Theo's a dad

Congratulations to Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein. His wife Marie Whitney gave birth to the couple’s first child this morning. Son Jack was born shortly before 11 this morning, weighing in at seven pounds, 14 ounces. He is 20.5 inches long.

Fittingly, the child was born on a baseball deadline day. All general managers must tender contracts to unsigned players by midnight tonight. I’m thinking that Theo was probably able to delegate this to Jed Hoyer or one of his other trusted assistants so he could be with wife and baby!

In other news, Red Sox spanish broadcaster Uri Berenguer — who also has a radio show on XM — is feverishly trying to raise funds on behalf of the Jimmy Fund for the 2008 Boston Marathon. Uri has a deadline of 5 p.m. Friday and is currently a good bit short of his goal. Uri is a cancer survivor himself. It’s a great cause. Anyone who wants to help Uri, please do so at this URL.

Thanks,

Ian.

132 Comments

Sincere congratulations to Theo and Marie Whitney!! Here’s hoping for a very healthy and happy life for Jack. I hope that he has Theos Redsox brain and Whitneys beauty!!! Nice early Christmas present!!! Congrats!!!

Ditto on Congrats, health, happiness etc. Just goes to show you that Theo also planned to have Jack in time for a 2007 tax deduction.

Congratulations to the happy parents and I hope they can get some sleep. :)

Reported list leaked to Boston Globe

Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Bary Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozze Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenny Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Schoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez,Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood.

HAHAHAHA HOWS YOUR CAPTAIN????

Assuming ayton’s list is accurate, I would only say that this makes the achievements of guys like Pedro Martinez, David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, Frank Thomas, Curt Schilling, Randy Johnson, Vlad Guerrero, Ken Griffey Jr., A-Rod and others even more remarkable.

To be honest, I could care less about this whole issue. We’re talking baseball here folks. In the scheme of things going on in the world today, how important is it. I love baseball, but it exists for our entertainment, and nothing else. The millions of dollars spent on this **** could have been better used doing something constructive.

What they really ought to do with this report is use it to educate players on the devastating impact use of this **** can have on your body. Take a look at the list and think about how many of the well known players there have had serious or career ending injuries. Bodies simply break when they try to do more than they were designed to do.

On a more positive subject, I found out today that I’m going to have the chance to play golf next week with former Celtics great Sam Jones. When I got that call today I got all nostalgic and all of I’ve been thinking about is Johnny Most calling the game. “Russell gets it to KC who brings the ball up to half court….. KC fiddles and he faddles, diddles and he daddles and it goes over on the left to Sam Jones, he stops, he pops……BANG!” Was Johnny Most the best, or what?

If Aaron Boone was taking something, NY in the 2003 World Series should have an * beside its name.

gsm – I have to say I disagree with you. This issue had to be publicized to let people know how widespread the problem is. You don’t want the next generation feeling the need to do this stuff. Also, I would say that this list is by no means conclusive, so the people you mentioned might still have done somthing.

The ones I am very surprised by: Pettitte, Varitek, Boone, and to a certain extent Gagne and Damon. I also think the Pujols one is pretty huge. If in fact the list is accurate of course.

Could it be reason or one of the reasons why the Sox let Garaciaparra, Nixon, or Damon go?

That list is very wrong.

I haven’t seen tex’s name on the report at all or pujols so were are you getting this from?

I just scand the whole report no Tex thank god

Yeah so cheers Ayton our captain is just fine.

No Pujols, Damon, Garciaparra or Nixon either.

According to the Mitchell Report (which I would think has the final say on what’s what), Varitek’s name does not appear. My buddies were trying to give me a hard time about his name being mentioned.

According to the Report, Gagne wasn’t on anything this year and Theo had suspicions that he would be less-than-stellar without any “help”. There’s an exchange of emails between Theo and a scout discussing this which is pretty telling.

Not surprised to see the old, fat man Clemens on the report. Provides some redemption for the Redsox decision to let the out of shape, lazy, slob go after a few lousy years in Boston. Wasn’t until he was around a few first ballot hall of famers (Jeter, Rivera) and some steriods to actually do something in the playoffs. Impressive.

LoL clemens what a fat slob we deserves the bonds treatment for sure he was washed up the roids got him back in it got to love the sox front office even back then

The Yankees fans are crying foul that no present Red Sox players are implicated in the Report because Mitchell is a paid director of Rex Sox organization. It explains why Pettitte rushed to signing the deal one day before the release of the Report. Didn’t he say that he is in no rush to decide whether to play or retire?

Time to come up with the best nickname/motto for the Yanks run in the 90′s:

- Best roids money can buy

- Buy one overpriced veteran, get a free supply of roids

- The house that roids built

gsm, you make an excellent point. In the grand scheme of things baseball is pretty insignificant.
BUT, we could easily turn that argument around on ourselves. We, as fans here, spend an awful lot of time watching baseball. And that time could be put to good use elsewhere; doing charity work, donating our time to poor kids, etc. Now, I know some of you already do that, I’m guessing, but so does baseball. There are lots of charities associated with baseball and its players. So now I can come full circle with the argument and say that it’s imperative that baseball police itself so that those good works are not jeopardized or tainted. My take on it , anyway.

So now what happens to the achievements of guys like Clemens and Bonds, Mcgwire, Sosa? Is Clemens still a candidate for “greatest pitcher of all time”. The Bonds HR record, what happens with that??? What are all your opinions here?

“House that roids built” gets my vote, rayman.

Remember, just because a player’s name was not on the Mitchell Report list does not mean he has not taken performance-enhancing drugs. McGwire wasn’t on the list. Do you think he is clean? A-Rod? It would be nieve to think there are not players on EVERY team that were not mentioned in this list. I do agree that Clemens should be held to the same scrutiny of Bonds. Both do not deserve Hall of Fame induction.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

Guess this officially ends Clemens in a Major League uniform.

Guess that helps explain why Clemen’s a-s-s has gotten so much fatter over the years. That’s what will happen if you use it as a pin cushion.

For those players who were not lised in the report do not mean that they have not taken PEDs as Jeff correctly stated. There is insufficient evidence to list them.
However, there is clear and convincing evidence (if not beyond reasonable doubt)for those who were mentioned in the report. The evidence must hold up in the court in case there is a lawsuit for libel.

tarnish the Yankees dynasty? Why? because Knoblauch had a million errors and was on it? Or Neagle who ******? This report is based on testimonials from two NY trainers, of course most of them will be yankees. None of the major pieces of those Yankees dynasties were on the list and yes, you can’t ignore Mitchell is paid by the Red Sox, that’s not an excuse, it’s a fact.

Very surprised brady anderson is not on this list. Not surprised at all by Vaughn.

Pettitte took it once in 2002-2003 to help his recovery, i’d harly place him in the same regard as Clemensa nd Bonds who are repeat users.

Nook Logan? Are you serious?

To be fair, and let me tell you, I’m not a Sox fan to be fair, I’m as prejudiced as they come; the whole sport is tarnished not just the Yankees. Having said that, I will gladly make fun of the Yankee players with extra enthusiasm.

But now we’ll start to hear the excuses. “I have a prescription.” “I didn’t know what those shots were.” “I was injured.” “Everyone else was doing it, how am I supposed to compete?” Blah, blah, blah…And if these excuses are repeated often enough, we’ll start to believe them.

Baseball has had stains on it before and will again. Let’s see how they all deal with this.

Ayton, let me give you a little legal advise from a guy practing law for over 12 years, what you have just posted is libelous per se, which means “[t]o render words, the words must be of a such a character that a presumption of law will arise therefrom that the plaintiff has been degraded in the estimation of his friends or the public or has suffered some other loss . . . [including] character . . . reputaion” A simpler defination is “any publication that is injurious to the reputation of another.” Don’t give me any First Amendment defense/argument because libel and slander are not protected speech. In fact the state of the law is that you don’t even have to prove damages. Granted they are public figures and New York Times (very famous case) standard applies, but still I don’t believe what you said about the players not included in the Mitchell report would have a hard time meeting the burden in court. If you notice that is why most newspapers and commenters do not speculate on specific names because they know that if they are wrong, and you were, then they can easily be found guilty of one of the oldest torts recognized in law. Watch what you say, this is a public forum, not private, and you’d hate to be made an example of. More importantly it is simply wrong to make such a comment in a public setting.

