Now that one Jason is back, what becomes of the other?

The catching situation is now finalized. Jason Varitek has agreed to be a $3 million backup for next season. Now, on to some of the other matters of the offseason.

What will it take to keep Jason Bay under the employ of the Boston Red Sox? There have been several reports — though none substantiated — that Boston has made an offer somewhere around four years at $60 million. If that is indeed the case, I’m very encouraged that they can get something done.

If not, Holliday is not a bad alternative. Not at all. But Bay has already proved he can play in Boston while Holliday might need an adjustment period.

What else does Theo Epstein have up his sleeve this winter? I just get the feeling there is going to be a major move or two, but it’s too early to say what. The market needs to play itself out for a while.

48 Comments

Hi gang!
I’ve been away, but better late than never:

Thank you veterans!!!!!!!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!
I’m getting ready to watch the Avs vs. the Blackhawks and the national anthem before the game just gives me a chill every time. I never forget you, vets. Via con Dios!

Greg,
I appreciate the special Veteran’s Day greting as I am sure Garry does too. Hopefully Shakenbake finds himself safe today. I was lucky enough to make it through 26 years of service in the USAF withouit a scratch and count my lucky stars that we have brave young men and women out there who are watching our backs for us while we go about our daily business. Not to forget the older folks in the Guard and Reserves who left their civilian jobs to keep the US free and prosperous. God bless all the troops….young and old, Reservists /Guard and Active Duty. My best friend just deployed to Iraq today so I may be a bit sentimental today….go get ‘em Rick. Ian…I hope you are right….I am ready for Theo to make a couple of big moves this off-season. I just hope Matsui isn’t one of them….One of the biggest moves the Sox can make is to sign Bay. Not sure what Holliday would do in Fenway but I already KNOW what Bay can do. I am good with that. Go Red Sox!!!!!

Happy Veteran’s Day everyone!! The sun was shining and the weather was perfect, and hey- Jason Varitek is coming back!! Rumor also has it that the Sox are interested in signing Hideki Matsui. Just saw it on TV now. It’s just a rumor, but maybe if the Sox do sign him, he can fill in the DH spot. Matsui is looking for a deal worth 8 mil. Hope the Sox can get Jason Bay though!!
-Holly
http://irishsoxkid19.mlblogs.com

I forgot one extremely important thing…..the civilians who were not in the military back in the day and are not in the military now but make a direct contribution to the nation’s mighty military. I worked for a couple civilians when I was active duty and they were by my side at all times. The civilians who worked in the factories during WWII…where wouuld we be without them? The women who flew the war-planes overseas to awaiting combat pilots. Waht a great country….every one chipping in to keep this country free….Go USA….Go Red Sox!!!

Good morning my friends, just my 2 cents and we’ll see what we’ll see…I never thought I’d turn down Holliday but I too would rather JBay, he’s proven he can take the Fenway pressure… FA shortstops??? I’m not real comfortable going into the season with Lowrie as I’m sure many aren’t… What price for Scutaro and is he just another bandaid? I say re-negotiate with Gonzalez if you’re looking for a 1 yr fix why wouldn’t you bring him back? Jed Hoyer said he doesnt believe the Sox will bebig offseason players… Hmmm if he went to the Theo School of OMG what were you Thinking, I’m sure we can expect the opposite… Allow me also to extend to all the service men and women my sincere Thanks…. Sorry I’m a day late…Hope to hear from you all Tom

Welcome back Jason!!!

I think $60 mill for 4 years is very fair, I hope J-Bay and his agent agree. As for FA shortstops, the pickings are slim, with Orlando Cabrera, A-Gon, Miguel Tejada and Marco Scutaro apparently being the most interesting available. I do think each one of those is an improvement compared to Lowrie, but not so much as to justify a big money deal (like Lugo’s). I also think if Lowrie stays healthy, he can grow into a very solid starting SS, but that’s a pretty big ‘if’. Does anybody see a way we could get Hanley Ramirez? He did start his career with the Red Sox, but we had to trade him to get Beckett. What would it take to get him ‘back’?

