The negativity in this town …

OK, I’m not going to go Rick Pitino on all of you. There’s no need for that. But it’s amazing. By about the fifth inning of Game 2, everyone thought the Red Sox were going to the World Series. Now it seems as if nobody thinks they have a chance to beat the mighty Paul Byrd tonight and steal the momentum back in this series.

Well, I think this team still has a very good chance. What they have to do is be relentless against Byrd tonight. Don’t let him off the hook. Score five or six runs in the first two innings. Put Wakefield into a comfort zone.

I suspected Tito might go with Ellsbury tonight, but he’s sticking with the mainstays.

Pedroia looks edgy at the plate, according to his manager. They need him to get going. The lineup doesn’t have enough people producing right now.

They obviously need some innings out of Wakefield tonight. But the most vital part of this game tonight for the Red Sox is to push some runs across early.

If they can get the ball in Beckett’s hands with a tie series, will everyone be a little less negative by this time tomorrow?

This series is not over yet.

Ian.

207 Comments

i don’t think anyone questions whether or not they can score enough runs for becket to beat paul byrd. but scoring enough for wake to do it will be a much bigger challenge in all likelihood.

just wondering, but didn’t wake win 17 games this season? he must have pitched well in some of those.

I think Wakefield will be ok BUT do not bring Gagne into the game in ANY situation!!

Pitching Beckett on three days rest would be pushing the panic button a little early! Just relax! GO SOX!!!!!!!

Francona is not going to give the ball to Beck tonight. In so doing, it would be correctly perceived as a sign of panic which would have a negative psychological effect on the team. Francona would only pitch Beck if from the outset he indicated that he would only use 3 pitchers in the ALCS. I am sure Farncona will not stay too long with Wake. Any indication of trouble, Lester is coming in.
Tonight’s game is a must win for the Sox, though not mathematically. It’s highly inconceivable that the Sox will win the next 3 games facing Sabbathia, Carmona, and Westbrook.

I wouldn’t be surprized to see Ellsbury in the lineup.

Although I’d like to see it, I don’t think you’ll see Ellsbury in the lineup tonight. I think Francona will stick with his veterans. I agree with Ian though, if Ellsbury were to play it should be in center field. I think there is also a defensive consideration there as well as Ellsbury has played very little right field and does not have Drew’s arm. Right now Drew is hitting better than Crisp.

Along with everything else he has faced this year with his transition to our country and major league baseball, Dice-K has now encountered the biggest demon of them all ….. FAILURE! He’s not used to that and I’m thinking his confidence is very shaken right now. If things play out to the end, he would start Game 7. So if Wake pitches well tonight, do you start him or Dice-K in game 7? I don’t like how that situation is shaping up. However, baseball is played one game at a time and the focus on tonight has to be scoring some runs, and scoring them early.

Finally, I don’t think this is the time you worry about lining up your pitcher for Game 7. If Tito gives the ball to Beckett tonight, and he loses, then where are you? Whatever happens tonight, you have your ace coming back on Thursday and I think that’s where you want to be. If you win, he gives you a shot to move ahead. If you lose, that’s who you want to keep you alive.

ian. he did win 17. he’s also got an era closer to 5 than 4 and exactly 5 of those wins came against teams with winning records. not to mention his career playoff era is 6+.

Agreed smckinny. Wakefield isn’t scaring anybody.

If it gets to a Game 7, you give Dice-K the ball. I don’t care if Wakefield throws 7 innings of shutout ball tonight, I’d rather have Matsuzaka on the mound. Considering how hard he took last night’s loss and placed all the blame on his shoulders, I hope he doesn’t try and throw any 300-pitch bullpen sessions to let some steam off. Plus in any Game 7, all pitchers (starters included) can chip in if Dice-K gets knocked out early.

Claiming that “Lester can pitch in relief” if Wake is ineffective doesn’t exactly put the fear of God in the Indians, I’m sure. Considering what they did to Lester in Game 2, they’re probably eager to see him again.

Of course the circumstances under which Lester came in the game were pretty severe, but he let the game go from “getting out of hand” to “completely out of reach” in a heartbeat.

I still maintain that Wake pitches decently tonight and the bullpen shuts it down for 3+ innings, including an extended Papelbon outing.

Also, it’s funny that Boston can potentially be down 3-1 by 11 pm tonight yet we can all still rely on the fact that Boston has come back from worse in the past.

Of course that’s not a situation anybody wants to be in, I’m just leaving the option open for anybody who plans on being optimistic if we go down 3-1.

gsm. you kinda indirectly hit on the point i was making regarding beckett. i understand you can’t worry about game 7 until you get there. but why wouldn’t you want beck avail for that game on normal rest? even IF they were to win tonight with wake beck won’t get a shot at that game now. plus if you lose now you HAVE to win game 5 night just to keep playing. why have a must win in game 5 ( in cleve no less ) when it was likely avoidable. there’s no guarantee beck would have won tonite BUT i’d say the probablility of that is a lot higher on 3 days against byrd than 5 against CC at home. personally i’d have liked to have seen beck tonite for a max of 6 inn’s and schill against CC in game 5. point being if boston is going to win it is highly probable it’s going to take 7 now. and dice and beckett in games 6 & 7 look like the best possible option IMO. it’ll be schill and dice for sure now although it wouldn’t surprise me to see them pitch dice in game 6. but ultimately you’ve taken your ace out of the equation for a possible deciding game and that just doesn’t make sense to me. you might not get to the 7th game BUT if he was only going to pitch 2 games what does it matter whether it was 1 & 4 or 1 & 5.

I hope they put Jacoby in there tonight for Drew however and not Crisp. If Wake is on they will be putting a lot of balls in the air and losing Coco’s ability to go get it could hurt. I hope they let Ellsbury get a chance tonight b/c Drew has been very much treading water this postseason. Pedroia is the one guy who is really aggrevating me. He usually goes down on the second or third pitch of the game and then you get the next 4 guys who see 25 pitches combined. Something about the start of a new season that Pedroia always seems to struggle with.

