Schill back to Fenway hill

Even on the morning of the World Series parade, Curt Schilling sounded like he was preparing himself for the inevitability of leaving the Red Sox. Maybe the right-hander didn’t know quite how much the Red Sox wanted him back.

Now, it is a done deal. He will in fact pitch for the Sox in ’08 and it makes perfect sense. Schilling loves pitching in Boston and the Red Sox weren’t going to find a replacement on a market that has almost no pitching.

This is yet another reason why the Red Sox went so hard for Dice-K last winter. They knew that available pitching was drying up and that teams that have quality arms tend to keep them under their contractual control in this day and age.

So Schilling has incentives this time around and that might drive him to have more of a wire-to-wire season than he had in 2007.

Sure, you could have plotted out a rotation of Beckett-Matsuzaka-Wakefield-Lester-Buchholz. But you can never bank on the success of young pitchers. Also, you can never count on all five of your pitchers staying healthy.

The staff looks a lot deeper with Schilling coming back.

Now, it’s on to MIke Lowell. It sounds like the Red Sox are very determined to bring him back and that’s a good thing. It’s hard to imagine this team without him.

237 Comments

This is a great deal for the Sox. Takes a ton of pressure off Dice-K and gives the young guys another year to develop.

Steve

http//soxblog.mlblogs.com

I’ll take a Schill ride for another season for sure!

I think Schilling will have a better season now that Francona understands Schilling’s limitations. Francona knows now to take him out before he gives up the 3 run homer in the 7th. We have a great bullpen, so its best to use it before its too late (when you have a 41 year old pitcher on the mound).

Awesome news, with Maddux getting 10 mil from SD it is clear he could have gotten more short term from someone else but really with this deal he can be selling cars and real estate for the next 40 years in New England.

Now sign Lowell!!!

Very good move for the Red Sox to bring back Schilling. An incentive laiden deal is a good thing for the Red Sox. Obviously for Schilling it wasn’t about the money. If it was he would have went to the highest bidder. For one of the few times he put his ego aside. Schilling is looking to retire as a member of the Red Sox. His family absolutely LOVES the Boston area. A great thing for the area as well to have the Schilling’s around. They raise so much money for charity around the area.

Schilling will make his 30 or more starts and that is a great thing for the Red Sox and the fans. He will not report to spring training out of shape. As Kevin Millar said it looked like he ate Dustin Pedroia.

Schil is willing to return to the Sox for $8M + $2M. He could easily go to another team for at least at his current salary ($13M). It shows Schil’s loyalty to the organization. It shows it takes two willing parties to reach an agreement.

Great to have Schilling back.
Brian, I hope you are right, that he comes to spring training in shape.

So a rotation of Beckett, Dice-K, Schill, Lester, Wake. With Buchholz doing long relief and spot starting. Not too shabby.

Now, on to Mike Lowell.

I can’t believe that Schilling’s contract has… “$2 million based on weight clauses”. Why should it take a $2M to coax a professional athlete to stay in shape? That is laughable… but I’m glad he’s staying. It’s good to go in with 6 starting pitching candidates.

Awesome news, I couldn’t be happier. It’s really great to see Schilling take a significant base salary pay cut (although with incentives, his contract could work out to $13 million) in order to stay in a city he loves. You don’t really see too much of that anymore in sports in general.

Everytime Schilling has a bad outing next season, I’m going to remind myself of what he is capable of in the postseason and all will be forgiven. You have to love our rotation for the next season already.

Now, as everybody else has said, it’s time to take care of Lowell. Once that’s done, we’ll worry about shopping Coco for some middle relief I’m assuming.

Does anybody know what Timlin’s deal is? Is he coming back? Is he still under contract? I don’t know how I feel about him returning. He is the leader of the bullpen (and the band) but he is also going to be 42 on Opening Day.

I think this is a great move by Schill. He and his family can stay put somewhere they are happy in. He gets the chance for a real swan song season with a fan base that will see his pay cut as a sign of his loyalty to them (us). I just hope that when he does retire, he does the job properly and doesn’t decide to half retire for a number of years and just go one year too far.

timlin is a FA i do believe. his sit is like schill’s in that he doesn’t have an agent so it’ll probably be a lil easier to negotiate with him i would think. personally i’d take him back. he was still hitting low 90’s in the playoff’s and a sinker baller is never a bad thing especially in fenway.

“I can’t believe that Schilling’s contract has… “$2 million based on weight clauses”. Why should it take a $2M to coax a professional athlete to stay in shape? That is laughable… but I’m glad he’s staying. It’s good to go in with 6 starting pitching candidates.”

If you go to Curt’s blog, the weight incentives were HIS idea. It was his way of acknowledging that he came to ST last year out of shape.

And Timlin is a free-agent. The Herald has already reported that Theo has had talks with him. I can’t see a downside to bringing him back as well. It’ll only be a one-year contract and Timlin won’t be looking for crazy money (probably not even a raise). It’s a deal that should be done.

It’s official. Schil is back for the 5th season.

Yea, that is pretty nice to get paid $2 mil to watch what you eat and exercise — where can I sign up for that? Good move to sign him though.

This is great news! We are all so happy for the Schillings, the Red Sox, and the “Nation”! Loyalty is one of the greatest attributes a person can possess, and Curt Schilling just showed us he has plenty. And just like Schill wrote on his blog, let’s get Lowell resigned now. It’s a wonderful day to be a Sox fan…:)

My guess is that Schilling’s return to Boston probably means that Bucholz begins the year in Triple-A. If Theo and Tito were concerned enoubh about the number of innings he pitched this year to keep him off the post season roster, I would imagine they would take this opportunity to use next year to strengthen him up. He could certainly be called up later in the season in the event of a problem in the rotation. Pretty nice insurance.

I think a part of Schill’s loss of velocity was his lack of conditioning. It would not surprise me to see him up around 94 again if he comes to camp in shape.

Next stop, Lowell …. Mikey that is!

Woooo hoooo!!! Welcome back Curt. Theo, you’d better be spending some SERIOUS time in South FLA.! Lowell is priority #1.

I thinks it’s GREAT to have the Sox and
Schill come to terms!! A definite good faith move on both party’s.

Thank you mgmt, thank you Curt.

jimmaynard, I thought you were in Texas?? I’m not sure I get what you mean about Lowell being prority #1 here in South Florida. The Marlins weren’t willing to pay Cabrera and Willis, and they, from evidence of past seasons, aren’t willing to part with any of the Almighty $$’s (or any other kid for that matter). They simply take their share of the % and line thier already gold and platinum pockets!

I’m so totally computer ignorant! Will someone please tell me how to link the Re-sign Mikey petition to Schills blog, I have an account but don’t have a clue as to how to do it!

re-upping schill is a GREAT move. it is nice to see a guy take less than market value to stay where he wants to be for a change. lowell is int. he hasn’t filed yet. i have no doubt that the sox will NOT offer him the most $$ so it’ll be int to see if he follows the same thought pattern. i won’t bedrudge him if he doesn’t because he is a class act. long term there are 2-3 better options ( possibly ) IMO but i certainly wouldn’t be disappointed to see him back for 2-3 more years.

i wouldn’t be so sure that buch starts the year in triple A. personally i would view wake as more of a possible insurance policy if they need him at some point. i’m still not sure he’ll be physically able to start the year or go a FULL year as the case may be. either way you can never have TOO much pitching so it’s a win/win. 4 possible starters under the age of 29 locked up for the next 3-4 yrs is a definite plus. i have questioned theo’s trades and MOST of his FA signings but he has done an excellent job at solidifying the rotation and player dev.

Ellen, all you have to do is a copy and paste of the link :

http://www.petitiononline.com/mikelwel/

Right click on it, select “copy the link”, then go to Schill’s blog, and when you’re ready to write your comment, right click again and select “paste”.

As for Schill, that’s excellent news. Think of the rotation next year with a more experienced Dice-K and Lester, complementing JB, Schill and Wake.

Looks like they are getting serious about trying to keep Mike Lowell.
Also, it seems the Sox are thinking about a 6 man rotation. You all discussed that very topic here on this blog. I like the idea. With Schill, Wake and Dice-K; the 6 man rotation would be a benefit. All those guys do better with extra rest.

You can never have too many legitimate starting pitchers. The Sox now have six, maybe seven if they keep Julian Tavarez (who made some good spot starts this season; however, I think the Sox will trade him before spring training opens. I think Buchholz and Lester will be durable in their first full Major League season. I still think the Sox will acquire another starter since it is uncertain whether Schilling and/or Wakefield can stay off the DL. Regardless, I am glad Schilling and Wakefield are back, especially for team chemistry.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

@Ellen: I think Jim’s reference to South Florida was to the GM Meetings. As for the link on Schilling’s blog, just type up a post there and just type the link in your post as well. Presto! Problem solved! :-D

So I wonder if the 6-man rotation will come about? I know several of us here and myself were thinking about that possibility if Schilling and Wakefield came back. Now that’s the case, a 6-man rotation can really help, especially Schilling and Wakefield.

However, my concern is about Dice-K even in that setup. Thinking about the future, it’s not likely that we would see a 6-man rotation unless the Red Sox decided to function that way for an extended period of time. You’d rather not have Dice-K get used to the 6-man rotation rest schedule again because in case you have to go back to a 5-man rotation, it could hurt him. Hopefully I’m wrong and that he’s gotten at least partially used to a 5-man rotation and that he will work in the off-season to build up his stamina.

The petition is at 18,839 last I checked! I hope to hit 20,000 soon!

-Raj

http://pacol250.livejournal.com

http://www.petitiononline.com/mikelwel/

Oh and back to Schilling, an official congrats from me! Hope he becomes the Boston pitching coach someday after Farrell leaves (which I really feel is likely after his contract is over). He’s one heck of a smart pitcher in planning and such so it would be nice to see him around :-)

So anybody else feel that Coco Crisp was robbed of the Gold Glove? Grady Sizemore? No offense, while he’s good, he’s more of a flashy CF-type than Crisp who does that everyday. Man I feel bad for Coco…

-Raj

http://pacol250.livejournal.com

http://www.petitiononline.com/mikelwel/

I’m glad they signed Schilling. Perhaps, Theo and Francona read my 31 Oct, 12:42 pm comment. Now we have to focus on Lowell. Once that happens we can then focus on Arod. Perhaps he might follow Schilling’s lead and opt for a reasonable contract-perhaps even less than he got from the Yanks- with performance incentives just like Schilling. That would prove that he isn’t in it just for the $$$. While this is a possibilty his agent would probably persuade him not to-after all the agent (Boras) has to worry about his commission.Maybe, in this way, Arod can prove to the Red Sox fans that he really wants to play in Boston. Consistent with this approach, we should try to unload some of our higher-priced straphangers.e.g., Clement,Lugo,Gagne,Crisp and Tavarez (total salaries exceeding $30M) and pick up some decent players- hopefully with reasonable salaries.We now have something to offer- besides Money—- a shot at a World Sereis Ring.

pngelotti: I’m pretty sure Clement and Gagne are gone permanently, and Crisp will most likely be trade bait for prospects and/or some middle relief. Heck maybe even some bench players.

As for Tavarez, I like his versatility, but I don’t doubt the possibility that he could be traded for something. He is versatile so that means he stays or becomes good trade bait. Honestly, I think he’ll end up staying because of what he provided for the Red Sox this past season.

-Raj

http://pacol250.livejournal.com

http://www.petitiononline.com/mikelwel/

pangelotti:In one breath you want Mike Lowell to prove that it’s not all about the dollar and to take a contract “that’s reasonable”, and then you want the Sox to go and spend the $$’s on Arod. I’m not sure how you rationalize this. He is a prima donna, not something that the Sox need in their clubhouse.

a ? for pangelotti: How long have you been a RedSox fan?

i don’t know what’s gonna happen with a-rod or the 3B situation. BUT i do find it interesting that by most accounts one of tito’s main strength’s as a “players mrg” is keeping ego’s in check and running a smooth club house. so why do so many people feel he wouldn’t be able to do that with a-rod onboard? if that’s truly a strength of his i would think he’d make it work somehow.

I think A-Rod will hit bottom when he finds out nobody wants to pay him 35 mil a year, then he’ll have a crisis of conscience, drop the “me!me!me!” attitude, sign with the Sox for 20 mil a year at SS, and finally learn the subtle art of humility. Well, that probably won’t happen, but wouldn’t it be nice! I mean, if he wasn’t a flaming primadonna bush leaguer, you would want him playing on your team, right?

Pangelotti you don’t have talk some rubbish some times. 1st of all as Raj has mentioned, Gagne & Clement are free agents, so they are all ready gone. Also again as Raj has alluded to, there is a strong chance that Crisp and Taverez will be traded this offseason, although if they do stay, it’s not as if they are clogging up the payroll. What is it, something like £8m combined? As for Lugo…who is going to take that contract on? I’ve personally had enough of the revolving door at SS anyway, and I’m convinced we’ll see a marked improvement in Lugo next season. He was more like his old self towards the end of the season, and especially in the WS, and I think he carries that through to next year.

As for your obsession with having Lowell at 3B and A-Rod at SS, it’s not going to happen. Theo has already said as much. It was a ridiculous thought in the 1st place. And I’ve got to ask the question… have you even been following A-Rod’s career, actually not career, just the last 3 months? Just let me get this right; you want A-Rod to take a pay cut and to have an incentive based contract, to prove he actually wants to come to Boston!! Excuse me while I wipe the tears of laughter from my eyes. A-Rod is all about the money, and I wouldn’t trust a word he or Boras says about wanting to come to Boston. I’ll refer you to his comments at the end of the regular season regarding the Yankees. Considering everything that has happened since, I think this sums him up pretty well…

“This feels like home .It’s hard to believe that I played for another two organizations. So much has happened to me here; adversity, some success, that I feel like anything but New York feels weird to me now.