I think we’d have to give up way too much for Hanley. He just finished his first year of a six-year contract. He’s going to get paid $7 mill for 2010, which is a bargain for a bat like his. I don’t see the Marlins letting him go until maybe 2012, when he’ll be getting paid $15 milll.

Carlos: On another thread, I said I (my opinion), I wouldnt want him back in the organization. He has become one of the head case prima donna’s. if someone doesnt stop his crap soon, he’ll be another Zazu… This time it will be “HanRam being HanRam”… (this is my very humble opinion)

Welcome back Jason,

Theo’s plan obviously was to cut is salary way down and he achieved that I suppose. Nick Green is gone and I wish him well. I always liked the guy and I’m sorry but I still believe he could have been a decent shortstop with practice and time (I can’t explain it but I always felt he had talent).
Now everyone seems to want Bay back but Theo is obviously trying to have him sweat it out. This all depends on the Yankees this year. No talks are settled but I seriously doubt the Yanks will give up Matsui at any cost. He’ll stay.
Theo has made some ‘interesting’ moves and I hope he’s learned from them. He seems to have a one track mind of getting hitting on the field. Lugo was that hope as was Drew. I can understand that but players can give a lot more than a bat with solid defence and club presence but that doesn’t show up on spreadsheets.

The club held an option for Tek (5 million) Tek held a players option of 3 million… makes sense to me from both points of view.

Last year the Sox didn’t do well with finding free agents or trading during the off season. We knew then we needed help with the catching, shortstop and possibly an outfield position and we were iffy with one or two starters. What Theo did didn’t work. It wasn’t until later that we finally got one really solid player. The Yankees went out and got two starters and two starting field players and were the class of baseball at the end of the season. They will be out in the market this year as well so Theo cannot expect to makeup ground without being aggressive.
We still need help with a defensive catcher that can hit, a shortstop and I believe at least one outfielder. We also could use another first rate starter. Does anyone really believe Wakefield can last another entire season. Keeping Jason Bay is critical to the team.
The other issue that cropped up during the season was in the designated hitter position. Ortiz has shown a marked decline in ability and while he improved toward the end of the season, it clearly showed what weakness in that position means.

Hi All!! Congrats to Jason Bay! He won a Silver Slugger Award!!

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20091112&content_id=7657830&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Now Theo – can we resign him NOW!!!

Morning all! The local media is reporting this morning that the Red Sox have made a 4 year, $60 million offer to Jason Bay. Let’s hope he takes it!

Julia,
Hey you. Miss hearing from you. You and Ellen are keeping this board alive and its dead right now.
I seriously doubt Jason will take it. He, like many athletes want the most bang for the buck. Jason knows that he will be getting that value. I know he wants to go to the Yankees (money, money) and will wait till the Yanks decide on a LF. He will then persue them and they will give him what he wants…IF they fail to sign Daemon and so forth. We’ll see.
Honestly it depends on Daemon. If he signs, Jason will have no choice. If he does not sign, Jason heads to New York. We’ll see.
Either way it will work out but I guarantee that he will turn down the offer. You can bet on it.

Dave.. Maybe you know something that I dont, but I dont get that feeling at all regarding Bay. He doesnt seem to me the “flash and cash ” kind of guy. I think that he will weigh his options, which any of us would do.. But I don’t think that he will pursue the Yankees… I think that he stays with the Sox… It just seems like he is comfortable in Boston and Boston is comfortable AND happy with his production…
He is the only RedSox that brought any hardware home (position players) so far…….. He is the only Silver Slugger on the Sox.

Hey Gang! Thanks for the Veterans’ Day sentiments. I served over 30 years in the Navy, but I have to tell you, I loved every day of it. There were deployments and some tough times, but I was privileged to work with some of the finest people in the world. My career was truly blessed, and like Craig, I was very fortunate to make it through in one piece. There are so many who don’t, and some who don’t make it through at all. Most people in the military are very selfless. They neither want nor expect recognition for what they do. Still, it’s nice to know when you’re bouncing around out in the middle of the ocean, or in some luxury camp grounds in middle of a freaking desert somewhere, that people know your reason for being there is a noble one. The soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen have no political ambitions or alterior motives. They do what they do to serve in the name of freedom…… period! Thank God for all of them……..now on to baseball.

