up and then win in the last 3 innings with the bullpen.

I would hate to see the Rockies in the WS if the Sox make it that far. They are on fire right now and not much is going to slow them down. Meanwhile the D-Backs are the exact opposite. In basketball last year many people said the Cavs may have been the worst finals team ever, I believe that D-Backs would be the worst World Series team ever. I mean have you seen their roster? Their number 2 starter (Davis) would not even make the Sox starting 5 and they have Ojeda and Tony Clark on the right side of the infield. If they somehow come back against COL that would be a cakewalk World Series.

i might regret saying it but IF boston beats cleve i don’t think playing colo would be a bad thing. percentages have got to catch up with them at some point although i don’t think they will against az. assuming they sweep, which seems inevitable, that would be what 21 out of 22? they have to have a lil down tick soon. plus i don’t have nay doubt that the sox staff is much better than philly’s or az’s.

gsm/rayman. seeing as tito called coco the “best center fielder he’s ever seen” not too long ago i seriously doubt ellsbury will be doing anything other than pinch running. guess he would disagree with ian as well on grady being the “best player in baseball”. now you/we can certainly argue the merits of that statement. it was probably just a motivational thing. but we all know how loyal he is. especially to the guys he really likes.

smckinny–You are correct in what Francona said and that is the reason why Crisp will be in the lineup. Crisp has a great jump and anticipates so well out there. Ellsbury’s role so far in the playoffs is pinch runner and a defensive replacement for Ramirez. I don’t have a problem right now with that. If the Sox were having problems scoring and were down in a series you might see Ellsbury in the lineup but until then it will be the way it is right now. Obviously during the winter Crisp will be dealt, let’s hope Boston wins it all and Boston would probably get a little more for Cocco.

Huge game tonight, can’t wait for the first pitch.

Rockies look like they’ll be the N.L. team. Devastating loss for the D-Backs last night/this a.m.

Where is our pal Vince?

Are you getting ready for Heat basketball?

Duke basketball?

Gator game next week against Kentucky?

I assume you are studying hard for your tests next week. LOL….

I agree smckinny, I doubt seriously Tito would bench Coco right now unless he was so horrible he was really hurting things, which he isn’t. The Sox are lucky to have such an alternative though.

Colorado is hot, but they play in the minor leagues. We’ll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Alright I will give Colorado Credit.I think they would give us a hard time if we play them in the World Series.I do know we have enough depth in our pitching to beat them.Our guys have been hot in the play offs.We just beat down one of the top pitchers in baseball just last night.I am very confident that we will take the World Series this year.I am sure our bull pen will NOT fall to the Rockies either.Our starters will be strong.I guarantee you we will previal if we face them.And well,actually Brian…I think Vince is out buying an Indians hat.Remember a lot kids in my school now converted to Indians fans.Some are just pulling for Cleveland cuz they hate us,lol.Lets go Sox!

For some reason some of you aren’t given the Rockies any respect. Remember back in June they came to Fenway and beat Boston 2 out of 3. Beckett had his worst start of the season against the Rockies. They remind me of the Marlins back in 2003, everyone including me thought whoever won the A.L.C.S. that year would beat the Marlins for sure. It didn’t work that way as we know.

Oritz and Ramirez are on FIRE and this dynamic duo is locked in at the right time.

chman,

I hope those Yankee fans become Tribe fans. Who wants Yankee fans pulling for the Red Sox?

I wish Kevin Kennedy would just go away!!!

I thought Wedge would put our old friend Trot Nixon in r.f. tonight. I thought Guitterez looked a little tenative out there. He seems a little intimidated out there, tip toeing towards the line on Lowell’s hit in the 3rd inning last night. A very tough r.f. at Fenway as we know, the toughest in the league. I can sense Guiterrez making a poor play out there.

James Taylor go back to Key West and hang out at Margaritaville.

I don’t know what is worse, Taylor announcing the lineups or his singing?

WOW, was he AWFUL!!!

No runs, but Carmona threw a lot of pitches. Not a bad inning. Bad call on strike 2 to Manny. I don’t think umpires know how much damage they do to an “at bat” when they make a call like that.

I agree on the bad call gsm, that changed the whole complexion of the at-bat for Manny, swinging on a ball on the third pitch put him at 1-2 and Carmona had room to manuever. Manny then grounds into a double play and the announcers keep repeating what they said about Carmona and how great he is getting batters to ground out into double plays.

All the bad calls even out thru the game.

Indians are making Schilling work.

I would agree with you gsm about Carmona in the 1st inning. He did throw alot of pitches. Carmona pitched Oritz carefully, he remembers last year.

Nice DP to end the first. You’re right Brian, Schill is working hard and the Indians are having some good rips at him. They are laying off his pitches out of the strike zone.

Carmona is on tonight. This one looks like to be the game we expected last night but didn’t get.

I thought with the extra rest that Carmona would be up in the zone early and the Sox could get some good wood early. Apparentlt not!!!

I do like Drew’s approach tonight. His approach against the Angels was bad. He swung very early in the count, which is not his strength. Drew as we know likes to work the count.

Schilling got a much needed lift with the double play.

Apparently I don’t know how to spell.

Tek with some good wood!!!

Looks like if Carmona gets over 95 he has problems with the strike zone. Under 95 he’s throwing strikes, but the Sox had some good swings. But you’re right Brian, this has the makings of a 3-2 game if Schill keeps pitching.

Nice easy inning for Schill. Time to get some of that speed on base and get it moving.

I don’t like the idea of Lugo bunting. Let Crisp steal second. Martinez is in the lineup because he is a great hitter!!!

McCarver thought Lugo could/should be bunting.

gsm,

It definetly looks like one of those 1 run games. Doing the little things are HUGE!!

Boston is making Carmona work in this game. Second time around and third time around the order will be different.

Who in the world is staying up to watch the N.L.C.S.?

Half the country is watching.

Pedroia in the playoffs is struggling at the plate.
Time to snap out of it kid!!!

If you walk too many guys at Fenway, you are going to get hurt. Carmona is walking the tightrope.

The Sox have to start making Carmona pay for these walks. All Lugo had to do was put the ball into play to the right side.

Lugo usually is pretty good shooting it the other way. A strikeout there was not good. I agree gsm, Sox need to cash in on those walks.

Carmona has some nasty stuff going inside. Carmona right now owns the inside part of the plate and that will open up the outside.

Buck mentioned Mo Vaughn. He certainly didn’t do well in the 95 playoffs against the Tribe. I don’t think Mo got a ball out of the infield and neither did Canseco.

Zane Smith where are you know?

Let’s go Manny, make them pay now!!!

Sox have to lay off that low inside pitch.

I agree with you gsm. Even if you hit that pitch, your going to pound it in the ground.

Green Light for Manny with 3-0?

Mikey had a good rip!

If the Sox get production from the bottom of the order, they are going to be very difficult to beat. Crisp with the leadoff single and steals second. Way to go Crisp!!! Nice too see.

Let’s hope this long inning doesn’t effect Schilling.

Lowell going the other way, how sweet it is!!! Behind in the count, NICE!!!

MIKEY ‘FREAKIN” LOWELL

Carmona is on the ropes!!!

The way he is going, he will not get past the 5th inning!!!

Great inning, Carmona paid for his walks.

MIKEY LOWELL, VIP!!!!!!!!!!!

HAHAHAHA, I meant MVP!!!!!

That’s OK goofball, Mikey’s a VIP for sure.

Lowell no longer a pull hitter.

Sox took out Lackey, Escobar, Sabathia. They made some good pitchers look very average. Carmona’s time is winding down here tonight. Great approach by the Boston hitters.

Magadan took alot of heat during the year. Give him some credit here.

How Lowell punched that out to r.f. is beyond me. A nasty pitch down and in. A great piece of hitting by Lowell.

Schill has to stay away from the long ball.

Lugo was very flat footed on that ground ball up the middle. He got no jump on it at all.

Hate to say I said so, but I said so.

Perhaps that long inning effected Schilling. The Tribe showed alot there with the big bomb by Peralta. Peralta is swinging a good stick in October. His defense is average at best!!

He made a bad pitch to Hafner and got away with it. That’s OK, he’s throwing OK. Sox just need to keep punishing Carmona, although if he gets in trouble again, I’m not sure he’ll stay around long.