“The one thing about New York, the tough times are tougher than anywhere. But the special times are as special as anywhere. New York is a special place. I love New York.”

Right, rob.
But it’s a HUGE “if”. Because he actually is all those things. And like you said, it won’t happen. Cause sadly, someone will give him what he’s asking, or close to that.

Glad to see Youk get the credit he deserves at first base. Players usually get screwd the first year they deserve it.

Schilling’s signing is really going to help our odds next year… even if he only wins 10-12 games.

I really hope we don’t get A-Fraud.

I don’t want A-Rod on the team for a different resaon, simply becuase of the insane price tag. A lot of teams would welcome him abroad if he is willing to take a drastic pay cut to $20M per year.
You sign a player for his talents, not for his personality or integrity. Besides a player’s attitude can be easily influenced by his teammates, managerial and coaching staff especially in a winning clubhouse.

I was just reading online the Red Sox 2007 salary and I thought it was interesting to note:
1) Julio Lugo makes more than Josh Beckett

2) JD Drew has the team’s 2nd highest salary (14.4 mil)

3) why does royce clayton make 1.5 mil?

4) and the people in the bottom 5? Try Papelbon. Youk. Pedroia. Lester.

There’s no way the Sox should be going out and spending millions on A-Rod when as soon as these guy’s contracts in the bottom 5 come up, they’ll be looking for big money. And they deserve it.

Excellent point lynnith, these guys aren’t going to be making rookie money forever and if their numbers last year are any indication, they aren’t going to come cheap.

But the thing about Theo is he is especially fond of his guys who come up through the system and make it to the major league, so if those 4 you mentioned have continued success (and there is little reason to believe they won’t), I wouldn’t worry about them going any place soon.

From what Tom Werner has stated about A-Rod’s ridiculous contract, using words such as “burdensome”, I don’t really see Boston jumping all over the A-Rod sweepstakes. And you can forget about having Lowell at 3B and Rodriguez at SS because that’s simply not going to happen.

I agree that Lugo will be much more steady next year now that he knows what it’s like to play in a high-pressure city (ie: NOT Houston, Tampa Bay, or LA). If he can knock in 60 runs, steal 30 bases, and play above-average defense like he did this year, I’d be content. I’m sure we’d all love to see that batting average around .280 as well.

Can you imagine if Beckett didn’t sign that extension with Boston last year? He’d be a free agent right now and probably making (at least) $20 million. I’ve heard the term “best pitcher on the planet right now” thrown around numerous times regarding Beckett, and Theo wisely locked him down for $10 million/year. That cannot be overlooked.

I agree. I wonder where we’d be if it weren’t for Beckett.

And I hope you’re right about A-Rod. It would definitely be incredibly burdensome…unless the Sox are willing to dish out all the money that the Yankees have…and I hope they won’t.

I also hope they’re able to throw some more money Mike Lowell’s way. He deserves it and, although he’ll probably never have another year like this year, the fans are behind him. They definitely made a strong statement by chatting “Resign Lowell” at the parade and after the WS….I just hope Sox ownership takes notice.

It’s hard to imagine that Beck is practically making same $$ as Schil with the incentives and Lugo and JD make more than Beck does.
The Sox would probably jump on the A-Rod sweepstakes if the contract price is less “burdensome”. Tom Werner would have used the words like ludicrous, outrageous, insane if the organization is totally not interested in A-Rod.

if lowell goes elsewhere i think they have to get in on a-rod. all indications are that cabrerra would prob cost lester or bucholz and ellsbury or possibly crisp and another prospect. crisp is prob gone anyway but i couldn’t see theo parting with any of the other 3. maybe lester. although cabrerra’s numbers at the same age are actually better overall than a-rod’s at that same age ( 24 ) so it’s a tough call. he’s a special talent offensively. but there aren’t any other quality 3B out there. as FA’s anyway. lowell at his age is prob gonna be a lot closer to the numbers he had last year than this year over the next 3-4 years which makes that type of comm even more difficult.

In my replies to ellen’s comments of 8:39 and 8:45am today, which I responded to her directly- if one reads my msg that she refers to- I did not imply that Lowell has to prove his loyalty to the Red Sox (read the msg). That would be something that Arod may want to do. Lowell should get whatever he asks, so long as it is reasonable. As far as how long have I been a Red Sox fan? My guess is from about 1940. Perhaps before many of you were born.I’ve gone through many of the aggravations that Boston has gone through and I’d like to see that Boston puts the best team on the field that they can.
They say Arod is a prima donna- well for those of you that can remember- the media (particularly the offensive an degrading Boston media) said the same thing, among other vile and nasty comments, about Ted Williams. If free agency were in effect at that time- he would have left Boston in a heartbeat- even if had to take a pay cut.So let’s not judge people on what the media tells us, they are looking to sell a product, but on the numbers that the players demonstrate. How can one citicize Arod who runs out every ball he hits and just accept Manny when he trots to first base and just say well, “Manny is Manny”.That doesn’t cut it. I don’t care what kind of personality a player has, so long as he puts out as best he can.

Great to see Schill back. Time to re-sign the guy with the big eyebrows. :)

pangelotti. well said. these guys are pro’s. it isn’t about who you want to go to dinner with. it’s about who gives you the best chance to be successful. do the sox need a-rod for that? obviously not. but you’ll never convince me that having arguably the greatest player in history doesn’t make you better. it certainly doesn’t guarantee anything but it has to make your team more dangerous. the other thing to keep in mind is that this team is pretty well set, positionally, for the next 2-3 years. so you have to ask yourself can they be competitive with a 36-37 yr old lowell 3 yrs from now? again it’s a tough call IMO. he’s never been a real “power” guy and if anything that figures to diminish as well going fwd. in this case i wouldn’t blame mikey for holding out for a 4 ( or more ) yr deal from somebody and i don’t blame theo if he only wants to go 3.

anyone know when announcements of rookie of the year & mvp & cy young come out??

At he same time the Sox announces that it has acquired FA Alex Rodriguez. Ha ha .. just joking.

Well as you’ve all read, Pangelotti kind of “called me out”: he wrote to me on my email. I told him that I have always been a fan of the “working man” type of ball player (can anyone say “TROT NIXON”, I still am a fan of him),like Youk, Pedroia, Tek and the like, you know the kind of guy who doesn’t need to wait around after the game to give the interview or get the pat on the back. The kind that just does his job and gives his all for his team and his team mates. To me that’s not Arod.
pangelotti makes a good point, but while some of you think that Arod would be a fit on this team, I still don’t believe that. You can give me his stats all day long, and I know some of you don’t belive in them, but there ARE intangibles. Like chemistry. Like knowing someones got your back. Sorry, doesn’t sound like Arod to me. About 3 years ago one of the Sox said something about the 04 Sox compared to previous Sox teams. He said, you know, it used to be 25 guys, 25 cabs. Not anymore we all take the same bus! I just can’t see that happening with Rodriguez. I, as you know, will be the first to admit it when I’m wrong; I did it with JD Drew and I didn’t want to accept Pedroia over Mark Loretta when Mark was first gone, but I came out and said just how wrong I was. I will stand by my opinion of Arod until I am proven wrong.

Sorry for taking up so much space, but I am passionate about OUR SOX.

007, I just came back from writing my comment and only saw part of your statement. man, don’t do that!!!lol All I saw was Sox announce/Arod: Man Oh Man, why don’t you just come here and stick a knife in my heart!!!LOL

I don’t care if the media tells me that A-Rod is a jerk or the greatest guy ever, I can draw my own conclusions about him based off of what I see. And what I’ve seen is jaw-dropping power numbers and a “me first, team later” attitude. If this were the Pittsburgh Pirates and I was a fan desperate for some offense, I would jump at the chance to have him. But this team right now does not need him.

I can’t remember who, but somebody said that if baseball was a game played by robots with no intangibles involved, I would accept Rodriguez without thinking twice. But the guy just does not fit with this particular Boston team. You have your stars in Papi and Manny, your leaders in Varitek and Lowell, your grinders in Pedroia and Youkilis. Where does A-Rod fit into this mix? He struggled to find an identity in New York for four years because he was constantly compared against Jeter and had to compete with the limelight with New York’s other favorites (Rivera, Posada, etc.).

I think it would be best for A-Rod to move out to Anaheim and play with the Angels, where he could be the face of the franchise without any competition, be revered when he did well and left alone by the media and fans when he didn’t perform. To me, his style of baseball and personality are perfect for the West Coast.

I had the inkling that the Sox had been talking to Bora$ sometime ago. 1. The Sox did not seem to be too upset about the A-Rod’s the timing of the opt out announcement. The front office merely said it was “interesting timing”. 2. A-Rod would not publicly embarass himself by expressing his desire to play for a team with possibilities of multiple WS wins if he knew for sure that he had no chance for playing with the Sox. 3. Tom Werner used the light term “burdensome” and did not publicly express no interest in A-Rod.
Having said that, I don’t believe that the Sox will sign A-Rod simply because the price tag is too “burdensome”. A-Rod will most likely end up with the LLA as reported in ESPN.

007: from your keystrokes to God ears!!! Please let it be anywhere but Boston!

You know they had Borat in the movies, maybe that was just a takeoff on Bora-ss!

Zachary, about that robot comment, I think was me. I use analogy in regards to human behavior a lot as it makes things easier to explain sometimes. :-)

Anyways, we all need to realize something. Say if Mike Lowell does come back but the possibility still remains that Lugo could get traded and the team goes after A-Rod…what then? I’m wondering what the fan reaction would be to that. Personally, I’d end up back on the fence again to some degree. However, because of seemingly the “negative character” and “me first, team second” attitude A-Rod has, I think I’d be against the deal. Not to mention the exact thing that Zachary just mentioned: A-Rod will struggle to find an identity on the team like he did in NY. In doing so, I’d prefer he doesn’t take the team down with him. He’s a mental case the more I look at him. Him and wife are perfect for each other with their narcissistic tendencies.

I’ll stop now and spare you all the psychotherapy and psychodynamics babble I could go into. :-P :-D

Another thing, with the way the Yankees have handled the A-Rod situation, if the Yankees are not willing to pay that much, then who else will? I know it only takes one team/GM to do the deal, but a lot more GMs will be taking a look at what the market has dictated and presumably go from there. In that light, A-Rod is not worth the 10 years/$35 million a year that he’s looking for. If teams/GMs don’t bite, he’s going to have to take a substantial pay-cut in order to play anywhere.

Buster Olney reported as such on ESPN Radio on the Stephen A. Smith Show earlier today and also added that other agents are quietly yet actively rooting for Boras to lose on this. The way things seem to be going, I think that’s going to be the case. Heck, Boras wanted a set deal before the Yankees could even talk to him and they basically told him to kindly [insert expletive here]. I mean honestly, he thinks there should be a posting price for A-Rod?! Ridiculous if you ask me.

Two things I also heard on WEEI today (some parts of CT get 103.7 FM and 105.5 FM and I just learned about this so I’m pleased to some degree): that the team wants to get Mike Lowell signed ASAP (they mentioned Monday) and that Theo was going to talk to Boras tonight at the GM meetings.

I’m intrigued by what the meeting with Boras means…

Around 19,100 signatures and counting last I checked! :-D

-Raj

http://pacol250.livejournal.com

http://www.petitiononline.com/mikelwel/

I know there has been some mention of Miguel Cabrera at 3B if Lowell doesn’t return, but he’s another one I’m skeptical of.

First off, Peter Gammons reports that a deal to bring Cabrera to Boston would have to involve Clay Buchholz, so count me as somebody who is against that.

Also, Cabrera is overweight and probably one of the worst fielding 3B in baseball. And he has attitude problems which he has constantly been reprimanded for by his different managers.

IF Lowell doesn’t come back (and he is my first choice, far and away), then I would like to see Theo go after Joe Crede. He won’t cost us an arm and a leg to acquire, has shown pretty good pop at the plate (21, 22, and 31 HR in the three years before 2007 where he was injured), and plays an extremely good 3B.

I hope Lowell is coming back. If he doesn’t, it can only mean that Lowell asks for more $$ and the length of the contrcat than the Sox deems reasonable. If that’s case, I won’t be surprised that Theo will have a serious discussion with Bora$.
I am against Miguel Cabrera also. This guy is only 24 years old and is already overweight (imagine 4-5 yrs from now) and plus the Sox has to give young prospect like Buchholz. No way, Jose.

Raj: I have been having a discussion through email with pangelotti regarding the possibility of having both Lowell & A-Rod, and I’m convinced that it’s not going to happen; for a number of reasons. The 1st one being a report that came out a few days back from the Herald that said as much. Also aside from the huge amount of money involved for getting both, you’d then have the trouble of trading Lugo. That would be a nigh on impossible task if you ask me. We’d have absolutely no leverage whatsoever; with the club acquiring Lugo knowing that we needed to get rid of him to accommodate A-Rod. We’d also have to eat some of his contract, ala Renteria. As I said in a previous post, I’m sick of the merry-go-round at SS. Let’s show some patience and restraint for once. Lugo will come good next year.