Just the Sox luck though, the only guy to come through yesterday is where tonight? On the bench. Good news for us fans.

Simply put, tonight is a MUST win game. Period.

My “lineup” tonight:

Lugo

Youk

Ortiz

Manny

Lowell

Pedroia

Crisp

Mirabelli

Ellsbury-RF (I think he can play there)

well i’d say the prob of winning 3 straight aginst CC, carmona, and westbrook is off the charts in degree of difficulty. CC and fausto prob pitched as bad as they can in 1&2 and they still got a split.

rizzo. i would also like to see ells get a shot but it won’t happen i don’t think. if he were to it would have to be for coco though IMO and i’d bat him lead off. drew is having a decent series. relative to coco anyway. my guess is it’ll be status quo except of course for mirabelli. tito’s already said JD will play against CC thursday so it’s unlikely he’d sit against a righty tonite.

I think we should put Crisp in center and Ellsbury in left. However, I would really like to see Drew in the lineup so think he should DH. But we wouldn’t want to miss out on Ortiz, therefore I think we should slot Ortiz in the Shortstop position and bench Lugo. Problem solved.

Sorry, made a mistake in that last post. Meant to say Ellsbury in right. Ellsbury in left wouldn’t really work.

my bad. read it wrong earlier. kielty will play right in game 5.

i’m a coco fan. but the fact is he’s struggled in the post season. so i’d love to see ells get a shot. plus ped has struggled also so he might provide a spark at lead off. worst case he’s provide more speed in case of a walk. prob not gonna happen though.

All the debates about Wake and Beck are based on the false premise that Wake means L and Beck automatically signifies W. I have a hunch that Wake will pitch a decent game convinced by the unanticipated W by Westbrook against the Sox and Byrd against the Yanks.

Q. Who is the only person who could keep michael jordan from scoring?
A. Dean Smith (kept him on the bench at UNC)

Q. Who is the only person who can keep Jacoby Ellsbury from hitting?

A. You figure it out!

I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for Paul Byrd to walk anybody. Only 28 BB’s all season. Then again, it wouldn’t shock me to see him walk 5 people tonight.

I don’t know what I’d do with the lineup, Coco knows the way CF plays at The Jake since he started his career there, but he’s really not getting it done offensively.

Ellsbury would provide a spark but whoever is in CF is probably going to be busy tonight so I’d go with Coco for his glove and hope 3-4-5 can continue to get it done, Pedroia takes more than 1 pitch before swinging at anything, and Mirabelli didn’t forget how to catch a knuckleball.

007. actually not for me. they CAN win tonight. not sure i’d bet on it but it’s possible. and beck might have lost. see previous sentence. my frustration/point is even if they win tonite ( with wake ) the chances of beating CC and carmona back to back are pretty slim. that means you’ll have to go 7 to win and now you’ve eliminated EASILY your best pitcher for a deciding game. except for maybe an inn or 2. it’s not that i don’t THINK schill or dice could win that game but given a choice between those two and beck it’s an easy one IMO.

Smckinny – do you not think that by assuming a Game 7, you’re managing for a future that might never come?

zach. no him walking a lot of folks is not very likely. they need to be aggressive early like they were against lackey and make him try even more often to hit corners. take him out of his comfort zone and maybe he gets a lil wilder than normal OR you get easier balls to hit. he’s gonna pitch 6 max anyway so it’s not really like you can outlast him hoping he gets tired. try and knock him out and get an early lead.

brendan. no i’m not. he was going to pitch either game 4 or 5 anyway. if it was 4. a) you have a better chance of winning this one. b) you have a better chance in game 7 because he would be avail on normal rest. thats planning for the future not gambling on it.

Ian is right. This is not “The sky is falling” time.
It’s not in our nature as fans nor is the nature of our players,coaches and management to give up the fight, even before the bell is rung to start the the round. Yeah, this is round four, but “We have not yet begun to fight”. (wow, 2 quotes in one post!)

I know it sounds terribly old and worn out, but we as fans have to BELIEVE. Did we give up or cry “UNCLE” in 2004? No.

I don’t know about you, but even last year I didn’t give up until it was absolutley mathematically impossible for us to get into the post season. Yeah, it’s me again with the rose colored glasses. But I’ve been a fan for far too long and have gone throught too many horribly painful seasons to give up now.

I don’t know about anyone else, but…

I BELIEVE!!!!!

The Sox lose their starting catcher but so do the Indians tonight with the lesser known of the ex-Red Sox on the Tribe, Kelly Shoppach. Shoppach for Garko is a fair trade off even though Garko couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn last night and fell over his own feet trying to field a Drew grounder.

I agree that the sky is not falling. The Sox still have a chance to they lose tonight. However, it would be much more ideal to even the series at 2-2, have Beckett on the mound for Game Five and know that the series will return to Fenway Park than falling behind 3-1 and facing elimination in Game Five at Jacobs Field.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

I personally would love to see Ellsbury leading off but that isn’t going to happen. It makes no sense to have this kid watch the game like a fan. Whenever he plays, good things happen. I would have him in r.f. and have Drew on the bench, Crisp’s defense is just too good in c.f.

Sox bats need to jump all over Byrd. They had chances last night against Westbrook but didn’t cash in. If they have guys on base against Byrd, which I am sure they will. Look at his numbers during the year, he pitches out of the stretch almost the entire game. I don’t see Byrd getting past the 5th inning. Mirabelli in the lineup for the first time in a long time. In sports it doesn’t make sense at times but Mirabelli will probably drive in 3 runs tonight.

Wakefield is a veteran and he knows what is at stake, the Red Sox biggest game of the year. He will give a good effort, 6 innings and the series will be tied at 2-2 with Beckett and Sabathia going head to head. We love our chances with Beckett.