Tek strikes out on Ball 3 and Ball 4.

schill should pitch 1 more if he can get through it. they HAVE to start getting some production from 6-9. it’s gonna kill em eventually if they don’t.

Carmona’s time is coming to an end.

I would agree there smckinny, production from 6-9 is needed. Drew had a chance to keep mo going and drive in a run and didn’t.

Schilling to make it thru the 6th.

Why wasn’t Lugo running?

I don’t understand that as well gsm. Lugo should have been running very early in the count. Maritnez is a below average catcher, he is there because of his big bat. They say Martinez is getting better behind the plate, can he get any worse? He can only get better. I heard someone say Drew will hit better next year, I hope so.

Wedge is playing this 5th inning like the 8th. Wasting his best lefty.

Ramirez NEVER amazes me. That ball was smoked.

Ramirez did get a good swing before the homer.

Wedge’s moves aren’t paying off.

Lowell you are the man!!!!

When was the last time the Sox went back to back in the playoffs? Have they, I can’t remember.

Great point by Joe Buck, Ortiz busting his tail down the line!!!

bosox. b-ball’s poster boy for rally killin comin up! you know it a DP.

was there ever a doubt?

you couldn’t be that bad if you tried. bless his heart. he is just awful with MOB. i feel for him. he simply cannot do anything. you know it’s in his head at this point.

I can’t believe DelCarmen starts the inning with a walk. Didn’t he learn anything tonight?

So much for the 3-2 game.

don’t agree with this at all. no reason to bring oki in until sizemore bats. i hope they got a few more runs in em. hey’re obviously gonna need em.

It might be a 1 run game, 10-9. lol…

These pens are not doing the job. I think Boston is in better shape. Cleveland’s best lefty is gone. Wedge managed the 5th as if it was the 8th, a mistake for sure.

55% of the time, a leadoff walk scores. Delcarmen pitched to Peralta as if he was Babe Ruth.

Varitek is certainly not coming thru with guys on base. He seems to be pressing, good hard slide by Drew. I never thought he was capable of that. Way to go J.D.

This could be a night where Papelbon pitches 2 innings.

In defense of Tek, it was a hit and run, and he did hit the ball hard.

F’n pitchers have GOT to throw strikes.

What is Lugo thinking about?

Lugo also thought he had a chance at getting Peralta at home. Almost cost him, barely got the guy out at first.

Lugo should have been thinking second base all the way. You have to be smart out there, know what to do when the ball is hit to you.

Crisp smoked that one, tough place to hit one out there. Just ask Joe Morgan? Not the same spot but close.

I wonder who comes out of the pen for the Sox in the 8th. Okajima needs to throw strikes and get through this inning. Not a good start with 2 balls.

bottom line is boston is, offensively, basically playin 5 against 7-8 at this point. i don’t get a good feelin from oki right now.

timlin needs to be in the game. let gagne and/or pap sort through 8/9.

Heart of the order coming up for the Sox in the 7th. This all lines up well for the Sox.

Okajima is money. He pitched very well tonight.

Get a run or two across and the Sox will take there chances with Papelbon.

Youklis leading off, let’s get it done ” Greek God Of Walks”….Even though he isn’t greek…

The shift worked perfectly there.

Ramirez is up, Cleveland is shaking!!!

Ortiz gets about 1/4 inch more under that line drive and it goes 500 feet.

as forecasted it comes down to clutch hitting. the sox need the bottom 4 to come up big tonite for sure. well timlin pitching well here would help also.

Timlin looking sharp…

Dusty Baker in Cinn…Good hire, they needed a big name there…

Let’s hope Arroyo gets back on track there. One of my favorite players is Arroyo. I wish he was still in Boston.

Time for a run or two…

Varitek goes deep into the night!!!

The guy in the stands drops the ball and he acts if he caught it.

Nasty pitch…Lowell hung in there!!!

Drew couldn’t get a hit in the 9th to save his life.

I would love too see his avg. in the 9th?

Pretty bad I am sure!!

If papelbon could throw that off speed splitter for a strike, he’d screw this guy into the ground.

I hate that. As good as Pap is, he’s incomplete if he can’t at least make an effort to hold runners on and speed up his motion. That’s horrible.

I wonder if Pap is on a specific pitch count for tonight’s game. I know he’s well rested and the game is on the line but that cold temperature is vicious.

I’m guessing about 30-35 pitches.

I mean, given his problems in the past.

Time for the bottom 2 speed demons to get something going here. 1 run and the Sox take a commanding 2-0 lead in the series.

Bettancourt looking very sharp tonight, Lewis as well. The other guys in that pen are not that good.

Nice play by Lowell to end the 9th. Not many better than him down there at third.

After McCarver mentioned that Youkalis had an 11 pitch at bat, I’m wondering: what is the higest pitch count in ML history for a single at bat?

Smckinny – part of me is convinced that you want to see this team fail.

Exhibit A: Manny Ramirez and Mike Lowell hit back to back home runs. Imagine that – back to back home runs in the playoffs!! Your post right after that? Varitek not getting a hit.

It will be interesting to see if Gagne is brought in. Not much faith there right now.

Well, here’s Gagne’s chance to do something huge. It was a matter of time before he had to be put in this position.

If Gagne gets out of this inning unscathed, the next miracle will occur: JD walks off with the win.

That’s a huge first “if” though.

brendan. that comment doesn’t really deserve a comment. but tek had ANOTHER chance to keep an inning going and what happened? hope eric can redeem himself here and then guess who gets another cahnce to come through. not JUST tek but 6-9.

This looks grim. I don’t like the Lopez – Nixon matchup. He’s better not get behind Nixon.

Smckinny – innings come to an end at some point. It is inevitable. That was a great inning for us. Be happy.

i hope those draft picks from the gagne deal work out because OBVIOUSLY the trade itself isn’t/didn’t. what a choke job.

brendan. why do they usually come to an end wih tek at bat would be my question.

effin Gange? effin Gange?

*** was Tito thinking.

Nice Job by Gagne and Lopez. How horrible was that?

Well, let’s see if Lester walks the ball park.

night folks. thanks eric.

I know Borowoski is BAD but I don’t know if he’s this bad, especially with the weak part of our lineup coming up.

What a freakin joke! But when Pap was done you could see it coming.

o my freaken goodness!I cant beleive this ****!I HATE GAGNE.Now cuz of Gagne,all the momentum in this series will shift to Cleveland.I will admit it,I do NOT trust Dice K that much out in Cleveland.I do not trust Wakefield after the back injury he had.If we fall 2 – 1 we will NEED to pitch Josh Beckett in Game 4.I was hoping we would win game 2 to have a comfy 2-0 lead with Dice K pitching in Cleveland.I hate this guy so much.Gagne omg someone chuck a freaken bat at him!

Delcarmen was an idiot too.If he hadnt choked in the 6th inning,this game would have been long finished and we would have had that nice 2-0 cushion.

THis is all embarassing

Well I guess now we know that we can’t play extra innings anymore, our bullpen gets real bad real fast.

I still like Dice-K over Jake Westbrook for Game 3. And count me in on having Beckett taking the ball in Game 4. Obviously the two Cleveland aces are not invincible anymore so Game 3 is going to be huge for either team.

I think the winner of game 3 will go on to win the Series.

We need to ditch Gagne this offseason.

We can score 6 runs off of Westbrook.I only fear Dice K giving back 7 or 8.

even if we win game 3 i still say dont take risks…run Beckett out there Game 4.Beckett can do it,hes young.Now a guy like Schill I probably dont run on 3 days rest no matter how effective he pitches but Beckett is young enough.We cannot give this Indians team anything to go crazy about.We need to pound them down and make it difficult for them.Win games 3 and 4 and put them in a 3-1 deficit.

Boston would have been fine in extra innings if ‘Big Game Curt’ actually got it done and pitched well – which he didn’t. I blame this loss on Schilling. This game never would have got to an extra innings situation if Big Game Curt didn’t turn into a Big Game Joke. (But at least he’s admitting that in his post game conference.)

Way to go Curt, you ***.

We all know Gange is a chump. But Curt was the real let down tonight.

