Back in first

Solid poitching, a balanced lineup and talented depth are reasons why the Sox are legitimate contenders and can withstand injuries. It's good to see Drew producing runs. Everyone seems to be contributing except for Julio Lugo. Pedroia is in a slump, but it's a matter of time before he starts hitting again.

I'm excited about the Celtics-Lakers series. Everyone seems to think that the Lakers will win in six. It's important that the Celtics to win the first two games in Boston to gain momentum. Beat, LA! Beat, LA!

Jeff
http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

Gsm,

You are correct when you say our pals Magrane and Staats put me asleep,lol. I would never let 2 dumbells like that kill me though,lol.

Kudo's to the Red Sox for pushing up the game tonight to 6:05, an hour early. To accomodate everyone for the basketball game tonight.

E.S.P.N. Classic playing some old school N.B.A. Finals of Lakers vs Celtics. Those were great to watch then and they are just as good now to watch. Anytime they showed Pat Riley I cringed!!!! Same thing will happen tonight when they show Phil Jackson, lol.

It should be a great series with big ratings. The Celtics have the better team overall but the Lakers have the best player on the planet on there team. I think the series will go at least 6 if not 7. Celtics winning of course. Does this long layoff favor anyone? Celtics have played 20 games in the playoffs so I think the layoff will only help them. One matchup I am looking forward to watching is Rondo vs Fisher. The youngster vs the seasoned vet.

Ian -- maybe a little "knock-on-wood" comment can help when you claim that TB "can't win a game in Fenway" with one more game left in this series, and Shields pitching tonight, and maybe Coco out again (just when he was getting hot).

Also, whether or not winning at Fenway (yet) gives evidence whether TB may have the makeup for a post season run may sound a bit smug (doesn't it) -- when the SOX are 0-3 at the Tropicana Field this year themselves.

While I agree with this sentiment (and suspect it to be true), we really don't have the stats yet to back it up -- until after tonight (for one) and then not until our next trip back to the Tropicana Field.

Curiously, I think the Rays actually are my number two team this year -- if for any reason the SOX don't make to the WS this year (knock on wood :) ), then the next best team I can think of, would be the Rays -- you have to admit, it would be a great story, and a whole lot better than Hank parading around like a goon, bragging and gloating....

Dgneubert,

I would disagree with you about the second best team. I think the Angels are. So far they are the only team to go into Fenway and win a series. They have pitching depth and a all around solid lineup. Hunter has helped and Kochman has come on this year. Of course they have Vlad as well. Angels lineup is a little better this year than last year. What seems to help Boston against Anaheim is the struggles of Lackey at Fenway. The season is very long as we all know but those are my 2 top teams in the A.L. and I assume most would agree. Alot of baseball to be played. The Central is up for grabs. I think the Tribe will take that division but then again I didn't think Cleveland would be under .500 in early June. I thought they would win 92 to 95 games. Cleveland needs another bat, perhaps Kenny Lofton will play in Cleveland again, lol. Now that would be very funny if he returned.

bosoxbrian: I just meant sentimentally the TB is my number two team, admittedly because I always route for any team that has a payroll that rebukes the excessive salaries in professional sports today.

I hadn't really thought about what I think the eventual ranking will turn out to be, can't really argue with your assessment on that -- sounds like you think Toronto will not get is collective head together -- and of all years in where I might be tempted to think the Yanks will stay on the mat, it might be this year, they look pretty sorry -- and since it is not due to injuries, it looks promising to stay that way.

Since some of you appear to have played some more serious baseball than I have, and since Lugo finally connected to drive a ball deep last night (although still an out) .... and without harping on the guy even more.... here is my question about his hitting draught:

how can anyone take 2.5 months to hit a ball deep (I am sure there have been one or two more, but not many). It seems to me that (1) he obviously has to be habitually swinging on top of the ball to hit 99.9% grounders, (2) and not yet swinging with full force, to get so many weak hits (as if the hitting coach was telling him to concentrate on your swing first, then go for power second) and since he has not yet straighten out his swing yet, so we haven't seen the power yet.