We will take tonight.The Indians are sending there number 4 as well.It will look alot better even 2-2,and Beckett going game 5. Keep BELIEVING!!!!!!!!GO SOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Byrd doesn’t walk many because why walk when you can swing away and get a hit. Guys like Byrd usually get smoked in the playoffs, October is for power pitchers not nibblers around the plate.

I would agree with you Brian were it not for Westbrook’s performance last night. Ortiz hit some rockets off him though, but didn’t have much to show for his efforts.

Ellsbury is not in the lineup. It is the same as last night except Mirabelli is catching.

I think the Sox have to capitalize on every opportunity and that means if Crisp or Lugo get on base, they have to be moving. I don’t understand Tito’s reluctance to run in this series when he’s had those few opportunities. Ellsbury is stealing at a 90 percent clip this year and has over 50 for the three places he’s played. This year isn’t over yet, but I can’t wait to watch him play next year.

Another key is Pedroia who has done almost nothing in the post season at the plate. He has to get on base.

Wake will give us a good effort.

Okay, Fox has started coverage, so I leave now with just a few little thoughts.

1) I love this game of baseball.

2) I love being a part of the RedSox Nation.

AND….

3)I LOVE OUR REDSOX.

LETS GO REDSOX, LET’S GO !!!!!

I hate pre game coverage. These idiots have nothing to say. Let’s PLAY BALL!

(she says with much sarcasm)… “Gosh Don’t ya just love Kevin Kennedy???”

They just showed Wakefield’s postseason stats… 5-5 with a 6.12 ERA… he’s now 40+ and injured. Hasn’t pitched well at all lately. Not surprising that most of us are scratching our heads.

wakefield will give us 7 innings of 1 run ball. the offense will struggle but get just enough to win!!

The one thing Wakefield cannot do is walk hitters. He has got to throw strikes. A walk from him is almost like a double.

Hi all,

Don’t worry, this Sox team likes a little adversity. They play better if there’s a bit of pressure. They’ll come out swinging tonite.

That was rather disgusting. Pedroia had the best idea and had the best swing. Looks like the best pitch to hit will be the first pitch.

Not good, Wake can’t get the fast ball over the plate. Sizemore on second, he’s just not there yet.

Strikes … strikes …. strikes…. Good job Wake!

Good first inning from Wakefield.

Drew and Crisp ought to be ashamed of themselves. They were horrible.

i love when the red sox leave people on base….and i seriously can’t believe that CRISP, DREW, LUGO, PEDROIA, and YOUK have no rbi’s in this series. can someone else start getting hits?? it’s soo obnoxious to watch.

i hate when joe buck talks about the red sox ******* and he’s right!!

same scene-different movie.

What is this a re-run from last night?

I agree with you GSM. What’s the point of taking the first strike only to end up down 0-2? Besides do they want to raise his pitch count to get into their bullpen that has shut us down all series? When you take pitches against a strike throwing machine then borderline pitches will go Byrd’s way (i.e. the third strike to Coco)

Watching Drew and Crisp bat in the 2nd inning it is very evident to me that Ellsbury should be in the lineup. Those 2 looked PATHETIC up there at the plate. This is Paul Byrd not Bob Gibson.

Wakefield looks very good tonight. Lofton hits a homer last night and all of a sudden he is the best thing sliced bread. The media love to run with a guy and make him a hero.

If your behing Byrd 0-2 as a hitter don’t panic. He doesn’t have an out pitch. They need to swing the bat with authority whether it is the first pitch or the fourth pitch, swing the bat like a man.

gsm. no franCOMA should be ashamed. even if it doesn’t work you have to TRY something different. give ells a shot. this game is lookin/feelin a lot like last nite. just no energy or aggresiveness at the plate. once again other than manny. botton line is youk, ped, drew, coco, lugo and tek are all gaggin like a rookie **** star. sorry ellen. no offense intended. just the best analogy i could come up with.

you gotta like that. Wakefield’s struck out 4 in 2 innings.

Hopefully Cleveland’s lack of experience with the knuckler can carry Wake through the game. That lack of experience is definetaly helping him through his first look at their lineup.

was i the only one that noticed that lofton’s homerun was barely one? it hit the yellow piece at the top of the wall..it was by no means crushed. but suddenly he’s a huge hero

No out pitch Brian? Struck out Ortiz, Drew and Crisp, all on the same low inside 85 MPH fast ball. He doesn’t need an out pitch.

I saw that too lynnith. Lofton did hit it pretty well because it didn’t go very high. If it did, Drew may have had a chance to camp and jump for it.

mirabelli doesn’t get a hit. shocking!

Now pitching for the Cleveland Indians, Bob Feller.

Tell you what though-Byrd is getting a lot of movement and varying speeds. Right now he’s looking tough to hit

What was that-who’s on first?

No, can’t be.

said it before i’ll say it agin there’s not another team alive that can make mediocre pitchers look better than this one. how many g.d. f-n 80 mph balls right down the middle of the plate can you watch go by!

DP and Youk, setting the table for…

You fill in the blank :-D

Good job for Dustin!

Aww I hate ground balls…

At least pop-flys can give you some drama…

Man that’s a momentum stopper

Ortiz trying to pull an outside pitch when he has the whole left side of the field to shoot at. Not a very good effort in my opinion.

Like Ian said “The negativity here….”

gsm52: Maybe he’s hurting more than he’s letting on or he swung at it thinking “oh boy that was dumb of me.”

Regardless, Wake’s doing pretty darn well tonight. I’m impressed.

Oh and sorry I’m late to the party, but how are ya Ellen? :-)

Paco, I’m not buying the hurting story with the way he’s been swinging the bat. A big part of his success in September was because he went the other way. Even last night his double was to left. He knows better than to do what he did.

Ellen, not negativity, just analysis.

gsm52: Then yup, it was Ortiz probably thinking “boy that swing was just stupid of me to do.”

Seriously though, how about Wake tonight? That rest sure must have helped him.