Regarding the posting fee you mention; have you got a link to that, because I find that very hard to believe. I know he told the Yanks that for a sit down with A-Rod that starting price had to be $350m over 10/11 years (or around that), but that’s the 1st I’ve heard of a posting fee!! I just can’t see that being true.

personally i’m convinced that a-rod wanted out of NY period. or at least away from the bronx. so boras just gave them some number ( if that’s even true ) that he knew they would reject to get it over with. my guess is he gets 28-30 for 8-10 yrs. from somebody.

zach. are you actually suggesting that this team would be better with JOE CREDE than a-rod or cabrerra? i know cabrerra has had some issues but 2 guys who worked with him/managed him ( ozzie and girardi ) have already said publically they’d love to have him so he must not be too much of a problem. i agree with you i wouldn’t give up buch or ellsbury either for that matter. but lester, coco, and another prospect might get it done. although i actually think he’ll wind up with LAA. they have several young prospects, inc. a 3B, to offer.

the goal for all teams is to try and get a lil better each year. based on who is out there, IMO, if boston goes into next year with anybody other than: a-rod, lowell, or cabrerra they’ve taken a step back. a-rod just makes the most sense long term to me. because he won’t cost you any players in return. they have the $$$. that’s a non-issue. plus he’ll be there to fill the power void when manny leaves. when ever that is. same could be said about cabrerra but he would cost a lot in terms of talent.

Considering what Theo would have to give up to acquire Cabrera, yes, I do think they’d be better off with Crede because he’s not going to require a potential front-of-the-rotation starter and another young power arm.

If, as you’ve suggested, they can get Cabrera by using Coco and some other prospects (not including Buchholz, Ellsbury, Delcarmen, Lowrie) then it obviously would make sense.

You’re absolutely correct on the goal for all teams, but I think it would be a step backwards if you downgrade in defense, slightly upgrade in offense, and lose a lot of young pitching.

@simon: I’m only talking about the possibility of A-Rod and Lowell together in the infield. I’m with you on the whole money issue as it would cost a whole lot than it is worth. And yes, it would be very difficult to trade Lugo, especially with his contract and the fact that the Red Sox have wanted him for a long period of time since his Tampa Bay days. I don’t see it happening either, but I was just speaking in hypothetical terms.

As for the whole “posting fee” comment, I’m sorry I meant to re-word that as “it seems like he [Boras] thinks there should be a posting fee for A-Rod.” The keywords there being “it seems like.” The posting fee that the Red Sox paid for Dice-K, in a way, was essentially for being able to negotiate a contract with him, and that’s what this whole “$350 million starting price for a sit down” sounded like. So no, there’s no posting fee for A-Rod, but the whole “$350 for a sit-down” sounded like that to a degree.

@smckinny: Good point about A-Rod wanting out of NY and hence part of the reason he opted out. And I’m 100% with you about Joe Crede. Sorry Zachary, but he’s NOT the answer as he’s been hurt A LOT lately and his production has suffered A LOT due to that and other extraneous factors. If Cabrera can be had without giving up our major prospects and throwing in Coco with that as well, perhaps it might be worth going after Cabrera.

But I will agree that his defense would need lots of work and a change in work-ethic would be a must otherwise he’ll get eaten alive more than J.D. Drew. And all J.D. has is just a lackadaisical-style; there’s no major question about his work ethic.

300 signatures until 2k!

-Raj

http://pacol250.livejournal.com

http://www.petitiononline.com/mikelwel/

well according to the article on the front page boras is seeking a min of 8 & 256 for a-rod so that answers the question about wanting out of NY. no question he could have gotten that, and more, from them.

Who cares about A-Rod!!!

4 years in N.Y. and his team won 1 series. Ever since game 4 of the 2004 A.L.C.S. his bat has disappeared in October.

Dice-K has more R.B.I.’s in the World Series than A-Rod.

Ever since the Yankees got him the Red Sox have won 2 World Series. ENOUGH SAID.

Most people on here are fascinated with this guy, why?

He is certainly one of the greatest baseball players I have ever seen but I have said this several times, this isn’t basketball.

Why would you want to give him that much money for several years?

Obviously those stupid rumors of A-Rod getting part ownership were put out by the most annoying guy in sports, Scott Boras. What a joke, part ownership for a player.

Time for the Red Sox to sign Mike Lowell.

bosox. assuming lowell opts to leave. if not a-rod what would you do at third?

The Herald is reporting of a strong 3 year deal to Mike Lowell. Let’s hope Lowell say’s yes.

smckinny,

Have #13 go to the west coast, no pressure there. He’ll do just well. They will love him!!! He can’t cut it on the eastern seaboard, that is obvious.

This talk about Cabrera and A-Rod will soon be silenced since the Sox will more than likely retain Lowell. If, for some reason, that doesn’t happen, I would rather have Cabrera than A-Rod. No way would I want Joe Crede. The guy can’t stay healthy. The Sox have an abundance of top corner infield prospects in the lower levels of the farm system. One of them will probably replace Lowell at the end of his three-year deal (which is what it will likely be). I don’t see the value in trading an array of top prospects (which is what it will take) to get Cabrera, who is a defensive liability anywhere you put him. This season has proven than defense makes good pitching even better. You can’t just stick someone at first base or third base and expect them to shine. Say no to Cabrera and A-Rod!

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

I meant in my second sentence that I would rather have Cabrera than A-Rod, but also I would rather have Lowell or another option than Cabrera as well.

It seems that things are beginning to fall in place why Arod left the Yanks. When he opted out, the manager’s job was still up in the air and no one felt Torre was treated properly: No one was sure how Petite,Posada, and Rivera would react: when the Yanks had previously announced that if Arod opted out they would not pursue him- hence they drew the line: the Yanks also announced that they would have to be patient, implying that they would have to begin to rebuild. These issues, plus the fact that Arod had a tremendous year and would likely be voted the AL MVP (deservedly so)and command some increase in salary/contact extension, really left him a no-brainer move. As far as loyalty to the Yanks- look what they did to Joe Torre.In addition to Arod’s ego, which one or may not agree that he has earned- I don’t think he wanted to wait for the Yanks to rebuild. I still feel he is driven to acquire a WS ring and this is an advantage that that Bosox can offer that perhaps other teams may not be able to do.
The Yanks ,in a way are in the catbird’s seat. They will offer Arod arbitration- which he will most likely refuse. Then they will acquire draft choices from the team that picks him up. Perhaps the Yanks were not too dumb after all. Of course, Arod may accept arbitation and the Yanks may wind up on the short end of the stick.

In the meantime let’s do what we have to do to sign Lowell. As far as Arod is concerned let us wait and see how things play out.

Well said, pangelotti, “In the meantime let’s do what we have to do to sign Lowell. As far as Arod is concerned let us wait and see how things play out.”
Does anybody remember what Randy Levine’s comment after the Sox lost the ALCS in 2003?

bosox. can’t cut it on the east coast? 2 MVP’s in 4 yrs. you have some pretty high standards my friend. say what you want about the playoffs. without him they don’t get to the playoffs. and i think the yankees pitching ( as in lack of ) and other position players have had a lil bit to do with their struggles since he’s been there.

if lowell is back on a 3 yr deal i’d be surprised. not disappointed by any means but surprised. i think he can get more on the open market ( although i agree that 3 is fair ) but maybe he’s taking the schill approach and staying where he’s happy. if he doesn’t i still think it makes a lot more sense to pay a-rod than ship a bunch of ML prospects to the marlins for cabrerra. either way the position would/could be solidified for the next 6-8 years as opposed to 3 which is the main adv IMO.

My two cents worth.

Yippeee for Schill coming back…not too many proven playoff pitchers out thier, but we have 2. Please god, let us resign lowell, he’s the stuff this year. As for arod, nobody dislikes him more then i do, but what does make sense is that when manny leaves, arod would fill that role nicely…the bad side is the whole persona thing which includes club house **** and him fitting in. Not too mention his non-playoff performances so far…but thankfully we have another year before we have to worry about losing manny.

everybody ( not here but generally speaking ) said the same thing about moss when the patriots traded for him. “he’ll never fit in”, he’s selfish, not team oriented”, etc. well how did that work out so far? being a steeler’s fan i hate to admit it but i’d have to say pretty dam good. some people just need to be in the right environment. if tito’s strengh, as most say, say is managing personalities/people i would think he’d be able to handle a-rod as well. he handles manny and that can’t be too easy either.

OK, I’ve read all the comments and considered all the options and it’s a no-brainer. Sign Mike Lowell to a nice contract. Even the 4 year deal; which on the surface looks bad because of his age, will be better than the other options.
A-rod? No way! He carries an untenable contract, and so much baggage he needs his own personal bell-boy when he travels.

Cabrera? Hmm… no defense and a bad attitude. Can’t keep the weight off. Plus he’ll cost the Sox some prospects. A big NO there!

Joe Crede? I’ll pass, thank-you.

Atkins? I doubt you’d get him without giving up the farm. Not good for the future.

So it seems Jeff is right, you’ll see Theo sign Lowell. And I, for one, will shout out a happy yell. WoooooHooooo!!!

smackinny, how can you root for steeler and not for our beloved 9-0 patriots?

Chow, I’ve been a feverish Steelers fan as long as I have been an unconditional fan of the Sox and Celtics – since I was a very little kid in the mid 70s. There are many Steelers fans who are Red Sox fans, including a couple in my Red Sox Nation Orlando group. The Steelers will end the Patriots undefeated streak on December 9!

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

raj: If they can get Cabrera to put some of the same “fitness/weight” clauses into his contract that Schill put into his,I don’t see a problem, IF (and in my mind that’s a BIG IF) they don’t get Lowell back. Weight has been an issue with Cabrera the past 2 years and it’s been very well documented in the So Fla papers and radio media. Guess there are just too many late night very non-low-fat restaurants here in Miami-Fort Lauderdale area. But a guy who is that young, and has the weight and managerial confrontation issues that he has had, raises some red flags, and I don’t mean Penants.

007. i’m with jeff on that one. they’ve both been my teams since i was a kid in the early 70’s. plus i’ve always hated beliCHEAT. even when he was with cleveland. do have to give brady his props though he’s good. and has excellent taste in girlfriends!

Bosox, I don’t think that Arod won a ring with NY, did he????

Ellen, I think Bosox meant one playoff series, small “s”. That would be the ALDS in ’04. The same year that the unhappy ghost of the Babe took possession of A-rod’s body, rendering him “cursed”. As in “the curse of Arod” that Jeff refers to. And you can check it out. In the last 100 years or so, no team with Arod on its roster has won the World Series.

smck: great numbers for himself, but what about being a TEAM guy, where was he in the past 4 post season series???? Nothing with RISP. He and his white glove need to go to either the Mets or the Angels. (IMO) and I certainly don’t see Tek welcoming the 300 million dollar man with open arms unless one of those arms happens to be connected to his jaw!

said it b-4 i’ll say it again. i can give you a long list of GREAT players players who never won or even went to a world series. a few of whom played for boston. ted williams anyone. one person cannot win a game in baseball. much less a series. has seattle been to the p-off’s since he left? what about texas. look at their record when he was there vs. since he left. i won’t be disappointed at all if lowell is back BUT a-rod or cabrerra make this team much better for a lot longer period of time IMO.

ellen. actually tek was interviewed by jim rome last week and had nothing but positives to say about a-rod. although obviously he wants lowell back. do you really think everybody on boston’s team gets along now? it’s pretty well documented that shill and manny don’t for one. they’re professionals. if nece they’ll make it work.

I saw the interview and I don’t know if I’d call them positives as easily as I’d call them politically correct non-negatives, if you know what I mean.

sorry bosox, with Soxfans, I’m sure you know, lately when we (you much included)hear or read the word series, well you must know what comes to mind.

I would definitely take Miguel over Arod in a “NY minute”, but my heart still lays with Lowell. My husband wanted to buy a Mikey jersey last June for my birthday but I wouldn’t let him due to the fact that whenever I buy a jersey, that player is gone soon after (see Trot Nixon). I’m hoping that I can buy a Lowell jersey proudly in the next few weeks!

The thought of A-Rod playing for Boston does not excite me at all. Then Don Orsillo would have to steal Michael Kay’s “It’s an A-Bomb…by A-Rod!” comment whenever he went yard and I don’t think I could stomach that.

Miguel Cabrera is probably just going to continue to put on weight and come over to the AL as a DH sooner or later since he is pretty awful at defense. I, for one, would love to see the Yankees unload the farm for him and then stick him at 3B. Couple his awful defense with Jeter’s declining range and that left side of the infield would look wide open to hitters.

If Lowell doesn’t get resigned, I am not intrigued by the prospect of moving Youkilis to 3B and hoping to sign a big-name 1B. The guy hasn’t made an error over there since 2006 and there is talk of moving him back across the diamond to 3B? Why?

As Big Papi instructed Theo on Late Night with Conan O’Brien last week in regards to re-signing Lowell: “Theo, do it.”

I REALLY don’t want to see Youk back at 3rd, I know it was his “natural” position, but how many innings without an error did/does he have/has?? I think that he is THE BEST at first and obviously so does MLB, Gold Glover!!

Oh and Zach, I did see Papi on Conan. He just seems so like the every day Joe, and I saw Manny on Leno, they’ve got that car collecting thing in common.

Jeff,

Are you for real when you say the Steelers will beat the Patriots? I think it is time for you to check yourself in and get some help really fast. Your withdrawls of no baseball is really effecting your thought process. LOL…

I think the Bills have a shot against the Patriots. The Patriots will not lose at home, NO WAY. Bills or Giants or nobody will beat them. The Bills with a good break here or there could be 6-2. I do think the Bills might get beat down in Miami, Bills could get caught looking ahead.

