Giving Thanks

It’s the annual time of year to give thanks. Let’s do it from a Red Sox standpoint.

Josh Beckett: Thanks to this ace, a 3-1 deficit seemed like nothing in the ALCS. The Red Sox don’t come close to winning the World Series without Josh Beckett — period.

Jonathan Papelbon: He is so automatic, you almost take him for granted. As long as Papelbon is closing games for the Red Sox, everyone is going to assume the game is over when he comes sprinting out of the bullpen.

David Ortiz: He played hard and he played hurt all year, showing again why he might be the most beloved slugger in team history. Also, when the Sox were down 3-1 in Cleveland, it was Ortiz who took charge during a team meeting and demanded the players to realize what it meant to have "Red Sox" on the jersey. And he demanded that players stop looking around and waiting for someone else to step up. After that, the Red Sox didn’t lose another game.

Manny Ramirez: To a pure baseball fan, is there anything more enjoyable then watching this man hit when he’s locked in?

Dustin Pedroia: In my mind, this little sparkplug was the face of the 2007 Red Sox just like Johnny Damon and the free-flowing hair and beard served as the face of the ’04 Sox. When i think back to this playoff run, I’ll think of Pedroia’s spunk and guts on both sides of the ball.

Curt Schilling: The guy has big game guts, period. His postseason track record is the stuff of legend.

Mike Lowell: The World Series MVP was determined to get a four-year deal but when he couldn’t get it from the Red Sox, he decided to stay anyway. You have to love it when a player follows his heart, and not the dollar signs. As Lowell said, "I was financially secure before I signed this contract.". It’s a refreshing take that would be nice to see more often.

Jason Varitek: The definition of captain. The definition of a leader. The definition of a player who will do anything to win a baseball game.

Clay Buchholz: This man — who still looks like a boy — provided the most surprisingly magical night of the entire season.

Terry Francona: The biggest common denominator between the comeback from 0-3 in ’04 and the comeback from 1-3 this year? The manager never soured on his team, not even at the lowest possible point.

Theo Epstein: He laid out a mission statement when he was hired in Nov. 2002, saying that he wanted to build a scouting and player development machine and a team that could compete for a championship every year. That mission has been lived out and the Red Sox are on the verge of perhaps becoming the model franchise in baseball.

Happy Thanksgiving to all readers and all their family members. Also, Happy Thanksgiving to everyone who is part of my wonderful family, and to all of my good friends as well.

All the best,



What about Ellsbury???

Let’s have a Merry Christmas as well by following dgneubert’s suggestion of 20 Nov; 4;17pm and see if we can trade Coco and Lugo to Baltimore for Tejada. We can throw in Lopez if that’s not enough. Let’s also sign Timlin for another year. That would make it a Happy New Year too.

Let’s see, this is the season when we give thanks, though we should do it all through out the year. I know that I take things for granted at times. This is my list of all things that I’m thankful for:

Living free with choices.

Our Armed Forces who fight and stand watch to keep us that way.

The roof over my head and the clothes on my back.

Most importantly,MY HUSBAND, my family and friends.

(on a lighter note)

The fact that the ALCS is best of 7, not best of 5.

Mature looking men with greying hair who play 3rd base.

Good contracts and pens and ink with which to sign them.

Owners and players talking.

Closers who can dance, I’m glad he closes better than he dances.

Catchers who can direct a pitching staff.

Dreadlocks. Wait, not that.

DH’s with HUGE smiles.

Aces, cool under the most pressured situations.

Daily friendly banter among people in the BEST FANBASE EVER.

One NATION, Many NATIONERS, my other family.

God Bless all of you and your loved ones.

Thank you all for another wonderful year.


Posted by: | November 21, 2007 01:40 PM

I posted that on the previous blog about the same time Ian was posting the new one I guess.

From a Boston fan’s point of view, the #1 thing to be thankful for is the re-signing of Mike Lowell. Not just because he is an immense talent and fan favorite, but for the following reason:

“Although there were lots of reports that the Phillies made a four-year offer to Mike Lowell over the weekend, that isn’t quite true. They were prepared to make that offer if Lowell had told them he wanted to be a Phillie. But instead, Lowell was so intent on going back to Boston, he called the Phillies and told them it wouldn’t be right to even ask for an offer. Just one more example of how one of the classiest humans in baseball operates 24/7.”