I’m really proud of Wake Paco.

That’s twice now Byrd has been whacked with that double pump.

Manny and Mikey both had good rips and didn’t miss the sweet spot by much.

You can say what you want about Doug Mirabelli, but I am truly amazed with the ease with which he handles Wakefield’s knuckleball.

Sheesh, talk about pitching duel from the least expected pitchers. :-)

I know Paco, who would have thunk it?

Ah ****…

Seriously what the *bleep* is up with our hitting?

Youk probably catches that ball if Pedroia doesn’t touch it……….. Wakefield doesn’t touch that ball and it’s a double play.

Sorry Ian, but that negativity will come pouring out when we see our team can’t hit for beans. :-(

Sorry man, but that’s the hard truth of the matter. And I usually agree with you too.

That pretty much did it. The Sox can’t get a starter past the fifth inning, and only Ortiz, Ramirez and Lowell can deliver in the clutch. I no longer envision this series getting back to Boston.

Too bad for Wake, he pitched well and got some bad breaks. The Indians just hit some good pitches, there’s not much else you can say. The Sox have to hit, and hit soon, or this series is going to be history quickly.

Ian, were you saying something about the mighty Paul Byrd? How do you figure?

All that being said, the Sox certainly have enough talent to make some stuff happen before this is over.

pitch beckett on 3 days rest?
probably a better decision…

hit jacoby instead of crisp?

probably a better decision…

also, why no keilty? he’s hitting better against byrd than he is against sabathia!!!

WOW WAKEFIELD COULD HAVE DONE THAT YOU *******

Game over.

Yep… this disaster falls squarely on Theo and Francona. Drew, Crisp, Lugo, Gagne… all disasters. Starting Wakefield? Nice feel-good story… but he blows up in one inning just about every game.

Where oh where could we possibly find someone to breath some life into these sleepwalkers? Beckett? Ellsbury? Too obvious. Let’s just sleepwalk all the way to the golf course.

Well I think the last time something like this happened, I stopped watching and we took 3 of the next games fromt he Yankees.

That’s right, I only caught 1/3 of Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS and we all knew how that went, hehe.

Well, there’s always Fantasy Football; with Tom Brady as my QB, I can’t go wrong now can I?

This team won the first round and said, “Well, it’s just Cleveland and not the New York Yank-mes. We have this one in the bag!” Then they went out and played drunk. Actually, no. I have seen drunk players work harder and play better. These clowns looks like a freaking side show to a very cheap carnival.

Well, Boston Legal is on. That could be better entertainment.

Rayman, hindsight is always 20/20. We would all have done things differently. Five days ago after sweeping the Angels and blowing out the Indians in game 1, Tito was a genious. My biggest gripe about the post season was the decision on Bucholz. I think it was ****, I said it then, and I’ll say it now. That is the single biggest mistake the Sox made and I don’t want to hear any **** about strengh tests or too many innings cause that’s BS.

Could someone please dispel the rumor that Sunday there was an “optional” practice and almost no one showed up. Tell me this isn’t true. If it is, then THAT explains how this team thinks and their so called desire.

This team does not have the same fire and passion as the 2004 team. The likelihood of winning this series now is very, very limited. An Indians and Rockies World Series will be interesting for baseball fans, though. Both teams are hot at the right time.

This inning just proves that baseball is funny: if Pedroia or Youkilis camps under that foul pop-up and makes a routine catch on Cabrera, there are 2 outs in the inning. Wakefield gets Hafner swinging and that’s 3 outs with only 1 run scoring.

Instead, Youkilis can’t grab the foul pop, Wakefield knocks down a definite double play ball and the whole thing snowballs.

4 2/3 IP, 5 ER: don’t know what else anybody expected from a guy who hasn’t pitched in half a month and hasn’t had a good game since August.

Wakefield, Mirabelli, Timlin, Schilling (more like a Peso now), Crisp, Drew, Gag-me, Tavarez all need to go next year.

Never anywhere did I say Tito was a genius. The Angels were beat up and lousy… Ortiz and Manny just bashed their way through the series. I could have managed the team.

Ellsbury hit .353 in 116 at bats during the season. Thats nearly 100 points better than deadbeats 1 and 2 (Crisp and Drew). There is an even bigger difference when you factor in Drew and Crisp’s stats are primarily bases empty singles. I’ve been saying all year long that Francoma has stunk.

Well our only hope now would be to win with Beckett in game 5 and hope Schill pitches well in Game 6 and gets it to beckett for game 7.

Geez… maybe Beckett would have been a good idea after all… 2 runs might have been enough for him

This is just like the Red Sox, to finally start hitting when the deficit is beyond reach. Truly frustrating.

If we can only hit 5 more solo homers before Cleveland can get someone warmed up.

…and this is where Delcarmen letting up all of those extra runs really hurts.

Wedge isn’t stupid, he won’t let Byrd give up any more runs. Boston’s going to have to comeback against a very good Cleveland bullpen.

I think they need a couple more this inning to get some momentum back, and then just basically scratch and claw their way back into it.

Oh yea, and the bullpen needs to put up zeroes.

As a Yankee fan, I pretty much wrote off the season after my beloved Yanks lost to Cleveland. But then Colorado came into the picture. And now it’s so delightful to see the VAUNTED Red Sox (a.k.a., The Boston Tea Cups) get TROUNCED. Oh how beautiful this is to see the the Sox Nation swirm. It is simply sublime, but not as sublime as Thursday night when the Sox get eliminated. This is so much fun. Who would have thunk it? Sheer Joy!

Watch you language Vince. Not over yet.

Boston Legal is pretty good tonight.

I agree with you Rayman on the Ellsbury thing. I thought he should have been playing from the beginning. I still think Wake was a good call for tonight. He pitched well and had some bad luck and those 5 ERs are a little misleading.

