Back at the Trop

IN case you haven’t noticed, Matt Garza has a PERFECT GAME THROUGH six!!! He looks electric. This guy has developed a real swagger against the Red Sox.

Good to be back here at Tropicana Field. Hearing those cowbells gave me instant flashbacks to last year’s ALCS. It’s still stunning that the Red Sox lost Game 7. Is there anybody who thought they were going to the way they rallied to force it to Game 7?

Of course, it was Garza who was most pivotal that night. And here he goes again.

Anyway, on to more positive matters, this team comes in here playing torrid baseball. They are not only winning, but seemingly finding a different way to do it every night. Jonathan Van Every? Whatever it takes, right?

One thing the Red Sox truly need is more innigs from the starting pitchers.

Here is the breakdown:

Beckett: 7 innings, 6 innings, 6 innings, 5 innings, 4.2 innings.
Lester: 5 innings, 6 innings, 7 innings, 6 innings, 6 innings
Wakefield: 6, 9, 7, 7.
Penny: 6, 3, 6, 2.2
Dice-K: 5.1, 1.
Masterson: 5.1, 5.1..

Obviously Wakefield has been huge and Masterson gets a free pass because he is still getting stretched out. But the bullpen is being counted on too heavily.

The situation is weighing on the manager so much that even as the Red Sox were coming back from 5-0 down last night, he was worried the game would go into extra innings and what that would mean to the ‘pen.

 

162 Comments

Hey everyone. Had to get in since I’d be the top entry in the list. The Sox should feel worn out tonight. I’d be stunned if they weren’t. Man they need a day off. The bullpen has got to be stressed. Every starting pitcher minus Tim Wakefield and our side armer has been banged up — notably Brad Penny. If they can get through this, the can survive anything.
Talk about an endurance test.

I expect Beckett to be wild, Lugo to be hopeless and J.D. to be helpless. We’ll see. If I were Terry — which I am glad I’m not, I’d be moving some bench players on the field just to give the mightly 9 — minus Lugo some rest.

Beckett can’t find the strike zone — AGAIN and is bringing up his pitch count. If I were Terry — I’d be hoping for lots of antacid. He’ll need it.

14 pitches for one inning. Grrr….

Where is everyone tonight?

Josh looked better (so far) this outing than last . Keep it going Josh… NOW COME ON BATS!!!! Let’s score three this time!!!

Hey Ellen…how ya doing!

ian… Whats up with the blog (sign on and posting times (sometimes 10 -30 minutes)… MLB.COM (MARK) said the problems were “taken care of yesterday”,,, not the case.
Can you please find out what the heck the problem is??
Thanks,
Ellen

Garza is mowing the Sox down like flies. Gonna be a tough win.

Hey Dave Baby… Here i am!!!!!

Hey Ellen Baby. If the Sox win tonight I will be very happy. Been a very emotional week for me. Let’s pray for better times.

How are you guys tonight?

I attended that game 7 and I thought Boston was going to win as well. Pedroia hit that 1st inning H.R. and had no doubt then. Garza shut them down that night, just like he did in game 3. Garza gives Boston fits. He has the best stuff on the staff. The guy that has the most potential on there staff is riding the bus in A.A.A. and that is David Price, the one who got the save during that game 7. Enough of that game 7, bad memories for me. I spent some $$$$ on tix and Boston lost. I always thought if Boston had beaten T.B. they would have taken down Philly as well. Oh well…..

I know it is early in the season but Boston is finding a way to win. Could it be one of those magical seasons???? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm….I guess we’ll find out together as the season unfolds.

I am amazed the record the Sox have despite there rotation. The rotation hasn’t done much. Wakefield is on a roll, Masteron looked good against the Yankees. Lester has pitched 1 good game and Beckett as well. Let’s face it, I doubt Lester and Beckett will continue too pitch the way they have. Now Brad Penny, that is another story. We’ll find out how he does on Sunday, a very short leash for that hefty righty.

Dave, The RedSox are feeling “dramatic” tonight, lol!! They want to make us appreciate the wins when they win late!!! I say.. Can’t we just win one easy and earlY!!!?