And all that nice stuff I said about Terry? I take it back. All of it.

Golden God? How about bronze chump.

Grrr!

I couldn’t take it… Played a little “reverse psychology” ; went to bed during the 8-6 part of the 9th. Thought maybe if I’m not watching, a miracle will occur and we’ll win this. What a pathetic showing of relief pitching. No names are necessary. BAD DREAM…..

Well, I did say Cleveland has an advantage in mid relief; that was clear last night.

This series will now likely go as Boston’s starters go. If they go deep, in order to get to Okijama and Papelbon Boston will win.

If the starters go like Shilling, Boston will lose.

When Gagne came in, we all knew he was going to give it up. I was amazed when he struck out Blake to start the inning, fools gold for sure.

I was amazed that Sizemore didn’t hit a homer off of Gagne. I stayed up until 1:45 a.m. Thank You Eric Gagne!!!

When the Sox had there trio coming up, I was thinking this is where the Sox have to win it. They went down very easy. All the Tribe wanted to do was get past Papelbon and they did.

I think either Tavarez or Corey should be taken Gagne’s roster spot anyway. Even before this morning’s debacle.

What was Lopez thinking on the ball hit up the middle. He could have made that play but he took his glove away. DUMB!!! DUMB!!! Then again even if he made that play, the Sox still were going to lose.

Dice K was brought to Boston to win big games, none bigger than this one right now. Posting fee of 51.1 million and all the perks he got. Flying from Newport Beach to Boston in December of last year with time winding down, a physical had to get done. That whole circus last December, that is why they got him. He hasn’t delivered yet. Yet I say is the key word. Dice K has a chance to dominate or be out by the 5th. Which one will show up?

What is this “Big Game Curt” stuff? (“Big Mouth Curt” is more accurate.) Schilling had a great 2001 post-season — but that was a long time ago. He was nothing special in the 2004 post-season — the Yankees hit him well, despite all the bloody sock nonsense. This year, he had a good start against a poor-hitting team and got worked yesterday. He’s finished, at least when it comes to patient teams that know how to hit. No chance the Red Sox re-sign him.

Get ready for some late nights — given the starting pitchers in the next 2 games for both teams, we’ll have some football-score games.

hailey,

Obviously you let your personal feelings get in way when you talk about Schilling. Don’t let that cloud your judgement.

You wrote he was nothing special in 2004 post-season. Where were you during the 2004 post-season? Game 1 of the A.L.C.S. he got lit up. Other than that he was stellar in the playoffs. Call it the way you see it, don’t let your personal feelings get in the way. Did he get roughed up last night, of course he did. He’ll have to face the Tribe again in this series and chances are he’ll do much better. Guys like him embrace the challenge. That is why he is so successful and a hall of famer, Cooperstown bound eventually.

I’m glad Gagne pitched well last night…definitely the worst transaction the Sox could have made…

Also, why was Fenway so freakin quiet?? They were quiet when Youk was up with Jacoby on 2nd — the WINNING run. I couldn’t believe the silence. First I thought Fox was just ******* with their audio, but when they showed the crowd, no one was standing..or clapping. Like they knew it was over. I don’t understand…anyone else notice that??

Pitchers with career era.’s of 3.46, 216 career wins and no Cy Young awards do not get into the HOF.

All Shilling has been throughout his career is a good number two guy.

He’ll never make the Hall.

Will he come back next game-I think so.

IMO 2 things were the main factors last nite. 1) shill was just way off. every mistake he made was grooved right down the middle. 2) hate to keep harping on it but it’s a fact. the bottom of the order ( 6-9). it’s been less than stellar all year. all post season. and last nite it caught up with them. on the the bright side. schill was hitting 90/91 on the gun so he obviously feels good. i would exepct next game he’ll be much sharper.

as for the bottom of the order he’s ( tito ) obviously not gonna change anything so i guess you just hope the top can stay hot and you get better pitching.

Holy **** the sky is falling the sky is falling!!!!!!!!

The Sox were bound to lose one game, what do you people expect an 11-0 run through the playoffs? While that would be nice and painless it is terribly unrealistic.

Gagne had to pitch last night. It was him, or Lopez b/c Lester was being saved for the very late innings. The way he pitched Blake was vintage Gagne. Then a fastball right down the middle to Sizemore which I didn’t mind. His problem started when their worst hitter Cabrera walked b/c he was so **** preoccupied with Sizemore. He ended up on 2nd anyway Eric, so just throw good pitches to the hitter and that runner means nothing.

Anyway we all talk about Dice and Wake being question marks, but why don’t any of you mention Cleveland’s starters? Who the **** are Westbrook and Byrd?? They sure ain’t CC and Carmona who the Sox lit up fine. If Boston’s starters give up 5 or 6 in 7 innings then Boston will win no doubt about it. Keep the Indians in single digits and the Sox will at least split the first two and earn a trip back to Fenway.

Again all losses hurt but anyone that expected to go perfect through the postseason should have their head examined.

Agreed rizzo, especially your point concerning Cleveland’s 3+4 guys. Everybody is acting like they are postseason studs. If Paul Byrd throws the same junk he threw at the Yankees, I suspect we should light him up pretty good.

It’s pretty ignorant to completely dismiss everything Schilling’s done in the postseason because of one game. And he didn’t “just” have one good postseason, he was a monster in 1993 with the Phillies, the co-MVP in the 2001 World Series, and gutted his way through three wins in the 2004 post season.

Gsumer, you say he’ll “never” make the Hall of Fame? Using the term “never” when referring to the Hall of Fame should be reserved for people like Gustavo Chacin, I’d say Schilling’s got a decent chance if he can get himself another ring and solidify his status as one of the best postseason pitchers ever. And then if he goes out next year (wherever that may be) and gets his total up to 230 career wins, I’d say he will be well on his way to Cooperstown.

Our boy Gagne wasn’t even available after the game for comment, he left the clubhouse.

I gotta tell you, ever since Gagne starred in “Knocked Up” he just hasn’t been the same pitcher.

Remember this guy gsumner, was the guy telling all of us that Burnett was a better pitcher than Beckett. Anyone that tells me that, is someone that knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!

Will Schilling get in on the first ballot, I doubt it but he will get in. Of course Blyleven and Jack Morris ( Morris the best big game pitcher in my lifetime ) should be in as well. Goose Gossage as well. Schilling pitched during the hitters era. Juan Marichal is in the hall of fame and has never won a Cy Young and won 243 games for his Hall Of Fame career.

Anyone that would use the word “never” that speaks volumes right there, agree with you zacahry. Some people don’t like Schilling personally and they hold grudges against the guy. He gives his opinions, unlike most athletes. Everyone gets irritated when an athlete speaks cliche’s but when they give there honest opinion fans get mad. This just in, you can’t have it both ways.

With Westbrook and Byrd going the next 2 games, I like the Sox chances. Make those guys work and don’t swing early, those 2 do not have an out pitch. Yankees swung very early against Byrd and I don’t know why. If your behind in the count against a guy like Westbrook or Byrd, your still in control at the plate. They will not blow you away, they’re not that kind of pitcher. Plate discipline is the key and the Sox have that as we all know.

Dice K must come up big, 51.1 million dollar posting fee. Time to earn it Dice K.

i don’t think you can be too displeased in a split with CC and carmona BUT if there was ever going to be a time you would sweep those 2 it was last nite. 6 against carmona and perez MOST nites would get it done. i think bostons 3/4 starters are much better but i’ll be absolutely shocked if we don’t see beck vs. CC again in game 4 now. especially when they’d pitch 7 on normal rest. wedge MIGHT not because CC has thrown so many inn’s this year and has been off in the post season. no way beck shouldn’t go though. he has to rem how bad wake looked when he came back after having missed a couple of weeks late in the year. plus wake has a terrible playoff record even when he is healthy.