Did I see someone say we hit two solo home runs? Very Yankeeish. It ain’t over until it’s over

Well that should be the end of that comeback… This is pretty much the last chance for the upcoming streak of deadbeats to actually earn a small portion of their millions.

Vince, you have no reason to be here. The Yankees are a mess, and that will likely not change next season.

As for the Sox, those runs allowed by Delcarmen will prove to be huge. As has been the case in the post-season, Youkilis, Ortiz and Ramirez are delivering (though the HR was Youkilis’ first RBI). Only four batters are hitting for the Sox, so four runs is a lot to ask.

The Sox have thrown in the towel. No production, no good starting pitching (no starter has made it out of the 5th), bull pen coughs up leads or can’t maintain tie scores; this team has completely fallen flat at the worst possible time. It would take a miracle to even bring the series back to Fenway at this point. I’d love to be an eternal optimist and say there’s a chance, but IF the Sox keep playing like this it’s over. The momentum is just too far on the Tribe’s side at this point.

I’d love to see a comeback, but with the way these Sox are swinging the bats (except the heart of the order of course) I just don’t see it happening. Everyone in the Cleveland lineup is contributing, pitchers are doing their job, and they’re getting all the calls. We may get a win out of Beckett if someone other than Papi or Manny can remember how to swing the bat, but does anybody really have any faith in a pitching performance by Schilling or Dice-K at this point? Especially Dice-K in game 7? This team needs to catch the fire soon or it’s time to wave bye-bye to the season.

I’ve said it a million times this year… I couldn’t possibly hate Drew any more than I do know. I don’t possibly see how I can look at his face another X years. Can anyone possibly think of a way out of this disaster of a contract? It should be pretty easy to dump Crisp… Theo just needs to pull down his pants, sit on the toilet, bear down, and pass Crisp over to the National League where weak hitting guys with mediocre speed have long, illustrious careers. How on earth are we going to rid ourselves of Drew?

At least the Sox are going down with a fight.

A 4 run deficit is going to be tough to comeback from. Stranger things have happened.

There chances are slim to win though.

Delcarmen was just awful. He pitched poorly against the Tribe during game 2 as well.

At least go down with a fight!!!

Delcarmen effed up game 2 as well.

Vince comes on when the Sox are down in the series. That speaks volumes of you Vince.

Surprise, surprise. Jon Lester walked a batter.

Our offense is aweful.I say trade Coco away for sure,snag Posada and put Tek as a back up catcher.Snag A-Rod and resign Lowell.Ditch Lugo as well.Now imagine a line up like this…
1. Ellsbury

2. Youkilis

3. Ortiz

4. Ramirez

5. A-Rod

6. Lowell

7. Posada

8. Pedroia

9. Drew

How would that sound?Pretty lethal eh?

Lester with a walk, what a shock. NOT!!!

I wonder about his future with the Red Sox. What I have seen this year and last year is not too impressive. He throws way too many pitches and this day age, he is nothing but a 5 inning pitcher.

I thought Vince was an intelligent and mature Yankee fan.See us Red Sox fans have people like BoSoxBrian who are not douchebags.BUT Yankees dont seem to have anyone,it seems that Vince is a grade A ******.

It looks like we have to clean house next year. Let’s get rid of the following through trades, retirement or not resigning as the case may be: Lugo, Crisp, Lopez, Tavarez,Wakefield,Mirabelli,Delcarmen and Gagne.If that’s not palatible with management let’s get rid of Francona. It’s a disgusting shame!!

Wait trade Drew and pick up Andrew Jones…. try this line up for size
1. Ellsbury

2. Youkilis

3. Ortiz

4. Ramirez

5. Rodriguez

6. Lowell

7. Jones

8. Posada

9. Pedroia

Too good to ever happen eh though the sox have the money and resources to do it!

chman,

Posada is not happening!!! Get that out of your brain. A-Rod perhaps, if I had to take a guess I would say A-Rod doesn’t go to Boston. Lugo is signed for another 3 more years at 9 million per season so the chances of them getting rid of him are slim. They would have to eat alot of that contract, like they did with Renteira.

Funny your already talking about next year. You have given up already. Come on now!!!

Any feedback?

I did mention that if we win Behind Beck on Thursday we have a shot.If Schill can bounce back and pitch well in game 6,we can run Beckett out again for game 7 perhaps or take our chances on Wakefield at Fenway in game 7.

As a Sox fan I’d definitely take Posada over Captain Duh-merica. I agree with Rayman, Drew needs to go but how? One way is to simply NOT play him. I hear rumors he isn’t even liked in the clubhouse. A-Rod won’t come to Boston. He is headed West to the Angels. They’ll resign Lowell.

That is assuming we dont win this game.I think we will make noise in this game when we return to bat,we aint going down like this,no way.

chman,

Thanks for the good words.

Your around all those Yankee fans in N.Y. It must be rough. I live in Yankee country here in the Tampa area. Of course growing up in the Boston area. I have seen my share of heartbreak and also great comebacks as well. There still is a chance but it is slim.

Haha, pick up Andruw Jones, and he’s going to bat 7th? And A-Rod is going to hit 5th. And Posada is going to hit 8th.

I see exactly zero of those things ever happening.

Francona couldn’t manage a girl’s high school softball team. He sure can spit some sunflower seeds though. Great attribute of a great manager.

If LEster gets a strike out here….it could be a sign that by nights end this will be a Red Sox classic.

Nobody is going to take Drew and his bad contract. The Red Sox are stuck with this guy. It was a bad signing back in the winter and it is getting worse with every game. A lackluster guy, no passion but more importantly no production!!!

Zachary!Im only dreamin dude.

I am in Atlanta territory and trust me you DON’T WANT A. Jones!

zacahry–You are right on about that dream lineup. Zero chances, about the same chance the Yankees are going to win the World Series in 2007.

Brian,with this team anything’s possible.Trust me.Beckett and Schilling will be the key.

chman,

If you are dreaming come up with a better lineup for us.