One other thing, if Ohio State plays another S.E.C. team in the championship ( L.S.U. will be there will Ohio State ? ) will the Buckeyes get embarassed again? The Buckeyes better hope they don’t play L.S.U.

I do think Michigan will beat Ohio State this year.

Smckinney, your facts are way off around A-Rod… Teams do great after he leaves. Seattle won 116 games the year after he left (a 25 game improvement). Texas improved greatly the year after he left as well (from 71 wins and last place to 87 wins). A-rod is garbage, through and through. Based on this history, we should be scared of the Yankees inevitable improvement.

I don’t get why a 4 year deal to Lowell would be too long. He’s only a year older than JD Drew, who got a 5 year deal last year. I know, I know, some will say that didn’t work out that well. But that was the 1st year of the deal. I’ve got to believe that Lowell would stay for 4 years at $13-14 Mil. per. He made $9+ Mil. last year, Schill made $13 Mil. Now, Schill is scheduled to make $8 Mil. next year. Sounds like $5 Mil. available in the payroll to me. Why shouldn’t it go to Lowell? Sounds right to me.

Hey bosoxbrian, why are you ragging on the Buckeyes. They have lost a grand total of 1 game in the last 2 years, and under Tressel, they have owned the Wolverines. Let’s not forget how the Wolverines embarrassed themselves against that football power Appalachian State U., and then proceeded to go into the tank the next week against Oregon…and both were home games!!! Which of their victories since have given you so much confidence — Notre Dame, Eastern Michigan????

Given the talent that graduated from OSU last year, including the Heisman Trophy winner, I think it’s amazing to see where they are…Numero Uno…Give credit where credit is due.

rayman. i was referring to their ( seattle and texas )level of competiveness as a whole when he was there. not just 1 year. and i think both were better with him than without him overall. like i said if boston gets lowell back for 3 years thats fine with me. i just think LONG TERM there are a couple of better options for that spot. with lowell this team basically is what it was this year for the next 2-3 years. i’m not sure that’s good enough to stay on top because i don’t think you can expect what you got from him this year over the next 3 years. whereas with a-rod or cabrerra you get all that and more pretty much guaranteed. again i’m not anti-lowell by any means. that’s just the only spot they really have an option to get better at in the near future.

Since we’re meandering in the realm of college football, I’ll just throw this in:

No matter what you think of the Big East, it’s turning into a very poor man’s SEC: teams keep beating each other up. As such, how about them UConn Huskies? That’s my school and I’m super impressed. This Saturday’s match-up against Cincinnati will be tough no question, but if they win, I expect them to beat Syracuse and have a tough go of it in West Virginia. IMHO, I think they’ll either go 6-1 or 5-2 in the Big East and win it. If they beat West Virginia, expect a Sugar Bowl invite :-D

And since that’s in the Super Dome, I may just go down to visit family there and go see it if I can. :-D

Anyway, back to the Red Sox, I don’t see WHY people are so afraid of Youk moving to 3B if that ever happens. He’s a Gold-Glover at 1B and I feel he can get acclimated to 3B very quickly, especially considering that it is his “natural position.” If Lowell doesn’t end up with the Red Sox (but I hope he does re-sign), I could see the Red Sox realistically going after Carlos Pena. I don’t expect Boras to be able to get a lucrative deal for him regardless of his past season. Besides, didn’t he mention that he was a BoSox fan growing up? Not to mention the fact that he went to Northeastern as well. So he could be signed by the Red Sox with relatively long-term, yet incentive-laden deal.

Why incentive-laden? Regardless of last season, there are plenty of holes in his swing, especially on any count with 2 strikes (minus a 3-2 count). Not to mention RISP with 2 outs. He’s prone to striking out a lot as well. However, he’s young, and I wouldn’t be surprised Dave Magadan would cultivate hitting patience in him and also not to mention the fact that he’s surrounded by very good hitters.

Because of that, it’s still possible that he could end up at 1B if Lowell does not come back. Sure the Red Sox didn’t bring him back in 2006, but if I remember correctly, Carlos wanted to be a starter, not a bench player. He got that chance in Tampa Bay and he’s shown he can be successful.

Regardless, I wouldn’t be surprised if some team got ******** into paying big bucks for him.

Anyways, enough of my hot stove theories, let’s just hope Mike Lowell’s our 3B for at least the next 3 years.

So we’re at 19394 in terms of signatures…come on folks, just 606 more until 20k! :-D

-Raj

http://pacol250.livejournal.com

http://www.petitiononline.com/mikelwel/

lol. Yes, Brian, I am confident that the Steelers will stop the Patriots. The Steelers have the No. 1 defense in the NFL, and their passing game is more formidable this year, so they don’t have to solely rely on the run, which the Patriots do a good job of stopping. I am 39, and have followed the Celtics, Red Sox and Steelers my entire life. Ditto for Ohio State, so I do not share you sentiment about Michigan.

Arnie, I do believe in The Curse of A-Rod. Hopefully, it does not arrive in Boston. We don’t need another curse now that the old one is gone!

All you armchair general managers, feel free to assemble a team solely composed of available free agents. I did this on Sox and Pinstripes, and it is tougher than it seems.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

has seattle been to the p-off’s since he left? what about texas.

Posted by: smckinny@yadtel.net | November 8, 2007 06:51 PM

Um, ’01 SEA won 116 games. Remember that?

A-Rod went to TEX during ’00-’01 offseason.

Raj, how’re the studies coming? I agree with just about everything you’ve written on here.
Oh and you were right about my “South FLA” comment. Ellen apparently hasn’t heard about the GM’s meetings in Orlando.

Ellen: I AM in Texas. And your point? BTW, I went to 40 Sox games this year. How many (aside from Spring Training) did you see? I attended 9 in St. Pete, 16 at Fenway, 4 in Arlington, the whole series in Arizona and 3 games at the big A in Anaheim. The Red Sox Nation travels, bay-beeee!

If we don’t get Lowell, I still think Youk should move to 3rd (he can handle it just fine) and the Sox should sign Carlos Pena. I saw that kid blast three of them over my head in RF in St. Pete and he made it look easy. Then again, can he hit at Fenway? Gagne proved he couldn’t pitch there, but he looked GRRREAT in Arlington.

Jeff. Good luck to the Steelers. They’ll need all the luck they can get.

Zack: I have to say that I find myself agreeing with pretty much everything you’ve got to say at the moment (well aside from Crede, lol.)

First of all I feel I need to steal a comment from Pete Abe regarding all this Cabrera talk…

“I love people trying to figure a way to get Miguel Cabrera or Johan Santana without giving up actual talent. Most of the trade proposals I’ve seen are apparently based on the other GM being on crack. Sending five Class B prospects to a team does not equal two blue-chippers.”

For everyone wanting Cabrera you know that we’d have to give up Lester & Ellsbury at a minimum right? I wouldn’t be surprised if the fish asked for Ellsbury and Buch either. I would if I were them. If you’re ok with that and we got Cabrera then we’d have to get him to sign a new contract, otherwise we’d only have control of him for 2 more years. That contract would probably be in the region of 5/90. Probably more. If we do all of that, then serious consideration would have to be given to moving him to 1st, because he is an appaling defender, who’s only going to get worse. He’s got a bad work ethic and he won’t stop eating. Last report I saw had him at about 250!!! As Zach said, this guy will be a DH very soon if he gets to the AL. I’ve got 3 words for everyone…

Sign Mike Lowell

jimmaynard3: Carlos Pena isn’t a free agent.

ellen,

When I say A-Rod won 1 series in N.Y. ( 2004 the Yankees beat the Twins in the A.L.D.S. )

I will not write his name again until sometime in 2008. LOL….Way too much talk here about #13, wayyyyyyyyy tooooooooo much!!!!!!!!!

dbenjamin,

If Ohio State plays another S.E.C. team for the national title game, they will get POUNDED again. The Big 10 is weak, 2 good teams, Ohio State and Michigan and that is it.

reading these posts sounds to me like they better get lowell signed otherwise they should just play 3 infielders. nobody wants a-rod or cabrerra yet i haven’t seen any other real options suggested. i don’t consider joe crede evena decent option personally. moving youk, who just won a gold glove at 1B, makes absolutely no sense. maybe they can re-sign kielty and let him play third if lowell leaves. ha!

Bring Bill Mueller back!

Jeff, smckinny: Do you realistically think that Steeler’s defense can/will stop Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Dante Stallworth, and Wes Welker?
Lowell deal will hopefully be announced before next Tuesday. All discussions about Cabrera, ARod, Crede will be moot. The Sox has made the final offer, it’s up to Lowell to accept or reject.

I am sure Theo has Plan B in mind. Trust him.

007. i don’t know that anybody can “shut them down” but the indy game shows if you can pressure on him ( brady ) they are beatable. if pitt can get pressure for 4 qtrs and run the ball well they are the type of team that can beat NE. indy had them they just stopped blitzing as much in the 4th it appeared to me and it cost them.

I want all Sox fans to remember the scene after Aron Boone’s walkoff HR in 2003 ALCS:
While Yankee Stadium erupted in joy, Randy Levine (NYY President) brandished a fist toward the field and screamed, “Take that, you 1918 pieces of (expletive)”

Will it be satisfying to acquire A-Rod substantially less than the Yankees offer?

smckinny: If Lowell does reject the Sox (which is quite likely the more I think about it), then I would (reluctantly) “settle” for A-Rod in the end. I’d just be slightly worried about the contract we’d end up giving him. I defiantly wouldn’t go higher than 8/224, and I’d want an opt-out clause thrown in there after about 6 years.

Regarding Cabrera, despite his once in a generation talent, I don’t want to see him here; for the many reasons I stated in a previous post. It’s just too much of a risk IMO.

Smckinny: What you said about the Indy game is absolutely correct. Bellick wasn’t happy with the game either for the reasons you mentioned. Bellick will find ways to pluck the holes and won’t repeat the mistake 2 games in a row. let’s face it. Pats will find a way to win one way or the other.
I will reluctantly accept A-Rod for 8/200 and no higher.

If the Steeler game was in Pittsburgh maybe but the game is in New England, very little chance for a Steeler win. If the Steelers were in the N.F.C. they would be the team to beat. They are the 3rd best team in the N.F.L.

Tomlin has done a great job.

007, I really can’t see A-Rod settling for “only” $25m a year. Neither will Boras come to think of it.

Certainly impresses the stuff out of me maynard!

..and maynard, I just took what you wrote in the wrong way, pardon my blonde moment about that and the winter meetings location! just as an aside, Orlando is not considered South Florida.

simon, I don’t see that A-Rod will settle for $25M per year either. Hey, if he wants to play for a championship team, he has to give up something, a lot.
The i$$ue with A-Rod is primarily $$$, you don’t have to give up any prospect to acquire him.

I hope that Lowell will take the deal that the Sox put on the table. Seems that he might!!
Re-sign Mikey!

007, well you’d have to give up 2 draft choices for A-Rod. But I get your point.

Jon Heyman over at SI predicts A-Rod will get 10/320 and Lowell will get 4/52. Would anyone want either of those for those prices?

For what it’s worth I think that Lowell figure is about right, which is why I’m having doubts about seeing him a Sox uniform next season.

For A-Rod, the answer is a qualified NO depends on whether Lowell re-signs or not. Lowell for 4/52, reluctantly yes, but prefer to see 3/45.

The formal offer to Lowell, according to our home page is 3 years at 35-45 million. Let’s hope that he gives it serious thought.

Let’s hope that Lowell signs ASAP. That will help our negotiations with Arod should we pursue signing him. If we indeed sign him, as I think we should, we can worry about trading Lugo further downstream.

It’s up to Lowell to accept or not. He should. The Sox is not going to offer more than 3/45. If Lowell rejects it, so be it. I am not going to lose sleep over it.

Like I’ve said previously phil, I’m absolutely convinced that the Sox aren’t going to make a run at both A-Rod & Lowell. It’s just not going to happen. It’ll be one or the other, not both.

@007, why “should” Lowell accept that offer from the Sox? Especially if he can get an extra year and 7-10m. This is his last chance at a big contract, and I wouldn’t blame him at all for holding out for more money.

Lowell should accept the offer insofar as the the terms are reasonable and he ie well liked by the organization and its fans as well as he is playing for a friendly championship team. Hey, if Lowell is materialitic, he will surely get a much better deal playing elsewhere. So be it.
Schil could get a better deal elsewhere but he chose to stay.

The relatively long term contracts that would be signed by Lowell(3 to 4 yrs) and Arod (8 to 10 yrs) would probably be the last of their contract negotiations,and each of their “last big chances”. They will probably base their eventual decisions on what the market will bear.While their relative salaries and time frames are different we should wish each of them good luck and the team(s) that acquires each of them will be lucky.

I would be disappointed but not saddened if Lowell declies the offer. I will not blame the Red Sox organizatiion for not actively pursuing (offer Lowell whatever he wants)Lowell for reasons only known to the Sox ownership and management.

Its hard for me to imagine this kind of money — 3 years @35-45 million is 12-15 mil per year, after Uncle Sam gets his share I assume that is about 6-8 million a year — or around 20-25 net over the three years.

While admittedly it would be difficult to turn down another 7 mil or so, I would think I would want to play where I wanted to play, not go for another several mil when I arleady have way too much money.

But once you get into a life style — you figure you want to sustain a level of living for 40-50 years after you play — add that to all the pressure these agents throw at players and teams, cause they are without a doubt the slimiest and greediest of them all, and you get 1 player after another chasing the highest bidder.

Schil’s the only one I think of recently who hasn’t chased the biggest carrot.