(from Jayson Stark’s Blog).

Happy Thanksgiving to all Nationers at the other side of the ‘Pond’.

Lets not forget Jon Lester, his medical struggles, his late season contributions and the fact that he has something bigger than baseball…a true fighter with a long and healthy life. Thanks Jon…you’re a role model in every sense of the word.

Probably being a bit picky here, but that story about Big Papi isn’t quite accurate. Well the timeline isn’t anyway. He held that team meeting behind closed doors when they were 2-1 down against the Indians, not 3-1. So they did actually go out and lose the next game, which is a shame because it would be a great story otherwise.

When they were 3-1 down, Manny came out with the quote about it not being the end of the world if the Sox went out. After that they didn’t lose a game.

As for giving thanks, what about JD Drew and his ALCS game 6 grand slam. I’ll defiantly give thanks to that.

I know its a business, and the team needs to do what it can to strengthen itself at all times. However, it does sadden me to see the speculation about the Sox packaging CoCo and Jon Lester to the Twins for Johan Santana. Now don’t get me wrong — Santana over the past few years has demonstrated himself to be one of the truly great ones at the major league level, keeping him away from the Yankees and putting him in that rotation would just be overwhelming. I also recognize that, having comeback the way he has, and having won WS Game 4, Jon L’s market value has to be substantial, especially to a team like the Twins that has made a business of getting the best of young performers, and then letting them go once they become expensive.

However, Jon L. is a truly unique individual who is a well-fit cog in the Red Sox wheel. I like seeing him in a Sox uniform, and believe he will do that uniform proud should he continue to wear it in the future. I love and admire his spirit and determination.

I wanted to take the opportunity to echo bosox929’s appreciation for Jon L. on this Thanksgiving Day. Jon, on this Thanksgiving Day, you certainly have a lot to be thankful for. As far as you are concerned, so do we of RedSox Nation.

I wouldn’t worry too much if I were you Benjamin. There is absolutely no way the Twins would accept only Lester & Crisp for Santana. Throw in either Buchholz or Ellsbury as well and then they’d consider it. I can’t see Theo & the FO doing that, so you won’t have to worry about saying bye to Lester.

Haha if the Twins actually were willing to let go of Santana for only Crisp/Lester then Theo would have to pull the trigger on that one.

With that being said, I know the Twins GM has helped out the Sox in the past (releasing David Ortiz, anyone?) but he’s not making a deal for Santana without involving the players Simon mentioned above.

Torii Hunter has been signed by the Angels, I’m not that impressed though. I think he had a career year last year and will not benefit from the Angels big park. And while he will add some pop to the lineup, the Halos did just lose OC who is probably more valuable overall (in my opinion). I know Hunter is a 7-time Gold Glove winner but if you’re talking about a complete player, I’d have to give the nod to Cabrera.

Something else I don’t understand about this move is that they already had a Gold Glove-caliber CF with some pop in Matthews, Jr. Now they have 8 years/$140 million invested in two CF’s who are very similar. Go figure.

So you folks don’t think the Tiwns would bite on an offer including Lester, Crisp, Brandon Moss and Justin Masterson, for instance?

Hope everyone has had an enjoyable Thanksgiving holiday.

Ian, I would put Matsuzaka on that list you created of “players to be thankful for”. Without his 15 wins the Red Sox wouldn’t have won the AL East, or the crucial GM 7 of the ALCS. Despite his inconsistent style, he was instrumental to the team overall sucess also.

Santana has 1-3 record at Fenway, in 15.2 IP, he has given up 21 hits in those innings and has 6.89 ERA, Fenway has been known traditionaly known as a horror-house for lefties, except Kazmir. Therefore, I say “ney” to aquiring Johan Santana. Plus, the prospects that would have to be dealt, together, are more valuable than a single pitcher.