Your going to get ridiculed tomm at school if this score holds up. More runs in the 7th, lets go Sox.

Well Brian that Yankees team is falling apart.And Brian thanks for understanding the pain i go through in school everyday.I just wanna grab one of those guys and knock their teeth down their throat.There dam team got knocked out in the FIRST ROUND for goodness sakes!Bunch of fools.

Its ok if i am made fun of,since i got into baseball when I was a kindergartener I was used to it.Being a Boston fan,dunno how that happened but im glad it did.I love being a part of Red Sox Nation.

Wait, this season isn’t over yet. Let’s get through this season before we start dismantling the team.

Thank you Tek!Come on lets start a rally!

Cleveland have done a very good job of taking advantage of Boston’s weaknesses-particulary mid relief and the bottom 4.

Wakefield deserved better than he got tonight. Two downs, and Delcarmen gives up the HR. Tough luck play on the comeback-probably cost most of what happened.

Although, I feel Boston might come back in this game, I’m not sure it’s over yet.

Yankees always think for some reason they are going to win it every year. They spend the $$$ in the wrong way and on the wrong people. Of course Theo does that as well, spends it on the wrong guys as well.

Great start to the inning. The captain comes thru, way to start it Varitek.

Well thank you Lugo

The legend continues… How bad can Lugo, Crisp, and Drew possibly be this year. Can someone predict what’s next? How low can we go?

Thank you Lugo!!!

See now Sumner is a smart Blue Jays fan.he doesnt act like a ***** like Vince.Oh and GSumner,if Sox was to NOT win the division next year,i hope u guys do.As long as the Yankees dont.

I still do not see why there is no Ellsbury in the starting line up in any of these games.

How much worse do you want it to get rayman. We are not even putting up a fight.

This season is far from over.

Tonight’s game looks bleek. It happened so fast, scoreless game in the 5th and then all of a sudden. That is what happens when you throw a knuckleballer in the playoffs. Too many bad things can happen and will happen.

The Sox bats against Byrd were just too quiet. I thought they would jump out to a lead and Wakefield could settle in. Obviously that didn’t happen.

Well, I think both Boston and NY have to make some serious changes for next year. It will be an interesting winter.

Bosox hit the nail on the head… which is why this disaster is so extra painful… watching these overpriced deadbeats underachieve is waaaaay worse than past years where guys with heart like Trot, Damon, Mueller, etc. just didn’t get it done (outside of 2004). This season is the Yankeee way…. just overpay everyone including a plethora of washed up veterans and hope ~50% come through.

But remember who we have ready for game 5 Brian and game 6.

Why would we want A-Rod with the RedSox? Why acquire another player who is a guaranteed choke-job in the post season

Well Sumner,I really have to say I admire how your starting rotation will look,especially if all of them were to remain healthy.

I do not want to hear Damon’s name.That greedy *********.

Remember a couple of things about A-Rod-he has no rings.

But he does know about blonds and how to yell mine.

lol

We need to string sum good hits together.

Lol GSumner my friend.I can definitely comprendo that piece of info you provided to me.

The two best signings Theo did-was to not resign Damon and Shilling

Lester has settled in well.

As much as I liked the Schill,It is now Clay Bucholz’s turn.

Kudos to Lester. At least he stopped the bleeding.

I beleive that Dice K will settle in next year and pitch well.So figure Beckett,Dice K,Bucholz,Lester,and Wakefield.

Lester has done well.

Since baseball is playing with monopoly money anyway- let’s send the people that we cannot trade, force to retire etc., down to Pawtucket for the remainder of their contracts. That will probably give Pawtucket the honor of having the highest paid players in minor league history. When their contracts are over just don’t resign them.

Hmmmm… Lester is looking pretty good.

Let’s not forget the pain of Wakefield doesn’t end with his 6+ career playoff ERA… we have Mirabelli flailing aimlessly every few innings to remind us.

I’m wondering if we’re seeing the start of a change in baseball.

3 of the 4 last teams in the playoffs and at least 1 and possibly 2 going to the series are low to mid budget teams. I think maybe we are starting to see the risk involved with signing expensive free agents, and a move back to farm developed talent.

It’ll be interesting to watch the moves both Boston and NY make this year.

Betancourt is lights out-6 pitches and he mows down Yuk, Otiz and Manny.

Has anyone gotten a hit off him this series?

this falls totally on the shoulders of franCOMA and THEO/billy beane. as for tito. wake should have never started this game. and he made no moves to even TRY to jump start the team offensively. he is a joke. plain and simple. as for theo. the teams obvious need at the deadline was offense and he goes out and gets GAGne. and why. a) because if he didn’t do something he’d get criticized for doin nothing AGAIN. b) he got a couple of draft picks. for that FUTURE if it ever gets here. they will lose game 5. prob 2-1. i have no doubt in my mind. CC is too good to have 3 bad games in a row. and this team is TOO bad offensively to do anything about it. you can’t play 4 against 7-8 off and expect to win. they just have no pride or heart whatsoever. a direct reflection of their manager IMO. there’s alway’s tom or next year as the case may be!

chman

I’m not sure I’d expect more from Dice K next year than this one. He’s a mid of the rotation (3-4) starter, nothing more.

I’d bet if Theo had to do it all over again, he’d pass and invest the money elsewhere.

I’m not a Blue Jays fan, Chman. And how exactly am I an *******?

Someone once compared Dice K to just being a harder throwing version of John Burkett.That scares me.I hated Burkett.

Cuz Vince u just come on here to crack on the Red Sox when they are losing.

IF wake pitches for this team next year in place of schill they should finish last in the AL east. strictly on karma. there’s a reason there are no other knuckle baller’s in b-ball. you can’t beat good teams with one pitch. he s-u-x-s end of story.