I think the biggest thing when pitchers go on 3 days rest is can they do it? It is more of a mental battle than anything. Beckett proved he can do it, of course it was 4 years ago in the World Series. I really believe the mental hurdle is the biggest thing. Your going on andrenaline, physically Beckett will be just fine. He has done it in the past and that to me is HUGE!!!

bosox. IMO your approach against byrd depends on whether your comfy hitting with 2 strikes or not. he has the lowest walk per 9 inn ratio in baseball i think. something like 1 i believe. i think the yankees, just like the sox, knew they would get very hittable balls early and tried to knock him out vs trying to tire him out. personally i agree with that approach if you’re swinging the bat well. the yankees weren’t.

plus beck only threw 80 pitches the other nite. it’s a no brainer i think. he had to have been thinking it when he pulled him after 6. at least i hope it was in the back of his mind. if boston had won the first 3 MAYBE you give a wake a shot. but now it would be a totally unnecessary risk. beck may get beat. but the odds are alot better with him on 3 days than wake on 3 weeks.

If your not comfortable hitting against Paul Byrd with 2 strikes, you shouldn’t be in the big leagues. If Beckett, Sabathia or Carmona has 2 strikes against you, different story. Byrd, guys like him usually get smoked in the playoffs. Power pitchers win in October!!!

I think when facing a guy like Byrd, you need to be very relaxed. You can’t go up there with white knuckles. He constantly pitches out of the stretch and runners are on base all night. To me that spells trouble for Byrd. At least with Westbrook, he can get a groundball and get a double play. Byrd with guys on base, it could be a 3 run homer. Scoring the next 2 games will not be the issue.

Why walk against Byrd when you can smoke one in the gap. His innings to hit ratio is the worst of anyone to take the mound in October. The guy puts it on a platter for you. If Byrd gets past the 5th inning I will be very surprised!!!

Hello all – Am I the only one who heard one of the commentators say last nite that Beckett was removed after 80 pitches in game 1 since he “felt tight”? Like he may may have pulled something…

Joe Buck mentioned that last night. Obviously not a concern because you don’t here too much talk about it.

If it was a big thing with a Beckett injury, the Boston press would be all over it.

Today is Beckett’s day to throw so we’ll see what happens at Jacobs Field today.

I was thinking that too. But I worry about them keeping that from the media.

i don’t disagree with you at all about post season pitching. another reason wake should never see the field. but as for byrd he’s gonna go 6 inn’s max anyway. so why not try to pound him early? and get him out of the game early. i think you have to work pitch counts and make power pitchers work because they expend so much more energy. byrd can stand there all nite and get the ball over if you let him. try and pound him early and make him start trying to hit corners even more would be my approach. get him out of his comfort zone and that usually leads to more mistakes.

Byrd tends to throw it right down the middle. He makes alot of mistakes during the game. I think swinging early in the count means your playing in his hands. Of course there are times when you go up hacking on the first pitch, pick your spots I say.

As I wrote earlier, scoring runs in the next 2 games will not be the issue. Westbrook and Byrd will combine for 10 innings pitched.

Shapiro didn’t pick up a starting pitcher during the deadline and I think that will come back and haunt him.

If Terry Francona and Theo Epstein have cajones, they will replace Gagne with Bryan Corey if the Sox advance to the World Series. Gagne has proved time and time again that he is not the pitcher he once was. He cannot handle the pressure. At least Corey would be effective in a mop-up role at the back of the bullpen. Of course, Lopez can only get left-handed hitters out, yet Francona continues to use him as a left-handed specialist.

I still like the Sox chances to win this series, but I have zero confidence in Gagne or Lopez. I think Lester just had a bad outing, but he is more reliable the aforementioned options. Hopefully, Dice-K can deliver so Francona is not forced to use Gagne or Lopez.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

I meant that Lopez can only get right-handed hitters out….

I think Francona and Epstein both have the guts. If the Sox beat the Tribe ( I still think they will ) Lopez and Gagne to be replaced by Tavarez and Corey. Corey proved he can get the job done and Tavarez has playoff experiece and is a ground ball pithcer, which is a good thing in the playoffs. Gagne and Lopez can go bowling together. At least with Gagne the Sox will get a pick from him, the front office does a good job with there draft choices. Bucholtz with the Martinez signing and Bard with the Yankees signing Damon.

Lopez went after that groundball initially but pulled his glove back. If there is a groundball back to you and you have a chance to make the play, you try to make the play. Lopez has burned my bridge long ago.

Have Gagne play for the Bruins, they need his help, of course they need more than that.

I wonder if Buclhotz could have helped last night. Oh I forgot, he has shoulder fatigue. Some of the stuff that the Sox do I wonder about and that was one of them. There descions have been good but not that one. If there prized prospect had shoulder fatigue the front office would be very concerned and you would hear about it thru the press, wispers.

Pats 33

Cowboys 23

Has anyone else ever noticed how many times in the RedSox history that they have let a player go either by way of trade or free agency and that player comes back to bite us right in the butt??
Game 1, I was kind of disappointed not to see Trot in the line up, not horribly, just kind of. Last night for some reason I was relieved not to see him there. I even said as much to my husband, adding that I was afraid if he was in there something horrible would happen.

I was absolutely crushed when Trot drove in the go-ahead, later to be, game winning run. You know it’s sort of like when you break up with someone, then you go on with your life meet someone else and you’re getting married. Here it is, the big day. You’re walking down the aisle, look over and see that old flame,here you thought everything would be great and you’d live happily everafter, but you realize you never should have let him (her) go. Boy doesn’t that screw up your whole day??? Well it seems that Trot Nixon, for at least last night, was that guy. I know that we’re better off, we have a much more co-hesive team now, and just all around are doing better with out Trot (did I say that??). But I just knew that if anyone was going to throw sand in our gas tank that it would be him.

You all know that I’m the BIGGEST Trot fan going. But I am an even BIGGER, MORE RABID SOX FAN. ****, I almost feel like I should apologize for what happened. Stupid huh?? When they called Trot’s name, I just crawled under the covers and prayed for him not to get a hit. I said, “Please God, don’t let him get a hit NOW!!!,please not now!”

I only skimmed through the comments but no one else has even brought Trot up (unless I overlooked it). I guess it’s sort of like the 800 pound gorilla in the room: Everyone knows he’s there, but no one talks about it.

PS, I still have all the confidence in the world in our management, staff and players. We have over come bigger obstacles than this. Can we all remember 2004?? When we start to doubt this team, we should all remember the 2004 slogan:
“WE BELIEVE”.

Jeff, I feel the same way about Gagne as you. He just doesn’t have IT anymore. They kept bringing up the fact that he got the S in something like 80 games a few years back. They just overlooked one thing: THAT WAS A FEW YEARS AGO!!!! I can’t believe we gave up three guys plus all that money for THIS!

You guys really need to get off Gagne’s ***. Last nights lose was not his fault. If Lopez could get out a career .200 hitter against lefties out like he should be that game goes another inning. We really didn’t give that much up for him other than David Murphy. He may turn out to be something big one day but not for awhile. Gabbard was OVERACHIEVING and will never reach the number he posted with us again. He’s a mid to bottom rotation kind of guy and will be his entire career. Gagne has a lot of upside and will show it. If the Red Sox advance, he will be on the World Series roster and I wouldn’t be surprised if he had a save or a few solid innings. And Ellen, I don’t mean to be rude at all but it wasn’t just a few years ago that Gagne was good. He was good for the first half of this season and the first few weeks that we got him. It’s been a recent struggle with him and i think people are forgetting that he may be hurt because he is coming of career threatning should surgery this year. Although Gagne gets the loss for last nights game I think Lopez should have gotten it. He allowed both inherited runners to score, one of them via wild pitch. And when you’re a left specialist, you really should be able to get a guy that bats about .200 in his career against lefties out.

*shoulder

gosox,

When Gagne came in, did you really believe he was going to get out of the inning untouched?

Gagne has been TERRIBLE this year.

He WAS good, not a pressure pitcher with the Red Sox. Very obvious to me but not to you obviously.

If the Sox beat the Tribe.

Gagne will be watching like you and I. I also hope Lopez will be watching with Gagne as well.

I was for the trade back in late July. I thought he was the answer. He has been nothing but a headache for everyone. A coach killer is Gagne!!!

Why was Lopez in that jam?

Remember it was Gagne that put those guys on. Don’t forget about that gosox!!!