IMO this ultimately goes back to the canseco book. when it came out everybody said he’s just tryin to make a buck. BUT did anyone fight it legally etc.? no. if you’re innocent you do what ever it takes to clear your name. if that happens, as i would have then, i’ll give people the benefit of the doubt. if like with canseco’s situ no one does anything to disprove it then you have to assume that what it portrayed is at least mostly acurate. as for now i find it hard to believe that those people interviewed just threw out those names for the sake of doing it or to avoid something that was inevitable anyway. and except for clemens, because he’s such an arrogant *****, i hope i’m wrong.

Smckinny, there is no legal liability if it is the truth. An absolute defense to libel/slander is the truth. I agree, if you are guilty and named with no basis, you should should just be quiet. But our budy Ayton and perhaps the Boston Globe could have problems if in fact someone on that list is innnoncent. I know if I was Jason and never did the stuff and there is not proof I ever did I would sue their *****. I have already recieved 5 phone calls from my buddies who are not sox fans laughing because they thought Jason was in the report. By the way I just printed out the report. DON’T unless you have a lot of paper. It has been printing for over 25 minutes.

connorgrace: Roger Clemens’ attorney stated that “He (Roger)has not been charged with anything, he will not be charged with anything and yet he is being tried in the court of public opinion with no recourse. That is totally wrong.”
Mitchell and his commission may be protected from potential lawsuits. If Clemens or other implicated players are indeed innocent, they surely have a course of action for libel against the MLB and its commissioner. Do you agree.

Mitchell, being a prominent lawyer and jurist, will not implicate any player in the report unless he has substantial evidence (other than those published) which will hold in the court.

I heard a report on the local sports radio station an hour before the report was offically released and it had Tek and Nomah and Damon on it. I don’t see their names anywhere now, guess it wasn’t so accurate. I saw no one active except Gagne and Donnelly, and it was for their “pre-Sox” days.
I knew this would go deep, but WOW.

And I never heard or saw the the report of Nixon, who is this “ayton” anyhow?? Never seen this one before, I guess just another sour grapes person.

What do you call 100 lawyers at the bottom of a lake?

A good start.

I wonder if the NY Junkees had a sign like this in their locker room:

“Wear cleats in locker room at all time to reduce the chances of stepping on a hypodermic needle… Unless you are batting below .250, then please do so.”

We always knew Clemens had Pettitte’s back… just didn’t knew he was jamming a needle in it.

i’m not an attorney but i would imagine that mitchell & co are exempt from any type of legal proceedings if someone wanted to challenge the findings. i wouldn’t think that would hold true for those who testified and gave them the info however. i would think they would be open to libel suits. be interesting to see if anyone proceeds along those lines.

I always thought the Junkees dynasty would end when the umps had enough balls to not give them all of the cheap calls in the playoffs (Jeffrey Maier, Jeter’s play against Jeremy Giambi)… but I guess the end of the Steroid Era helped as well.

Speaking of that Jeter play at the plate against the A’s. It would have been more obvious that Jeremy Giambi was safe if Jeter wasn’t able to tag him on his back pocket filled with vials of Winstrol and Deca-Durabolin.

Alot of name calling here on the Yankees, folks please grow up.

Red Sox won it all back in 2004, do you really think that entire team was steroid free/HGH free? Dream on folks!!!!

smckinny: Mitchell and his commission are probably immuned from lawsuit. However, if I were the innocent, implicated player, I would bring a defamation lawsuit against all parties, MLB, Comissioner Selig, Mitchell, McNamee, et al. Let the court throw out the immuned parties from the lawsuit.
Truth is the defense to defamation. The party just has to prove the case by clear and convincing evidence that it is little more than “more likely than not”, but not as much as “beyond a reasonable doubt” as in a criminal case. It is not a high standard to defend a defamation suit.

Roger Clemens was afforded the opportunity to rebut McNamme’s testimony by Mitchell. He declined. Now his attorney is saying yada yada……

I would suggest that we let the results of this report play out.Let’s give the players named a chance to respond. Also. let’s face it- this is just the tip of the iceberg. These are the players that have been identified- how many are just as guilty but are getting away with it. The tough part is how does baseball handle it in the future. What role will the Players Union play in continuing to try and cover things up.They should realize that if they are truly interested in baseball that they should do everything possible to prevent this from happening in the future. Perhaps all contracts that are written should include an agreement that anyone proven guilty of taking prohibited drugs will forfeit their salary for the duration of the contract and will not be allowed to play for any other team for some period of time.There has to be some penalty that has teeth in it and the Union should support it.

Reports out of the twin cities is Santana wants 140 million for 7 years. His agent has told both the Red Sox and Yankees that.

$20M per and twice as much as Beck makes plus Lester and/or Ellsbury+. Agony!
Since Pettitte’s status is uncertain relative to the perceived penalty, I won’t be surprised that the Yanks are willing to throw in Hughes, Kennedy, and Cabrera.

You’re right about the name calling. The shoe could just as easily have been on our collective foot. We’ll never really know for sure until the day that they impose something idiotic like weekly mandatory testing. I know I wouldn’t like it if it were our guys. The Yankee fans didn’t do use the substances, the players did. WE should not take it out on the fans.

Brian, if what you say is correct, the Yankees, or anyone else can have him. I don’t care who it is, you don’t invest in a pitcher for that long. There are just too many things that can go wrong. The Sox would be foolish to even entertain that. Although he would certainly be an asset, the Sox are pitching rich right now and don’t need him that badly. I’d rather hang on to Ellsbury and/or Lester than be forced to make that kind of commitment. That’s worse than getting married!

As far as the steroids thing is concerned, I’m sick of it. What’s done is done and baseball has instituted a testing program that is trying its best to keep up with all the different **** players can get that is presently undetectable. I believe the answer is to make the penalty for getting caught so painful that nobody in their right mind will even consider doing it. If MLB and the Union isn’t willing to do that, then the issue isn’t that important to them and this is all just a bunch of ****.

For a player, the solution is simple. Don’t put anything in your body if you don’t know what it is unless you have a legitimate prescription from a doctor or it has been cleared by MLB. I’m already sick of hearing about it so let’s put it behind us and move on.

As far as Clemens is concerned, if he did do the steroids, I don’t see where he picked up any additional speed or power. However, I do see where he became a better pitcher as he got older. He developed the splitter and learned to change speeds much like what Curt Schilling is going through right now. He’d still get my vote for the HOF.

I’d like to hear ConnorGraces take on this, if I’m not mistaken, I believe he is in Law, and he always has a great way of dissecting a subject and writing about it so even someone like ME can digest and understand it. Connor, where are you buddy??

Wow, connor, I wrote before I read!!! I see your comment now, DUH!!! My blonde! oops, I’m not blonde anymore, I’ll have to find something new to blame it on!!!!

and I still (and even more so now) say: NO JOHAN SANTANA!

I’m a criminal attorney but I’ve had some experience in libel/slander. Mitchell and MLB have no problems in my opinion. If you publish by written word or spoken speech, content that is found to be both defamatory and untrue (key words there) then you could be sued for libel/slander. BUT if you recieved that information from a reasonably reliable source then you should be ok with regards to a public figure. I read the report and I would say that Mitchell has for a lack of a better word a good source and reasonably reliable that it is true. Where I think you may have a problem is MSNBC and the Boston Globe who named Varitek and others AS BEING IN THE REPORT. They wern’t and that is defamation regardless of the source. In my opinion when the news broadcasted Jason’s name PRIOR to the report coming out and then Ayton came here and repeated the publication, you’ve survived a motion to dismiss and the case goes to a jury. I know that sounds backwards b/c both entities could claim reliable source but they don’t have first hand knowledge, they didn’t interview the trainer and judge his reliability and test his credibility. I may be wrong on this but I’d much rather represent jason than have to defend MSNBC.