I never said u was a Blue Jays fan either.

gsumner, just wondering how you’re always so confident in your assertions on players (ie: Dice-K will never be better than a mid-rotation starter, Burnett is better than Beckett, etc.)?

bosox. they really lit up westbrook and byrd didn’t they? thank you dave magadan. i think thursday they shouldn’t swing at anything. just take every pitch from ball one and see if CC won’t walk in a few runs. can’t be any worst.

zachary

to set the record straight, I never said Burnett will be better than Beckett, I said he had better stuff than becket. There is a differnce.

And on Dice-K-hey the whole of baseball is saying the same thing I am, the only ones that aren’t are Red Sox fans with blinders on.

There is still a slim chance. Even if Beckett pitches well, the Sox have to hit, and even if the series returns to Boston, someone other than Beckett has to deliver on the mound. I don’t feel good about the Sox chances. They are being outplayed by a team that, plain and simple, is much better right now.

Jeff

http;//www.soxandpinstripes.com

smkinney

If you guys don’t keep Wakefield-please trade him to the National league so we don’t face him again.

The guy kills us, particualry when the domes closed.

bosox. do you honestly think they have a chance to win this series now? tell you what. you pick the $$ amount of the bet and/or prize and i’ll take it. deal? they are done. most likely as of thursday.

GSumner, the Sox are in good shape with their rotation heading into 2007, and even though they need to have rebound seasons from Drew and Lugo (Crisp will likely be traded and replaced by Ellsbury), Boston’s offense is still several steps ahead of Toronto. The Sox and Yankees need to make some tweaks to their roster, but if you think that Toronto is in the same league as both teams, you are living in a dreamland.

smckinny

Didn’t Bosox suggest Boston would eat up both Westbrook and Byrd-that neither one would get out of the 5th inning.

I think any bet you can get him to take is a safe one.

But I have found as soon as you try to get him to put his money where his mouth is, he disappears-strange coincidence.

lol

Okay I go now. But it was still nice seeing you-know-who loose.

This doesn’t fall on Francona, or on Theo. This falls on Crisp, Lugo, Drew, Tek and even Pedroia who have not hit during this series. You can’t lay nonperformance on the manager. That being said, it’s not over yet and while I’ll have my fair share of things to say, I’ll still be glued to the TV Thursday night.

Wake will be with the Sox next year, there’s no doubt about it. He’ll give you 200 innings and win 15 to 17 games. How many millions would you have to spend to get that in a 4 or 5 starter?

I thought the bad decision made by the organization was to leave Bucholz off the post season roster. I also thought Ellsbury should have played when it became apparent Coco wasn’t doing anything at the plate.

There ain’t nothing for the Sox to do but go out Thursday night and give it their best shot………. That’s all folks.

I’m disgusted with the Sox, but I am impressed with the Indians. I think an Indians-Rockies World Series would be entertaining and competitive. Right now, the Sox don’t deserve to be in the World Series; the Indians do. And the Rockies definitely belong there.

gsumner. you can have him. he’s the biggest gimmick in the history of baseball IMO. all he can do is beat REALLY bad teams. in his 17 wins this season 5 were against teams with winning records. dice-k had 10 in 15 wins.

Jeff

You certainly get snarky when you lose don’t you. Did I mention anything about Toronto?

Tweaks-lol-if that’s all you need to do-you are the one that’s dilusional here not me, son.

Uh oh. I think vince123 is not the Vince we all know and love. Notice the spelling of “loose” in the last post. Who does that remind you of? LOL!

I agree with you, Garry. Though Francona left Wakefield in a little too long (he tends to do that with starting pitchers), he nor Dave Magadan or Theo Epstein can be blamed for this pathetic display of baseball. Schilling, Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Delcarmen (two bad appearances), Gagne and Lopez (in Game Two), Crisp, Lugo, Pedroia, Drew and Varitek (his one home run was a case ot too little, too late) are responsible for these three losses.

Well please Vince forgive me.Seems I was fooled by an imposter(Maybe Sentinel is stalking you!)Forgive me Vince and watch out for the *** Sentinel.

GSumner, you said both the Sox and the Yankees have to make serious changes next year. I disagree. They need to make some tweaks, the Yankees more than the Sox since the Yankees face more critical free agent decisions. You’re consistently trying to convince anyone who will listen that Toronto is an up-and-comer. Right now, they’re not.

Garry, I don’t think Vince with the pacbell e-mail address in Vince from Sox and Pinstripes. Vince from Sox and Pinstripes would not hide his identity, and though he is an ardent Yankees fan, I don’t think he would post a remark like the pacbell Vince did.

gsm. have to disagree with ya. tito has done nothing to change the mo in this series. i.e. insert ellsbury or pitch beck tonite. and theo did nothing to improve this team at the trade deadline. granted your right. ultimately players have to play. BUT when they aren’t doing that as a mgr and/or GM you have to try something different. and this series is over. this team is heartless. no way they can beat CC and carmona back to back. i will be shocked if the game thursday is even close.

Jeff-

Just curious, why do you think the yankees are a mess and that won’t change next season?

Jeff

Well either you don’t know how to read, or you simply want an argument. What I posted was, it will be interesting to watch both teams off season moves.

So the next time you post something to me son-either get your facts straight or ****.

Eck is saying exactly what I am thinking on the postgame show: this thing needs to get back to Fenway and Schilling.

They have to take it one game at a time, maybe now Boston will produce since it’s in the underdog role for the first time this series.

A silver lining? You bet I’m looking for one right here.

Can somebody please give Eric Wedge a shave.

One more thing, GSumner. The Sox won 96 games and are in the ALCS – accomplishing that with little production from Drew and Lugo, and not much from Schilling. They have their core lineup returning, and they will add Ellsbury, who will serve as the leadoff hitter that this year’s team does not have. The core of their effective bullpen returns, and the rotation will be anchored by Beckett, Dice-K (who I believe will be better in his second season), Buchholz and Lester. Wakefield will likely return, and I imagine they will sign a starting pitcher or acquire one in the Crisp deal. The Sox are certianly a disappointment in this series, but it is foolish to say they need to make drastic changes. Worry about your own team before making statements about a team that was dramatically better than the Blue Jays.