Beckett…the strike zone is in the good zone. The ball zone is in the bad zone.

“BECKKETT”

Think the memo got to Josh late!

Beckett won’t last past the fourth inning. He’s all over the place. More of our bullpen. Why do we have starters in the first place?

Hi All! Let’s go Sox! I’ll be in and out – getting ready to leave for a music festival in the morning with my oldest son and out middle school – I will miss the games this weekend; bummer. :-( But I like how we hung in and won last night!

Buenas noches, amigos! Hope everyone is doing ok.

“BECKKKETT”

Nice inning Beckett! Let’s score some runs!

Beckett looking good. It looks like a run or two will win this one tonight.

Beckett the strike zone is how major league pitchers get strikes. Just a handy tip.

I’ve been trying to post for 10 minutes.. and so it goes..
Way to Go Joshua!!!! Let’s go bats!!!!

Hola Carlos! Doing well since Beckett is doing well!

Beckett the strike zone is how major league pitchers get strikes. Just a handy tip.
Beckett the pitch count decides how much of the bullpen you have to use in the game. I know I know, Brad Penny has been very influential on you. Let’s not go there anymore.

Julia — Becket i doing OK but he’s burning through a lot of pitches quickly. The bullpen needs a big rest.

Dave, I KNOW that BETTER TIMES ARE JUST AROUND THE NEXT BEND!!!

Hola Carlos…hello Julia. Here’s to crushing Tampa Bay and NY (who are unfortunately burning through the competition)

Thanks Ellen. I hope so too!

Buenos Noches Carlos!!! How the heck are You!!!

Here’s to staying in 1st in the AL East for another day!

Garza and Beckett are dealing!

Just keep the Jays and Yanks out of first!!!

Sox look like they’ve been sniffing too much Lugooil. They need a rest.

Speaking of the devil — here comes Lugo!

Could someoone wipe that smirk off of Garza’s face…ugh

I’m doing fine, Ellen, thanks. I’ll be better when we get some hits and runs!

Lugo line out. Lugo make inning over. Go Lugo…now bring back GREEN!!!!

Hey Carlos…if I haven’t formally introduced myself. I’m Dave…I’m insane but they keep me around anyway (LOL)

Dave,

Why do you say your insane? LOL…I need to here this explanation.

Ginny – we’ll do our best to keep the Jays & Yanks out of first. Maybe when I’m in NY this weekend I can bury another shirt by Yankees stadium.

Dave – yeah – Beckett is throwing a lot of pitches, but he at least hasn’t allowed any runs.

Bosoxbrian. You knew me all season and you never knew that (LOL). However, of course I’m not really insane…now excuse me…I’m not done talking to Abraham Lincoln who is the living room hanging out with me!

Julia – That story never gets old!!

bosoxbrian — Abraham Lincoln thinks that Lugo should be impeached.

“BECKKKKKETT”

Dave,

I wouldn’t say your insane…..Just clinically nuts!

2 infield hits and T.B. has a rally here.

Well Dave, it’s always nice to meet people like me. I am a bit “loco” too. But aren’t we all, to some degree?

Dave,

Tell Lincoln to give Lugo a pair of tickets to the theater.

Hey Ginny. Are you done with hockey for this year? The playoffs are just starting to heat up!

Oh man I laughed out loud at that one. Good one Brian. Poor Lugo!

Oh I forgot to mention we just lost game one!

Oh no, not good, Josh. Here we go again…

Dave…A cruel joke for sure.

Longoria just missed one of off Beckett in the 1st inning. Great piece of hitting by Longoria. That kid is scary, he is going to be around for a long time. Excellent hitter and his glove is just as good.

ok – Since my team didn’t come close to postseason play, I’ve been watching everyone play. Hockey isn’t over until the Cup is full of champagne!

Hunter Jones will be the first guy summoned in.

Brian – Get used to Longo. He’s here for the long haul!

I didn’t even know the hockey season started. They still play hockey? Is Gagne’ in net for anyone??? He can’t pitch.

Well said Ginny. It should be really competitive between the Canucks and Blackhawks.. it starts at 6:00 out here on the west coast. I may not have to be following this by then!