It seems to me that this pattern seems so painfully obvious, it should be correctable. Again, not to be Lugo bashing, I don't understand how a hitting problem could persist for so long. He has the physique and body to react quickly enough, why can't someone make an adjustment that reaches him, where he lowers his contact point an eighth of inch, and delivers the slightest lift to his swing.

What are the techniques to addressing this? Is it 100% individual? Is there a case in MLB where a problem like this goes unresolved for so long? or are we just spoiled? Do other teams have 2 or 3 players that bat so poorly over multiple seasons, and we just don't realize how difficult it is to hit ML pitching? Cause I really believe (as hilarious as this sounds) that I could do a better job of hitting.

Dgneubert,

I thought when the season started Toronto was going to finish in 2nd. There pitching is outstanding!!! They need to get another bat. Yankees have alot of issues going on. This just in, never count the Yankees. Look no further than last season. That being said, I think the Yankees will miss the playoffs this year. If the Yankees were in the A.L. Central, they would probably win the division. 90 wins will win the Central for sure. Probably more like 87 or so will take the Central.

I am pulling for the Rays as well. I think them doing this good has been great for baseball. The Rays are doing it right. They have built themselves a solid farm system and they have the #1 pick in the draft today. I think Baseball Of America voted there farm system #1 in baseball. Props to the Rays and there front office. They also have done a great job with locking up there young talent. Shields ( who pitches tonight ) Kazmir ( Pitcher of the Month in May ) Longoria and Pena. They also have last year's #1 pick David Price ready to join the team sometime this year. That kid is going to be real good. They also need to lock up Crawford and Upton, perhaps in the winter. That being said, I hope Boston sweeps them tonight!!! 2 wins in Boston tonight, that is what I want!!!

Hey, BosoxBrian:

Here I go, agreeing with you again. I'd also like nothing more than 2 wins in Beantown tonight. Is there any question about how much Beckett hurt himself when he slipped during the game last evening? The Sox website has not yet posted the probable pitching match-up for 5 games from now, which should be Beckett's next start. I agree with all of the writers that the Sox are showing incredible depth, and I tend to agree with you that they should navigate through the month of June quite well. I had hoped that they would wind up 20 games over .500 by the end of June, but now think that 15 games over may be more realistic. However, if Beckett sustains another injury putting him down for awhile, well even the Sox depth has its limits!!!

Here's my conflicting choice for next week-end (not this coming week-end). It sounds as though my Cincinnati in-laws have wangled tix to the Sox-Reds game Saturday, 4 1/2 hours away from me without having to buy untold tix to other Reds games. Also, it looks as though Michael Bowden will be pitching that same day for the Portland Seadogs against Cleveland's AA Aeros in Akron, which is under an hour away. I know as a loyal RSN member I should be traveling to see the big club, but I wouldn't mind the short trip, the intimate confines and the reduced price of minor league ball, not to mention getting a peak at the next pitcher in the pipeline. What is a fan to do?!?!?!?!

Dbenjamin,

You also forgot about our wonderful low gas prices,lol.

Go to Cinn. There first trip there since 1975. Watch about 6 H.R.'s that day. The Great Home Run Ball Park, lol.....Boston visits 3 of those bandboxes in June. Cinn, Philly and Houston. Beckett homered in Philly back in 2006. Then again I think Okajima could as well,lol.

Stop agreeing with me. U.S.C. 27 Ohio State 23, no agreement there, LOL.........

Jeff, to answer your question from the previous thread, Rays games on ESPN and on the MLB Extra Innings package are blacked out. They are even blacked out up here in Jacksonville. The same is true for the Marlins games. If you want to watch the Rays in Florida, you have to watch their telecast and put up with Migrane and Staats. Ugh!

I agree with Brian and no question the Angels have a solid team that is a threat to win the whole thing. I could be wrong, but I see the Rays fading over the next few weeks as they visit some of the tougher venues in the AL. They have some good starting pitching, but their bullpen and offense are questionable. Carlos Pena is on the 15 Day DL, but he's gone for a month. Can B.J. Upton throw the ball or what? Too bad he's not so smart. He'll wind up overthrowing cutoff men and giving up bases. He will hurt them more than he helps throwing the ball around like that.