I don’t think Lowell is going to go for a three year deal — he’d probably take a four year deal from the SOX — but he is probably gonna want the extra year.

Still if I were doing the math for red sox managment, and I could have Lowell for 15 mill a year (for 4 years even) — or A-ROD for twice price and twice the years (32 mill a year, 8*32 = 256), its a no-brainer, half the price and half the terms = 1/4 the total cost.

I don’t see the hesitation — but by relatively recent SOX arithmetic, they let Cabrera go under similar strange math — and that has produced nothing but negative dividends (relatively) for four years now.

If they don’t sign Lowell, I think I would prefer another Predoria — some hot prospect than blowing money and risking team karma and chemistry.

In the end, I am not a A-Rod hater, he and/or his agent simply want too much money — there has to be downside to that bloated a mentality — pass!

dgneubert: IIRC we got Ellsbury with the draft pick we got for letting Cabrera go.

Simon – thank you!! — now I can finally release my Cabrera lament !

I wonder if drafting Ellsbury was why they let Cabrera go, knowing they would need the pick to get him, or if it just happen to fall into place. Either way its great to know, just wondering how calculated that move was.

bottom line IMO if the “reported” offer is true and he turns it down he’s just like a-rod. he doesn’t wanna be there. for his age and numbers it’s incredibly fair. yes drew got a bigger deal but that was a mistake. no reason to duplicate it. somebody will offer him more years but i seriously doubt more $$ per year. i don’t hold it against him but it is what it is. he’s basically a RH JD in terms of career numbers. the fact he hasn’t accepted it already makes me think it’s unlikely he’ll be back. so i ask again. is there a better option than a-rod? the $$ is irrelevent because they have it to spend and more. and they wouldn’t have to give up any prospects. well maybe a couple of picks but none already in the org.

dgneubert, I agree. I don’t see any upside to letting Lowell walk. Are we guaranteed to get another Ellsbury? If Theo has to trade, we will lose good prospects. If he signs a free-agent, it will cost the same or more money. Personally, I would have offered 4 years at 60 mil. Mike is a known quantity, he does not have to adjust to playing in Fenway ala Drew and Lugo. I just can’t find a reason to let him walk.

dneubert. the diff is atheletically a-rod ( barring injury ) is a freak. he can prob continue to put up play station numbers for 6-8 more years easily. lowell won’t. that’s why he’s worth the extra time and $$$ IMO. if lowell accepts that offer cool. if he doesn’t see ya as far as i’m concerned. guys like lowell ( in terms of numbers ) show up every year. guys like a-rod are once in a generation.

smckinny, yes you still pass. Its too much money.

The settling logic on A-Rod just doesn’t add up financially — if that is what is driving it in the end.

Lowell 1/4 the cost for the half the year. If the SOX are willing to over spend that kind of money — then why not over spend on Lowell for 1/4 the amount and half the years in risk.

Oh yea, Lowell has three rings — A-Rod – zero. Who knows if we would have won the series without him this year, may have gone 7 or even lost to Cleveland without him.

Bottom line — if we don’t get Lowell, I still don’t see them going for A-Rod — higher money, higher risk – no greater return –less defense, more offense (when it doesn’t matter) — less clutch hitting when it does matter.

There is no way A-Rod makes sense.

Pass.

smckinny: I replied above before I saw your last post.

I see your point about 8 years of production from A-Rod.

And on paper, everything you say is true — but if A-Rod is once in a generation — wasn’t also Bonds, and how many rings does he have? and four years of A-ROD with the Yanks didn’t put them over the top?

These paper/statistics freaks are just not that much better, where they become worth the huge extra investment, and you just can’t measure the drain they put on the team otherwise.

If A-Rod would reasonably humble himself and come it at better value, then sure — but for me — he is asking too much.

If A-Rod comes to the SOX, I will be happy for him, and hope we can give him his first ring — but again, I just don’t see it — if they pass on Lowell, I suspect (and hope) they are passing on A-Rod too (even if on paper he can give you 8 years).

smckinny, while you can compare JD Drew and Mike Lowell in terms of career numers all you want, you have to factor in Lowell being, statistically, the best 3B of all time as well as a huge clubhouse presence. I know you’re not huge on chemistry but I think it’s safe to assume if Lowell was out and A-Rod was in, the dynamic of the clubhouse would certainly change for the worse. And you saw the results in ’05 of what happens when you mess with a team’s core.

I think the Sox made Lowell a very fair offer according to the front page and I hope that he takes it. Unfortunately, if he doesn’t accept by midnight of Monday then other teams will be knocking on his door with more dollars and more years.

And also, why can’t this current team continue to contend for the next 3 years? I see no reason why not. Their starting pitching is only going to get better (considering what you got from Schilling in the regular season, aka not much). Plus the addition of Buchholz, a more seasoned Dice-K, and a healthier Lester. Also, you are upgrading in CF with Ellsbury and after Ortiz’s surgery, I’d expect to see his power numbers back up. Ditto for Manny.

I really don’t think the team this year overachieved in any sense. In fact, they probably underachieved offensively if you consider the poor seasons that Lugo and Drew had.

dneubert. lowell didn’t get those rings by himself. and i think it’s 2 actually ( 03, 07 ). if lowell passes who is a better option than a-rod is my question. he’s as close as you can get to guaranteed production. other than cabrerra who cost much more in terms of prospects. don’t get me wrong i hope lowell agrees. but he’s way riskier for 4 years IMO than a-rod ( or cabrerra ) for 8. especially when you consider manny is there for 2-3 more years at best. and while boston may have some good prospects in the minors i SERIOUSLY doubt they have an a-rod or cabrerra.

zach. by what criteria would you rate him even among the “best of all time”? don’t get me wrong he’s a VERY solid big league player. but he’s nowhere near HOF material. he’s prob barely in the top 5 right now in terms of OVERALL ( off and def ) third basemen. that’s why i say that offer, if true, is VERY fair. and i agree with you this team did, offensively, somewhat underachieve this year. but mikey prob overachieved. factor in him being more towards his career numbers the next 3 years and ells, and possibly manny, adding a lil punch i’d say they likely will net out about the same or imp slightly. put a-rod or cabrerra on the angels and IMO the are right there. plus the yankees in all likelihood will wind up with santana and sabathia after next year. boston will have to keep up with them offensively becasue the will come close in terms of pitching.

Statistically the best ever season by a Red Sox 3B.

Defensively, Lowell is the best 3B of all-time. He has the highest fielding percentage.

The Yankees are going to end up with both Santana AND Sabathia? That’s a scary thought but I don’t see it happening, especially considering Cashman’s alleged new philosophy.

The Red Sox are the team to beat right now. If their lineup remains similar to what it was last year, that is not going to change.

And I really do hope that A-Rod goes to the Angels for two selfish reasons:

(1)They will have 2 high priced guys who can’t hit in the postseason. And then everybody can claim that it doesn’t matter because they wouldn’t be in the postseason with Vladdy and Alex, but at some point, that excuse is going to get old and the players you are paying big money to have to execute.

(2) The Angels haunt the Yankees anyways, but add A-Rod to the mix and he will just pile onto their misery. The only time I will ever want to see Rodriguez succeed is when he is facing the Yankees.

Sorry, I forgot to specify when I said “best of all-time” although I like Simon’s interpretation also.

zach. you may be right. but when you throw out “best of all time” to me that suggests more than def. as for the yankees their new philosophy ( apparently ) is pitching and def. look at all that’s coming off their payroll this year alone. you think they won’t throw stupid money at those 2 next year to upgrade their pitching even more? i agree IF lowell re-ups they will be in good shape. i still think they’d be better with a-rod or cabrerra overall but certainly, with lowell, they wouldn’t take a step back. which they would without any of the 3.

dneubert. can’t argue with you about bonds except to say would SF have come close to what they did do without him? 1 guy cannot do it in baseball. even beckett ( or manny or ortiz ) can’t win a game or series all by his lonesome.

Brooks Robinson is the best third baseman of all time.

Lowell is very good at 3b but don’t get carried away here.

Brooks Robinson is the best defensive third baseman of all time. That is what I meant to write. As I wrote above Lowell is very good but don’t get carried away.

smckinny — I have to admit you made probably the only good point I can think of about A-Rod, and that is I bet we lose Manny at some point soon, and then it would be nice to his bat in the line up.

I don’t think Lowell will carry the team or put up the offensive numbers he did this year as a rule, but I do think he is a post season kind of guy — I knew he was going to have a good post season, and I feel that is a repeated attribute you will get from him every post season we make it. He seems like he can really focus when it counts — so that is why I want to keep him.

Hey, what happened to the Mets — when did that deal crash, or did it — I would take David Wright at 3B.

I think that Papi winning a Silver Slugger Award is great… Yet another award for the Trophy Case!!!

Brian, statistically, Lowell is a better defensive 3B than even Brooks Robinson, which should speak volumes about both how good and how consistent Lowell has been.

David Wright said last year that he would move to 2B if A-Rod came to the Mets. That would unquestionably be the best infield in baseball if that deal actually went through.

dneubert. that’s been my point all along really. manny will be gone in 3 yrs AT BEST most likely. prob less. take that bat out of this lineup and you have the east coast LAA. manny is another rare talent. that’s why if you have a chance to get his successor you do it IMO. as good as the farm system may be i can assure you they don’t have another one of those there.

zach. i’m not arguing with you but somebody needs to explain the gold glove thing to me. because i think brooks had about 20 ( exagearting ) of them and lowell has 2! of course coco had, i think, the same no of errors the last 2 years combined as sizemore had this year alone so go figure.

Don’t compare Lowell’s glove to Brooks Robinson. There isn’t one person with any baseball knowledge would say Lowell has a better glove than Robinson, if they did please check them in and get help. There is huge Mike Lowell love affair going on right now and I’m like everyone else on here and want Lowell to come back but please don’t get carried away and say he is the best defensive third baseman of all time. Lowell is a very consisent third baseman, there is no doubt about that. I look forward to watching him make many solid plays at third with the Red Sox, let’s hope anyway.

Let’s face it- Lowell is a good 3rd baseman. Brooks Robinson was a great 3rd baseman

bosoxbrian:

I recognize that you are from the Southeast, but tell me what you rely on in pummeling the Buckeyes. One of the 2 LSU 2006 losses to the only team (Florida) that Ohio State has lost to in 2 years?

LSU’s victories over Middle Tennessee, Tulane or Mississippi State? Or their narrow victories over Kentucky, Florida, Auburn or Alabama?

While I grant that Ohio State’s schedule is not the strongest this year, in 2006, they beat the reigning NCAA champ (Texas) at their home field after almost beating them in 2005 during the year when they won the NCAA championship. They have lost a grand total of 3 games in the past 3 years, while LSU has lost 5 games during that time. They each beat Notre Dame in a bowl game one year apart.

In the past 3 years, Ohio State lost to the national champion Texas in 2005, and avenged that loss in Texas in 2006, they lost to Penn State in 2005, and avenged that loss in Columbus in 2006, and in Happy Valley in 2007, and are now in the position of avenging their 2006 loss to SEC champion Florida against your 2007 SEC champion (assuming they can get there)

There doesn’t seem to be much supporting your statement other than your regional prejudice. Wouldn’t you agree?

Haha Brian, relax. I keep using the word “statistically” when talking about Lowell being the best defensive 3B yet you are freaking out that I even dare mention it. It’s not my opinion, it’s a fact.

Obviously I’m not so high on Lowell right now that I’ve tricked myself into thinking he’s the greatest overall 3B ever, I would probably say Mike Schmidt or Wade Boggs deserves that honor.

See, THAT is my opinion and something you can contest.

I forget who mentioned it, but I thought Carlos Pena was a FA this season…

Or has he not filed yet?

Anybody want to correct me on that?

And as much as I’ll admit to having a “man-crush” on Mike Lowell, let’s not even get started with the Brooks Robinson comparison. Brooks was in a league of his own. Lowell’s really good, but he’s not quite up there.

@jimmaynard: Studies, well they go. Not bad, just having to re-take the GREs stink :-(

But I’ll deal with it.

So close yet so far from 20k; 19566 and counting!

I’m starting to feel a sore throat coming on…hopefully I don’t get sick. Off to bed I go!

-Raj

http://pacol250.livejournal.com

http://www.petitiononline.com/mikelwel/

dbenjamin,

I grew up in the Boston area and have been only living in Fl. for just over 8 years. It doesn’t matter what part of the country you live in, right now the S.E.C. is the best conference in the nation. Pac 10 is right behind them. If L.S.U. plays Ohio State ( I do think L.S.U. wins out ) L.S.U. will win by at least 14 points. Ohio State will get emabarassed AGAIN. I have no regional prejudice at all. I would say your the one with the regional prejudice. I can tell you BLEED Ohio State football, your fanatical and that is a good thing.

Ohio State is a good program and if you had to give out a national award as the best program by winning pct. in the last 3 years, Ohio State would get it for sure but obviously not happening. Buckeyes better be careful against Illinois but I do believe Michigan and Mike Hart will take down your beloved Ohio State Buckeyes. I do want Ohio State to win out and play L.S.U. and get smoked AGAIN in the B.C.S. Championship game. What will be the Buckeyes excuse this time around? Good luck with your Ohio State Buckeyes in the next 2 games, they might need it.

zachary,

Schmidt, Boggs or Brett you couldn’t go wrong with any of those guys. Those were the GREATS!!!

Raj: Pena isn’t a free agent, he’s arbitration eligible. Beyond that whenever he does get to free agency he’s got Boras as his agent, so he’s not going to be cheap.