The Red Sox bring out the best of the Rays.

Longoria will be around for years and years.

Hey, Ian, hope you had a good 3-day respite.
Josh, that’s what happens when you load the bases. Just BEGGING for a double–er, trouble.

Hey hockey fans…..The Lightning used to call the Trop there home back in the day. That was when they had a girl in net. What were they thinking? LOL….

Who is the long reliever tonight?

Hey, all. I see we’ve dug a hole again that we need to climb out of. Hmmm…
Hey, Ginny, how are you? I understand from a certain source that you recently had an anniversary. Congratulations!

I think the 3rd line of the Bruins is the key for there post-season success. Then again the Hurricanes have quite the 3rd line as well. HA…HA…HA…..LOL…

ok – Is Luango ready for the Blackhawks? They are going to give it to him this series! At least it’s pm for you guys out there! We have to stay up half the night! The Ducks/Sharks series was brutal to watch until 2am…

“BECKKKKKKKETT”

I see Ginny, Julia, Brian, Paul, Dave, and Ellen. Anyone I’ve missed? How are y’all, aside from being down in the score again? Ginny must be happy! ;)
OK, guys, we need some RUNS! LET’S GO!

Greg – Thanks!
Brian – Myriam played what, ONE GAME? The Trop make a better ballpark!

Hey Ginny- I believe he is. He was outstanding against St. Louis and if they play their game, they will do well. I am not sure I could stay up that late to watch hockey! The inning is finally over!!

Ah, yes, Carlos, how are ya? I WAS doing well, until I attempted to log on to this ******* of a site. And then, I saw the score! O Happy Day! :/

4-0 for the Rays. Greg, whatever make you think I’d be happy right now?

RedSoxGal555, are you still here?

Just a hunch, Ginny! ;)

Hey Greg. The score must have been depressing! I don’t have any problem logging on to Brownie Points- just a minute or so and I’m in.

Hang in there, Greg. These boys can come back from anything!

Crazycanuck,

Trop is better when it will be deystroyed. lol

When Ortiz is up, Boston is playing with 2 outs that inning. I have ZERO confidence in him right now.

I’m not having problems logging in either.

Brian – I’ll be happy when the Rays get a new home…if it EVER happens. I just hope they don’t leave the area.

All together now RedSox fans: HEY JOSH!!!! POP YOUR HEAD FROM YOUR BUTT!!! YOU CAN SEE BETTER THAT WAY!!!

BYE BYE JOSH!!! THANKS A TON!!! One problem… We’ve got NO ONE (again)up in the pen

Not good.

Am I wrong for wanting to turn this off???

I can never tell if it is simply MLB.com, or if it is my caputer’s misbehavior, or both. Anyway, it took 2 attempts and several minutes.
I think the Red Sox are having some Log-In problems of their own. LET’S GO, RED SOX!

Canuck19…..

They tried getting something along the water front in downtown St. Pete but the Rays took it off the ballot. Too many people opposed it. The Rays lease at the Trop is for another 10 years or more.

Bay is usally solid out there but he looked lost on that one.

The Rays are ready to play and Boston isn’t. It is just that simple.

I can hardly wait for the hockey game to start!

Just like with Pap, something ain’t right with Josh, either. Physical or mental, he needs to get his head in the game! GO SOX!

The update time is better.. but its still taking a while for some of us I see.
This is Da Ja Vu all over again… Just like last year!! and to whoever said that the Rays have our number.. YOU ARE CORRECT!!!!!!!!

Walked him on 4 pitches. This is painful.

I can’t believe the Sox are losing 6-0. I am not watching the game but what happened to Beckett?

http://metsgo.mlblogs.com/

6-0 Rays.

Ian touched in this thread on what I think will be a headache for the Sox all year, if we do not get it fixed, and FAST (and it was something I foresaw in ST)–if our starters cannot go farther into the games, and still be effective, we will be in a WORLD OF HURT. Our BP will be way too taxed (no matter how effective they are!), and we will pay the price by the end of the season, if not also in the post-season. It is time for ALL our starters to step up and get the JOB DONE! If it weren’t for Wake right now…HMMM…

Ok, so it took Beckett 95 pitches to get through the 4th inning. His ERA for the season is currently 7.07. And so far, Garza has been perfect. Should I go do something else for an hour or so, and then come back and see if it got better?