Brian, I like the Celtics too. I think you're right about the rest helping them. They've played a lot of games and the time off will certainly help those weary old bones. With the schedule they played, I am really surprised at how fresh they were for the final couple with Detroit. They should be in good shape coming into the finals. I think boards, defense and foul shooting will be the keys for the Celtics. Garnett has to be aggressive down low and Pierce needs to drive the lanes. Both of those things will put them at the line. Kobe will get his 30, so they need to keep the lid on the rest. It should be a fun series to watch.

Gsm,

I agree with you about Kobe getting his 30. I want him to earn every point he gets. Also I would like too see him get his 30 but take about 35 shots. You are correct when you say Garnett has to be aggressive down low. I don't think anyone on L.A. can stop him in the paint, other than himself. I expect Allen to be Ray Allen in this series. This is a type of series that fits him just fine. Boston is the better defensive team, no doubt. That is my reason for picking the Celtics. Beat L.A. Beat L.A. Beat L.A. I can't wait to here that tonight!!!! I'm pumped, put me in Doc, lol..........

That ball was absolutely crushed by Ramirez. He looked like Tiger Woods. A great pitch thrown by Shields, most hitters wouldn't have made contact but Ramirez isn't most hitters.

I think Shields threw at Pedroia. It certainly cost him. I think Tampa Bay made a poor descion to throw at Pedroia. They should have waited another time. They play each other another 9 times, alot of time to throw at someone.

We knew it was going to happen sometime.
Chris Carter makes his debut in the weirdest of things

Ladies and Gentlemen........"Are you ready to RUMBLE?" In this corner, we have "Coco I'm gonna get you sucka, Crisp" and in this corner we have "James, man I'm glad I didn't crush my knuckles on Coco's head, Shields". What a nice move by Crisp to avoid the haymaker!!!! If Shields had connected with that punch on Crisp's noggan, all his fingers and knuckles would have been heading in different directions. He is so lucky. Of course Migrane has nothing to say about that.

These guys Migrane and Staats are such idiots. They are all over Hale for taking down Shields, but have nothing to say about Gomes piling on Crisp with a bunch of cheap shots. Shields comes out and hits Pedroia then hits Crisp. What was he expcecting?

I think Crisp would have been better served by just taking a couple of steps toward Shields and giving him a ration of crap and heading to first base. He might miss a few games over this, and it's not worth it.

I wrote earlier the Rays should have waited until another time they play each other. I guess they weren't patient. I think the Rays showed alot of inexperience there. There best pitcher was going and wouldn't you want to win a game in Boston? Why waste your best pitcher, dumb, dumb!!!

Gomes, Navarro showed there maturity level. Those two went out there to fight!!! I think they should get suspened and fined heavily!!! Obviously Shields and Crisp will get suspended as well. I wonder if DeMarlo Hale will get suspended or fined? He took down Shields pretty good. Hale should be playing for the Patriots. A great takedown of Shields, I think Hale was out of line there.

The Rays thinking going into tonight's game should have been let's salvage a game in Boston. Obviously they were thinking we need to settle something here. Not good.

As Redsoxfan015 said, a weird way to make your big league debut. I haven't seen a fight like that in a longggggg time. I hope the Celtics come out ready like these 2 teams, lol.

I gotta give Shields credit though, he didn't throw at Coco's head. There something to be said for that.

Pedroia is the Sox second baseman. Iwamura is the Rays 2nd baseman. No doubt in my mind that the throw at Pedroia was intentional to respond to CoCo's slide at Iwamura last night. But at least CoCo acknowledged it to be in response to what the Rays SS did to him earlier in the game. I'm glad that CoCo didn't just take it, and took on Shields, getting them both thrown out. I think its "rough justice" that both Pedroia in the 1st and CoCo's replacement runner in the 2nd scored. What's more important Rays -- retribution or winning ballgames?

Now let's see if Jon L can get the focus back on winning this game and sweeping out the Rays. What a great start to June -- this is going to be a great Red Sox baseball month!!!!!!