Yes when Gagne came in I did think that because he can return to the greatness it just might take time. I would still much rather have him go out there than Tavarez who I think has actually never been good in his career. Gagne still can be a pressure pitcher you dont just loose that ability over night. Lopez should have been able to get out of that “jam” anyways. It was first and second with one out. To me that really doesnt classify as a jam because a ground ball to short gets you out of the inning. I place all responsibility on Lopez. How you don’t get Trot Nixon out in that situation is embarrassing. Lopez’s main job is to get lefties out. I was licking my chops when he came in because I thought like Tito that he would be able to get a lefty that has a poor batting average against lefties out.

Gagne’s greatness is in the past. He was GREAT, not anymore.

I don’t know what you see in Gagne. I just don’t see it and nobody else does as well.

Some guys can pitch when the pressure is on and some can’t. Gagne is obviously a guy that can’t.

Let me get this straight. There are 2 guys on and 1 out in extra innings of a pivotal game and that is not a considered a jam?

Are you feeling o.k.?

I think I have heard it all.

What is a jam to you?

I can’t wait to here this one.

Lopez is o.k. when you need to turn a switch hitter around. Such as Victor Martinez, get him to hit from the right side. Lopez is not a lefty specialist, never has and never will be. Personally I would rather have Tavarez and Corey over Gagne and Lopez. Gagne is afraid out there, he has ZERO confidence.

A jam would be if there was a man on third and a sac fly scores him. Not with a guy on second and first with one out where a grounder gets you out of that inning.
And what I see in Gagne is a guy that converted almost 90 straight saves. I see a guy that had 16 saves and a 2.16 era at the all star break. Sure now he’s not doing that great but he’ll turn it around. This guys going to make the hall of fame and hall of famers always turn it around in adversity thats what makes them great.

Would you have any confidence when you have every Red Sox fan all over him wanting him to strike out every batter he faces. When he was with the dodgers or the rangers he didn’t have that pressure and he thrived.

You just answered your own question. He can’t pitch when the pressure is on. You said it, he did it with the Rangers in front of family and friends. The Dodgers, well have the crowd left to beat the traffic. That is how it is in So. Cal.

Boston and N.Y. is a whole new animal.

As of right now, Gagne will not make the hall of fame.

He’ll be closing for someone next year. Certainly not in a Boston uniform. AMEN!!!

I say with 2 on and 1 out in the 11th in a pivotal playoff game, there is no doubt that is a jam. If the pitcher is in that sitaution, he is not in a good spot. A single and the go ahead run is in.

Sorry you don’t feel that Lopez is a lefty specialist though because he is. Thats the reason that he’s still on the Red Sox.They needed atleast one lefty pitcher and J.C Romero wasn’t cutting it. Also, I’m pretty sure that the reason they have Lopez isn’t to turn a switch hitter around. That would be quite a waste of money. He’s there to get lefties out because the front office realized the Angels approach of all righty’s in the bullpen would just not cut it.
example. 2004 ALDS- John Lackey put in the game to pitch against David Ortiz because there were no lefties in the bullpen. I think we all know how that turned out.

Gagne was a great closer. Holds the record for consecutive saves.

When he started he was pretty bad. They decided to put him in as a closer and it worked out. For some reason in Boston he has struggled big-time!!! Too much pressure perhaps, bottomline is he is not getting the job done.

Is the entire game his fault, no. He didn’t help, no surprise there. Keep away if the game is close!!!

Get him on the Bruins. He had a hockey scholarship from Vermont.

How could you say Lopez is a lefty specialist?

Lefties have pounded him!!!

Mike Myers, Tony Fossas were…

Lopez a lefty specialist, are you kidding me?

If that runner has speed. Normally all you have to do is induce a grounder and if you’re a side arm pitcher like Lopez you should be able too.
I still think that Gagne can do it. I don’t think he’s caught a case of the Edgar Renteria disease. He’s better than that.

He probably wont be closing for us next year. But I don’t think theres any doubt that he will make the Hall. He won the Cy Young as a closer, he converted 80 some odd saves,and in 9 years he almost has 200 career saves.

And he’s still not done.

Lopez is there to for switch hitters. Turn them around, if the matchup calls for it.

How was Lopez used during the Angels in game 2?

Exactly what I wrote about above.

As of right now, Gagne is not a hall of famer.

Your the only one that thinks that I am sure.

He was brought in to be a lefty specialist is what I’m saying. And he’s failing at it miserably.

Actually no he was not. He was used to give up the game winning single to Trot Nixon and throw a wild pitch for some insurance.

I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one who thinks so. If you’re a red sox fan who would judge his entire career on the last month, than I can see your argument.

I have never hidden the fact that I was not (to say the least) a Tavarez fan, but, gosox, I definitely would have preferred to have him out there instead of Lopez and/or Gagne. Gagne just hasn’t shown me or anyone else in the Nation that he can be truly effective in a jam, and if you don’t think that was a jam, then I’m sure that I’d be truly shocked to learn and mortified to be in what you call a JAM, a close spot or a pinch. And as for Lopez (he is the sidearm pitcher right?) and his style of pitching, to me, the sidearm has always been a very scary type of pitch. Kent Tekulve (Pirates mid-late 70’s) was the Master of that style and I haven’t seen anyone who has been as effective as he was since.

gosox: I think that a jam is when you’re in extra’s you’re tied, it’s 1:00am or later and you put runners on.

Haha I’ve never heard of them Kent guy but it could be because i was born 20 years after he retired.
I dont know I just wasn’t worried when they had two men on and one out. I thought that with Lopez coming in he should have been able to get the job done.

I guess thats just me.

Hahaha ellen I think that’s a very good point. I may have just been half asleep and that’s why I didn’t think it was all that risky.

*Wow my math skills are great. 30 years after he retired. (if he retired in the 70’s, 20 years for 80’s)

ps gosox: I’m not judging Gagne’s or Lopez’s entire career on the last month, but I am judging what they have done for the RedSox, that’s all that concerns me and I’m sure at this point that’s all that concerns many Nationers. It really doesn’t mean a thing that Gagne holds the record for saves if he can’t pull one out of the proverbial rabitts hat or somewhere else they won’t let me print on this blog. If you can’t get it done, be man enough to step up and say so, be a TEAM player. I think that other than Francona (and I’m sure he has his reasons, although I can’t quite figure them out) the only person who thinks Gagne can be effective is Gagne!

Lopez is used by Francona as a left-handed specialist, but he is NOT a true left-handed specialist. Right-handed hitters are batting .176 against him while lefties have a .293 average. I truly disdain the specialist’s role anyway. It hamstrings a bullpen. If a pitcher cannot retire hitters from both sides of the plate, then he does not belong in the big leagues. The left-handed specialist is one of those recent inventions that I hope fades away.

Regarding Gagne, he WAS a great reliever in LA before injuries. Now, he is a good reliever in a place like Texas (where there is no pressure whatsoever), but not in Boston. Epstein has made good deals and bad deals. This one with Gagne will be very bad unless the Sox can draft at least one future quality Major Leaguer among the two compensation picks they receive in next year’s draft when Gagne signs elsewhere. Gabbard and Murphy are decent big leaguers now. Engel Beltre (the teenage phenom the Sox included in the Gagne deal) could be a five-tool big leaguer.

I recognize that last night was just one loss, just as Game One was just one win. And I believe the Sox will win this series. When the off-season arrives (hopefully not until late October), the Sox need to add a second left-hander in the bullpen (they could already have the answer in-house with Craig Breslow, who had another good season at Triple-A). Papelbon, Okajima, Delcarmen, Timlin (who I think will be resigned for one more year) and Bryan Corey make a good corp of relievers – for the World Series (if the Sox advance) and next season. I would like to see two more reliable arms in 2008, but the five aforementioned relievers are enough to get it done in this post-season.

I know we will see Lopez and Gagne again in the ALCS. Hopefully, the game is not on the line when they enter.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

As of right now Gagne is not a hall of famer. Among closers in the game right now that is a hall of famer is Mariano Rivera. Could Gagne get there, perhaps.

The late Dan Quisenberry was a great side armer.

For some reason, you didn’t think that was a jam.

Let me paint the situation for you.

Runners on first and second with 1 out. The runners are there because of Eric Gagne again pitching poorly. That to me is a jam for a pitcher to inherit that. For some reason you can’t see that. When Lopez came in, Joe Buck even mentioned the word. If Lopez got out of it, he also would have said lopez gets out of the jam in the 11th. That situation is a jam whether it is a playoff game or the first game of the year. Of course the magnitude of this game is bigger and the stakes are as well.