Who would have thought that Wake would average more innings per start than anyone else??? He’s at 7.25, Beckett (til tonight) is at 6, as is Lester, Masterson is 5.1 and Penny is at 3!!!!

Absolutely Greg. I posted earlier and said that Beckett was not pitching anywhere near what we expect him to do and tonight he is living up to that.

Who would have thought that Wake would average more innings per start than anyone else??? He’s at 7.25, Beckett (til tonight) is at 6, as is Lester, Masterson is 5.1 and Penny is at 3!!!!

Beckett is fooling nobody. Even the outs are loud. John Henry and Tom Werner own the Red Sox, this just in….Matt Garza owns the Red Sox! He smoked them out during the playoffs and this will be his second win against Boston in as many starts.

Who would have thought that when the season started, the rotation would be this bad??? Certainly not me.

Ground Hog Day for Beckett.

Ginny-15 minutes until game time!

15 up and 15 down. Do I have to say anything else?????

Well, at least Garza’s pitch count is too high to think he’ll go the entire game. But so far he’s retired 15 of our guys in a row.

Celtics and Bulls in a close one.

Ray Allen with 32 points on 18 shots. Allen wants to play Orlando and not a game 7 vs Chicago.

Garza might not go the distance but once again he has over-whelmed Boston.

Bay is having some issues out there in left tonight. I wonder if he is having some problems with the lighting out there??? Some players over the years have complained, then again sometimes you just run across some tough plays.

Jones will need to pitch a couple of innings. Saito for 1 inning and have Lugo pitch after that.

“BECKKKKKKKKETT”

Garza is gonna “Rays” the roof tonight. Even if he doesn’t finish the game!

LOL maybe “Boogo” would actually hurt us less pitching than playing SS.

Matt Garza is the Josh Beckett of 2009

I meant 2007

You really think Lugo would find the strike zone, Carlos? :) I think he would have to have a “Lugo Zone” specialized, if he were to pitch!

Zack Greinke isn’t doing too shabby either. He doesn’t have Tampa’s caliber of defense in KC though!

18 up and 18 down!

Garza is good but he isn’t that good.

Look at that 8 strike outs for Garza. Hmmm….I think Ellen may be on to something!

Lugo couldn’t find the strike zone if he had a map. LOL…

Matt Garza is good tonight, and that’s what counts now. Josh seems to be struggling this year again. What’s up with that? He usually seems to do better in odd numbered years…Hope the bullpen is ready for a big year.

Youk and Lowell out… I guess Tito threw the towel?

Lugo needs a picture book to help him!

I’m not that surprised, Carlos. Lowell is still recovering from his hip surgery, and can still use the rest. Youk was shaken up a little last night, so he may be resting that also.

Nice home run…

Probably a good thing for you, Ginny, since Scotty has been a little slow getting on track, also–not unlike Josh. Hmm…

crazy19 —
Just came back from a walk. Looks like I’m not the only one taking walks tonight. Tito should also give Pedroia a rest.
This is without a doubt the most depressing game I have seen all season. I’m happy for Garza. A no-hitter is a no-hitter but I’d rather see the Sox have a win.
Last year it was the bullpen and this year is the starters. Lester threw too many innings last year and he’s looking burned out. Beckett is lost. He’s gone as a pitcher. He’s taking lessons from Bart Colon on how to pitch. Penny is penniless. Dice-K will come back and be proud of going 2 innings and 200 pitches.
Sox need to do something and fast. They have not been the same since Lugo returned.

Jones looks exhausted and who can blame him. He’s hired to burn innings. Not a great job. Why didn’t Lopez get the job. That’s all he does anyway.

Unfortunately, Dave, while LugNuts is no help, either, our problems have been there, even during the winning streak. Outside of bringing in some long relievers, and our starters going deeper, there are only so many times the relievers and the offense will be able to save the starters’ assssssets.

Greg – Seems they both need a good swift kick in the rear to get started!