Gsm,

Your right about Staats and Migrane. I think Gomes was the weakest one out there. Bob Watson should come down really hard on him. When you go out there, go out there to break up a fight, don't be a willing participant. Shame on you Gomes and Navarro.

Shields stood up for his team-mate. I like that. Just like Beckett would as well and others. Also kudos to Shields, he threw at Crisp's leg and not his head. I wonder if the legend Joba Chamberlain saw that?

You're right dbenjamin. A hit batsman is a base runner which why as a pitcher I never wanted to intentionally hit a batter. In the long run, those kinds of things can cost you runs and games. I might think about it with two outs and nobody on, but a leadoff hitter? That's more stupid than anything else.

I have no problems standing up for a team mate. However, a look at the situation is always warranted. At some point, Crisp may have come up with two outs, or with a lop sided score where the baserunner doesn't make a real difference. It also may not have looked so obvious. In the absence of Crisp, you nail someone else when the situation is right.

Carl Crawford was today's cheap-shot artist. What a chump. Navarro is holding Coco down and that piece of !@$# jumps in and throws low blows that couldn't be returned. My son and his UFC crew are out in the backyard now pretending to be Crawford and Crisp. Wonder who'll get the worst of that bout?

The part of this I don't understand is why did the Rays go into tonight's game and think we need to settle something? There entire thought process going into the game was throwing at a couple of guys. Pedroia and Crisp. I don't understand that thinking at all. If this was the last time they were playing each other, I would say go ahead and do what you think you have to do. Obviously this isn't the last time they play each other. Sox and Rays always something going on with them. New players involved, that is the only difference. Alot of incidents between these two teams over the last 7 years or so.

Crisp absolutely should have just gone to first -- and he really shouldn't have complained last night. BUT . . . those cheapshots by Gomes, Crawford and Iwamura (yeah Iwa, my Tivo caught those shots), while Navarro held Crisp down absolutely need to be answered with some high chin music. I know how serious that is, but those were some of the most terrible cheap shots I've ever seen.

-Dan
http://fansonthefield.mlblogs.com

The Red Sox outfield is getting ugly.

What's this injury delay -- who's injured?

Ellsbury was taken out after making a diving catch. He hurt his wrist which turned under on the catch.

I agree with you gsm about the Sox o.f. Youk in r.f., oh no!!!

I hope Lester can get out of this jam. Back to the game now.

Can someone tell me why, in the 4th inning, the Rays pinch hit for Johnny Gomes, a righthanded hitter, against left handed Jon L, with a left hander -- Cliff Floyd? I don't understand the strategy there?

Lester with a big K of Floyd. Great job by Lester, gets out of it without given up a run. Let's go Sox, get a couple of runs here and get this game out of reach.

Dbenjamin,

Gomes was ejected for acting like a PUNK!!!! Floyd is now in Gomes' spot.

Maybe Gomes got ejected -- he should have been. As far as Narvaro and Hale taking down both Shields and Crisp -- my first thought was it looked like their only intention was to pin them so no more fighting could take place -- it was Gomes (and others, maybe Crawford) who were throwing punches.

I don't get this whole mentality -- Crisp really started this all, my losing it -- he could have walked away a bigger man. I don't get this 5th grade, you-did-it-to-me so .will-do-it-to-you mentality -- childish, and usually costly.

If I were a manager, I would bench a guy after his league suspension to send a message, I don't want my players doing this. I know managers supposedly give the order to hit a batter. But when does it prove anything, or get anywhere, just risks another player or two, another suspension of two, or sometime, somebody really is going to get hurt, and then everyone can theorize forever about this policy and why its been tolerated for so long.

Great explanation of the Gomes situation Brian! LOL!!!!

Nice job by Lester to get out of the last inning. He really stayed focused. He's getting better.

You gotta hope Ellsbury's wrist is OK. If it's sore today, and there's nothing really wrong, it's going to be worse for the next few days. I could see him missing a week if everything is OK.

Carter has his first hit. Congrats to him

Upton is a gazelle out there. He has such long strides, he reminds me of Devon White out there. He makes it look so easy. I don't think I have ever seen more talented brothers than the Uptons. Amazing athletes!!!!