Bosoxbrian:

I too grew up and received most of my education in New England. My children received their college education in New England, most of my family resides in New England, I belong to a golf club in New England and we are looking at acquiring a vacation home in New England. I have lived in Northeastern Ohio since coming here for law school in 1974. If it helps you to cover your unsubstantiated opinion by complaining that I bleed scarlett and gray, I guess you need to go ahead.

Truth is, the SEC has 2 teams with 2 losses or fewer, just like the Big Ten. The SEC 3-loss teams tend to be in the national ranking, while the Big Ten teams do not. Why is that? Before one suggests that is the proof, each of those teams has sustained most of its losses within conference. The real test will come when the SEC and Big Ten teams begin to square off against each other in the upcoming bowl games. Before that, your opinion is simply gas.

Now, should you be really serious about upholding your opinion, I will propose a wager. Assuming Ohio State and LSU do square off for the national championship, the winner sends a football jersey to the loser which the loser has to wear for a workday. Ponder that for a while.

Everyone knows the S.E.C. is a much deeper conference. That is pretty much fact, I’m sure most knowledgeable college football fans could tell you that. To me it all goes in cycles, right now the Big 10 is a weak conference from top to bottom. The second best team in the Big 10 ( Michigan lost to App. State— enough said ) That pretty much sums up the Big 10.

You know where I stand if Ohio State plays L.S.U. in the B.C.S. Championship game, Ohio State will get smoked again. My opinion and something tells me it will be fact. I’m rooting for Ohio State ( I still think they will lose to Michigan ) and I can win some $$$$ from some Ohio State fans I know. I took there $$$$ last year and I am looking forward to grabbing there $$$$ again.

I don’t think you would look too good in a L.S.U. jersey. Just my opinion.

Did anyone else see the article regarding Pedroias hand surgery??? His hamate bone was broken all while we wer in the middle of the playoffs.
The term Dirt Dawg comes to mind! Hope he’s up and swinging soon!

ellen,

Actually Pedroia’s injury happened in mid September. Willy Mo Pena had that same injury last year and Eric Hinske had that injury when he was with the Blue Jays. A very common injury among players. Doctor’s usually remove the bone, I don’t know if they did that with Pedroia. Pedroia is certainly one of the tougher players out there, mentally and obviously he can play thru pain. Hats off to Pedroia, he never complained and that speaks volumes of his character. I’m glad he is a member of the Red Sox, there is never enough of players like him. Great job of scouting by the Red Sox.

dbenjamin,

What happened?

Pedroia and Papi are my heroes.
Anyone who can work through pain, injury, exhaustion, sickness(not TOO contagious) and grief, scores big points with me. I’ve seen cooks get some fearsome burns and cuts, and keep on working right through it. Wrap it up until after the rush and then go get stitched up. A chef buddy of mine broke his foot in a drunken tussle with his old Triumph motorcycle. Never went to the doctor(for sissies, he said) and couldn’t take his shoe off ’cause his foot was so swollen. He didn’t miss a shift. 10 hours a day on a broken foot. I have great admiration for that kind of toughness. Hats off to you Papi and Dustin. You guys rock!!!

@simon_cymru: Thanks for the heads up on Pena. So I guess my whole theory about him was a waste of time, lol.

The Big 10 and SEC debate rages on and so I’ll toss in my two cents as I lament my Huskies loss to Cincinnati today (man 27 to 3 hurts):

SEC this year is weaker at the top than usual. At least, that’s my take of it. Although I’m with dbenjamin on this; until we see Big 10 teams face off against the SEC, we won’t truly know. I’m only going to give the SEC a slight edge due to past history.

Man I’m still hurting by my Huskies losing tonight though, so I could care less about the SEC or Big 10…

-Raj

http://pacol250.livejournal.com

http://www.petitiononline.com/mikelwel/

bosoxbrian:

I think I’ll just quietly absorb my beating.

dbenjamin,

Not a bad consilation for Ohio State. Beat Michigan and go to the Rose Bowl. Big payout for the school and Ohio State has most of there starters coming back. They’ll be one of the contenders for the national title next year. One of the things that surprised me was Illinois ran all over Ohio State, I believe 260 yards on the ground for Illinois. Didn’t see that happening, this year in college football has been totally nuts.

L.S.U. and Oregon too meet for all the marbles? Too much yellow for me during that game. Oklahoma and Kansas have a shot as well, I would love too see Kansas but I doubt it. We shall see.

Jimmy Johnson on FOX has been saying for quite a while that Oregon is the best team in the nation. I say they could be the best team that nobody has gotten too see. I have seen them only play in 2 games and one of them they lost to Cal. The other game I saw they POUNDED Michigan back in early September, Michigan I think was still stunned from losing to App. State the week before.

The real difference in $’s to Lowell between a 3/45 and 4/52 is probably close to $5 million and a year of his life. I would think that he could get another year anyplace after the 3/45 for the difference, if he’s still producing. If he’s not then a 4 year deal would be worthless to the team holding it the last year. Who needs that? They should tack an option year on the end, that way they can both feel good about it.

Anyone notice that it’s always a BoSox 3 year offer and a player wanting 4 years? Lowell played 7 years for the Marlins, does he have the right to disapprove trades?

Regarding the Sox/Lowell negotiation, if the difference is 3 vs. 4 years, why not offer him $1-2 Mil. more than he’s asking for the 3 years, and then a 4th year at the reduced balance, with the Sox holding a $1 Mil. option to buy-out the last year. I. E. he wants $13 Mil. per year for 4 years, or $52 Mil. total. The Sox offer him $14.5 Mil. for 3 years or $43.5, and then a 4th year at $8.5 Mil, with a 4th year buy-out for the team at $1 Mil., meaning if the Sox bought him out, he would only need to find a team willing to take him at $7.5 Mil. in his 4th year — Chump change at that point, plus Lowell has had the higher amounts of money during the first 3 years. Seems like a reasonable solution if the team really wants him, and he really wants to come back. Guys, are you listening?

bosoxbrian: I agree I wouldn’t look good in a Bengal Bayou shirt, but that has more to do with the shirt than the wearer. In terms of what is going to happen with the BCS, its always sad when the team you support loses late, rather than early. There is a clear disadvantage to getting back to the Top 2. Clearly, either KU or Oklahoma will absorb at least one loss before the end of the year, but now getting 5 teams out of the way is difficult. Plus, a victory over Michigan will be less valuable after their Saturday loss than it might have otherwise been.

What a topsy-turvy year in college football. However, I will be interested in discussing with you the Big Ten/Southeast Conference bowl game outcomes.

-DMB

Well, my Ohio State Buckeyes lost, but at least the Pittsburgh Steelers improved to 7-2 and took control of the AFC North. I can’t complain about Ohio State. They are consistently one of the best teams in college football year after year, and they have a wealth of young players, so they will contend for a national title next season as well. I disagree with Brian’s assessment about the Big Ten. Four teams are 8-3, and OSU is 10-1. From a records perspective, the Big Ten and SEC are similar. I think the conferences are very close in talent level.

It is interesting living here in Orlando. I am 39, and spent all of my first 33 years in Ohio. People who live in the south have an SEC bias. People who are from the Midwest have a Big Ten bias. The truth is, the Big Ten, SEC, Pac 10 and Big 12 are similar in overall talent. Though you can’t convince most college football fans who live in Florida about that.

I’m ecstatic about the Celtics so far, and I’m pleased with OSU and the Steelers. They will keep me occupied on the sports front until spring training. Of course, as closely as I follow the aforementioned teams, I’m just as interested in whether the Sox will sign Mike Lowell, if they will trade Coco Crisp for Gerald Laird and who they will sign as a left-handed specialist and a right-handed set-up man. Baseball is a year-round sport in Red Sox Nation!

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

I also can’t wait to have some fun razzing Patriots fans when the Steelers send the Pats down to inglorious defeat on Dec. 9. Brian will be shedding tears into his corn flakes when that happens!

Sean: If you’re asking whether Lowell has the right to veto any trades; unless it is specifically written into his contract then the answer at the moment is no. I assume you wondering if he’s a 5-10 player, (players who have the ability to veto any trades, without it being in their contracts), but this only applies to players who have played in the majors for 10 years, with the last 5 being for the same club (Manny falls into this category). If Lowell signed a 4 year contract with the Sox then I assume he would fall into this category as well after the 3rd year of his deal.

Benjamin: I’m not sure if the MLBPA would allow what you are proposing for Lowell’s contract. They don’t like players signing contracts where they are basically taking a pay cut (remember when we tried to trade for A-Rod). Apparently they aren’t too happy with Schilling for signing the contract he did as he’s potentially leaving $6m guaranteed on the table. Therefore I’m not sure if the offer you suggest would be allowed. They might just say offer 4/52 instead if you’re going to do that.

Jeff,

Not much of a chance for the Steelers to win in New England. If the Pats lose it will be on the road not at home. After watching Eli Manning melt in the 4th quarter, the Giants will not beat the Patriots. I still think the Bills will give the Patriots a solid game this Sunday night. I just wonder about the Bills offense or lack there of. The Bills D is pretty solid. The Bills could be 7-2 with some good breaks, they have bounced back and have a chance for a wildcard. The great Bill Parcells has always said “weather can be a great equalizer”. What will the weather be on Sunday night in Buffallo? In Western N.Y. in late November, probably not the best weather. The crowd should be electric in Orchard Park that night. I still say the Patriots survive though.

Ohio State could go from the B.C.S. Championship game to ???? Mike Hart and that Michigan O.L. must be licking there chops after watching Ohio State’s run defense get smoked vs Illinois. Right now among the major conference’s, the Big 10 is the 4th best, obviously they are ahead of the Big Least and the A.C.C.

Looking at the remaining schedule (BILLS, Eagles, RAVENS, Steelers, Jets, Dolphin, GIANTS), I just don’t see how the Pats will/can realistically lose a game considering the Steelers barely got by the Chargers. Bills’ offense scored 13 points agisnt the miserable Dolphins. Giants is an imposter.
It will be Pats v. Cowboys or Packers in the Superbowl.

still. no word on lowell. i would guess he must have a pretty good idea that he can get a 4-5 yr deal form someone. that has to be the issue. can’t believe it would be $$$ per year. oh well i guess it wouldn’t be a normal year without some question on the left side of infield.

YAY FOR PEDROIA! :)

Great new about Pedroia!!! He truly deserves it.

Okay, it’s 2 hours 45 minutes until our exclusive talk rights end.
COME ON MIKEY, ONE TIME FOR THE NATION!!!!

WE LOVE YOU MIKE LOWELL!!!!

So who was calling for Pedroia’s transfer to the minor leagues?

I might have been, but I honestly don’t remember. I do remember saying we should sit him for a bit.

Regardless, I’m going to eat my humble pie and take seconds too.

Congrats to our RoY, Dustin Pedroia!!

However, I feel that Troy Tulowitski got robbed in the NL. I HATE how the writers a just big hypocrites. If the RoY is essentially the MVP for rookies, then why not take fielding into consideration like they do in the MVP? Tulo was near perfect at SS no less. Ryan Braun, the winner was nowhere near as slick a fielder.

So Rockies fans, my heart goes out to y’all. Such garbage that Braun won it with only slightly better offensive numbers.

Anyway, the petition is a little less than 300 away from 20,000. I need to figure out a way to get this to Red Sox management and Mike Lowell himself (with a personal letter enclosed as well), ASAP.

Any suggestions on how to do so?

-Raj

http://pacol250.livejournal.com

http://www.petitiononline.com/mikelwel/

It’s past midnight. Lowell’s testing the waters. The way I see it, no matter who ends up at 3rd for the Sox, we’re still going to the WS next year. Lowell would be a ******* to pass on a chance to be a Sox 3B and be a part of that. But money talks, right? (How’s it feel to have deep pockets and go golfing in October, Damon?) If Lowell signs elsewhere, even with the pinstripes, I wish him well. Where’s Kevin Millar when you need him?

Whoops! Did I just say Kevin Millar? I meant Bill Mueller. Hey, I’ll take ‘em both! BTW, I saw them together last week in AZ. Would have liked to have shot a round with ‘em but the wife had me dressed in a penguin suit for a wedding instead. Red Sox nation travels, bay-beeee! We’re everywhere. We’ll be in Cocoa Beach, FLA this weekend, so maybe we’ll take the Donzi down to Miami and hunt ol’ Mikey L. down….feed him some of my special Texas b-b-q baby backs and tell him how much the Nation is countin’ on his return.

well i’d say it’s pretty probable that lowell is gone. obviously if theo was gonna cave and give him that extra year he would have already done it. kinda disappointing but not surprising really. be very interesting to see what plan b is.

smckinny,

Plan B is your pal/hero #13, I refuse to write his name on here unless Plan B has arrived and it hasn’t yet. Lowell is looking for a 4 year deal and he will not get that in Boston, I agree with them. I wouldn’t give it as well but then again I wouldn’t have given Drew 70 mill for 5 years last winter.

bosox. i hope your right about plan b. at least then that position will be solidified for the forseeable future. plus it won’t cost a ton of prospects. i agree on lowell ( not going more than 3 ) and drew for that matter. i still think the drew deal was connected to dice-k agreeing to a 6 yr deal. but either way no reason to compound the mistake.

If Lowell signs with another team, it could only be for reasons known to the Sox organization. It is not just be the question of $$ and 3 or 4 years. I would compare it to the leaving of Damon and Pedro and more. We will see how serious Theo is in pursuing Lowell comparing the terms Lowell signs with another team. If Theo let Lowell walk, I have the sneak suspicion that it may have something to do with the upcoming ……I hope I was dead wrong.