Dave – What is with the starters? I just don’t get it! Last year when the ‘pen came out to do their thing, it was almost a game over on the spot! This year, the starters have forgotten which sport they are playing. Did the WBC take it out of Dice-K? Boston’s pitching is their lifeline – Pedey and J-Bay cannot win every game on their own!

I firmly believe, Ginny, that the WBC had a DIRECT impact on Dice-K. He was effectively wild last year (OK, lucky is better put!), but this year, he can’t cut it either! I do not hold out hope for him to be effective whenever he is “healthy” and returns. There seems to be something about the Japanese style of baseball (and pitching in particular!) that does not translate well into the MLB game. (I wonder if the reverse is true!…) I can’t put my fingers on what the reason(s) is, but it sure has haunted Dice-K, and other Japanese starters. Who knows?…

No more no no!!! Pedey was safe.. and Does Papi still know how to get pi^^s^ed??

Oh, but Dave, Loopy–er, Lopez–is Theo’s Crown Jewel! (He is Lefty Grove Redux, remember?) We can’t have HIM mop up innings, now, can we? Hmmm…

No doubt at all about that Greg!

Ian, if your blog doesnt move up, I’d ask for an investigation… lol.. 2hrs 27 min and we have 130 posts?? and look at the last thread… over 700?? We had to have moved up! JULIA….. YOU HAVE A BLOG AND TALK TO MARK, HOW DO THEY DETERMINE THE RANKINGS??? I asked Mark, but he didnt answer/

Ellen – has something to do with how many people read it or comment on it. I am confused too…I would think Ian would be near the top of the list most weeks!

I could be wrong, Ellen, and Julia is welcome to correct my thinking on this blogging rankings issue, but I suspect that it has something to do, not just with the number of posts, but also the number of people logged on to do the posting. Since we are a relatively small number of posters, and relatively few newcomers, we don’t move up as much. But that is simply my theory. Mark is welcome to enlighten me, and prove me entirely wrong!

The numbers are usually up in the off season, since a lot of “regular” bloggers take some time off. I just started blogging in February, and I’ve noticed a real difference in the ranking since April arrived. It’s and enigma for sure.

10 strike outs for Garza tonight. Followed by a strike out for Balfour. Think Tito’s had enough yet?

Anyway, I’m out. See y’all!

Lopez should be ashamed of himself. He drops the ball at first base the other night and now gets replaced by a r.f. Lopez has reached an all time low!

Will the Rays go for the extra point or go for the 2 pt. conversion???

Earlier I said Lugo should pitch an inning, I was joking when I said that. I wasn’t expecting Van Every to take the hill in the 8th. Swisher did it when the Yanks were getting spanked. I always think more managers should do that when things get out of hand. Why waste a pitcher when your trailing by 10 or more runs late in the game. Have fun with it—that would be my thinking.

Hey guys…far as I’m concerned Lugo can take Brad Penny’s spot. I’m sure we won’t see a difference in production and Beckett can take a cold shower while Eric Gagne takes over. Finally Lopez can be taken over by Jason Gabbard.
“THAT’S Kason!!!!”
(Sorry Jason)
“Kason!!!!”
(Jason is so sensitive)
“KASON…IT’S KASON…THAT IS OBVIOUS”
Anyway, Mr. Gabbard should take over…happy now Jason!”
(It’s JASON…ERRRR…KASON!!! How hard is it to get my name right!)
Gee…Jason is so sensitive!

Ian,
please let MLB know that no one has been able to post any comments to game summary articles about the Red Sox for the past three days. We have some things to say.

BoSoxFanInFlorida

Why don`t the Red Sox hitters ask the umpires to check
the glove of Garza if there is foreign substances?
At least it may disrupt his swagger and who knows
they may find something since he swirls that ball around
the palm of his glove on every pitch.

What’s wrong with the Sox strating pitching? Beckwett with ERA above 7 and Lester above 5. The Red Sox version of CC and Wang is not what we expect from Beckett and Lester.
Skip Penny’s turn on Sunday.

007….

The Red Sox have to be concerned about the rotation. As of right now they are getting lit up!