007Chow, the standard of proof is not clear and convincing it is preponderance of the evidence. Preponderance (at least in Illinois) is identified as evidence which is of greater or more convincing than the evidence that which is offered in opposition. You are correct, Beyound a reasonable doubt is the highest standard (for criminal matters) preponderence is for Civil and clear and convincing is in a very small number of matters and is somewhere between the two. Think of it as preponderance a driving to the 51yard line, clear and convincing around the 75 yard line and BRD as the one yard line. The actual standard comes from a a famous US Supreme Court case called New York Times v. Sullivan (1964) in which the court held that when commenting on a public figure a statement of facts had to be substantially true, it had to be based on true facts which fullay and fairly justified the comment or opinion. Enough from me, I understand why people hate lawyers.

thanks, ellen

Sorry one more thing and I promise I’ll stop. There actually is one standard of proof greater than Beyound a reasonable doubt. It is called no doubt. In Illnois they were contemplating adopting the no doubt standard in death penalty cases. I’m done. No more legal BS.

as far as johan is concerned as i’ve said previously. ask yourself one question. are they better with johan in the rotation and coco in CF or with lester in the rotation and ells in CF. the answer to me is pretty easy. coco is a lot closer to ells than lester is to johan. again the money is irrelevent IMO. they can afford to pay beck ( as well as johan ) once he gets to that level in terms of ind accomplishments. he’s simply not there yet.

I agree with you on that smckinny. I’ve said it before, guys like Johan come around once every 20 years. This guy has Gibson stuff.

Connor, how are you? I disagree with you a little bit on this subject. As a journalist, writer and author, I have always been careful about attribution. You learn that in journalism school. For Sox and Pinstripes, I approach each post like I am writing a column or a feature story for a publication, so I am careful about attribution there as well. I think that the Globe could not be successfully sued because they were reporting another media outlet’s story. As long as they attributed the original report to MSNBC, or WNBC, I think they are safe. MSNBC is likely safe as well since they probably would not have reported the news if they did not have what they deemed a credible source. Guess that is where we differ. Of course, I am a writer, so I am adamant about freedom of the press.

That said, I did not post MSNBC’s report on Sox and Pinstripes because I wanted to wait until the Mitchell Report was released. I think it is unfair to speculate who is linked to steroids and/or HGH. Once a link is established, whether that link is without a doubt accurate, it is responsible to report it – such as what McNamee and Radomsky said in the Mitchell Report. I do understand that, if McNamee and Radomsky are blowing smoke, and it is proven that some players in this report are innocent, then the damage will have already been done. But there is no way to always be 100 percent sure that a report is completely, undoubtedly accurate. Otherwise, documents like the Mitchell Report would never be released.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

I would like to know the source that provided that alleged list to MSNBC. Were those names just thrown out there, or is there any validity to players whose names were on the list that MSNBC originally reported but not in the actual Mitchell Report. I hope there is no validity about the current Red Sox on the list, but it is obvious that the Mitchell Report just barely scratched the surface of who has used steroids and/or HGH.

I agree about Santana, smckinny. The Sox can use Crisp in center until Kalish is ready. Beckett and Santana are both special starters. It is not difficult to find a productive center fielder. It is difficult to find a lights out starter. The Sox would have two if they get Santana. Give the Twins Ellsbury and Lester, but not Ellsbury and Buchholz. Preferrably, give them Ellsbury, Lowrie, Masterson and a prospect who is not Kalish.

Jeff, I really want you to think very long and very hard if you want to give up the “maybe” future of Ellsbury who just turned 24, in return for the “Maybe” future of Santana (who will turn 30 and has been in the bigs for 12 years.) I have listened to you for about 3 years now, and have always heard the REASONABLE side of you, for the most part. I’m not hearing that now. What I’m hearing now is; grab all the big ones while you can. PLEASE SOME SOXFAN TELL ME I’M WROMG WITH MY OPINION OF THIS. I’M HEARING WRITER SELL OUT, and for them to go for the popular thing, not what you’ve ALWAYS BELIEVED IN. Jeff, as much as you’ve always professed to be a Sox fan, can you say with 1000 percent of your heart that you want Santana. and want to give up Jacoby in the mix????? You’ve always said how much you believed in them and always saying how the Sox were building their farm to use it, not to sell it off like the Yankees had. I really like you Jeff, but I think you need to go back a couple of years and read what you wrote about our farm system and how we need to keep it and use it to OUR advantage; not to sell it off. (at least that’s what I and others, from what has been written about your opinions, have taken to) I think that he (Santana) is ABSOLUTELY due for a really bad year and/or an injury. in. I don’t care that he is “Great” friends with Papi. I STILL SAY NO JOHAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ESPECIALLY NOT AT THE REPORTED MONEY THAT WAS “TOLD” TO US the Sox, as well as the Yankees)

…and Jeff is there any time you post when you DONT remind us of Soxandpinstripes?? Sorry, I for one can’t keep up with the stat guys who are there. This is not anything at all personal, but, Brownie Points seems to be more for just the regular compulsive fan like me, who doesn’t rely on stats and numbers everyday, sorry. I guess you just struck an bad chord with me tonight, SORRY.

Theo and the baseball operations have done a great job of drafting young talent and holding onto the young talent as well.

This is a time when you give up that young talent and go after the big fish, in this case Santana. This is one of the reason’s you stockpile your farm system. Of course the Red Sox have the $$$ to make the trade but they also have the young players to make the trade as well.

You would have a ridiculous rotation if you put Santana in there.

The Red Sox won almost 100 games with Crisp in c.f. last year. Anything in the air he will get to. If he hits .275 or better, that is o.k. with me. I would love to see Ellsbury in c.f. in 2008 and beyond but if you have to give him up to get Santana, I say go for it.

Forget Mayweather vs. Hatton, this is Jeff vs. Ellen.

Apparently the Yankees and Twins have struck up talks regarding Santana again. If the Yankees end up sending Cabrera, Hughes, and Kennedy then I say, “Job well done,” to Theo and Co. They jacked up the price for Johan, kept their strong farm system intact, and are an overall better team than the 2007 World Champions.

Also, when a new big free agent hits the market in the future, the Sox (as Brian mentioned) are essentially stockpiling their farm system in order to land him. It’s illogical to believe that every player in your farm system is going to reach the Majors and be a superstar.

With that being said, I really do think that Ellsbury and Buccholz are special players. The Sox are in a win/win situation right now regarding Santana, and while I am probably leaning towards keeping the younger talent, if they eventually land him, you won’t see me complaining.

Smckinny and Brian, In my opinion, you are better off with Ellsbury and Lester than Coco and Santana.

First, Santana wants too much. You don’t give a pitcher 7 years and 140 million. That’s way too much risk.

Second, Santana had a declining year. He won 15 games and led the league in surrendering home runs. He did have a good ERA, and he did lead the league in strikeouts, but I think there is at least a little room for concern. I know, I know, Beckett was the same way in 2006 and look what he did. The difference is Beckett is still on the way up, Santana, approaching 30 with a lot of innings behind him, could have peaked.

Ellsbury is a prototype leadoff hitter who could bring an awful lot to the Sox lineup and he’s probably only going to get better. Defensively he has as much or more range than Coco and a better arm. If Santana is worth 18 wins, and Lester is worth 14, Ellsbury is certainly worth the difference and probably more.

If I’m the GM, I’m hanging on to my kids who will keep the Sox younger and stronger for more years.

If Santana would take 4 years at 60 million, and be in line with Beckett and Dice-K, I might consider it.

The Mitchell report *******-S. It could have come to the same conclusions and recommendations without rubbing players’ names in the mud. It’s unfortunate that the players basically have no recourse. Is there a problem with substance abuse in baseball? Definitely! Did all or most of the players on that list use the stuff? Probably! Are there hundreds more who were not listed in the report that also used the stuff? Almost assuredly!

The reports nothing about the state of substance abuse in baseball that everyone in the world didn’t already know. Listing players names without being able to conclude guilt beyond a reasonable doubt (quote connorgrace)is BS. It accomplishes nothing except to destroy people’s lives and reputations.