007chow,

The reason Damon and Martinez left were because of the $$$$. Both the Yankees and Mets offered the 4th year and they both took it, I don’t blame them.

I really doubt Lowell will end up in NY. He’d have about 200 flyouts to left field there and the fans would kill him if he ever had the kind of slump he had in the second half of 2006. Philly is a nice, tiny, joke of a ball park that he’d still hit 20 homers in.

bosox, no question Damon and Pedro left for $$$ and Theo was unwilling to match the offer because these two guys were too injury prone. Theo was right.
I would be disappointed but not saddened by Lowell’s departure. I trust Theo’s judgment.

I agree entirely that Theo was right not to match the Mets or Yankees offers to Pedro or Johnny D. I agree that with Pedro, it was injuries, but I think with Johnny D., Theo saw Johnny’s advancing age impairing his skills. Watching the Yanks try to find a place on the field for Johnny to occupy, while still leading off has convinced me that Theo was right in both situations. No doubt he knows his baseball.

However, with Lowell, I think its different. Lowell not only brings offense perfectly suited to Fenway (the doubles machine), he brings superb defense as well. Think about all of those rockets hit at him during the play-offs that he turned into routine outs. With a lesser defensive 3rd baseman, perhaps those are running-scroing doubles. This is defense the Sox won’t get out of Cabrera or A-Rod. Lowell’s not injury-prone, as he has batted at least 492 times each year since 2000.

Beyond that, with A-Rod, how do you explain to Big Papi that A-Rod is 3 times (salary-wise) as valuable as Big Papi is? How do you handle the salary expectations in the youngsters as they begin to approach salary arbitration time? Do the Sox want to lose Pap in his prime because of the amount of money A-Rod is being paid? In his mailbag responses today, Ian Browne commented on the smoothness of the clubhouse due in part to the fact that the players get along. I’m sorry, even presuming that A-Rod is a nice guy, the amount of his salary is going to cause resentment among players who have distinguished themselves. The Sox won 1 world championship with Bill Mueller at 3rd, and another one with Mike Lowell at third. They don’t need what A-Rod can bring, as long as the 3rd baseman hits in the clutch.

As for Cabrera, the Sox have become so formidable in large part because of their pitching, not their hitting. Acquiring Cabrera is going to mean parting with one of their key pitching prospects. Imagine the Sox parting with Clay Buchholz, and then Jon Lester sustains an injury, or vice-versa. Let’s go back to the beginning of 2006, when the Sox were so confident of the depth of their pitching that they parted with Bronson Arroyo, then had most of their pitching staff come up lame: Wake, Schill, Clement, etc. You never, never have enough pitching.

As for Lowell’s age, if in the 3rd or 4th year of Lowell’s contract he slows down, you can always shift him to 1st base and have Youk go back to 3rd. Or, the Sox could renegotiate Hinske’s $5.5 Mil. deal, and bring him back as a super sub, at a $3-4 Mil. per year savings. I recognize that there are also promising players in the minors, like Jed Lowrie and Brandon Moss, so I don’t think the Sox need the years that A-Rod can project (even if next year is Manny’s last year in a Red Sox uniform).

Come on Theo, while your decisions to pass in the past have been correct, this is the time to pick up the check. Either give Lowell the 4-year contract he wants, or give him a contract in which the Sox over-pay him in the first three years, then give him a reduced amount in the 4th year, with the Sox holding an expensive ($1 Mil. perhaps) option to buy out, leaving Mike L. easily able to market the remainder of that 4th year elsewhere.

With what the Sox have already on the field and loaded up in the minors, I think this is clearly the way to go. Give Mike Lowell what he wants now!!!

dbenjamin, I agree. Theo is not genuinely interested in re-signing Lowell if he let Lowell go. The big question is why. Theo is surely aware what you were saying. Perhaps he knows something that we don’t. Or is Theo infatuated with A-Rod?

So it does seem like Lowell is testing the waters. Honestly, I’m not surprised and in fact, I expected this to happen. I’m sure Lowell and his agent want to see what is out there.

@007chow: Personally, I really hope Theo isn’t infatuated with A-Rod and just knows something we as fans simply don’t know.

@dbenjamin: You said exactly what I’ve been thinking. Especially about the part about making the most money in the clubhouse and having that affect the youngsters. I would think Theo & Co. would not be so stupid to commit all that money into a single player. They’d be hypocritical to do that. As for Cabrera, I’d see them actually putting him at 1st and moving Youk to 3rd. Personally, I see that as a bit counter productive, but that seems to be the best way to go about things.

However, I’d rather the team not give up great prospects like Lester and Buccholz. If anybody listens to any of the sports talk radio in and around Boston, some of it is just plain stupid. Some of the hosts are still drunk with winning 2 WS in 3+ years and are willing to drop the young talent we have to get Cabrera or Santana even. Why? Baseball is about the long-term and our team’s talent is so good that we can easily contend and win without a big-name star.

I just hope Mike realizes that we as fans want him back more than any player we’ve had recently and I really hope both sides can come to a compromise. Hopefully, Lowell is just testing the waters to get the 4th year he probably wants. If he’ll take more years for less money, I’d do it.

-Raj

http://pacol250.livejournal.com

http://www.petitiononline.com/mikelwel/

boo beckett didn’t win the cy young — if there was a post season cy young award, he would have won hands down.

It doesn’t matter if Beckett didn’t take home the Cy Young, we all know who the better pitcher is. Josh beat Sabathia twice where it matters most-the post season.

I have a bad feeling Pay-Rod is shopping for New England real estate the longer Lowell remains a free agent.

This is why I think the post-season stats should count. Sabathia melted in the playoffs and Beckett blew everyone away.

Who in there right mind would give Beckett a 3rd place vote? He got 4 3rd place votes, are you kidding me?

pacol250:

I wouldn’t go so far as to say the Sox can win again without big name stars. I think having the LCS MVP, the WS MVP, 1B Gold Glover, the Rookie of the Year, the Cy Young Runner-Up (even as a resident Clevelander, I think the wrong choice was made, although it will probably cost the Sox less in bonus money payments), and the perennial DH Silver Slugger gives the Sox a few “big name” stars, not to mention Tek and perhaps Ellsbury. And I don’t mean to suggest that the Sox shouldn’t look at what is available.

Santana has been an awfully potent pitcher over the last several years, and lefthanders like that are hard to come by. I might be tempted to part with one of the Sox pitching prospects (not Pap) and some other prospects for Santana, so long as I was confident that his slowdown in the 2nd half of last year was not reflective of some larger problem that will only get bigger. But I wouldn’t recommend making a deal just to make a deal.

The Dodgers need an A-Rod kind of run production in their line-up. The Angels need someone to protect Vlad, as Papi and Manny do for each other. But for the Sox, the A-Rod salary numbers are so enormous, that I don’t think he, salary and all, will mesh within the team structure. As I said in my earlier post, I don’t think they need that much offense at 3rd base to accept lesser defense and a doubled/tripled salary commitment. Not even if I could guarantee that A-Rod would break the career home run record in Fenway Park (wouldn’t that be a twisted way to bring the spectre of Babe Ruth back to Fenway, through A-Rod, former Yankee?). How many more seats can the Sox sell? With this year’s WS win, it is all but assured that they will surpass the Indians’ record number of consecutive home game sell-outs.

Once again, make the deal Theo!!!

Beckett got robbed in the Cy Young. I looked up some stats and roughly concluded:

Sabathia’s ERA against teams with a record above .500 was around 4.30.

Beckett’s ERA against teams with a record above .500 was around 2.50.

I could have miscalculated, but I’m sure those are the rough numbers. So you tell me who’s the better pitcher? Beating up on patsy teams is lame padding of one’s record.

@bosoxbrian: I’m with you on that one. I have no idea who would cast 3rd place votes for Beckett. Again, the baseball writers again fail. First robbing Tulowitski of the NL RoY and now robbing Beckett of the Cy Young.

Sometimes I wonder if they even look at the quality of work…

@dbenjamin: I didn’t mean to say that the Red Sox can win without a few big name stars, I’m just saying that young talent in droves is better than just one young talent. Plus another thing: young, talented, pitching. That is a rare commodity to have in baseball whereas it’s easier than that to find great young hitters.

It doesn’t make sense to give up more than even one prospect for Cabrera. So what if he’s proven he can hit? He’s got other negatives surrounding him (e.g. weight, work-ethic) that outweigh the experience factor that our talent may not have.

And in the case of Lester, he won a WS game; therefore, along with considering what he came back from and how his season and even life were in doubt due to cancer, you can’t let him go. Plus he’s a left-handed pitcher; those are even harder to find.

-Raj

http://pacol250.livejournal.com

http://www.petitiononline.com/mikelwel/

Oh another thing about Lowell:

His agents are the same agents that represent Jorge Posada. Consider his position and his age, they may bargain hard against the Red Sox for Mike Lowell using Posada’s contract as a slight example.

Let’s hope not and hope Mike really wants to come back to Boston.

I know I want him manning that hot corner.

-Raj

http://pacol250.livejournal.com

http://www.petitiononline.com/mikelwel/

I guess we can’t win them all, but for Beckett to lose out to Sabathia in the Cy Young voting…… WOW.
I’m flabbergasted, stunned and a thousand other things.

wow.

If the Sox are really serious about pursuing Arod– by not signing Lowell puts them in a poorer bargaining position with Arod. I would have preferred giving Lowell that extra???; signing him and then pursuing Arod, from a more negotiable position as and add on, rather than as a necessity.Let’s hope Theo is making the right decision(s).

I think the Sox made Lowell a fair offer. I think it was thought out well and not just emotionally based on what he did this past season, but on his past as well. What he did this year was extraordinary and probably not the norm. If he follows up by hitting .290 with 100 RBI’s, that would be wonderful, and that’s what the Sox should pay for. With those number, I’d love to have him back.

What scares me is that Santana is available for trade and the Sox might back up the bus and unload the likes of Bucholz, Lester and Ellsbury to get him. Then next year they’ll back up the Brinks truck and unload a ton of cash to keep him. He’s a great pitcher, but Bucholz has the potential to be as good or better, Lester is a solid 4 or 5 starter, and Ellsbury is a star for years to come.

Theo has a championship team in the bag that will only get better as the youngsters develop. He needs to be very careful about going after big named players. If they keep Lowell, the Sox don’t need Santana, Cabrera or A-rod to win again.

Sadly, I fear we’ve seen the last of Mike Lowell in a Sox uniform. The deal the Sox offered was just not good enough. Compare it to Drew’s salary and the length of his contract, and you’ll see that it was one of those times when Theo does not care. If Mike had signed , it would have been a bargain, if not, well too bad. The problem with that is the market is a little thin. Any where you turn, you either give up prospects or a huge salary. To me this is a mistake by Theo. Maybe Theo has a woody for Arod(like one of the bloggers here) and he just doesn’t care if Lowell stays or not. Or maybe he prefers that Mike leave. But Theo certainly couldn’t come out and say that.
My guess is Theo already has a deal worked out somewhere, and we’ll find out soon enough.

Too bad! I liked Mike!

Perhaps the Sox can offer Lowell a four year contract with the fourth year incentive-based similar to what they signed Schilling to. The fourth year can be offered at a lower salary than the three preceding years with the possibility of making even more $$$ than the prior three years based upon performance that third year.

If Lowell signs elsewhere, Theo must be offering Lowell the contract he will refuse. Theo knows Lowell’s value both in the field and in the club house and yet still let him go. Theo must, as arnieschmo writes, have a deal worked out somewhere or have some inside information about Lowell that we fans are not privy to at this time. We will find out.

Ok first things first, the CY award today. The writers made the right choice in my opinion. Yes Beckett was awesome this year, but overall Sabathia was better. If you looked at it objectively, instead of as a Sox fan, then I think you’d have drawn the same conclusion as the writers made. You’ve got to remember that we’ve still got the post-season heroics fresh in our memory for Beckett, and a mighty collapse (twice!!) in the post-season for CC. Of course if your including the post season then Beckett would have been a worthy winner, but it doesn’t work like that (unfortunately). Personally I’m much happier that Josh got himself a ring over the CY, and I’m sure he feels the same way.

As for Lowell, I think it’s safe to say our goodbyes to him now. We’ve offered him 3 years (reluctantly I might add) and he’d like 4. Absolutely nothing wrong with that in my opinion, so I think it should just be… thanks for everything Mike and good luck in the future. No matter what anyone here says I find it very hard to fault any of the sides in this situation.

I disagree completely 007. I think it’s simply the fact that the Sox aren’t willing to stretch further than 3 years, and Lowell wants 4. Like I’ve said above, absolutely nothing wrong with that from both sides imo.

Simon, I agree with you on Lowell except for one thing. I feel it will be too expensive to replace him than to sign him for 4 years. Normally I like Theo’s approach: here’s our offer, we feel it’s a good one, take it or not.
But this time the options are not as good. Who else is out there whose names aren’t Arod, Cabrera or Crede? But, you know, Theo may know a whole lot more than we do what’s out there. Haha.

Let’s hope he has a good deal worked out to replace Lowell.