Beckett looks like the Beckett of 2006, his first season with Boston. Even the outs were loud and that is never a good sign. Lester has 1 excellent start under his belt, Lester did wear down in the playoffs last year. Wakefield is on a roll out there but that will not last. We all know how that knuckleball goes. Penny…that is another story for another time. Boston has the talent but so far no results from there rotation!

ive been lobbying for a 6 man rotation since lasy yr….we may get it by default soon lol….chalk it up as a bad night…lets hope we go back to hittin 2night……..im curious how long papi is gonna struggle…judge

Remember this is baseball and not the Tour De France, they start 0-0 tonight. Sonnastine owned Boston in September last year. He shut them down at Fenway and in St. Pete. The Sox bring out the best of the Rays. Masterson looked good the other night and I am expecting him to do the same tonight.

Yup…bring on Masterson. So far, Masty and Wake have been the only consistently good starters. Who would have thought….

The Rays are reverse-snake-bit with us right now — they think they can beat us any day, any game. They hold zero fear for us now. I don’t think we are scared of them (or snake-bit ourselves) — but it now seems the only team in the AL East that doesn’t think they can beat us is the Os. Rays and Jays think they have our number (we will see) — and the Yanks are the Yanks. It will be interesting to see how we fair against the Jays this year. It may turn out that we have a tougher time with the Jays and Rays than the Yanks this year.

A comment about coaches —

I have come to the conclusion that Tito is probably the most supportive coach in all of baseball. I marvel at his ability to stand behind and encourage all his players — and that pays huge dividends — that is his genius I believe.

On the other hand, Joe Madden, is the most confident manager in baseball that I can think of. He exudes a quiet and absolute 100% confidence — and I think that is definitely a big part in the transformation of his players. We used to spank these Rays, when 70% of the players were the same players (before Madden). Now Madden has them “knowing” they can beat anyone. I am not sure how to describe it better, but Madden exudes confidence (to put in politely) — quietly expressing we are going to beat you with without obnoxious arrogance.

Both coaching qualities are great, I think I know which one is most effective when they meet head to head…. but we have another season to watch this play out.

If Beckett has problem pitching, let’s deal with the problem. We cannot use the excuse and treat Beckett like an ace. He is not this year so far. He wasn’t in 2008 and 2006. Beckett had an excellent in 2007 who won the WS for the Sox. That’s about it. Beckett had 1 good year for the Sox. Who would have thought Beckett and Penny are the biggest problem as far as I’m concerned. Smoltz’s return may turn out to be a necessity and not a luxury any more.

i can say one thing from playing ball for many yrs…i dint play pro but i pld for 3 post teams when i was in the service..i think the rays are to comfy in the box….a lil chin music is in order…im not sayin head hunt like pedro but a few eye opener pitches are due….believe it makes u think and prevents u from diving in on the ball…also if a hit batter happens…it has a tendancy to change their approach… some frsh arms might be in order for the pen too…i still think masterful is more valuable in the pen with buch,tazawa,bowden and smoltzy commin soon….judge……also papis bat is so slow rt now its pathetic…pls pls tell him to get his front foot down before pitch is 3/4 way to plate….this will speed his hands up….sigh…go soooooooooooooooxxxxxx….judge….buz em buzz em buzz em

BECKETT AND LESTER NOT LOOKING TOO SHARP THIS YEAR SO FAR. HHHMMM !!!!
HATS-ALL-FOLKS.COM

Personally I think the time is coming for Francona too make his most difficult desicion and that is dropping Ortiz from the 3 spot. I doubt Francona ever will because we all know he is very loyal to his vets but I think that time is coming and it is coming very soon! I thought Ortiz was going to bust out of it when he showed some life against the Orioles but that was fools gold. Drew thrived in the 3 hole last June when Ortiz went down. The down side of putting Drew in the 3 hole is he’ll miss his share of games and I believe when it comes to the top part of the lineup, you wants guys that play almost everyday and Drew will not play in more than 115 games.

The biggest issue with this team is starting pitching, we all agree there. Of course there are other subplots going on as well. Boston has a very shrew front office/ownership, they have $$$$$ to spend and they also have prospects that are waiting in the wings that will impact this team this year and also years too follow.