That being said, another reason you will likely never see a law suit is because in order to make the suit work, the player involved would like be deposed by the defendant. That means the player would have to testify and state for the record whether or not he in fact used steroids or HGH. If there’s a suit involved, then the investigations will really get detailed and dirty and players who actually did use the stuff aren’t going to get up there and say they didn’t or they’ll be in line behind Barry Bonds.

gsm. gotta disagree with ya on the whole santana thing. he won 15 games for a horrible team. had an era close to beck’s in his best year and had more strikeouts. plus he’s only a year older. if that’s declining sign me up. ells is no doubt a very talented player. but even if he’s great. he’s gonna give you .300-325/5-10/60-70. solid numbers but nowhere near the impact johan’s arm can have. coco if he ever reaches his po could give you close to that. plus def he’s made 3 errors i think in the last 2 yrs. no way ells is much if any better than that. with boston’s off, though it’s not det or NY, he ( johan ) could win 20-25 games easily. the money again is irrelevent. they print money in fenway. signing johan ( while i’m not in favor of 7 yrs ) to 20-25mm per yr doesn’t impact the team at all in the long run. plus none of the guys they would be parting with except lester and ells would see the field for another 3-4 yrs. plenty of time to replace that talent. it’s basically trading lester and ells for johan and coco. again IMO that’s a no brainer. a sure fire HOF’er if he stays healthy vs. a slightly above avg major league pitcher. lester would be the 4th or 5th best pitcher on the sox IMO. johan would be numero uno.

i do agree with ya on the mitchell report in general. it didn’t really accomplish a great deal. but one thing it did show is they’re not protecting anybody. i think if nothing else guys will be a lil more weary of doing that stuff because of who they are. which is prob what clemens was banking on IF he’s guilty.

gsm,

No way is the combo of Lester/Ellsbury is better than the combo of Santana/Crisp. I like Ellsbury and Lester as much as you do but Santana is the game’s best left handed pitcher and just as good as Beckett. Beckett of course has a much better resume’ in the playoffs.

If you can get Santana and you don’t have to give up your best pitching prospect ( Bucholtz ) you pull the trigger on that deal in a second.

Lester is a great story but I don’t think he is any more than a 15 game winner. Ellsbury is a special player for sure. He’ll be around for several years and create havoc on the basepaths but if you get Santana in that rotation, the Red Sox will win the division by 7 to 10 games and chances are win another World Series. If the Red Sox get Santana, that is like a millionaire hitting the lottery, the rich getting richer. Sign me up for that. Santana has a 95 m.p.h. fastball and the best changeup in the game. Beckett and Santana would combine for 40 wins at least and the Red Sox could win 100 games.

Signing a pitcher to a seven year deal is quite a risk and I wouldn’t disagree on that at all. If the Yankees do get Santana, the Red Sox did there job because the Red Sox drove the price up. It will be very interesting to see what unfolds in the coming days/weeks.

Ellen, I do believe in building a farm system and plugging holes with homegrown talent, but part of the reason you develop a deep farm system is to have key components to make a trade for a difference-making veteran. The Beckett trade is a prime example. I like Ellsbury a lot, and I think he will have a great future. I just think that Santana is worth the cost. The Sox have some good minor league outfielders in the lower levels. I keep mentioning Ryan Kalish because he is a lot like Ellsbury. Just because I want to trade prospects for Santana does not make me a sell out. It means that I recognize that you gotta give up something to get something, and that something the Sox will get, in this case, is someone who is one of the best left-handed starters of his era. You are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine.

Regarding my mentioning Sox and Pinstripes, I mention it in the body of my posts here, and in other blogs I visit, when it is an instrumental part of the point I am making. It is common practice, when you have a site or a blog, to include the URL after your name whereever you post. We have an wide readership base at Sox and Pinstripes, and most of our readers are readers of Brownie Points and many other Sox, Yankees and baseball blogs. I don’t mind at all when authors of other blogs talk about what they have written on theirs when they are illustrating a point.

Also, most of our readers are fans who are not heavily into stats. I’m not a stats guy myself. I rely more on hunches. There are many good Red Sox and Yankees blogs alone that I visit on a regular basis, including this one. They each have their niche. I think the main reason people become regular readers of a blog is that they like the writer/moderator’s unique perspective.

By the way, I don’t need to “profess” to be a Sox fan. It shows just from my passion alone. You need to remember that, in the blogosphere, there will be opinions contrary to yours.

One more thing about the Santana trade talks. It is a win-win situation for the Sox. If they get Santana, they will have the best rotation in baseball. If they don’t make the trade, they will have one of the top rotations in the game, and they will keep Ellsbury, Lowrie and Masterson – unless they send Lowrie to Colorado for Brian Fuentes. That is the beauty of having a well-stocked farm system. You have the ingredients to make some trades that will bolster your team, and you have young players who can fill holes without the owner having to spend a lot of money on a free agent.

For those Yankees fans claiming that their boys found on the Mitchell Report were “nobodies” who could not possibly sway the Subway Series, please read the following:

“Four members of the 2000 Yankees pitching staff turned up in the Mitchell Report (Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Mike Stanton and Denny Neagle).

In the 2000 World Series, hose four combined for 30.2 IP, 5 ER, and a 1.46 ERA The rest of the Yankee staff combined for 16.1 IP, 9 ER and a 4.95 ERA.”

Interesting…

By the way, I’m just having fun with Yankees fans because everytime I talk to one, they are noting that no current Red Sox showed up on the Report.

I always try and respond that plenty of former Red Sox were included, but I guess they wouldn’t be happy unless they saw Papi or Manny mentioned.

Also, consider these events in concurrence with the alleged times these players were juicing:

Paul Lo Duca: absolutely flipped out on an umpire after disagreeing with balls/strikes, was suspended 2 games.

Roger Clemens: throws a sharp piece of a wooden bat at Mike Piazza in the 2000 World Series, claims it was a “reaction”.

David Justice: used to beat his ex-wife, Halle Berry.

Jose Canseco: had baseball bounce off of his oversized, steroid-induced head and over the fence for a home run.

I remember the Canseco head-homer. Too funny. He was the first 40/40 guy and the first to hit a home run for his team with his bat and also hit a home run for the opposing team with his head. Definitely an innovator.

As a Red Sox for my entire life I’ve endured The Yankees and all the hype about their world championships – Now, it turns out that three of their starting pithers in the 90′s were on Steroids. So – The obvious fact is that without those people who would have really won the East and perhaps the World Series. As A Team The Yankees are the worst cheaters of all!! All players on the list should be banned from baseball and their records expunged BUt – We alll know Bud Selig has no guts to do The Right Thing!!

Wow! If Vince thought he spent an extraordinary amount of time last year defending A-rod, he’s in for a long winter of defending the Yankees now. He’ll have carpel-tunnel syndrome for sure.

Jeff,
Would you be for or against that Lowrie for Fuentes trade? Seems to me that they could address the relief situation in house rather than to part ways with what should be a more valuable SS. They already have a good pen and they don’t need to trade their SS of the future unless the return is better. Fuentes is good, but there are already three relievers that can throw and throw well in big situations on the team.

http://statisticianmagician.mlblogs.com/

I know that beating up on the Yankees is just too much fun. However, I think you have to recognize Andy Pettite for bellying up to the bar and shouldering his beating. He could have continued to maintain his denial-stance, but finally owned up to his behavior. Let’s not forget, at the time he admits to taking HGH, it was not a violation of the rules. I think there is a bit of a disconnect in his statement — I didn’t take it to enhance my performance, I only took it to get back to performing for my team more quickly…isn’t that enhancing one’s performance?

That having been said, I do believe he deserves some positive recognition for owning up to at least a part of what he did, rather than attempt to maintain denial in the face of the truth.

It would be refreshing to see Rocket do the same thing, although I expect him to assemble a major team of lawyers (I am an attorney — but I don’t want your denial business Roger, thank you), and litigate the league into submission, until he gets voted into the HoF, declares himself vindicated, and drops the suit.