I think that the Twins would bite for a package of Crisp, Lester, Masterson and Moss, if a higher ability OF is avaiable, that would sweeten the deal, but most of our other outfield prospects are young and not ready to roam a ML field.

Again, I’m against this trade.

If the Twins really did bite on that deal I’d say yes in a heartbeat. But again I really can’t see them accepting that. I’m sure they’d get a much better offer from another team, especially one of the LA teams. Basically the one that doesn’t end up with Cabrera.

Everyone should put themselves in the Twins shoes. Would you be happy to part with the best pitcher in baseball for Crisp, Lester, Masterson and Moss? I know I wouldn’t.

Wasn’t it Santana who said he would like to leave the confines of Minnesota if Torii Hunter eventually landed on another teams payroll, not the Twins organization. I guess Minnesita maganment will have to “go with the flow” in terms of Sanatana’s desicions.

The saying “keep things wawy from the Yankees”, I feel applies to this situation in a half-hearted manner. The Twins were asking for Kennedy, Melky, and (Hughes?). That deal (with or without Hughes + another prospect) is morgaging the Yankees future to an extreme.

As Simon said “put yourself in the Twins shoes”, I doubt that if the Twins don’t look seriously at the aforementioned Red Sox package, then anything lower than the above, Yankees package, wouldn’t work out either. Unless George takes over, Hal and Hank will keep the club in a steady postion.

Anyway in which Santana reaches a club you morgage the future, whether it be by tradind 1st tier prospects, or next offseason signing him to a lengthy and money saturated contract.


personally i don’t think there’s any way theo would trade ells or buch for santana. i may be wrong. i could see a package of maybe coco, lester, hansen, and one of the other good minor leaguers pitchers or middle infielders. if they took that cool. ONLY IF h eagreed to an ext beforehand, if not no way. i’d be wary of dealing for him period personally. although he’s only 28-29 he’s thrown a TON of innings over the past few years.

i don’t think hunter is really an “impact” type player for the angels. will he help some? sure but nothing like a cabrerra would. i just pray he ( cabrerra ) winds up on the other side of town. put HIM in that angels lineup and they would have to considered the favorites going into next year IMO.

The Twins offered Santana, 5 yrs, 93 million, but Santana agent reported countered by asking for 126 million over the 5 yrs. Santana would only be in Boston for 1 year, and if he has a “good year”, that price of 126 will only increase. . . . . 25 mil. per year is to much to be asking for.

That would be another ton ‘o money for a pitcher. I know he’s “young” but still… Our starting rotation seems real solid at this point. Who would we have to give up along with the cash?? I don’t see the twins not getting anyone in return. I don’t think that we should give up Lester or Bucholtz and definitely NOT Ellsbury.


I here alot of cheering coming from the Columbus area, I wonder why? LOL…

The Buckeyes are still alive and well for the B.C.S. Championship game in New Orleans. Never thought I would say that after Illinois ran all over them for 260 yards, what a strange season.

The old saying “quality over quanity” directly relates to the Red Sox except on the other end of the spectrum. The Red Sox have 6 to 7 starters (if Tavarez is inculded):






Wakefield + Tavarez

As of now, Beckett is the only pitcher who shows very little mystery about the coming season, and his perfomance level. Dice-K, known by all, needs to control his emotions and his pitches, Schillings age is beginning to show, Lester is very young and is still (almost fully healthy)recovering slighty, it will be Buchholz first full ML season, and Wake the knuckballer, well . . . is a knuckballer. So, it is perfectly understandable why Theo and Co. are pursuing a elite and expensive starter . . , to add stabilaty behind JB.

The more and more I study and review the pros and cons of this deal, I find myself leaning toward saying “go for it”.

Im Thankful for each and everyone of YOU.And I am thankful to God for making me a Red Sock.


Could it be that the LSU coach got caught daydreaming today, fantasizing about coaching Michigan in that second rate conference? Let’s see, OSU is effectively No. 4 today, then No. 3 after tomorrow’s KU/Mizzou game…then who knows about W. Va. or the survivor of KU/Mizzou in the Big 12 Championship. All I know is that the Bucks will not lose any more games before the bowl games get sorted out. Maybe after they beat Michigan, the Buckeye players were a bit premature to be flashing roses….what do you think?!?!?!?