Papi to 6th drew career 300 in the 3rd spot with 79 of his 194 hr. Beckett and lestrer both really struggls out of the stretch so far this year The Sox need to get in a brawl with the rays and beat that swagger out of them Dump penny and Lopez keep Masterson in the rotation when D-K returns and call up Bard

I know this is a very partial crowd to our NESN commentators, but I thought (despite the awful game) that Buck Martinez’s commentary was noticeably better (more informative, better more interesting observations) than Remy’s? Maybe we will have another game or two to judge better. Anyone else have the same opinion?

Loyalty to a player is disloyalty to the team. Last year Maddon had no hestation taking Garza out when the Rays were ahead hundred runs. In Maddon’s infamnous words “it’s not about Garza’s win, it’s about Rays win.” I am not asking Francona to be an ***—-like Maddon. A manager should always put the team’s interest first and most and nothing else.
I don’t know what’s the problem with Beckett and to a lesser degree with Lester. Is it Beckett’s velocity, command, or is it mental or physical? Skip his turn if necessary and let him work out his problem. Give the kids a shot at sp before it is too late.

You guys are ignoring a very important point — being loyal to your players is being LOYAL to your team. Here is why!
.
When Terry Francona lets David Ortiz sit in the 3rd spot, what is the message he is sending to a Pedroia or do a Youk or any young guy coming up — The Red Sox will not dump you at the first sign of trouble. This is not about Ortiz. It’s about how it effects the team. That is why Lowell wanted to stay when he could have moved on and how Theo GETS his players so cheaply. Not only do you get talent but at a lower cost.
.
Now reverse the situation. You ax everyone who isn’t cutting it and what is that message — ‘what’s the point. I’ll be dumped!’ Consider Don Zimmer. He lost 1978 because he clashed with the team and ensured they wouldn’t go anywhere and it worked — but how did that help anyone?
The Sox do make painful choices. Timlin was all but abandoned by the end of the year. Doug Mirabelli got a raw deal but in general the Red Sox tend to be fair and that’s why they get the most out of everyone. That’s why Manny Delcarman is starting to bloom. The Boston market is sadistic. Jason Bay got death threats last year simply for leaving the team to tend to his new baby. Can’t they get a buffer from someone because we don’t. I’ll be the first to admit that Lugo has been a prime example of how I feel about a player that doesn’t produce.
.
Now remember, if you don’t have a contract you have no security but what do Pedroia and Youk do — extend their contract. They know they’ll be respected and not dumped with the next hot prospect comes along.
.
Yes, it’s painful to see the pain we’ve endured but that’s why the players on the Red Sox play the game with huge heart. It’s why Tim Wakefield stuck around. He’s no fool. He knows he’ll be treated fairly.
.

I agree, Andy, that if Beckett has a problem, it needs to be dealt with. I was saying the same thing with Lester at the beginning of the year when he was really getting lit up, and I have the same concern about Beckett. (I am not convinced, either, that Lester is completely on track). Both MAY straighten themselves out (or someone may do it to them!), but until that happens, a 6-man rotation may not be realistic. I am still not convinced that Dice-K will be any less wild than before he was injured, and its hard to believe that Penny will not be shelled again. I do think Buch, Bard, and Bowden need to be called up–they can’t do much worse! The batting order also needs a serious overhaul, including moving Papi out of the 3-spot. This lineup cannot afford empty slots right now, and unfortunately, Papi is exactly that right now–esp. for the 3-slot hitter. If we can’t get it done with the personnel we have, we need to bring up some others.

I also think, Dave, that commitment to players is important. I do not think that any lineup or rotational changes need to be permanent. Papi and Beckett, for example, should not be shipped out on the next rail car. I do think, though, that there are times when a team needs a jolt, and this, arguably, is one of them. I also don’t think that the fact we’ve just come off a winning homestand can allow us to think that there are not problems that need to be addressed. The rotation did not get the job done during the homestand streak, and that can’t afford to be ignored. We need to make sure we are not too full of ourselves (as can happen after the homestand we had), but also not too harsh on ourselves that we play 52-pick-up with the roster. This will indeed be one of those times when Tito will have earned his paycheck if he does this right.