Priority #1, the Sox need a left fielder, whether it be Bay, or Holliday. Bay is probably the better fit, and will likely come cheaper. He’s a known commodity in the clubhouse, which for this club, I think is very important. Priority #2 is a shortstop. I do not have a lot of faith in the durability of Jed Lowery. I think he’s a good ball player, but so far, he hasn’t stood up well against the grind of the season. Gonzo is a great option. He’s still pretty young, a slick fielder, and a little more offense than most give him credit for. No need to spend huge dollars there.

I was pretty tough on David Ortiz all year. I’m not sure he’s got anything left, but given the choice between him and Matsui, I think I’m giving Papi another shot. I really believe if he uses the whole park and gives up on pulling everything he can hit .300 again. I don’t know that we’ll see 40 home runs, but with the people hitting in front of him, he could certainly knock in over 100 runs. Also, he is a pure DH, which is something you don’t find everywhere. He doesn’t need or want a lot of other playing time. I think that’s a plus. I would not be inclined to spend huge dollars on another bat at this point.

Finally, stay out of the Halladay sweepstakes. After the trading deadline, he wasn’t so good. He’s getting up there in age and has a billion innings behind him. The question becomes, “How much has he got left?”. Beckett, Lester and Buchholz anchor the front of the rotation and anything you get from Dice-K will be a plus. Wake will give you 25-30 good starts if he can stay healthy. I’ve said before, and I still contend that they ought to switch Delcarmen to a starting role. He’s got three good pitches and I think mentally might be better suited to be a starter. Of course, if none of that works out, I’ve been working out real hard this off season and the Sox could pick up my option for $8.50 an hour.

Ellen,
I REALLY hope you’re right but remember Johnny Damon. The clue to me was when he said he wanted to ‘weigh his options’. Again, I hope I’m wrong.
SOx are talking to John Lackey. I just can’t help myself!
.
Julio Lugo, Zazu and Looney Lackey are sitting in a tree house throwing broken glass at the ground.
“I like broken glass. It makes me be powerful, “snapped John Lackey.
“Zazu signed another deal…now what drug of choice do I pick this year!”
“Hey…what’s 2 + 2. Lugo always forget!”
A pause.
“#$#$ Red Sox are talking to my agent. They want Lackey. Ha…they better have fresh pullups like on LA and I HATE cold weather. Oh crap…I’m whinning again.”
“You need Boras for an agent. He’ll get you a deal that will give you billions!”
“Hey Lugo getting paid without doin’ nothing. Love Theo Epstein.”

Ellen,
I REALLY hope you’re right but remember Johnny Damon. The clue to me was when he said he wanted to ‘weigh his options’. Again, I hope I’m wrong.
SOx are talking to John Lackey. I just can’t help myself!
.
Julio Lugo, Zazu and Looney Lackey are sitting in a tree house throwing broken glass at the ground.
“I like broken glass. It makes me be powerful, “snapped John Lackey.
“Zazu signed another deal…now what drug of choice do I pick this year!”
“Hey…what’s 2 + 2. Lugo always forget!”
A pause.
“#$#$ Red Sox are talking to my agent. They want Lackey. Ha…they better have fresh pullups like on LA and I HATE cold weather. Oh crap…I’m whinning again.”
“You need Boras for an agent. He’ll get you a deal that will give you billions!”
“Hey Lugo getting paid without doin’ nothing. Love Theo Epstein.”
“Hey guys, “snapped Gagme. “Stop throwing glass at me!”
“HA HA, “roared Lacky. “LOOSER…oh I crapped my pants!”
Zazu laughed and then went down.

Hi Dave! I’m trying! My Dad is still in rehab so life has been a little crazy – we are hoping that maybe just one more week and then he will be home.

On to Red Sox news…http://vyous.com/sports//mlb_fan/2009/11/13/red-sox-meet-with-lackeys-agent-in-chicago

Theo met with Lackey’s agent…interesting…

Dave, we’ll see about J-Bay. A counter-example to Damon on “weighing his options” is Mike Lowell, after 07. Lowell used almost exactly the same wording as a FA, then ultimately signed with us. I look at Bay’s situation somewhat like Lowell’s. We’ll see, though! GO SOX!