Back to giving thanks:
Agree with all those mentioned above, but let’s not forget:

Tim Wakefield, who among his other accomplishments, swallowed his pride and ceded participation in the World Series for the good of the team.

JD Drew, who never made excuses but who, coincidentally when his boy was out of his body cast, started producing and delivered when it mattered most.

And please don’t forget our gold-glove 1st baseman Youk who did everything asked of him and more with intensity and passion, even when that meant stifling his passion and sitting down when he was at his hottest, and who throughout the season played like there was no tomorrow to help ensure that there would be.


I think the winner of the KU/Mizzou game will be #1. I am hoping Kansas wins, who in the world would ever think the Jayhawks would ever be #1 in there lifetime in football? A great story are the Jayhawks!!!

West Va. should win there last 2 games, UConn and then they play pathetic Pitt. Is there a worse coach than Dave Wannstedt? LOL….

I would put Ohio State ahead of West Va. but I don’t think that will happen. Having 1 loss in the Big (L)East is not impressive to me.

Ohio State not playing can only only themselves.

Les Miles and his defensive coaches ( Bo Pellini just to mention one ) should be embarrased of themselves. Arkansas had a field day with that L.S.U. Defense.


I read a “speculative” article in the Boston Herald this morning that said that the Twins would probably want Pedroia and/or Ellsbury in the mix. Not only no, but **** NO! That would be a public relations and on field disaster.

The Red Sox would be very foolish if they didn’t look into getting Santana. Just to see what it would take, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. If you think the price is too steep, you don’t pull the trigger. Perhaps they get involved and drive the price even more and the Yankees would have to give up more to get Santana.

There are going to be alot of Santana rumors in the next month or so. Things are really going to heat up during the winter meetings. I am looking forward to it.

Imagine a starting rotation with Beckett, Santana and Dice-K among the top 3, are you kidding me? Schilling as the #4 starter, WOW!!! If the price is right, the Red Sox should acquirre Santana. They made the right move when they got Pedro and getting Santana would be the equal.

Very important for g.m.’s, don’t fall in love with your players.

Long time, no talk, school gets very busy.

Anyway, happy thanksgiving (although belated) to all of you.

My two cents:

for the Sox to get Santana:

Lester, Crisp and Bucholtz. maybe a lesser prospect thrown in as well.

For the Yankees to get Santana:

Cano, Hughes, Kennedy and a lesser prospect.

For me, neither one is worth it. I love Santana but it just doesn’t make sense for either side to make one big splash as opposed to holding their weapons. These guys are the core for the future on both sides.

If anything, the Sox are, as Bosox said, trying to force the Yankees into a move. I would generally say it would work, except the one thing Cashman has been great with is keeping the future in tact.

One question though:

Why does signing Hunter make no sense for the Angels, but signing Lowell for three years makes perfect sense for the Red Sox?

I know all the intangibles and whatnot, but they won before Lowell and they can win after so it’s not saying all that much.

Do you all really think Lowell has more years like 2007 left in him? If so, I would think Hunter has more of a chance to maintain consistancy than Lowell does.

Just saying.

And yes, I recognize this is the pot calling the kettle black in terms of Posada and Rivera, but those were moves necessary for right now and both can be moved into lesser roles (7th inning or setup man and first base/DH) if their play does start to decline.


Torii Hunter was an unnecessary addition to a Sox fan, but to an the Angels fan in was a necessary plus to an Angels outfield that already includes the likes of Vlad, Anderson, and Matthews Jr. Their reasoning was that with Anderson advancing age, Vlad’s injuries hurting his performance in the field, and the rumors of Matthews HGH usage.

If the Sox were not able to sign Lowell, the other options would have been more costly in the long term, ie. Miguel Cabera.

I know that a career year can sometimes predict a decline, but if his numbers are that of 2006, he (Lowell) is always welcome.

Untouchable prospects: Ellsbury, Buchholz, Pedroia, and Lowrie.

Any additions to the above list?

You’re also forgetting Reggie Willits in the OF, rsjones, a strong contender for Rookie of the Year before his numbers fell off towards the end of the season.