I just can’t believe that you think Gagne pitched well or has pitched well and will pitch well. What do you base that on? Please explain that to me.

Wow. I’m in my late 30s, and for the most part I still feel young. However, I feel a bit old when someone says they don’t remember Kent Tekulve, one of the top closers of his era. Not as good as Bruce Sutter, but still effective. Lopez is certainly no Tekulve. Gagne and Lopez are not solely responsible for the loss, but they played a significant part. Schilling’s ineffective start certainly didn’t help matters, and Delcarmen allowing the game-tying run after the Sox rallied back to take the lead was deflating. The Sox – and Red Sox Nation – just need to put the loss to bed and focus on winning tomorrow night. I’m hoping that Dice-K repeats his performance from earlier this season against Cleveland. He was lights out in that game.

I don’t disagree with Francona’s thinking when Lopez came in. Nixon hasn’t had much success against lefties.

Francona used lopez perfectly in the Angels series. He switched around a hitter and that is what Lopez could be used for and that is it.

Lopez will not see late inning situations and face Sizemore, Hafner or any other lefty. Perhaps Victor Martinez, to turn him around, his weaker side is the right side. You need to put your players in a sitauation to suceed. Lopez facing a lefty late in the game, you are not putting him in a situation to suceed. You are setting him and your team up for failure!!!

I agree with you, Brian, but Francona doesn’t see it that way. He sees Lopez as a left-handed specialist, and continues to trot Lopez to the mound to pitch to left-handed batters. Since he is one of those managers who is caught up in the “left-handed specialist” trend, hopefully next season the Sox can have a left-handed specialist who can actually get left-handed batters out.

I think that it is a well known fact that Rivera will be a Hall of Famer. Also in the game today would be Trevor Hoffman. If Gagne was still a closer he probably could still be doing the same thing that he’s always done.
I base that on the fact that he has done it before. He was doing it for a half of a season before coming here. Maybe the pressure of here is getting to him, maybe he’s still hurt, truly I dont know. What I do know is that this is not the Gagne that we traded for and it is of my belief that sooner or later if we give him the chance we will start to see the real Eric Gagne.

Delcarmen with the leadoff walk. We all know how leadoff walks end up. 55 % of the time they score. Something tells me in the playoffs, that percentage is a little higher.

Dice K has a chance to be dominating. Time for him to earn his keep. All the hype and with them flying across country to get him to Boston for a physical. Who can’t forget all that stuff back in December, great for t.v. Theo and Larry L. spending hours and hours at Scott Boras’ office in Newport Beach, Ca.

This is why they did all that. For him to win a big game in October. We will see how it will go. I do have confidence in him tomm night.

I completely agree with that. Lopex is supposed to be the Red Sox specialist but he is not. Francona will keep using him in that situation because in theory he should be able to get lefties out better but the simple fact is that he cannot.

I forgot about Hoffman. Hoffman a great regular season closer but certainly not in the playoffs.

I think we have seen the real Gagne. He can’t pitch when the lights are on. he gets a little tight around the neck. He pitched in front of family and friends in Arlington and most people jump on the freeway in So. Cal. when he pitched. He was great but that seems a long time ago!!! His days in Boston have been a total disaster!!!

*Lopez
I have alot of confidence in Dice K going but what worries me is Wakefield. If you asked me who I rather would have gone in game 3 earlier this season my answer most definetly would have been Wakefield. But with his injury and his sub par 2nd half, I’m a little worried.

Francona didn’t use Lopez that way against the Angels. He turned around a hitter, to make him hit righty.

Mark my words, Lopez will not face Hafner or Sizemore with the game in the balance. Only way he does if a situation like last night happens. Francona had nowhere to turn to. Ideally Tony Fossas would have trotted out. Of course that was several years ago!!! As long as Zane Smith is not around. LOL…

Rivera and Hoffman are undoubtedly Hall of Famers, but not Gagne. It’s hard enough for a closer to be elected. Look how long it took for Sutter. And look at Gossage and Lee Smith – two guys who deserve to be in the Hall of Fame but are not. There are numerous closers who had four or five great years but are not in the Hall. Some had even longer periods of domination, but aren’t in (like Jeff Reardon, Quisenberry and Tekulve). Gagne’s streak of converting 84 consecutive saves with the Dodgers is impressive, but he only had three dominant years. That does not a Hall of Fame career make.

lol. Tony Fossas. That’s a perfect example of someone who did not belong in the big leagues, and a perfect example of someone whose career was prolonged because of this fascination with the left-handed specialist.

A lefty specialist that could get lefties out Jeff is a great idea. Breslow could be the guy, you might be right. I prefer to have guys get lefties and righties out. You do need a lefty in your pen though. Embree was a guy that was better against righties than lefties. However he could get lefties out though. Unlike Lopez, I don’t hit lefty but I think I could get on. Baffling to me, has a sweeping delivery but obviously lefties must see the ball real good against him. No secret with Lopez against lefties.

Fossas looked like a guy you would see at the end of the bar. Hardly a athletic looking guy, he had a pot belly. LOL…

He was effective getting lefties out back in the day. A very short career. He was a Boston guy.

The Goose belongs in the hall of fame. I hope someday!!! He was devastating!!! Ask Yaz.

Gagne’s from Canada so I’m not sure what you mean by family and friends.
I’m not to sure about that pressure. That may be true but I’m inclined to believe that it’s not. In 2004 he pitched for the dodgers in the postseason he did quite well. Now I know he didnt have the pressure of Red Sox nation but LA does take baseball pretty seriously.

Jeff, I totally forgot about Dan Q. Great man in baseball. Good for his community too, as I remember now. When gosox said he had never heard of Tekulve, I had to take a seat and try to remember that I’m 48 and not still 18 or 20.
gosox, if you want to see some truly exceptional “not the norm” pitchers, I think you should look up some film of Tekulve or Dan Quisenberry pitching, Now those guys were the best when it came to the sidearm…. Hey Jeff, you’re starting to get into the age when you are shocked when people younger than you don’t remember the things that you and I (and a few others here on the blog) do. Believe me, it’s gonna make you feel older and older as it goes on!!lol

What I mean is the crowd or lack there of. Very small fan base in Arlington and by the time he took the mound in L.A. Most were on the freeway. LOL…

You can’t compare baseball fans in L.A. to Boston. I have been to a playoff game out there before and the atmosphere was very different. East coast is high pressure!!!

I think that is stating the obvious when I say Gagne can’t pitch with the pressure. Call it the way I see it. The Bruins should try to get him, they need him. Red Sox don’t!!!

He never heard of Telkuve, WOW!!!

He needs to read about him. He was one of the greats back in the day!!! Nasty stuff!!!

“We Are Family” gosox…

Great stuff!!!

Epstein did say that he wouldn’t have made the Gagne deal if the Sox were not assured of two sandwich picks in next year’s draft. Hopefully, there is another Buchholz-type player among the two who are selected. Otherwise, the trade is a complete bust.

hahaha im sorry I didnt mean to imply that you guys were old which you’re not. I’ll try and look up some that film though Ellen thanks.

I’m feeling very old here. Uh oh!!!

Next he is going to say, the monster seats have been there the hole time.

Does he remember the net?

LOL…

I would go to games when I was younger and my oldest brother would say he would remember this coach and that coach as players. I would say, those guys played.

Now, I remember managers in college. Francona comes to mind. Eric Wedge of course. Francona tore it up in Omaha, he was AWESOME!!!

Wedge with the Shockers of Witchita State. It seems so long ago!!! LOL..

That’s funny, Ellen. Actually, even though for the most part I feel no different now than I did 10 years ago, I do feel aches and pains after playing basketball and baseball that I never felt before. I play in a 30-and-over wooden bat baseball league here in Orlando. I played in these amateur leagues for years in Ohio, but had a five-year hiatus after moving down here and started playing again this fall. We play Sunday mornings, and it takes me every bit of the week to recover in time for the next game. After today’s game, I have a sore right Achilles heel, a aching left knee and two sore hamstrings. That makes me feel old!