Moving the guy down the lineup is totally different from dumping the guy. If Ortiz is young Lars Anderson, I will buy your argument. Counter argument can be made that loyalty breeds indolence. Where is the incentive for Loopy and Lugo to perform knowing that they will not be dumped. It is a case of loyalty, commitment and perhaps being obstinate on the part of Francona.
Being loyal to a player and being flexible in regard to line up move are not mutually exclusive. I don?t get. Or Francona doesn?t get it.

The problem, Dave, with what you laid out is that this is not “the first sign of trouble” for Papi, or for some others on the roster. I want Papi to rebound, and I want the rotation guys to perform up to their abilities. As I have said before, I believe Papi is not, ability-wise, at the end of the line. He does need to change some things, though, if he is to remain in the 3-spot–and we have not seen it yet. No, I don’t want to drop Papi from the 3-spot, and I don’t want to skip any pitcher’s turn in the rotation. It may need to happen, however, at least in the short-term. The rotation and the lineup can be readjusted back to its original shape if things change. Let’s hope they do.

i agree with what was just posted by chow and dave….the only thing i agree with tito and his style of managin is his loyalty to plrs…u cant ship out a strugglin plr…but,….u can move them in the order to get it goin….the offseason is for deciding if a plr has seen better days…im sure papi is on that list this yr…he will be evaluated in offseason or possibly sooner if he remains the same…it also takes pitchers a few games to get the groove goin…beckett has had flashes….i just think he needs to buzz a few and not let them get comfy in his games…remember tek wasnt callin his game either…this means alot to some pitchers…now of course there is no reason to panic on any of these points…im still very comfident that theo is arranging something that will prob shock most..im expecting 1 if not 2 large deals before we reach mid july…this is a year to make hay and the uppers see it i think…some small market teams have alot of thumpers that may need to be dumped soon…rockies already look bad so i expect some goings on there…i also think milwaukee might part with a couple…gonzo in sd might be had…expensive im sure tho…ie prospects…and texas im sure will part with someone if a good deal is on the table…im also hoping that maybe han ram might be bait for some clubs….can u imagine him in fenway….lawdy….that trade i would do for 2 blue chips….but…..as it is im sure all will be ok if we dont make a deal…..i still would like to see the order swapped some….judge…..oh ya ….my old theory of the 6 man also…but im barking on deaf ears i think….

Hey Guys… I’ll take time to read the bulk of the comments later.. for now though:
We need to have these guys shake off last night as just a bad night.. (really no such this as “just” but…) and get on with the business of winning. No time like the present to stop the Rays from getting the idea that they OWN the RedSox… up until last season, they were canal water.. muck, well they can be right back there again and we can start their journey TONIGHT!!!! Justin Masterson must retain the calm “quiet confidence” that he has exhibited in his earlier stints on the mound. If he does that and keeps his head about him, I think that he’ll do better than fine!!!!
Youk needs to get his “stroke” back… (maybe he has problems with Lugo being on the same field as him.. I know I would…) I think that Lowell was tired and maybe getting pulled early last night will help. LUGO NEEDS TO BE OUT OF THE LINE UP!!! That goes with out saying.. maybe its just me, but no one seems as relaxed when he’s playing… like theyre waiting to have to clean up whatever mess he makes. Boil it all down and it just means they need to be themselves and each one do the job that they obviously know how to do.
Anyway, I’ll be back at game time…. See you then!

You guys made all excellent points. I think..or at least rumor has it…that Lugo likes sky diving. Can any of you guys arrange a sky diving trip for Lugo. I hear those silk parachutes do sometimes tear up and stuff so make sure Lugo is careful.
Love ya all. I wish the Marlin fans would stop those #$34 cowbells and Joe Migrane would go away. The two together is like watching The New York Yankees beat the Red Sox 120 – 9 over and over again.

NEW THREAD…. BOSOX BRIAN YOU HAVE 5 MINUTES TO LEAD OFF!!! YOU WERE OUR LEADOFF GUY LAST YEAR, BRING US LUCK!!!

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