The reason it makes no sense is not that they’re not going to get great defense and decent hitting out of Hunter, because in all likelihood they are. It doesn’t make sense because they already have 4 completely competent, everyday outfielders and now they have 5 for the price of $90 million.

Also, if the Sox didn’t re-sign Lowell, in all likelihood they would have had to acquire a 3B/1B in a trade or pay $200 million. The former would result in both weakening their farm system and jumbling up their IF by moving the 2007 Gold Glove winner at 1B across the diamond. The latter would involve me becoming sick everytime A-Rod gave an awkward curtain call at Fenway.


This is the same Brian Cashman that said if A-Rod opts out we will not go after him. Hank and Hal said otherwise. Cashman’s job is on the line, he needs to get some pitching, like NOW!!!

If the Yankees think they can go win it all with the way the team is assembled, they are dreaming.

You put Santana in the rotation and suddenly they are right there with the Red Sox. I think the Yankees should try to put Wang in the deal and keep some of the other young arms they have. The Twins are in a great spot, 2 of the big boys ( Red Sox & Yankees ) are in the Santana sweepstakes and 1 of the teams are desperate. Do I have to mention which one is the desperate team? I think we can all figure that one out. LOL…..

The Twins with the right deal can really make there team better. They can get 3 if not 4 players for Santana. They would be nuts if they didn’t pull the trigger!!! That being said, don’t make a deal just for the sake of making one.


Actually they are stuck with 6 talented outfielders:




Matthews Jr.


and Juan Rivera

Combined salaries for next year: 46,257,500 dollars

I’m just thankful that I, nor anyone I know didn’t drop dead at age 28. Say your prayers, Nation, for the family of Joe Kennedy. And say another for Scott Coolbaugh’s family. Happy Holidays.

Oh see, I figured this move was a direct precursor to getting Cabrera. I would imagine Willits is used there.

How does replacing Wang with Santana make the Yankees WS caliber but not without him? Wang won 38 regular season games the last two years, more than Santana. Taking his victories out of the rotation makes no sense, it’s not like Johan wins 30 games. He might win 20-24, a difference of at best five games.

I think the Yankees are better just because instead of Igawa and Pavano in the opening day rotation, Hughes and Chamberlain are there. If Pettitte comes back there is no reason to believe he can’t duplicate last year. New York will not have 10+ rookies make debuts and chances are that stability improves their bullpen, which won’t be worn down by June. I don’t think they win the WS even if Pettitte comes back as is, but I don’t think Santana is that big of a difference maker in the regular season, postseason is a different story.

The Yankees need two relievers and a top of the rotation starter (if for nothing else than because we don’t know how Joba and Hughes translate in their first full seasons) to be favorites to me.

If the Angels got Cabrera, that would be one scary team.

Hunter to me is not a difference maker. A great glove but not the best bat, 90 million for 5 years for a guy that plays that hard. He has gotten this far in his career because of his legs. As you get older those legs tend to get a little heavy.

Santana would be a huge upgrade over Wang. Imagine a quality lefty pitching at Yankee Stadium? Santana with the Yankees would win 23 games. Wang is good but if you put him in the package and can get Santana. If your the Yankees, you make that trade.

Right now the Yankees bullpen is a mess. They would be smart if they put Chamberlain in the pen and be the bridge to Rivera. As of right now they have nothing before Rivera.

IMO the yankees need depth in their rotation as much as quality so i don’t see where essentially swapping a starter for another starter makes sense. plus the other guys they would have to inc ( cano or cabrerra plus some ) would weaken them offensively. the red sox have the luxury of having some quality depth in terms of pitching, as well as an extra CF right now, so inc a young guy like lester for santana would make sense. i suppose any deal that DIDN’T inc ells, buch, or pedroia would be a good one. as long as he agrees to a contract ext. i know beckett would like it because if you pay santana 18-20MM what are you gonna pay him in a couple of years?

That’s my point SM.

I think people’s judgement of Wang are clouded by his postseason-the guy is a back to back 19 game winner. He has a 3 era at home. Like I said, even if Santana DID win 23 games, it’s a difference of four games and we lose cano and probably another high prospect, it doesn’t make sense to me.