Back the last couple of years before the Rocket left Boston, I had a good friend of mine who had season’s tickets here in Cleveland, who would take me to the game when Boston was in town, and Roger was pitching. It was virtually always the same routine — he’d pitch well for 3-4 innings, and then the roof would cave in on him. I was not sad to see him leave Boston, feeling that the best part of his career was behind him. Then, to see how his performance picked up overnight for a mediocre Blue Jays team was rather astounding. Two CY’s in 2 years?

For the past several years, I have been hoping that Roger would forego the larger payday, come back to Boston for less money, and the ability to win 1+ more games and put himself in fron of Cy Young as the all-time winningest Red Sox pitcher. In retrospect, I sure am glad that did not happen. Hopefully, Beckett can outdistance Roger, with only about 156 more victories to go!

In terms of the proposition of trading Jed Lowrie, I do think the Sox need to shore up the bullpen. Donnelly likely won’t pitch this year. One has to wonder what Timlin will have left. Manny D’s inconsistency at times has been frustrating. Can any of the kids, i. e., Breslow, Corey, Hansen, or Pauley make an effective jump to the majors this year? Then there’s Okie Dokie — can he have another year like last year, or will hitters become more used to his unorthodox delivery? That having been said, I would hope the Sox would hold onto Lowrie until there is no chance of their obtaining Santana. The Twins need a young shortstop/third baseman.

Fuentes would not be a bad addition to the bullpen, but trading Lowrie prematurely could force the Sox to trade away more of the prospects for Santana that my fellow bloggers are so unwilling to part with.

In terms of trading away a promising middle infielder, the Sox just traded away a ROY ss 2 years ago, and that trade hasn’t seemed to hurt them. The farm system appears quite able to develop players at that position. Frankly, I am more concerned about the development of the Sox future catcher than anything else. I am counting on Tek to be the mainstay for the next couple of years. He will be 36 at the start of this coming season, and has caught a lot of games for the Sox over the past 9 years. I do hope the Sox are able to arrange a contract extension with him prior to spring Training. I also hope they can identify his heir-apparent during the season. Look’s like the Indians are marketing Kelly Shoppach. Maybe we ought to reverse part of the CoCo trade, so that he can play one of the corner outfield positions for Cleveland, and the Sox get Shoppach back. Just a thought.

Lowrie is projected as a second basemen in the majors. He isn’t the Red Sox s.s. of the future. He is defintely expendable, Pedroia should be there for several years.

Bryan Corey is 34 years old, not a kid. A lifelong minor leaguer for the most part. He will be given a chance to earn a spot during spring training. He pitched well in September this year and also pitcher fairly well the previous September. He’ll be a member of the Red Sox when they go to Japan, just a guess of course.

Donnelly says his target date to pitch in 2008 is July 31.

Watching 60 minutes. Interview with AROD coming up. Interesting?? I’ll watch.

Well Brian, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I think the price for Santana in terms of players and commitment is just too high, especially when you consider the starting pitchig the Sox already have in place. At this point, I just think a prolific leadoff hitter is more valuable to the Sox than another quality starter.

gsm,

You can never have enough pitching. I am sure you would agree with that, a former hurler yourself.

How about those Patriots gsm. They will finish the season 16-0 for sure.

Jeff,

What happened to your beloved Steelers? The division could be slipping away, the Browns are on the Steelers heels. You better watch out, the Steelers will be a wild card, now that would be funny!!!

lol. Brian, I figured you would chime in with a comment about the Steelers. Jacksonville definitely looked like the third best AFC team today, maybe even the second best.They have plain and simply been outplayed the last two weeks. I’m not overly concerned. I didn’t expect more than an 8-8 team this year, so if they reach the playoffs, I’ll be satisfied. They need to upgrade their offensive line, secondary and special teams in the off-season.

Regarding Lowrie, opinions are changing about him at the shortstop position. He has improved, and he can play shortstop and second base. He could be Minnesota’s starting shortstop. In Colorado, he would play second since Tulowitzki is at shortstop. In Boston, he would provide good insurance at shortstop and second base.

Jeff,

Call it the curse of the Patriots, lol. After losing to the Patriots, teams usually lose the following week. Cowboys are one of the few that hasn’t.

Everything you read/here about Lowrie is he will be a second baseman in the big leagues. Haven’t seen him play in person so I can’t comment.

Brian, normally I would agree with you, and a good case for that could be 2006 when the Sox gave away Arroyo for WMP. However, I think this case is an exception because of the price and required commitment. That is really the big sticking point with me, although I think giving up Ellsbury would also be a big mistake. Coco didn’t have a horrible year, but he hasn’t been what we expected and right now I think the outfield is something that needs to be addressed more than pitching. Keep in mind that Manny is getting along in years and likely will be in the outfield about 125-140 games this year. Papi is recovering from surgery and will likely need time off as well. We’ll see about those things, but I think Theo and the boys are looking at the big picture, knowing they are in pretty good shape right now, and that’s why they haven’t jumped at the deal.

gsm,

You add Santana to the Red Sox rotation and they are clearly the team to beat.

Beckett and Santana on top of the rotation would be great to watch. The 2 best pitchers in the game on the same staff, that is scary.

The Yankees need Santana alot more than the Red Sox do.

The Red Sox offense will be just fine in 2008. I think J.D. Drew will have a very productive year. I still don’t like his contract.

My concern is the Red Sox bullpen before Papelbon.

jeff. add a deep threat at WR for our steeler’s wish list for next year as well. their passing game is woeful. i know r-berger in terms of stat’s is having a good year but they just are entirely too conservative in the passing game. his yds per attempt gets worst every week i think. you can’t throw 10 yd slants and outs on every play and expect to beat people. their just too predictable. and now their “D” is looking tired.

getting johan would mean you have a top 4 of beck, johan, dice, and buch. all in their mid to late 20′s. signed, except for beck, for the next 5 years. i mean dice might wind up being the 4th best pitcher on that staff. it’s just too good to pass up IMO. i know it’s a couple of POTENTIALLY good players and a ton of an investment but still. that would be a pretty special. regardless of who the 5th guy is.

It doesn’t appear that the Twines will accept the offer with the inclusion of Ellsbury and more. If Ellsbury lives up to the expectation, he can potentially spark the Sox to win every game he plays. As great as Santana, he can only win a game every 5 days asides from the $$$ issue. Being a LHP, how well or poorly did Santana do in Fenway?

“wiyhout the inclusion of Ellsbury”

Getting back to Pettitte’s “apology” for using HGH, why is everybody so quick to herald the guy as a “class act”, etc.?

Did anybody actually READ his apology? First of all, couldn’t he have held a press conference, called in to a news outlet, or did something a little more formal than releasing a written statement most likely crafted by his attorney or PR rep?

Second of all, he says something to the tune of “If what I did was wrong, then I apologize, I made a mistake for two days,” alluding to the amount of time he claimed to have taken HGH. Obviously what you did was wrong and you know it.

I’m not being extra-hard on him because he’s a Yankee, but the apology was just bogus to me. If you haven’t read it, do so and tell me that he’s being completely sincere.

And while you’re at it, read his comments when Jason Grimsley first implicated Pettitte with HGH use last year and Pettitte completely denied it.

I am not downplaying the fact that he is only one of three players to come forward and admit the Mitchell Report findings were accurate, that’s certainly admirable. But I think the media is too quick to try and turn his admission of guilt into something much more.

Zachary, I agree with you about Pettitte. I addressed that in my post yesterday. I really don’t believe he took HGH just twice.

Though I believe the Santana deal will happen with Boston, it is a win-win situation. The Sox will be solid with Santana, and they will be solid with Ellsbury, Buchholz and Lester.

SMckinny, Santonio Holmes is an adequate deep threat. The corp of receivers is strong, but the offensive line is not as good this year, so Big Ben hasn’t had as much time to throw the ball. I think the Steelers should draft a difference-making cornerback, or an offensive lineman, with their first round pick. Or a running back to team with Parker.

Brian, I agree about the bullpen. I am comfortable with Papelbon, Okajima, Delcarmen, Timlin and Corey, but I think the Sox need a top right-handed set-up man, and another reliable lefty. I have a feeling that Craig Hansen will make a positive difference in Boston during the 2008 season.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

Jeff,

You might be right about Hansen in 2008. He’ll start the year in Pawtucket ( I don’t know if anyone has ever been to Pawtucket, that is enough motivation right there ) but could end up in Boston during the summer.