Brian, do you remember Paul Blair? He was the best I ever saw.

Migrane was beside himself with that walk to Drew. He was dumbfounded (as usual). He didn't know what to say. I was LMAO.

Gsm,

I barely remember Blair with the Yankees. My older brother has always said he was unreal out there. Anything in the air he got to.

Your right about Migrane with his silence on the walk to Drew. He thought initially that pitch was a strike and they showed the replay 3 times and each time it showed it was a ball. Migrane as you said was quite dumbfounded, it is very natural for him too feel that way, LOL.........

The Fenway crowd chanting BEAT L.A. BEAT L.A.

The Rays get swept right out of town, AGAIN!!!

What is going on in that Red Sox dugout???? Why in the world are they fighting???? I guess they think they are the A's back in the early 70's,lol........

Blair played most of his career with Baltimore. He went to the Yankees his last couple of seasons for better money and to win a ring. A while back I played softball on a Navy team and we played an exhibition game for thier charity against the Legends of Baseball. Paul Blair was on that team and I got to have a long talk with him. It was pretty interesting. The guy I most remember from that game was Rico Carty. We played on a field with 300 foot fences. Behind the left field fence was a 3 story building. Carty hit a slow pitch softball about 450 feet. It was amazing. It's amazing how many players go into softball after retirement. I've played against a bunch of them. That where all us old and broken down baseball players wind up.

Gsm,

I have heard stories about Blair. It sounds like you had a blast with him. You can't beat that.

I think I hit a ball one time 400 feet, I hit it 400 times and it went 1 foot at a time, lol.

That Migrane is all over Youkilis, anything Youkilis does he gets on him about it. It gets old after a while. Like Jeff said they say the same old stuff.

Why would Lester get thrown out? Migrane says he should!!! This guy Migrane needs to go home and soon.

I am very surprised Lester hasn't gotten tossed after throwing one up to Floyd. Also very surprised Floyd didn't get hurt, lol....He is made of paper.

The pitch behind the batter wasn't an issue, not in my opinion.

You must have been quite the slugger in your day Brian.

Migrane is everything he tries to portray Youk to be an more. That sad SOB whines about every call, every pitch and everything Youk does. It's almost comical.

That pitch to Floyd wasn't that far off the plate. Tek didn't have to do anything more than reach up to catch it. Hitters that use that open stance at the plate have a tough time getting out of the way of inside pitches because they are moving toward the plate when they start their swing. It's touch to change direction and they are often diving out of the way of pitches that aren't that far inside. I think umpires understand that..

Gsm,

I thought that pitch was up there. More importantly the ump says otherwise just as you said.

That is all I can do is laugh at our friend/pal Migrane, LOL.....It is comical.

1 win tonight in Boston and 1 more later on tonight.

Gsm,

If Youkilis was on the Rays, Migrane would talk him up as if was the next great one. He would talk about how intense he is and how great his glove is. He plays for the Red Sox so automatically he doesn't care for him. Migrane is a FOOL!!!!

Brian, we're as bad about Migrane as he is about Youk. LOL! Yeah, it's just about tipoff time at the Garden or whatever they're calling it nowadays. Good night to go two for two.

Geez now Manny is out. Sox are crippling up.

Well, I gotta give Staats credit where credit is due. He did give a quick report on Ellsbury, which was good.

Gsm,

LOL, Your right about us towards him. I am very happy the Sox don't play the Rays for a while. I don't think I could take him for another night, lol.

Celtics played sloppy in the final 4 minutes or so of the first half. Bryant is laying low in the weeds, always scary is Bryant. Boston usually comes out strong at home in the second-half, I hope that trend continues.

Brian,

When we discussed throwing at a batter a while back I neglected to mention how the '50s pitcher always threw at a speedy runners legs. This would fit throwing at Crisp's legs! So there would be no logic in throwing at Youkilis' legs because of his lack of speed!

My fractured logic would also expect you to be a speedy runner. If you hit a ball one foot at a time for 400 times you likely would hit it more or less in a straight line away from home plate. Therefore, the shortest distance you would have to run to first base would be 340 feet by hitting the ball down the first base line. Any other direction would result in a longer run! Running that far three or four times a game would give you very well developed legs resulting in an ability to run fast!