Mclovin, the Yankees are a mess right now. They don’t know the direction they are heading. If they resign Posada and Rivera, that will help, but if they lose one or the other, that will hurt. They also need to upgrade their rotation and their bullpen. So, yes, right now the Yankees are a mess. Yet they are still in much better shape than the Blue Jays, Orioles and Devil Rays.

By the way, I’m not your son, so don’t use derogatory names when addressing me. I’ve read your comments all season – many of which indicate you do not understand the game of baseball – but when I respond to you, I call you by your screen name. Have the maturity and class to do the same with me, and anyone else you respond to.

Jeff-

Say what you want, but the yankees don’t need to upgrade their starting rotation anymore than the red sox do. Everyone spouts about how great the so rotation is, but after beckett it’s just not. Buccholz next year will be an upgrade I’m sure, just as full seasons of Chamberlain, Hughes, and potentially Kennedy will be to the yankees. I think you’ll see cashman lay off this years free agent class cuz it’s just simply not good, but the year after that there is guys like peavy, sabathia, santana, etc. on the market unless they sign long term deals before then. Their rotation will be upgraded by the kids as will their bullpen as the year progresses next year imo.

It may look like they are a mess right now. But I don’t know why you would say they will be next year as well. Do you think they simply won’t address the areas that need to be addressed? That is just foolish

Mclovin, you would think the Yankees would address their shortcomings, but entering this season, Cashman knew that the starting rotation and the bullpen needed help, but he did little to improve both areas. So that answers the comment you made in your last paragraph. We’ll see what happens in the off-season. I was shocked that Cashman trotted out that woeful rotation and bullpen this season. I would be very surprised if he didn’t make some serious adjustments this winter.

By the way, mclovin, I was addressing GSumner and not you with my “I’m not your son” comment. It seems that GSumner lacks the maturity and class to address people by their names when he doesn’t like what they say, which in itself shows that he cannot carry on an intelligent conversation.

I’ll tell you why he didn’t address it. He didn’t want to mortgage the future to salvage a single season. He layed off a free agent market that had guys like adam eaton getting 8-10 mill. per year. That’s smart imo. He addressed it from within and made deals that wouldn’t hurt the club long term. He learned from mistakes he made like Pavano, Giambi, etc. If Torre comes back and as this thing drags out more and more it looks like that will likely happen then I think you’ll see posada, rivera, and pettitte return. After that they need to address the bullpen, but I think they’ll do that via trades, FA, farm system.

Even though they “failed to address their shortcomings” they still made the playoffs this year. So, i don’t think you can criticize how cashman went about it. He made the team younger and still made the playoffs without spending a ton of money in the offseason and mortgaging the farm. I’d say he did a pretty good job at addressing their shortcomings he was just patient about it and did it in house during the season.

Jeff-

I know you weren’t addressing me w/ the “im not your son” comment. no worries.

As said many times big money and multi year contracts are not the answer for W/S champs look at all the duds with these big wallets!!Mets ,Yankees,Red sox Etc deserve to be ousted!!Give me desire and heart to win!! Go Rockies and Indians.

Dandri, though the SOx have a big payroll, they have also developed a deep farm system and are stocking their big league team with young talent on the mound and in the field. Ditto for the Yankees, though the Yankees have many more bad contracts that the Sox. Lugo and Drew haven’t played well this year, but there is time for them to justify their contracts.

Jeff,Sorry you cannot convince me on this one.As long as fans shell out the bucks from master cards,owners will stay the course a detriment to the game of baseball!!~

Maybe the Sox should fight with the Yankees in bidding to sign the freakn Mighty Morphin Power Rangers to play for their teams.

Of course, Dandri. Baseball is a business. Salaries continue to rise, and even teams like the Indians and Rockies will spend more and more money, or they will lose their core players. That’s just how it is.

Your right baseball is a business,with overpaid employees and not doing their jobs!!Can”t fire them they are union workers, What a JOKE!!

I heard the Red Sox are going to sign the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers to help fill their line up.

Maybe the bronx should be burning once again!!

dam you guys… the season ain’t over yet.

This is really bad. The Indians stole all the momentum we gained after sweeping the Angels in game 2. I don’t know if even Beckett can stop them, they are on a total tear. I hate to say it, but I’m already starting to reflect on the season that was. A little part is holding out hope that Beckett can bring the series back to Fenway and possibly steal back some of our swagger. The Sox are a whole different team at Fenway and, as we’ve seen, anything can happen there.

if beckett could be an everyday starter there would be problem!

smckinny,

I’m not going to bet you any $$$ that the Sox comeback and win this series. I don’t even know who you are, why would I bet you. That to me would be very strange.

Do I think the Sox will comeback and win the series? Unlikely but it wouldn’t surprise me at all if they did win the series and play Colorado in the World Series.

I thought like everyone else that they would hit Westbrook and Byrd, what was I thinking? They pounded Sabathia and Carmona, of course that was at Fenway where they hit alot better. It was Westbrook and Byrd the last 2 nights, not Gibson or Drysdale. Amazing to me that they couldn’t hit those 2 guys. If the series goes 7 they will have a crack at Westbrook but that is way down the line. They have to win game 5 and that only gurantees you a game 6 against Carmona.

The bats need to wake up, they went dead all of a sudden. Who saw that coming?

Jeff

Again, it looks like you dont read posts. I did not say either Boston or New York needed drastic changes, I simply stated it will be interesting to follow the off-season moves.

And by the way, Im not the one who started this-you’re the one who started to post insulting comments so be a big boy and take it after you dish it out.

Where is Tavarez? After all he did for the Sox this season they sit him? He might have been able to give you a lot of innings down the stretch. He was pretty reliable this season. I think it’s a slap in the face to him. Give Ellsbury a chance as well for all he did too.

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