Good to hear from you again, Garry. I hope we do re-sign A-Gonz. Lowrie has not sold me, either, and we are not likely to get another SS any less expensively.I’d be just as I hope we get it done relatively quickly. I’d be just as happy, though, if Lowell becomes the DH.

Garry’s back on board, all is well.

Personally, I’d like to see a run-producing right fielder who can play every day and be fairly consistent at the plate. I know, I know, JD has come up big from time to time; but wouldn’t it be nice to have a dependable bat in RF? Just sayin’.

I couldn’t agree more, Arnie! I’d like to see a more dependable RF also. However, I think Drew’s contract is likely to tie our hands as far as RF options go. Hmmm!…

Yea, Greg, that’s sad about JD’s contract.

Dave!!! If Lackey signs with the Sox he can be your new Lugo! Everyone needs a comic muse . Julio Lackey……. has a nice ring to it.
I’m looking forward to the Julio Lackey Stories already!

Arnie, I feel the same way about JD, but who is going to take him off our hands at 17 miilion?? But they do have Hermida now, maybe (notice that we use that word a lot in terms of the Sox!! lol), he’ll break out and step into an every day right fielder.

Arnie – I have to agree with Ellen & Greg – I’m not sure anyone would take Drew. I have some reservations about Hermida – I hope a change of scenery is all that he needed to become productive.

Hey everyone,
Where is everyone. Come now, let’s talk.
Sad article about Jason’s resigning in the Boston Globe. They perceive it as Jason Varitek forcing the issue and putting a very uncomfortable position on the Red Sox. In fairness the Globe pointed out Varitek’s 3.22 ERA vs. V_Mart’s 5.22 ERA.
Its obvious that Jason is dedicated to the Red Sox and hopefully he’ll be an influence on V_Mart making him a better catcher. Ya V_Mart can swing a bat and is a great position player but he’s no Varitek behind the plate. Then again age has not been kind to Varitek’s abilities behind the plate. He his throwing arm and reflexes are greatly diminished. It’s really sad. We want to see these players in their prime but sometimes its so hard to give it up. Will Varitek become Beckett’s personal catcher. Josh has been quite persistent on using Varitek behind the plate. That says something.
Dave…

Dave.. They shouldnt feel too badly for the RedSox.. Dont think they didnt kow last year when they re-signed him and gave him a players option that he would excercise it. They got a bargain for a back up catcher.

I forgot to add “with Teks skills”…

Ellen, you are right as always. Good point. It took a LOT of guts for Jason to fall into that position.

Ellen, you are right as always. Good point. It took a LOT of guts for Jason to fall into that position.

Where are ya all?
Wow, it’s never been this dead in a while. I’m lonely out here. Come on guys…say hey!

Hi Dave.. I’m at the office and you looked kind of scared on here by yourself.. lol.. it sounded like something out of one of those cheesy scary movies like” The town that dreaded sundown”….
Anyway, Weve had applicants all day.. so I’ve been smiling and wiping down everything with disinfectant wipes… Lots of colds out there and since they made me part time again.. If I’m out, there are no sick days.
I have assigned myself to MLBTRADERUMORS as my daily thing… It stays up on my computer here all day and I just check it from time to time. I’ll keep you all posted.
Back later, an applicant just came in, coughing……

Hi All! I am BUMMED by this if it is true:

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/red_sox/index.php/2009/11/16/report-red-sox-denied-in-bid-to-hold-2012-all-star-game/

How can they NOT give the All-Star game to the Red Sox on 2012 for the 100th Anniversary of Fenway Park!! UGH!!!