Remember Delcarmen started the year last year in AAA and came on to help Boston sometime in June and never went back to AAA. That could be the case with Hansen in 2008, let’s hope. Hansen was rushed to the big leagues as we all know.

C’mon, Zach, take it easy on Andy Pettitte will you? It’s not easy to be arrogant and self-serving while apologizing but he pulled it off. He did it for the TEAM, not himself. And it was only TWO days out of his entire career. And he’s not entirely sure it was wrong to begin with. He says “IF what I did was wrong….” It’s the most condescending apology I’ve heard in a long time.

I wonder how many Red Sox would have made that list if the investigation was conducted by someone outside MLB, or the Red Sox organization for that matter? VEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRYYYYYYY convenient that none of your players made the list aside from 2 washed-up “rent-a-relievers” while the guy running the show works for the Red Sox. David Ortiz never hit more than 20 dingers for Minnesota, but he puts on a chowderhead jersey and hits 50? Not to mention that Ortiz’s dome is visible from space. C’mon, chowds, WAKE THE **** UP! Your team is not the only clean club in the league. Your boy Mitchell took 2 years to investigate steroids in baseball, but could only find people in New York to spill the beans? That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. As a Yankee fan, I am not denying that there are players on my team that used drugs, Clemens and Pettite included. But, don’t think for 1 freaking second that your team is free of guilt just because Mitchell decided not to throw HIS OWN TEAM under the bus. Don’t be so **** naive.

If Pettitte just used HGH two days of his long career as claimed and the fact that HGH wasn’t a banned substance in 2002, I would gladly accept Pettitte’s qualified and half hearted apology if I were a Yankee fan. If Pettitte, in fact, used HGH for healing purpose and for the team, he should not be penalized for the technical infraction. Pettitte should be reprimanded at best. But the truth is did Pettitte tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Agreed 007, we have no reason to believe Pettitte was telling the truth. Clearly he has an issue with doing so…

Last year, the Los Angeles Times reported that former Yankee Jason Grimsley told the feds Pettitte was one of the players who used performance-enhancing drugs. This is how Pettitte responded to that allegation at the time: “I haven’t done anything,” he said. “I guess reports are saying I’ve used performance-enhancing drugs. I’ve never used any drugs to enhance my performance in baseball before. I don’t know what else to say except it’s embarrassing my name would be out there.”

The blog is borderline obsessive on the Mitchell report names

ie. Pettite, Clemens

We, as baseball fans, should be able to close the issue, we do this after every loss during the season.

On a more “positive” note (no pun intended) It seems as though the Sox pitching satff is dominating the TYIB awards:

Beckett= pitcher of the year

Papelbon= closer of the year

Okajima= setup man of the year

Buchholz= moment of the year (no-hitter)

Thats how the WS was won, pitching.

The Yankees fans are crying how biased Mitchell report was. The Yankees fans won’t be happy unless Manny or Papi were implicated. I just don’t see how Mitchell can get away for being biased or for according preferential treatment to the Red Sox. If there is a scintilla of evidence that Mitchell was indeed prejudiced, we will hear from many of his investigators and federal agents involved in the probe. However, it does not mean that the players not implicated were innocent. It simply means there is insufficient credible evidence to associate them as PED users/abusers.

just to correct our irate yankee fan. if i’m not mistaken when the report was completed those 2 guys were very much members of the sox. one was hurt however. the report was completed a few months ago and just released last week.

it’s starting to be canseco all over again though. people are either acknowledging it it or no commenting it. it’s naieve to think those guys are the only ones who did it but i suppose at least it might help eliminate it going forward. it’s interesting clemens attorney labeled it as “slanderous”. wonder if he’ll sue his buddy for slander? or do anything to challenge the credibility of his claims. my guess is he takes the mcguire approach. refuse to address it. hit the golf course and count your cash.

007chow,

Anger reachs far beyond Yankeeland, to the midwest where the Tribe dwells.

Indians fans have expressed their anguish about their teams “disppointing” perfromance in the ’07 ALCS with the same resentment as the Yanks, such phrases told are:

“One word: Papi”

“You can’t spell Pedroia without P.E.D”

and

“whose you captian now?”(referencing to the fake accusation of Jason Varitek)

Rebutals:

Papi plays in hitter friendly Fenway Park, in the DH role, what can you expect.

Varitek is 35, his highest career total is 25 HR, he had 17 this season, not a huge drop.

Pedroia lost weight over last offseason, and evident by his 8 HR, he doesn’t have even medicore power, also his .442 slugging was the result of 39 doubles.

Conclusion: Other fans are just jealous.

Vince, don’t take offense, alright?

I guess chazbedlam believes the best defense is a good offense — trying to point fingers away from his Yanks by pointing them in other directions. I would think that for the reason chazbedlam mentioned — Big Papi’s dramatic production rise — he had to be a prime target of the investigation. Sorry chazzie, but I refuse to believe that Mitchell took a dive because he is on the Sox board of directors. Those are some pretty powerful allegations, hope you have more to back them up than mere supposition (hmmmm, sounds like something chazzie’s beloved Rocket will be saying soon).

As to other Sox — Manny’s been putting up similar numbers for 15 years. Are Yanks fans going to accuse him of having taken stuff for that long? I would like to be around when chazzie accuses Schill. How about Beckett. He was hurt most of his career in Florida — wouldn’t he have had a more injury-free start if he had taken stuff? Do you want to accuse him of taking stuff over the past 2 years — I suspect he and all other major leaguers have been tested and re-tested to death the last couple of years. In fact, wasn’t that the point that A-Rod made during his television interview, he was constantly being tested, and felt he was tested more often than others last year because of the production he demonstrated. I also would anticipate that every current or former locker room person was interviewed, including the Sox people. Yet, nothing arises to implicate the Sox players during the past 5 years.

CoCo — he was hurt during a significant portion of 2006, and never fully healed. If he were on the stuff, would that have been the case? Pap — when he began to wear his arm out in 2006, the Sox shut him down while they still had a chance at the post-season, rather than take a chance on a long-term injury. The Sox used the same sort of philosophy with Buch this year. In fact, if you looked back over this past year, most Sox team members were off on their production, except for Lowell. In 2006, they had so many injuries first their pitching staff, then their position players were decimated. Who among those boys were on the stuff?

Who else: JD Drew? If so, why has he been so often injured? One of the kids — DP or Ells. If that’s the case, that drugs are in the clubhouse currently, then the Sox have a major problem. However, that does not seem to be the case, either with the Sox or with many other teams.

Maybe in saying this my glasses show their rose-colored tint. However, I believe that had drug suppliers fingered any other members of the Sox, or implicated more recent Sox useage of the stuff, they would have been in the report. Former members — Mo Vaughn, Paxton Crawford, Mike Stanton, Canseco, Jeremy Giambi, Manny Alexander are names I recognize as former players.

Why then, are we saying the homie gave his Sox boys a free pass?

I think the thing that the Yanks fans find stinging is not only were some of their players or former players accused of being on the stuff, but rather that they were on it when the Yanks were winning. That one has to be difficult to slide down the old gullet.

If Pedroia is on steroids, he needs to get his money back.

There was an article in the ProJo (I think) where Pedroia dubbed the new wave of MLB players “the clean era”, citing the hard work and immediate impact that the young Red Sox have had (Pedroia, Papelbon, Ellsbury, Lester, Buchholz, Delcarmen, etc.).

He also talked about how he has neither seen nor heard about steroids in his Minor/Major League career, a far cry from Jose Canseco’s stories about the “steroid culture” in locker rooms around baseball.

One statement: Mitchell by law can only release names that he has evidence for(not just statistics), wonder why McGwire or Sosa didn’t crack the list.

Bravo, well said. dbenjamin. A powerful statement said it all for all of us. I salute you.

Roger just issued another statement denying the allegation. He will publicly answer questions in an appropriate place at an appropriate time.

First of all, where has Ian been throughout the winter meetings and the mitchell report?