A fence could not exist given the need for the pitcher to pitch from 45' in front of you, the need for you to have room for a swing for the last footor two, and the fact that bunting is not allowed in Softball!

Crisp retaliation last night was juvenile and costly -- I have to say again how wrong I think he was in his reaction, and how costly it turned out to be (for us) -- and how nearly it came to being really costly.

I think Crisp wears his glove on his left hand, and so, if he had not gotten thrown out of the game (due to his retaliation) he would have been in center field, and been able to catch that ball fore-handed, instead of back-handed, as Elsbury had to, and thus injury (his and Elsbury's) would have been avoided.

We were well on our way to winning that game anyway. Now we have Elsbury day to day at best, Crisp's coming suspension (which I am sure he will be get). The flair-up between Youk and Manny probably ignited by this. And too bad for Chris Carter. Crisp's stunt cost him his chance to play a few days in the big leagues. I wonder how happy Carter is about Crisp's testosterone.

I see no upside in this type of behavior on the field.

Kramer,

Great point for throwing at a runners legs.

I was making fun of myself, your reading too much into it. I was just like anyone else I guess, loved playing but no pro here, lol.......

Hey, BosoxBrian:

I'm glad to see that the Sox website has posted Beckett as the probable pitcher for the first Oriole game. With the depletion of their outfield corps (gotta believe that both Ellsbury and Manny will be out a while, and that Crisp will get suspended for 3-5 games), the Sox could ill afford to have their pitching corps depleted past losing Schill and Dice-K. Hopefully, Beckett will take his regular turn in the rotation, Dice-K will be back, and the Sox will give Buchholz another try in the rotation when they think he is ready to go.

All those who have been asking when its JD Drew's turn to step up, I guess there's no question, it is now. I also hope that Manny and Youk were just boys being boys, and this is not an indication of a larger clubhouse problem. I have faith that Tito will dispose of the problem beyond our vision, and that this will not cause Manny to decide he's injured and can't play for an extended period. Doing without either Manny or Big Papi is one thing, doing without both of them is entirely another.

Dbenjamin,

I agree the Youk and Ramirez incident was isolated. Francona as we all know does a great job in handling those LARGE EGO'S. He treats them like men.

I think Crisp could get up to 7 games, he'll appeal and probably get it to drop a game. I have seen replays of Iwamurra ( throwing a couple of punches ) Crawford ( throwing some as well ) Gomes we all know the story there.

I think the thing that was lost in all of this, the pitching of Jon Lester. He was outstanding last night. He kept his emotions in check. He is a very mature player, I think the Rays should look into getting some players like Lester. Lester is beyond his years and I am very glad he is a member of the Red Sox.

I fully support charging the mound any time a HPB is obviously intentional... just look at the potential consequences... A HBP could result in a major injury, career threatening, or even death in a few occasions throughout history. Even if a pitcher tries to hit him low... anything is possible. So what are the consequences to the pitcher in that situation? Maybe a fine, maybe a suspension, runner gets first base. Even trade? Not even close. If a pitcher knows he's going to have to fight... maybe he'd think twice if a broken nose, shattered eye socket, or something along those lines would be his payback? Why not take it one step further and have the batter keep his bat and take a few swings at the pitcher?

Rayman,

Have the batter bring the bat to the mound? Are you o.k.? WOW!!!!!! I think I have heard and read it all. Please say you are joking, please say you are joking.

It's partially a joke... If a pitcher decides to throw a 90+ mph fastball at a batters head (Farnsworth earlier this year), why not a hitter bring out a bat and take a swing at the pitcher?

Or let's put it this way... if the rule was... A batter is allowed to run out and hit the pitcher with his bat any type a pitcher intentionally throws at a batters head... do you think pitchers would still intentionally throw at a batters head? I'm talking about the obvious, intentional HBP like last night.

Similar to gun laws... If the law was that every private citizen was required to own a loaded gun in their house, do you think criminals would be less likely to break into a house?