It is official I am getting old!!!

I ate supper at 3:30 today. LOL…

Oh I do remember the net. My first game was at the ripe young age of 6 and I went too see the Red Sox take on the good ol’ Mariners with Griffey and ARod. Oh not to mention Edgar Martinez!
Random question right here but when is the next Boston hosted All Star game. I loved how they brought Ted Williams out and you got to see all thost players huddled around him. Just a great baseball moment, and I can’t imagine what fun thing the new ownership would cook up!

It’s all in the mind. If you feel old you are, if you don’t feel old you are not. We believe what we want to believe.

Hey gosox, I’m not really feeling as old as I’m feeling nostalgic and sorry that you missed some of the greats (funny I think that is something that my dad said to me about 28 years ago!!) LOL

That is a sign of getting old – eating the early bird special! lol. Of course, that is also a sign of living in Florida.

When John Harrington can come up with something like that, I would agree what would the new ownership come up with. I’m sure a great show. Werner being the t.v./hollywood guy. The new owners do the right thing. Harrington was AWFUL!!

ouch!!first game at six had Griffey and ARod!! God I’m glad L’oreal has my shade of blonde in their stock!! I never let it come in far enought to see the greys. But most times I really do not feel my age, and I forget and think that I’m still 20 or so. Anybody remember Joe Rudi with Oakland???

That’s a good attitude, Brian. I feel young in every aspect of my life except on the baseball diamond and the basketball court. Yet I continue to play because I enjoy both games. I never did get into softball. I like the strategy of baseball, especially in these amateur leagues where pitchers rely on location, off-speed pitches and breaking balls since they have 80 tops fast balls. I am left-handed, and have always played first base. I like the strategy of playing that position as well. Of course, the time will arrive when I will have to play softball instead of baseball. Hopefully that is a ways down the road!

The early bird special. LOL…

Old timers flock to it.

I want a World Series game during the day, a Sat. or Sun. of course.

Old timers tell me all the time about it. During the week, a World Series game. I can’t even imagine it.

No World Series day games since October of 1984. Tigers clincher vs the Padres.

Yes Ellen I’m sorry about that too. I wish I got to see Yaz play or Teddy Ballgame but I was born right in the boom of all Boston sports where the Red Sox have won a World Series, the Pats have won 3 (going for the fourth), the Celtics are finnaly getting good again and the Bruins. Well I just don’t know what to say about them haha.

Joe Rudi – the guy that Billy Martin wanted instead of Reggie Jackson, at last according to The Bronx is Burning” mini-series. I remember when he played for Oakland. He was past his prime when he played a season for the Sox.

I have played 1b as well. I always liked, just to talk to someone. Like Sean Casey does or Millar does. Playing the o.f. would get boring. Being a lefty, first basemen look good.

Derek Lee, Mark Texeria, Kevin Youklis and Pujols are righties at 1b. Most of the greats are lefties. Mattingly or Keith Hernandez. they look better at that position!!!

Just as a laugh, with all the fighting over what to do with our Ted’s body, maybe they’ll be able to bring him back for the next Allstar @ the Fens!

Joe Rudi, lol…

Funny name I haven’t heard in a while. Good stuff for sure!!

They can affix Ted Williams head to Eric Hinske’s body, and maybe the Sox would have a productive utility player.

Dan Shaughnessy wrote something great a while back. If Ted Williams drove in a car could he go thru the his tunnell? Remember it was commercial vehicles at first. Noe everyone can go thru.

Only thing he wrote that wasn’t negative!!!

Hard to believe Hinske was once rookie of the year. 2002…

Seems like so long ago!!

Jays paid for most of his salary!!! AMEN!!!

Williams wasn’t “ice” in the playoffs. If he comes back maybe he could be “ice”.

That longest homer he had at Fenway was a rocket!!!

That red seat is way up there, some 25 rows up if not more.

Next year, I read where the Sox are considering Moss for the role Hinske has filled this season. Moss will play first base during winter league ball. He is a solid corner outfielder, and has a bat that can hit for average and power. Another season at Triple-A would not benefit him, and he is not ready for a starting position, so the utility role (first base, left field, right field) would be ideal. He would definitely be more productive than Hinske, and he would be inexpensive, which would allow the Sox to use the money elsewhere – such as acquiring a left-handed specialist!

Ouch, Jeff, makes for great images in the mind, just didn’t expect that one from you , LOL!

I think the 2 biggest mistakes Schill made led to the loss more than anything. The first inning run he gave up was on an 0-2 count. You figure with his control, he would waste one somewhere and go for the strikeout. Instead, he gave up the double. Garko’s single directly before the home run was also on an 0-2 count. It looked like he was trying to waste one up… but at 90 MPH, thats just not going to happen much anymore. A veteran with the control that Schilling has should never give up a hit on 0-2 count.

We all know that Gagne is terrible… and only will be used as a last resort. Unfortunately for us, we were in that spot in the 11th. Again, we should look at the bright side… better Gagne blows a game we don’t need vs. Francona putting him in a game in the 7th or 8th of a game we do need. It should be clear as day that he’s either hurt or is so damaged mentally that he can’t function.

The bad news is that we lost the game miserably thanks to Schil and Gag..I don’t even want to mention his name. The good news is that our core pitching, namely Delcarmen (although he gave up the typing run), Timlin, Oki, and Pap remain strong.
Game 2 accentuated my point that we urgently need Corey as a middle relief pitcher. Jeff would strongly agree with me.

Someone has to tell Francona do not ever use Lopez as a lefty specialist especially with runner(s) in scoring position.

I don’t blame Lester because he is not used to pitch out of the bull pen.
It makes me SICK thinking what Epstein gave up for Gag..

Cashman of Next Year Yankees was smart enough not to trade Ian Kennedy or Melky Cabrerra for Gag..

Hi RSN let’s start a drive to dump Gag..for Corey.

Read Jeff’s article at Sox and Pinstripe Blog why we need Corey.

NLCS could be over tonight. Now I am not too certain either the Sox or the Tribe can beat a well rested and sizzling hot young pesky Rockies in WS.

My only concern is whether Oki (1.2 innnings on Sat) and Pap (2 innings) is ready to pitch effectively tonight.

I can’t believe that Gagne, having saved 84 consecutive saves before, is being described as a person who cannot do well with the pressure on. 84 beats the consecutive save record by around 30. Saying they were different places and so don’t count as much is nothing but lazy stereotypes. Every save is a pressure situation. Say what you want about him but to judge the last two months of his career (and rule out the rest of his career) and say he is not a pressure pitcher is crazy.

To put it another way, his period with Boston in terms of innings pitched is about 3% of his entire career. Is the remaining 97% null and void because it wasn’t with Boston or New York?

That said, he is going through a rough stretch so should obviously be used sparingly right now. I’d be more inclined to bring in Corey for Lopez (if we get there). At least Gagne had a proven body of work before his rough stretch so you know it may come around.

THANK YOU BRENDAN!

haha that is exactly what I’ve been trying to say and I’m glad SOMEBODY agrees with me.

Chow, I really don’t think we gave up all that much. The only player that really could be worth something is Engel. Murphy probably will be a 4th oufielder kind of guy and may start on some teams. Kind of a David Delucci type of guy. Gabbard was overachieving in his time with Red Sox and won’t approach numbers like he posted here again. At best he could be a mid to bottom of the rotation kind of guy.

Engel on the other hand has a good chance of becoming a 5 tool player, but there are alot of young prospects that have the potential but sizzle. ( Wily Mo Pena) We’ll just have to wait and see what happens with him.