Second of all, the report is not only done by a Sox guy, but the report is by two new york trainers. I mean what do you expect? It’s like a sister at her sleepover sharing secrets about her brother and then gossip about other boys, except add in the threat of prison.

Do you all really think this report is A: completely full of the steroid users from 5 years ago to now? B: not showing NY bias despite the fact both trainers trained in NY and were in NY locker rooms?

Can you honestly tell me that? I mean you all make a big stink about Yankees fans and how they are unhappy no current Sox were named and how their 2000 ws ring is tarnished but do you honestly think the 2000 mets, or every other team didn’t have guys not named? Mitchell himself said every team had guys using. It is such a ridiculous report, and even more absurd to think history should be changed because George Mitchell found some checks written by a small percentage of major leaguers from the northeast.

As far as Pettitte, the report said he used it twice, yet you all seem to not believe him when his confession matches it. Yet you also are so proud no current Sox use it or no Sox named were current. The door doesn’t swing both ways, you can’t say “well the Yankees named must have been using it forever” then say in the same breath “Roger Clemens didn’t use steroids until he left the Red Sox”. Get a grip. The Report was an interesting read and certainly shed light on the fact that some key players have used it.

But if you think the Yankees were the only team with numbers of players that high using steroids, you have to be a complete idiot. Do the math, two trainers from NY and the Yankees and Orioles get hit the hardest. Tell me they get a Boston or Oakland trainer to squeal and those numbers don’t change. Give me a break, the whole thing is a new version of the Salem Witch Trials.

When is Ian going to comment on this whole steriod thing?

If Papi was on roids, he’d be the first case where only his gut got bigger.

Manny has essentially the exact same stats almost every year, his entire career. When would have he been on roids?

I love the Red Sox as much as the next fan does.

Do you guys really think nobody on the 2004 Red Sox took anything to enhance there ability/make them a better player. If you people think that, dream on. I have some ocean front property to sell you in Omaha and Lincoln Nebraska.

Bud Selig sure loved it when McGwire and Sosa were chasing the H.R. record. Selig should be taken a long shower because he is dirty!!! Not too mention Donald Fehr and others associated with the game of baseball. Alot of the bigshots in the game of baseball stink!!!!

Canseco writes a book and now all of this.

I have had enough of this Mitchell report.

Do I believe Roger Clemens took something, absolutely. He reminds me of Bonds, took it later in his career as he started to get up there in age.

Some of these guys like Marvin Bernard, Jeremy Giambi should be ashamed of themselves. They took some illegal stuff and couldn’t hit .300 in a beer belly softball league.

I guess the thing to say is I took it once or twice.

Brian Roberts/Andy Pettite, I was born on a day that ends in Y but it wasn’t yesterday. Whoever believes them, your a fool!!! Did they take it there entire career? Unlikely but they took it more than what they say, no doubt about it.

Yankeevmn,

Let these tools have their fun. Noone is going to get them off their high horse, and admit that baseball (not just the Yankees) as a whole is forever tarnished by the useage of PED’s. After all, their team of stand up, drug free players just beat an entire league of roided up juicers, and won a world championship! I mean, that is truly incredible! Congrats fellas, I’m glad that the Chowds are the ONLY shining beacon of truth, and drug-free competition in MLB. Get real, chowds. Your **** stinks even worse than those exposed because you were lucky enough to have an inside man conduct the probe. Don’t feed me your **** that I am making serious allegations without facts to support it. Seems like your boy Mitchell already set the standard for that. I’m not siding with Clemens or Pettite here, either. I find their involvement in this to be completely repulsive and reprehensible.

Again, just don’t act like your team is without perpetrators. Perpetrators NOT including Gagne (when he was a DODGER, not a Red Sox), or Donnely (who spent a boatload of last season on the DL.). It’s too bad that Mitchell had to take this rivalry outside the lines and make it personal. You chowds finally were fielding a worthy adversary. An adversary that was worthy of all the hype surrounding our 2 great franchises. Now, I have lost all the respect I had for your franchise and replaced it with hate. Thank your boy Mitchell for illustrating just how low Boston will stoop to get one over on New York. Thanks for doing nothing constructive, “Senator”. If only the Yankees had a U.S. Senator on the payroll…….

Okay first off I’d like to say that all of the Red Sox mentioned in the reports alleged steroid use took before or after there time with the Red Sox. I think it’s total b.s that there are Yankees fans out there complaining because more of there players were name then anyone else. In addition there use happened during the “Yankees Dynasty”. If there were Red Sox that used ‘roids or HGH none of them were during the two Red Sox championship runs so it’s not like it gave us a great deal of talent that propelled us to the top like the Yankees.
Also, I for one think that Andy Pettites apology was down right pathetic. You got caught man up. Don’t give any of that “if what I did was wrong, I apologize” bull ****. You **** well know what you did was wrong because if you didn’t why would you come out and make a public statement about it. And wow only two days? Two days is two more than anyone else and I don’t know why he’s allowed to use it for two days just so his elbow can get better. Why not let every player that gets hurt use it because they want to get back and help their team too?

Way to be a real class act chaz. Go ahead and hire a senator and check it out. Mitchells first allegiance wasn’t to the Red Sox it was to the MLB or the league wouldn’t have selected them. You’re not going to be happy unless you see Beck, Papi or Manny on that list and sorry fellas it just aint going to happen. Other key contributors to the club were the young guys and I think that we can all agree that a large percentage of the kids coming up arent “roid guys. I mean cmon now Pedroia? If we was on ‘roids he should sue the guy that sold them to him cuz they obviously werent working.

When did I say I wanted to see anyone on the “list”? Frankly, I don’t want ANYONE in baseball to be juicing. I wouldn’t be satisfied if Papi or Manny was a juicer. Sure, I made the comment about Papi’s inflated numbers when he suited up in your uni, but it was to illustrate a point. The fact is, Papi and Manny are VITAL to the current success of the game. They are mega-stars and I enjoy hating them, for the RIGHT reasons.

Like I said, you can go on and think that all of your players are clean. That pretty much solidifies you chowds as the most naive ******* on the face of God’s green earth! I will be satisfied when PED’s are eliminated from all teams including your group of “boy scouts”.

BTW, I never accused your young players of juicing, either. Don’t put words in my mouth. I’m sure that the vast majority of your roster is clean, SAME AS OURS. Think about that the next time you want to start talking a bunch of 1998*, 2000* ****. Don’t let a couple bad apples spoil the whole bushel.

Chaz- The Yankees probably do have a Senator (or 2)in their pockets, they just have a lousy one(s). I freely admit that we probably have a couple of guys that were involved, but hey, every team has them. We just need to get on with the business of things. I for one don’t go over to the Yanks blog dishing out the ****, so please don’t waste MY time here doing that@!

I’m pretty sure I never said at all the you said that the kids were using it. So why don’t you learn how to read before you put words in my mouth there big guy.

and Chaz, can’t you come up with a better monaker for Our Sox?, Chowds is getting a bit old with all your over usage.

BTW Chaz, just so you know, another word or synonym for the word monaker, is “nickname”.

Thanks for the backup Ellen =)
Chowdas was starting to annoy me too haha.

And Chaz I’m afraid that when the bad apples are the key parts of the bushel, you have to spoil the entire thing. Check the stats of Clemens and Pettite during the playoffs those years as opposed to the rest of the staff. Sorry bud.

Soxprospects.com projected roster:

Starters:

Beckett

Schilling

Matsuzaka

Buchholz

Lester

Wakefield

Bullpen:

Papelbon

Okajima

Delcarmen

Joey Devine(Braves farmhand)

Timlin

Synder

Corey

Breslow

Tavarez

Lopez

Lineup:

C: Varitek

1B: Youkilis

2B: Pedroia

3B: Lowell

SS: Lugo

LF: Ramirez

CF: Ellsbury

RF: Drew

DH: Papi

Bench:

Geriald Laird

Kevin Cash

Mark Sweeney

Alex Cora

Bobby Keilty

Coco Crisp

Opinions?