Rayman,

I don't like it when pitchers throw at a players head. Personally I think if a pitcher throws at a players head, automatic 10 game suspension. Shields threw at his legs, no problem there in my opinion. Partially a joke, WOW!!!

I'm gonna stick to baseball here, not gonna talk about gun laws. I'm sure there is another blog for that somewhere in this computer world.

More importantly Boston is in 1st place and they have won 6 out of 7.

And I say again, what does this get you -- absolutely nothing, except further harm to yourself and your team through suspension at minimum, maybe further injury in the fight -- talk about "cut off your nose to spite your face," or "hurt/disadvantage yourself further in order to do harm to an adversary".

Not only is that dumb, it wouldn't even be tolerated in grammar school, yet it is somehow worthy of men (or should I say boys).

Don't see the gun analogy at all -- a more closer more graphic analogy would be if you were to shoot someone, does that give you the right to shoot them back? Our civil laws don't allow this except in obvious cases of self-defense, which rushing the mound is not (its retaliation). Even still, courts of law dispute every case of this, but usually everyone is the loser in the end for escalated violence or temper, once you get that far, its sad news all around.

Nobody can convince me that Coco has done any good here other than put further hardship on his team. And I like Coca, but that was mistake.

And to counter that, just what did Coco accomplish then (or any brawl)? Did anyone on the Rays (Shields, Gomes, Crawford) get a realization? O thank you Coco, for rushing the mound? Now we understand that you were angry with us, and why, 'cause we were wrong? We won't do it again, because your actions have (a) made us understand the errs or our way, or (b) we are afraid of you now -- so we won't do it again.

This is all non-sense.

The bright side of suspensions and short term injuries is that those players may be more rested in September.
Will the BSox hold on to first place? my head says YES!!!

I've also pondered what the result would be if a batter sent a bat "helocoptering" toward a pitcher. Those broken maple bats give us some idea but are unintentional.

Or to cut to the chase, what retaliation or brawl in any sport has accomplished anything, even once?

Kramer,

I remember of one incident between Boston and Tampa Bay. Ryan Rupe I believe was on the mound for T.B. and Trot Nixon was at the plate. Nixon let his bat slip out of his hand towards Rupe, it landed in the vincinity of Rupe.

Of course Clemens in game 2 of the W.S. back in 2000, took part of Piazza's bat and threw it towards Piazza. The Mets sat there and did nothing. Clemens intimidated the Mets that Sunday night at Yankee Stadium.

Brian,
To me Clemens started to throw the piece of bat toward the dugout then spotted Piazza comming up the line and the bat fell somewhere in between. I have little doubt that Clemens would have made it a lot closer if intended!

So, no suspension for Nixon?

DG,
Not a Hockey fan (anymore) like me?

Kramer,

I don't remember if Nixon got suspended. He might have gotten 3 games or so. There have been so many incidents between T.B. and Boston over the years. Same teams---different names.

I think Clemens knew what he was doing that night.

RobertG -- funny, I do like hockey, very much, but not the fights. However, if there is any sport where it would be especially hard to control one's temper, it would be hockey, flying around at what ever speeds those guys get up to, slamming into bodies, cheep shots with sticks -- I'd probably lose it too. Still most hockey fights seem gratuitous, cheapen hockey for me, in some cases ruin it -- I know Michael Wilbon (of PTI) feels exactly the same way (given a show where they were discussing this topic)-- he thinks it should be stricken from hockey as well -- so I know I am not a sissy (lol) or Wilbon is too !!!

If you have to fight, take up boxing.

DG,

The fights and agitators plus more baseball televised made me stop watching about 11 years ago!

RobertG -- re-reading your comment, are you saying that the fights in hockey have dampened your enthusiasm for the game?

It certainly has done that for me. I am originally from the south, moved to Boston, got into hockey, went to my first Bruins game all psyched. There were several fights during the game, and the crowd went into frenzy for everyone of them. I thought I might as well have been at Roman Colosseum.

Here was this great game going, and the place seem to be salivating for each fight. Never thought about it before, as I continued to watch hockey on TV for a while, but that was the last hockey game I went to as well. Guess it really turned me off (the crowd frenzy most of all). Funny, I was embarrassed -- as it was a first date for me, first hockey game, I had never seen that behavior in professional sports.