Moving Chamberlain to the bullpen could only be possible if Pettitte returns and even then I’ll take a guy with undeniable ace stuff over a shutdown setup man any day. You can create dominant relief pitchers, you can’t just conjure up an ace. Now if Joba comes out and struggles somehow as a starter, than it might make sense, but I doubt that happens.

An ESPN rumor has it that the Sox might be willing to include Ellsbury in a trade. &*&^*&^! As if the prospect of trading Lester, Buchholz and Crisp for Santana wasn’t bad enough. Ellsbury appears to be in the future superstar category. Including him a trade would be a very crazy and stupid thing to do.

Then of course, the Sox would have to dole out another $150 million or so for a long term contract.

Sure, Santana is very good and would in all liklihood help the Sox a great deal. But trading the farm and breaking the bank for one guy seems crazy.

Sox upper management has already failed miserably with the farm give away with the Gagne for Gabbard trade. One would hope they learned a lesson from it. Once their gone, their gone for good.

I’d feel better if the sox go with the young guys they have.

Having introduced the conversation about trading for Santana, to me there is one real good reason to trade for him, and one real good reason not to: the real good reason to trade for him is to keep him away from the Yanks. I agree with bosoxbrian — put Santana in that line-up, and they become a legitimate WS challenger. Recognizing what Wang has done over the past 2 years, I still see a significant difference between Wang and Santana.

The one reason not to make the trade is the ego and income problems likely to develop between Beckett and Santana. Can anyone afford to No. 1 starters (and I don’t just mean financially). How long did Schill and Randy J last in Arizona — how long did Pedro and Schill last in Boston? I don’t believe those statements are indictments of Schill.

As for Ellsbury being untouchable — Let’s remember that we have seen him perform for 8 weeks. He has looked marvelous in that time, but it has been only 8 weeks. Given his brief time in the majors, his trade value has to be at a premium based on that exposure. For all of my talk proposing CoCo into various trades, he is a whale of a defensive player — my main memory is of him jumping into the Fenway bullpen trying to take an A-Rod home run away. He did hit far better in Cleveland, and perhaps his return to that form comes next Spring. The Twins are known as a team that conserves its economics, and Ells would be far less expensive than Crisp for a long time to come.

Maybe, instead of going after Santana, the Sox should be looking at Joe Mauer as Tek’s future replacement?

Regarding how long we’ve seen Ellsbury perform perhaps you should read the article about him in the Globe. It is about how he has performed at an an exceptional level no matter what league/sport he was in since he was a child. He has one of those great spirits and work ethics, or so it seems. I vote NO on trading him.

Oh… and as I recall most of us here this season complained constantly about Coco at the plate and SCREAMED for “ELLS” to be brought up. I think this is the wrong bait to be putting on the fishing rod. NO NO a thousand times NO!

i would have to think ells would be untouchable from theo’s standpoint. i mean he wouldn’t inc him for texiera so i would think he would have the same position on johan. buch or lester i could understand the logic of including them in a potential deal because as i said they have depth so it’s a one for one deal basically in terms of pitching. and regardless of their potential santana is an upgrade over anybody. if coco and buch or lester ( not both ) plus a couple of “prospects” get it done it would make sense IMO.

According to Ben Maller’s MLB Rumors on the Red Sox and Yankees are interested in the A’s ace Dan Haren. The Yankees are supposedly willing to offer Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy, and the Sox could offer Bowden or Lester.

i saw that. wouldn’t surprise if they’re trying to possibly do a 3 team deal. with maybe haren and coco winding up in minn, lester and a prospect or 2 in oak. and santana in boston.

One for one deal to acquire D. Haren is more palatable. Before jumping on Santana’s bandwagon, I’d like to see Santana’s records against the pennant contenders like LAA, NYY, Boston, and Cleveland. Santana is one of the best left handed pitchers. But I don’t him especially pitching in Fenway.