RSJones, SoxProspects.com is a very in-depth site – and one that I visit on a regular basis for research on prospects – but that list is not based on fact. It is just a speculative roster. Obviously, it is not exact because the Sox would not carry more than four bench players if they have seven relievers.

Laird is a possibility if the Sox don’t trade Ellsbury because a Crisp for Laird deal has been mentioned. Right now, the backup catcher will be either Cash (he was just signed to a minor league deal), Mirabelli (they could resign him) or Triple-A guys Dusty Brown or George Kottaras.

Cora is a definite. Kielty is drawing interest as a platoon right fielder for the Phillies, but he could return as the fourth outfielder. Not sure why the Sox would want Sweeney when Chris Carter could fill the same role.

Papelbon, Okajima, Delcarmen, Timlin and Corey, in my opinion, will occupy five of the seven bullpen spots. Tavarez will be part of the team if he is not traded, but he will likely be dealt to an NL team. The Sox shopped Snyder, who is out of options, at the winter meetings. Breslow and Lopez will battle for the left-handed specialist’s role, but Breslow is also out of options. I think Lopez will be back with the Sox in 2008, much to my chagrin.

If the Sox do not trade for Santana (which I think they will), it will be interesting to see if the opening day rotation is Beckett, Dice-K, Schilling, Lester and Buchholz, with Wakefield as the long reliever and spot starter. Personally, I like that idea, since Wakefield has experience out of the bullpen and can give the Sox innings in back-to-back games. I would rather Wakefield fill the long reliever/spot starter role than Tavarez. Not sure why SoxProspects.com listed Joey Devine, but if the Sox could pry him from the Braves, he would be a good addition.

Regarding this Mitchell Report talk, Yankees fans need to realize that noone here believes that the Red Sox are spotless. Any educated baseball fan understands that players from every team have used steroids and/or HGH. I do agree that Pettitte’s excuse is flimsy, as is Brian Roberts excuse. Anyone who says he just used steroids or HGH once or twice is a liar. They are taking it to recover from injuries and/or recover faster between workouts. It is obvious that steroids and HGH are not substances that you take a few times, especially if you are a professional athlete whose body is a tool to earn multiple millions. It is proven that HGH and steroids, though unhealthy, do work, thus the reason so many athletes are willing to risk so much to take them.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

jeff. first of all if you’re right about the sox getting johan, what a wonderful x-mas present that would be for RSN BTW, who do you think they will ultimately give up for him? secondly i hope you’re wrong about coco for laird. SURELY they can get more for coco than laird. any of the sox catchers mentioned are as good as he is IMO. if you’re going to have a non-productive back up catcher why trade talent for it? you can get that off prod from cash or mirabelli most likely.

Ellencullum,

Hey, asshat that is questioning my ability to read, and questioning my knowledge of the English language. If you are going to “teach me” what a new word means, you need to start by acutally spelling the word right. It’s NOT “monaker”, it’s “moniker”. So, how da ya like dem apples, loser. Maybe next time you want to pick a fight with someone regarding intelligence, don’t bring a knife to a gunfight. Ok, Scooter?

Oh, and the Chowds blast is not for the team. That’s you fans! If you would like to know what I call your team, it usually looks like this on the blogs:

**** ****

So, why bother? We’ll see you in April, Chowds.

GoSox,
If you think that a 96 year old pitcher is a key part of our rotation, than you are just as smart as that idiot Brian Cashman who re-signed him. Seems like Pettite didn’t even do anything until 2002, so he wasn’t a key part of any championships either while “on the juice”. If everyone is so conviced that they are both juicers, then why is the IMPARTIAL congressional hearing not summoning Pettite, OR EVEN CLEMENS for that matter to testify? I wonder if it’s because your boy Mitchell’s sources are full of ****? How about this, let’s subpoena every Major Leaguer, put them on national TV, and drag everyone’s name through the mud with heresay and conjecture. That way we can really damage the game and acheive nothing.

Oh, and “conjecture” means “speculation”….still too big a word? It also is another word for “guess”. Smoke my pole, Ellencullum. How’s that for class?

extremely impressed Chaz- you should take you’re obscenities back to The Yankee blog, we don’t need them here.
and as for class, There is only one Yankee fan ob this blog who has any class, it’s certainly not you!

ellen: Why even bother to respond? Just ignore him. Afterall, we cannot deprive someone, regardless how offensive he may be, his first amendment right. He has the right to be heard, but not the right to be listened to.

I for one welcome you, Chaz, to Brownie Points, because I need more stuff to laugh at during the day. By all means, keep it up. You’re doing wonders for my sense of humor.

Chaz buddy to tell you the truth I think you need to relax. Your boys got convicted not ours. Im 15 years old and I’m acting more mature than you right now. This blog is about baseball, not questioning someones intelligence. It was also really mature to be calling ellen a loser there big guy.

Haven’t been here for a while. Since the Lowell re-signing, if i remember correctly. How’s everybody doing ?

Looks like nothing changed here. We still got that weird mix of smart, relevant observations by our regulars ….. and classless, pointless trash talking by losers that have nothing else to do than posting **** and hatred comments on other fanbases blogs. Last one on the list : chaz.

Or maybe ….. Sentinel, is this you ?

A lot of Yankees fans are saying that McNamee’s testimony without evidence is heresay. Wrong. If McNamee testified that he did what to who or what he saw, it is not hearsay and statement is admissible in any court even without proof or evidence. If Mcnamee testified that so and so told him that somesone did this and that, that is heresay and is inadmissible.
How reliable is McNamee’s testimony is an issue for the jury to decide.

However, in a criminal proceeding, a witness’s testimony alone without corroborating evidence is insufficient to convict an accused. Mitchell was certainly not conducting a criminal investigation.

He may have the right to his opinion, but not the right to shoot off his foul mouth here. MLB.com has rules about that. Remember Fagan, Sentinel etc???

i would say the fact that pettite ack’d it lends some credibility to the guy’s testimony. clemen’s was his “boy” why would he implicate him without merit?

on a brighter note the pioneer press in minn has an article that say the johan deal could get done. and according to their info it will be the package of lester, coco, masterson, and lowrie. IF it happens kudos to theo & co. of course a lot of the credit would go to johan. his $$$ deamnds greatly reduce the teams capable of making a deal.

i meant to say could get done within the next few days.

smckinny: Acquiring Santana without giving up Ellsbury would be the best x’mas present I’ve even gotten. Yes, if it happens Theo & co should be immortalized for the mission impossible.
I heard Santana and Papi are good friends. It helps Santana to make the decision easier.

Here is the article to which smckinney was referring:

Charley Walters: Boston Red Sox still in lead for Minnesota Twins ace Johan Santana

Pioneer Press

Article Last Updated: 12/19/2007 12:42:40 AM CST

SHOOTER CHARLEY WALTERS

The Boston Red Sox remain the favorite to acquire Johan Santana from the Twins, insiders say.

Boston remains firm, though, as initially reported by the Pioneer Press, in offering just Jon Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie and Justin Masterson. The Red Sox are adamantly opposed to substituting Jacoby Ellsbury for Crisp, and that’s the current holdup.

Regardless, there’s buzz that the Santana trade could be made within days.

Boston has a larger pool of players who interest Minnesota and can contribute to the Twins immediately, whereas many of the New York Yankees’ top prospects are at least a season or two away from succeeding in the major leagues. The Yankees remain firmly opposed to trading pitchers Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy together for Santana, and they certainly won’t trade Joba Chamberlain.

The dark horse for Santana remains the Angels, who have enough young players to appease the Twins, but they have been quiet, much the same as they were before popping out of the weeds with a $90 million, five-year free-agent offer for Torii Hunter.

I agree that if the deal goes through without Ellsbury, it would be excellent. He is the reason that I have been so stubborn regarding obtaining Santana.

That would be great – no, not great, but exceptional – if the Sox can acquire Santana without giving up Ellsbury or Buchholz. However, I will believe it only after it is confirmed. The Sox need another young veteran starter, so I hope they make the deal regardless. I trust that Epstein would not give up Ellsbury and Buchholz, or Ellsbury and Lester. I really want to see a top three of Beckett, Santana and Dice-K in 2008.

Jeff

http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

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