Brendan, while I agree that Gagne’s 84 consecutive saves was a tremendous feat, I wonder how many of them occurred in the midst of a pennant race? The Dodgers haven’t exactly been the model franchise in the last decade. Regardless of what he did with the Dodgers, that was then and this is now. You cannot point to Gagne’s body of work in LA more than Yankees fans can point to their 26 World Series title. Like the Yankees, Gagne is yesterday’s news. He is no longer effective. He cannot handle the pressure in Boston. Epstein rolled the dice with this trade and lost. Some trades work out and some don’t. Gagne is not the pitcher he once was – not even close. And it IS one thing to pitch in Texas and another to pitch in Boston. Some players just can’t succeed here, where there every pitch or every at-bat in scrutinized. Gagne has three great years in LA – just three. It is not like he was ever the model of consistency.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

Gosox maybe you’re right about the trade. However, the fact indisputably remains that Gagne has repeatedly proven to be detrimental to the team even if we’ve got him for nothing. It is unquestionable that Gagne HAD an illustrious career as a starting or relief pitcher. He could be effective with another team. Gagne isn’t the pitcher he once was. I would not have him near the mound, not even for mop up unless we have at least 7 runs lead. What need to be said about Lopez, we have been screaming that Lopez is not a lefty specialist. Francona and JF are not listening. Corey should replace either Lopez or Gagne. I don’t care which one, pick of poisons.
I don’t blame Francona for the disappointing loss at all. He had no choice.

Jeff – I seem to remember you a lot of people (not sure if you were one of them) saying the exact same thing about Mike Timlin. Two bad months does not make Gagne a bad pitcher, and it certainly does not make him finished, like you seem to be saying (when you say “no longer effective”).

I do not understand the “cannot handle the pressure of Boston” argument. Do you really think there is no pressure situation other than pitching in New York or Boston? Is that the only true litmus test for a pitcher and their success? Why is it the pressure argument always the default, when no one knows for sure of ther real reason? For example, it could just as easily be adjusting to the role of set up man.

To answer your first question – Gagne was magnificent between 2002 and 2004. In all those years, LA were competing for a playoff berth. In 2004, they got there in a very close finish, beating the Giants out by 2 games. In 2002, they were 3 games out. In 2003, they tailed off and finished 6 back, but at the start of September were within 1 game of the wild card.

I am not arguing the trade has gone badly. That is without doubt. What I dispute is the question mark put over Gagne’s entire career because of two bad months.

Finally, for me Gagne WAS a model of consistency up until he came to Boston. His earlier work was as a starter, which is unfair to use as a comparison. And in 05 and 06 he was hurt. As a reliever, he has been top class consistently until he came to Boston.

Two great quotes from Varitek and Francona that I read today…
Francona: “When he first came over here, he had the gall to give up some runs in Boston. You can’t do that.”

Varitek: “They’ve(bostons fans) obviously been hard on him. We’re going to need him. He’s going to have to get some outs for us and I think he’s fully capable of doing that.”

I dont know about all of you but I trust Jason Variteks assessment of any pitcher and if he thinks that Gagne can do it than so can I.

*So do I

Yeah, he’s going to get some outs. But not the third out until the damage has been done. We’re in LCS, we cannot wait and see and prove his capability. Yes we can afford to do that if we sre still in the regular season.

Although we all knew the game was over when Gagne entered. The truth is we never would have needed him had the bottom four (Drew, Tek, Crisp and Lugo) of lineup done ANYTHING in this series. Here are some stats to think over.
Bottom four

7 – 34 Avg 205

RBI’s – 2

LOB – 22

Rest of Lineup

16 – 38 Avg 421

RBI’s – 14

LOB 13

End of story. If these guys don’t start producing anything it will be a long series.

Would it be asking too much to get Ellsbury a start over Crisp or Drew? Crisp and Drew get just enough bases empty hits to keep their averages above .250… but they have no power and no ability to come through in the clutch. I really cringe when those guys get up, knowing we have a much more talented, much more hungry guy just twiddling his thumbs on the bench waiting to play one inning in left.

If Ellsbury can handle the center field, I will play him. The Cereal can pinch run and steal second in late innings. Let’s see what Kielty can do in place of Nancy Drew. Nein, nada, Francona won’t agree to it.

For those out there who would even consider sticking up for Gagne… quote on ESPN.com:

“Eric Gagne is so far from being the old Eric Gagne he’s unrecognizable. Not to mention unusable.”

So its not just us fans that think he’s washed up and worthless. Everyone knows the players can’t say that, so please everyone flush the “We really need Gagne” player quotes down the toilet.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/john_donovan/10/15/daily.glance/index.html?eref=T1

Rayman – I think you need to make the distinction between somebody going through a rough stretch and someone being washed up and worthless. Two months ago, he had converted 16 of 17 saves with an ERA just over 2. Did he just suddenly become washed up?

As for being worthless, I don’t know what sense you mean that in. If you mean he is worthless for the playoffs, I can see what you mean because it is hard to put him in in any type of crunch situation. But if you think he is worthless for the rest of his career, I disagree.

It’s a consensus that Gagne is unusable in the pennant race and in the playoffs at least in the Red Sox uniform. It’s incongruous to say that his career is finished or washed up. It remains to be seen whether Gagne is of old Gagne, hopefully seeing him in a different uniform.

I would agree that this stretch doesn’t mean Gagne’s career is over… just means he’s either injured or his brain is now jelly in a RedSox uniform.

I think the general feeling about Dice-K is that we all suspect he’s going to put together a solid game sooner or later, nobody has lost any faith in him. But when he does, nobody will become too optimistic because consistency is one of his main problems.

With that being said, Dice-K is going to give us 6 strong tonight and then Delcarmen/Timlin, Okajima, and Papelbon are going to bring it home and NOBODY else, please.

Hopefully the Nation shows up in full force at Jacobs Field tonight because they have a pretty good homefield advantage from what I saw in the Yankees series.

as far as gagne goes. he still has good stuff IMO and CAN be effective. he’s like JD the talent is still there. it’ll sjow up some time. he is just in a REALLY bad slump. i was all for giving him some shots in the reg season. however, when you only have a max of 12 games left it’s a lil late to be massaging somebody’s ego. i would expect/hope he gets mop up duty, if necessary, from here out. unless there’s another marathon like saturday when you really have very few other options. on another note i cannot believe they say wake will definitely start game 4. that to me is a total brain fart. especially if they were to lose tonite. does anybody really feel comfy with him going to the mound down 2-1? i know i don’t.

I just hope Oki and Pap are sharp as usual despite pitching 1.2 and 2 innings two nights ago.
All the discussions about Gagne were not intended to denigrate his capacity as a pitcher. I personally feel sorry for him. Gagne came to Boston with high hope that he could contribute to a winning team. The Gagne trade wasn’t initially a bad idea especially in light of Oki’s tired arm and was shut down for a brief period. It’s unfortunate that it did not work out for him and for the team.

smartpenn. agree with you totaly on the bottom of the lineup. to be honest with you with the lack of production from that group i’m kinda surprise they are where they are. since 09/01 averages as follows:

jd – .349

tek – .222

coco – .269

lugo – .249

my boy tek is the real killer. whether it’s bad karma or what i don’t know. but seems to constantly bat with 2 outs and RISP and he’s in a gagne like funk in those situations. obviously they CAN win with these guys struggling as they’ve done it a large portion of the year. but it sure would be a lot easier if they could get SOMETHING from those 4 occasionally.

007. i wouldn’t worry about those 2. pap especially. by my count he’s pitched 3 inn’s in the last 15 days. he should be able to go at least an inn pretty much every game from here on out.

as far as the whole left handed “specialist” deal personally i think a lot of times mgr’s overthink that stuff. is it an asset to have one? sure if he can make quality pitches. right handed pitchers face lefties all the time. why mgr’s feel that should nece change all the time in the 7/8/9 innings is beyond me. how many LH closer’s are there? i can think of 2. bj ryan and b wagner.

huh. guess it’s permissable to type bj. you never know with these things.

That’s reassuring, smckinny. Let’s hope that Dice K gives us strong 6 innings with a lead and Delcarmen (no leadoff walk please), Oki, and Pap will take care of the rest. Go Sox!!

I might even take Timlin over Delcarmen I think. Apart from the time when he appeared in his 1,000th game, I can’t remember the last time Timlin pitched poorly.

it’s a bit of stating the obvious but i really think it’s critical to get some early runs tonite. i think part of dice’s struggles the latter part of the year were from trying to be too fine due to the lack of run support he had in so many games. get some on the board early and MAYBE he’ll just relax and make good quality ptiches instead of nibbling at corners all nite.

bosox. you already been to the cracker barrel for your dinner special?

I guess Coco plays all the way to the bitter end… Maybe Ellsbury will learn how NOT to play in the Majors while watching Crisp. Need to look at the bright side.

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