Dan Haren Career stats vs. Boston and at Fenway Park

vs. Boston:


30.1 IP

3.26 ERA

28 H

26 K

8 BB

5 GS

At Fenway:


15.2 IP

4.60 ERA

20 H

13 K

6 BB

3 GS

Umm . . . . . . .

Thankful for happy days and a wonderful season — for a team we can be proud of. For guys who look like they’re having fun and not slogging at a job (hey, that’s my job!). For players who feel like friends, for stories that make you cry and smile and clap and cheer and laugh.

And, too, for the wonderful doctors and nurses who took such good care of Jon Lester.

Thank you.

Santana vs. Pennat contending clubs:


8 GS / 5 GS

2-3 / 3-0

60 IP / 40.2 IP

4.05 ERA / 2.66 ERA

51 H / 37 H

21 BB / 14 BB

44 K / 35 K


20 GS / 9 GS

7-7 / 4-4

155.1 IP / 55.2 IP

3.42 ERA / 3.24 ERA

127 H / 53 H

44 BB / 16 BB

166 K / 58 K

Sorry about the way it got displayed, the slashes show the sepreration of stats.

ie. 8 GS/5 GS or 2-3/3-0

rsjones, thanks for the Santana’s stats. At least he pitched well against the Yanks. My other concern is how well Santana will pitch in the playoffs. Will Santana be like Beck/Schil or like Sabathia/Carmona?

007, no offense intended, but aren’t we getting ahead of ourselves?? I would hate to see RedSox Fans become like the Yankee fans that we detest. The ones (Vince not included) who think that they are ENTITLED every year to post season play. That would just take the fun out of everything having to do with post season and the World Series. As I said no offense intended.

i don’t think you can ever know for sure how someone will react in the playoffs. keep in mind these guys have been on some very average teams at best so their records are not what they COULD be in a different setting. both have excellent career ERA’s so i think if placed on a a “championship” caliber team either one would be fine at any point during the year. i think boston might see this as an opp to get santana without giving up a ton of prospects. haren is a proven guy so throw him in with coco ( as opposed to lester ) and it MIGHT be a lil easier to get something done with minne. just a guess but it makes sense to me. you always wanna have at least one LH starter and i would think lester would be more likely than buch to be involved in a deal for haren. then again haren isn’t that much older ( 3-4 yrs ) than buch so you never know. they may view haren and lester as a better combo than buch and lester for the next few years.

Thanks chow, here are Santana cumulative postseason pitching stats:

11 G

5 GS

34 IP

35 H

3.97 ERA

10 BB

32 K

He pitched in the ALDS in 02, 03, 04, and 06 and reached the ALCS in 2002 also. As shown he has pitched out of the bullpen more often than he has started early in his career rising his ERA and other stats.

1.34 WHIP

.326 OBA


Billy Beane wouldn’t take Crisp in a trade for Haren. Since he is stuck in the “Moneyball” OBP etc. state of mind, he has no desiere for a speedy, yet defensively excellent, but also below-par at the plate centerfielder. However he did sign Shannon Stewart as a backup OF last offseason, so he could look at Crisp to fill in the same role.

To acquire Santana, the Sox has to give up young talents and renegotiate a new deal at $25M per for 6 years. I will pass.

007chow, I’ve come to the same opinion.

rsjones. i wasn’t suggesting crisp to oak. i said lester and a prospect or two to oak. crisp, haren, and prob a prospect to minne for johan. i’m not really all that in favor of santana either although he is THE dominant LH in the game IMO. it would prob be closer to 20mm per yr than 25mm for the ext. still a lot of $$$ though. i just always think about what the braves got stuck with in hampton when you start talking about trading for pitchers. that said though if haren or santana can be obtained for coco, buch or lester ( not both ), and a prospect or 2 regardless of how it’s structured i think you prob have to roll the dice if your theo. their both still relatively young and proven big timers. either would/could make this staff on paper maybe one of the best ( top to btm )ever if they stay healthy for the next 3-5 yrs IMO. you don’t know what you get from buch/lester in a full season. but you have a pretty good idea what you’ll get from the other 2.