Julia,
I guess we’ll have to settle for a 2012 world series win (LOL)
Ellen,
Thanks for checking in. Hope all is well with you. Remember disinfectant wipes kill bacteria but viruses are another issue. Actually viruses are really interesting. A peice of DNA code without technically being a life form. That’s of course why they are so hard to kill — they are already dead.
Dave…

I think it stinks too.. KANSAS CITY??? Whoop-dee-doo…
Lots of stadiums have undergone renovations.. But how many teams celebrate a 100th anniversary in the stadium.. Lets see…. Cubs… (Did the Yankees hit 100 in old YS?? I dont think so because it was the house that the ex REDSOX player built and he went over in what year.. I dont know??) and the RedSox…. ANOTHER WONDERFULLY SENSICAL MOVE BY SELIG.. You know, he’s the guy who would rather end the games a little earlier than to get the calls right with instant replay……. Like the beer commercial says…

“BRILLIANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

(translations provided)
Hi,
I’m Bud Selig and I accused have been of not intelligent making because holes drilled in mine head of mine. Talking for me hard is because words all those get order of out and lost I get. Wow sentences hard make to.
(Bud Selig can’t talk due to holes in head)
Now Fenway Park onto. I one for don’t park know of it named Fenway Park so that’s why it chosen wasn’t for 2012 and Kansas City me bribed and wrong what’s with that!
(they bribed me)
Julia, don’t now please upset be. Time over forget like you’ll everyone with baseball did bats kill people or that steroids.
(you’ll forget about it Julia like everyone did with steroids or baseball bats that kill)
Now next order my baseball business parks shaped large donuts like with holes.
(he wants baseball parks to be shaped like donuts and the playing area in the middle.)
By good
(good bye)

good one Dave.. Only that REALLY makes him sound like he makes sense..
See y’all tomorrow (Unless >traderumors has something hot tonight).. Bye bye!!!

ps.. before I go..
Does anyone (JULIA) know how to start a petition that we can forward to the commissioners office?? I’ll put it on every baseball site I can find, the Boston Globe etc.. Maybe WE can get this done. Its not like the commissioners office hasnt changed their “mind” before…. Come on guys we need to get this done!!!!!!
this is the home page for the committee for

ALLSTAR GAME AT FENWAY 2012!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3.22 ERA I dont believe that stat. They must mean 4.22, no way it was 2 runs a game difference. That has to be a typo.

That 3.22 is a misleading stat. Go to Fangraphs and you can check out the Teams ERA, plus the pitchers and their ERA, and who caught who.
For instance in Sept and Oct. Wakefield had a 8.96 ERA, who V-Mart caught, and Lester who majority of times Varitek caught had a 2.52 ERA.
This is a bogus stat.
Have a good day.

Did I miss something?? What stat??

Ellen,
I’m with you on the fight. Fenway Park belongs in the spotlight in 2012.
Ellen,
I believe the stat was Varitek’s ERA, or at least the ERA produced on average when he is behind the plate, vs V_MART which has a much higher ERA…albeit Clay B. seems to do better with V_MART.

Dave…

I think the the big move you’re indicating my come between the Red sox and the Padres. I think with Padres GM Jed Hoyer having been in the Red sox organization for 4 years and knowing how deep our farm system is will get a deal done that will land Adrian Gonzalez to the Red sox. This would mean Lowell is out by putting Youk at 3rd.

Ellen, 9tedw was referring to the Globe’s stats (which Dave cited in an above post) which compared Tek’s vs. V-Mart’s “Catcher’s ERA” (ERA of pitchers when a certain catcher is their battery-mate). Tek’s was 3.22, V-Mart’s was 5.22. 9tedw was finding out who was pitching each time when V-Mart and Tek accumulated those stats.
Splinter0534, Lowell may be out at 3B (we’ve been postulating that on here for a while now, so that would not be a surprise), but that does not mean he’s out of the line-up, automatically. It depends on what Theo and Tito do with the DH position. I’d prefer to have Lowell DH nowadays, compared to Papi.

Dave, I hope you are doing well, even if the board has been slow lately. We’ll be back pretty regularly soon enough! I hope Naomi and Avi are doing well with their schoolwork! Take care. GO SOX!

splendid: It wouldnt neccesarily put Mikey out.. (financially it would be smart to lose one bat if AGON is acquired) They could use him to spell third basemen and also he could be platooned with Papi, you know a lefty/righty DH combo. Ive been using the Hoyer equation since he left.. It only makes sense that he would make a trade with the Sox….

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