Maybe Moss is playing a great 1st base(in winter ball) and we’ll see Youk at third, who knows?

as for lowell. if he turned down that offer over 1 additional year as i’ve said b-4 about a-rod and NY he simply is not that interested in staying. period. he WILL/WOULD stay on his terms but that’s it. i agree. i think it was a fair offer. actually 15MM is more than fair IMO. will someone give him that additional year? absolutely. BUT he benefited greatly from playing in fenway. his avg was 100 pts higher at home. he can be replaced and actually improved upon offensively by several guys. and as for a-rod’s defense he had fewer errors this year than lowell and i believe he has at least as many, if not more, career gold gloves. i like lowell a lot but if he doesn’t wanna be there, see ya!

moving a gold glove first baseman would be crazy IMO. boston has plenty of cash. they can afford a-rod and still do anything they want in the future. that to me is the simple quick answer. not because i have a man crush on the guy. it just simply makes the most sense. not just for next year but the next 6-8 years. when manny will not be there. well that and he’s ( a-rod )the best player on the planet. did i mention that? giving up a bunch of prospects for cabrerra, especially prime pitching, is very risky IMO. because you never know when you might get into a kerry wood/mark prior situ and need those guys.

Arnie I have absolutely no doubt that Theo knows more about what’s out there than we do lol.

Smckinny – I honestly don’t see the comparisons between A-Rod & Lowell. Totally different in my opinion. FWIW we reportedly offered Lowell 3/36, so 12m a year. Put yourself in Mikey’s shoes, if you thought you could get an extra 16m say on the open market, do you really think you’d turn that down.

smckinny,

You admitted your man crush on #13. That is the funniest thing I have ever read on here.

I’m not in favor of giving up a bunch of prospects for Cabrera. Cabrera has a chance to eat himself out of baseball. He needs to learn 2 words ” I’m Full ”

Signing A-Rod for all that $$$ I am not in favor of. When the owner John Henry has him at his house ( back in 2003 ) I would think the Red Sox love affair is still there. Something tells me smckinny your not the only one that has a man crush on #13.

I just wrote #13 name, I will wash my mouth out with soap.

simon. you’re right on both counts. 1) there is no comparison between lowell and a-rod. there’s no comparison between a-rod and anybody in terms of numbers. 2) no i don’t blame him for turning it down. my point was, just like in the damon situ, if he REALLY wanted to be there ( i.e. schill ) he would have taken it. scill could have easily gotten 13mm+ guranteed in today’s pitching market. i also don’t blame theo. this was a carrer year for lowell and he’s not likely to approach those numbers again. especially if he leaves fenway. like i said. IMO it was a very fair offer. lowell wants to grab a few extra $$$’s more power to him.

bosox. you’d think you’re stoking the checks for the sox. THEY HAVE THE MONEY. luchino already said as much. he just said it would simply deviate from their business model. not that it would impact them negatively in any way. and i said i didn’t have a mna crush on him. it just makes sense. you know you can’t wait to buy that #13 sox jersey.

Time will tell about the Steelers and the Patriots. The Steelers play well on the road, so playing in New England will not be intimidating to them. And the Steelers have the running game to control the clock, and the defense to effectively matchup with Brady and his arsenal. I am as confident that the Steelers will win as you are that the Patriots will win.

Regarding Lowell, I firmly believe the Sox should do what it takes to sign him, even if it means four years and $48 or $52 million. As I wrote in today’s post, some players are worth overpaying because of what they mean to the team.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

jeff. you’re right about the steeler’s being the “type” of team that can present problems for the golden boy and beli-CHEAT. however, you do realize they lost to Az. and denver on the road right? they will have to play MUCH better thamn they have to this point. as for lowell i have to disagree. you can find several guys to give you .285/20/80-90 and that’s pretty much what he will do in all likelihood over the next 3-4. that’s if he does well. you can’t find anyone else who gives you what a-rod does in terms of stats. and i don’t think you’re taking into account manny not being there too much longer and he’s not getting any younger even if he was. is lowell a great guy? by all accounts yes. but again if he loved boston that much he wouldn’t hold them up for 1 more year. it’s a very fair offer for a 34 yr old with his career numbers IMO.

Jeff, it should be interesting to see how what is now the best offense matches up against the best defense. Interestingly, the Steelers are about the 5th ranked offense and the Pats the 5th ranked defense.

I think the Pats will try to take the running game away and make Big Ben be the playmaker. With Seymour at 100 percent by then, he Wilfork, Warren and Green will make things tough for Willie Parker. While Big Ben is a good player, he is no match for Brady and the Patriots arsenal.

The Steelers are 2-2 on the road this year having lost in Denver and Arizona and they have not fared well in NE for some time.

Now back to baseball. I think Mikey would be crazy to take the Sox offer without exploring what’s out there. If nothing else, it gives him and the Sox a better idea of what his market value is. Here’s the key though. If Mikey really wants to stay in Boston, he should bring the best deal he gets back to Theo and give him a chance to match it. If Theo refuses, then Mikey justifiably leaves for a better deal and there’s nothing wrong with that. He will at least have given the Sox every shot at signing him.

There’s a huge difference between Schilling and Lowell. Schill is at the end of the line. He can make his 13 mil with relative ease if he performs and is in shape. Mikey still has a few years left and this is his last opportunity to score. He deserves that opportunity. He’s been a good player for a long time.

Jeff,

How could you say the Steelers play well on the road. They play well at home but on the road, I don’t think so. That is one game I am not worried about. I do think this Sunday’s game vs the Bills will be close. Everyone thinks it will be a easy win for the Pats but I am not one of them.

If Lowell gets a 4th year from a team, his agents will come back to the Red Sox and say match it. The ball will be in the Red Sox court and they will have to match it go to plan B.

smckinny,

I would not get my #13 jersey, no way.

Jeff,

Your withdrawls are really effecting your judgement. Steelers winning at New England, now that is funny!!!

@simon: Before I make my point, I’ve been “politicking” for Beckett to win the Cy Young for a long time so it’s not just me being a Red Sox fan. Sure that may be the case for some, but I’ve been doing a numbers crunch for a long while now. I will agree with you that I’m sure he’s happier having another WS ring to add to his hardware, but I’m sure deep down it bothered him a little bit.

Regardless, I feel that the quality of the body of work both players had was not taken into consideration as much as it should have been. Just look at my post previously and you’ll see.

@gsm52: Yeah, good point. Basically what seems to be happening now is some negotiating I’d assume. I’m sure Mike wants to know what’s out there for him, which is quite fair. So we’ll see in a couple of days what happens. IMHO, the Red Sox should spring for the extra year and just do it.

-Raj

http://pacol250.livejournal.com

http://www.petitiononline.com/mikelwel/

@bosoxbrian: Stop being a Patriots fanboy and realize that the Steelers can win at Foxboro. The possibility is there. So stop being silly :-P

FYI, I have no real allegiance to any team. If I was forced to pick, I’d pick New England out of sheer geographical closeness, but that’s really it.

I still feel that New England will win the game simply because they have been ridiculously good. Plus parts of my fantasy football team include: Brady, Welker, Stallworth. I think I can see first-hand how good my team is.

Sadly I’m still in second because I simply was not around to draft so I had to auto-draft and I got screwed out of a running game.

Anyway, enough football for now.

-Raj

http://pacol250.livejournal.com

http://www.petitiononline.com/mikelwel/

I do realize the Steelers lost to Arizona and Denver – both games they should have won. They tend to play down to their competition. The Steelers traditionally play well on the road. That is what I meant. And the Steelers obviously are not impacted by inclement weather, especially since the running game is strong. The Patriots are solid. So are the Steelers. It will be a tightly contested game.

My early prediction – Pittsburgh 24, New England 20

Jeff,

You said both the Steelers and Patriots are solid. Steelers yes but I wouldn’t say the Patriots are solid, you are watching one of the best teams of all time. The most dominating team ( 1 season only ) the 1985-86 Chicago Bears, that team beat your brains in. This team ( Patriots ) is beating your brains in but in a different way.

Why is it the Packers and Brett Favre throw a t.d. pass with more than 5 minutes to go and the game already over but when the Patriots do it they say they are running up the score. You gotta love the media, pick and choose.

I am a big fan of Mike Tomlin. He was a defensive backs coach with the Bucs for several years and everyone loved him down here. For his sake I’ll take it easy on you Jeff.

Patriots 34

Steelers 17

Sorry Jeff, don’t cry too much into your wheaties.

Raj,

There is no team that is going to go into Foxboro/Foxborough and beat them. I don’t see it happening. This team is on a mission and they want to beat down anyone in there path. The Colts played them well and the Colts should have won but the Patriots made the plays when it mattered the most. How many times have we seen the Patriots do that over the years? The San Diego playoff game comes to mind, they had no bussiness winning but at the end they pulled it out.

lol. I don’t eat Wheaties. I drink a protein shake for breakfast. I’m a fan of Tomlin as well. The Rooneys know how to select a coach, and the Steelers know how to draft, that’s for sure. This Patriots team is very good, but no comparison to the ’85 Bears or the Steelers teams of the 70s. The Patriots will end the season with two losses.

i will have to say i don’t think r-berger is getting enough credit this year. he is the #2 rated passer in the league yet all you ever hear about is the running game and def. he can throw the ball very effectively. i think it all boils down to 1 thing. indy proved if you can get pressure on brady he’s as human as the rest of them. they didn’t in the 4th quarter and it cost them. pitts is a great pass rushing/blitzing team and they are much imp overall offensively. they can win. but it will take a close to perfect game.

You also have to keep in mind that the Patriots have beaten teams by such a wide margin because Belichick is an advocate of running up the score. Most coaches have integrity and just run the ball and drain the clock when they have a big league, much like the Steelers did against the Ravens a few weeks ago. The Patriots pad their stats.

Like I said, I don’t question that fact that the Pats are a very good team, but they are not one of the all-time best. They have only beaten two teams of substance – Indy and Dallas. I believe they will lose to the Steelers and the Giants.

I look forward to seeing how the season plays out. To be honest, I am pleasantly surprised about the Steelers. I thought they would be an 8-8 team this season, and contend next year, but they are a contender this season. I will be happy if they finish 11-5, which is where I project them.

I agree, smckinny. Big Ben cannot throw interceptions. He needs to be pinpoint accurate, and he often is. But when he is bad, he is very bad. I think Parker will rush for 100 yards, and the Steelers will eliminate the Pats running game. It will be tough to stop Brady and his receiving corp, but if the Steelers control the clock, which they often do, they can keep Brady off the field.

with lowell i think it’s crazy to assume he’s going to come back to theo and get what he wants personally. theo knows, with reasonable certainty, what he will get on the open market. it boils down to that extra year or possibly 2. he wouldn’t do it beforehand so i seriously doubt he’ll do it after the fact. theo had a number in mind and if he went for it fine. if not go to plan b. or as bosox likes to call plan b, a-GOD.

The Celtics are certainly helping me deal with my baseball withdrawal. They could be 6-0 after tonight.

While I also wish Beckett had won the Cy Young, frankly, I am not surprised. There were a lot of comments around here in Cleveland that Sabathia deserved it because down the stretch he went head-to-head against Santana several times, and beat him. I scratched my head and wondered about the fairness of that comparison, given that with Beckett being in a different division, his team just didn’t play against Santana’s much, and then when they did play against each other at the very end of the season, Santana never pitched. Beyond that, when the Sox needed a win against the Yanks during the September series, Beckett got it for them over another 19-game winner, CM Wang. I just felt the “CC beat Santana” thing got played up to an unfair advantage, and is the main reason that Beckett finished second.

But I totally agree with the Question about who on Earth could rate Beckett’s performance this year as 3rd best. Those writers should be checked for use of illegal substances, as they had to be on glue or something similar.

As for the Patriots losing to the Steelers, I highly doubt it. The only game I have seen them lose that they had to win was last year’s AFC championship vs. the Colts. With the lead late in the game Brady looked mortal as opposed to the “S” he always seems to have on the front of his jersey. When they encounter the Steelers this year, they will believe they have to win the game to maintain home field advantage throughout the play-offs, and will win.

But Jeff, who else are they going to lose to? Miami? Man-goofball’s team the Jets…the Giants who just got pasted by a Dallas team the Pats pasted (on their home field) just a month ago. I could understand the possibility of them resting the first teamers against the Giants if they went into the game with a 15-0 record and wanted to keep everyone healthy for the play-offs…then maybe, although the Giants wins have come at the hands of the NFL’s version of the “Little Sisters of the Poor.”

But if you’re right and the Pats lose to the Steelers, the Pats would likely go into the last week of the season needing to secure their 15th win to secure home field throughout the play-offs, and will make the Giants look like a college Division III team.

Hello everyone – I am a loyal Red Sox and Patriot fan living in STEEL TOWN. Yes that’s right, Pittsburgh. In 2004, I had 3 tkts to watch the Steelers @ home play the Patriots. I proudly wore my Tom Brady jersey and went with 2 friends who are Steeler fans. In this game and the Steelers killed the Pats 34-20. Man … that hurt. SO I say…….Go Pats ……and please drive up that score against them “Stillers”- (pittsburghese for Steelers)

I thought this Blog was for the Red Sox/Baseball. Isn’t there a Blog for football discussions??

Jeff,

This Patriots team is going to go down as one of the best season’s of all time. This day and age with free agency/salary cap, nobody thought it could happen. Of course the Patriots great management has shown otherwise. The Patriots are a model organazation for any sport. Also the best thing as well, they have the Niners 1st rd. draft pick, this just in it will be a top 5 pick. Talking about the rich getting richer.

The Patriots always seem to be a step ahead on and off the field.

I see where Youk shaved off his beard for charity. I think Manny ought to shave his head- not only for charity- but for the Red Sox as well.

I would agree with you pangelotti about Ramirez. How many times was he worried about his helmet when running the bases? Manny being Manny I guess.

The Celtics are 6-0, Boston sports fans are getting spoiled. If only the Bruins could do anything, dream on. The Revolution are going to the title game, who cares!!!

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