A LH starter is a piece of the puzzle that the Sox have been pursueing since the trade deadline last season, ie. Mark Buerhle. Lester already fills that need, but compared to Santana who as stated is the best LH’d pitcher in MLB, there isn’t any competition. If Santana we would have a 1-2 punch of the best lefty, and arguably the best righty in Beckett.

It seems that the Yanks are already discussing a trade for Santana. They are not waiting for the GM meeting next week. I assume that Theo is aware that such a discussion is being held and is that he is not that anxious; waiting for the GM meeting; or has already dealt or plans to deal, directly with Minnesota. Let’s hope that whatever happens that Theo wasn’t caught napping.

i would be really surprised with what it would cost them if the yankees trade for santana. i mean IF pettite comes back they could have a pretty good top 3 but sanatana would cost them young pitching and cano or cabrerra so i don’t see how they’re really much if any better.

I’m pretty sure the Yanks are going to get Santana. There is no way they are going into the season with pitching as lousy as it was last year. The young guys aren’t enough to compensate for all of their other problems. I bet Wang experiences a drop off as well… unless the time he has spent in a padded cell after his playoff performance has cured him.

Let the desperate Yanks have Santana. Don’t get me wrong. Every team would like to have Santana in its rotation. The price is just too deep to have Santana. Whatever happens, don’t trade away Buchholz, DP and Ellsbury. The Sox rotation for ’08 is more than sufficient to face any team in the MLB.

I agree, let Santana go to New York at the expense of the Yankee’s future. It would great if he couldn’t handle pitching in a big market, Minnesota isn’t exactly Boston or New York when it comes to baseball.

I personally am content with our starting rotation now, and as has been mentioned, two aces in one city generally doesn’t last very long. As far as I’m concerned, Beckett is the best pitcher in the universe right now at 27 years old, so why try and land a 30-year old while risking losing A LOT of good talent.

zachary, good point. The Sox’s starting pitching is all set for ’08. Just has to fill Schil’s spot in ’09. Even if Minne would trade Santana for Lester and Crisp, I would not be so quick to jump on the deal. That’s how I feel about Santana. I’ll give Buchholtz and Lester a fill season to see what they can do.

like i said i’m not jumping up and down for the santana deal to happen BUT if you can a 28 yr old pitcher with 2 CY’s already for essentially lester or buch ( not both ) as well as coco and maybe a prospect you have to do it IMO. i mean he’s a LH beckett. plus the CY’s. on paper buch and lester figure to be very good. i’m sure they will be if they stay healthy. i doubt either of them is ever santana good though. plus they could also turn into the next wood or prior. there are no sure things. especially with pitchers but santana is pretty close right now. plus if you give them that full season ( ’08 ) you for sure lose out on a no doubt HOF pitcher if he stays healthy.

What about some sort of trade for Santana by possibly giving up Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, a Craig Hansen, or some type of minor league player like him, and possibly a draft pick??

smckinny, hard to disagree with what you said. I just believe that the price is way too high (Buchholz or Lester and Crisp + $25m/yr)to get a guy who historically doesn’t pitch that well in Fenway.

007. the guy has a career era, in the AL, of 3.2 i think he’d figure it out. as far as the money you have to pay what market dictates. the red sox didn’t win 2 WS’s in 4 yrs by being cheap and it’s not like they couldn’t afford it. crisp is gone anyway. there’s 4mm. plus clement 8mm. plus the fact schill is gone after next yr, most likely, there’s your 25mm pretty much just from guys who wouldn’t be there anyway. if i’m theo i’m tryin to get haren for lester and maybe a prospect or 2 and then offering him and coco to minn. that has to more attractive than melky and any of the yankee rookies. if you have to throw in hansen or some other prosepct. it’s worth it just to pi$$ the yankees off IMO. plus the guy is a HOF pitcher if he stays healthy.

Lester, Crisp, Daniel Bard, and Craig Hansen anybody??? Or is that still to little? The best option for Santana right now is just probably staying with the twins, and either wait for an extension or get a lot of money from free agency. Plus, aren’t the twins getting back their stud youngster Francisco Liriano? Liriano and Santana r probably going to be the most dangerous 1-2 punch in the game next year…..if they both stay healthy. Maybe we reeli shuld get Santana lol!

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