Brian,

We'll never know what Clemens true intentions were! Since we can't rely on what comes out of his mouth about what goes into his butt!

RobertG -- me too, but I never really realized it specifically (strangely enough) until your comment, probably just a couple of year or two before you stopped watching.

DG,
Not just dampened, totally eliminated!

DG,
Some impression! Was there ever a second date?

Yes, there was a few more dates, then she eventually gave me up for a scuba instructor, after I got her interested in diving, lol, but we remained friends -- those were the days -- worrying about love lives -- hmmm, now, I worry more about ballplayers not messing up.... ouch !!!! -- guess you have to have your priorities straight, lol!

Ellsbury, Manny and Papi out of the lineup tonight. That kind of loss would devastate most teams. But looking at the lineup, it doesn't look all that bad. You're lacking the big bang in the middle of the lineup with Drew, Lowell and Youk. However, they are three pretty capable hitters that can do some doubles damage at Fenway. Casey hitting behind Youk isn't such a bad thing and we know Moss can hit a little. I think the Sox will be fine and very competitive with this lineup.

I pitched for a lot of years and never intentionally threw at a batter's head. I have thrown at batters, but never at the head. That being said, I remember very well hitting two batters in the head. I wasn't throwing at them either time. They were pitches that just got away. A pitcher is not supposed to show emotion when he hits a batter. But when you've plunked one on the head and he's laying down and not moving, you can't help it. It's a scary thing and I couldn't help but to walk in and check on the guys. A baseball can be a lethal weapon. A pitcher who would intentionally throw at a batter's head can have no other intent but to cause serious injury. In my mind, it's a criminal act no different than if you take a hockey stick to someone's face or a bat to someone's head. There's no room for that in baseball. I'll guarantee you there was nobody on the field that felt worse than I did the days I hit those guys (except maybe those guys). If a pitch gets away like that, I don't think there's a thing wrong with a pitcher addressing the batter with an explanation, and even an apology. That's not accepted behavior in today's baseball, but it should be. It would solve a lot of problems.

I would also say that a pitcher who would throw at a batter's head, especially in the American League, is a coward. There is no retribution to him and little risk. It's his team mates that face the brunt of the revenge. Nuff said.

No question, Coco was primed and ready to go. All Shields had to do to avoid the whole thing was to not hit him. But when it happened, there were Rays all over Coco taking cheap shots. There was never any other intent by the Rays in that whole thing but to brawl and get a shot at Coco. The control was all theirs. Whatever happened the night before, and I didn't see anything really wrong with either play at second base, the brawl was instigated by Shields.

Here come the suspensions, Coco-7 games, Lester-5 games, Casey-3 games. So throw in the Elsbury injury -- and by math, Coco's rush to the mound (justified or not by baseball etiquette) is a huge minus. Again, if I were Francona, I would bench him after his suspension so my players know, that placing unnecessary hardship on your own team cause you can't control your temper will not be tolerated. I know it doesn't compute to baseball guys, but it should.

Rays with 5 suspensions, all diserved. Gomes only got 5 games I think -- he should have got more, even as much or more than Shields, he was the only one really swinging.

I hate to be pessimistic, but with all the bats and 1st stringers out of the line-up, even though we still look strong on paper as gsm noted, if Hernandez has anywhere near the game he put on us in Seattle, our 13? game home winning streak may be going down tonight -- to me, at least partially thanks to Coco's actions last night.

I will leave this subject now and move on.

If the Mariners win even one, it'll be an upset!

The Rays got more players suspended and they deserved it. M.L.B. moved quick and I was surprised Lester got 5 games. Lester didn't even get thrown out last night. I guess M.L.B. thought Lester was throwing at guys last night. What do the umpires of last night's game think about that? I guess M.L.B. thought they should have tossed Lester.

Boston should sweep Seattle. The Mariners have been PATHETIC this year. There pitching has been poor and there hitting just as bad. A lineup of outs is the M's lineup. Seattle was supposed to contend for the playoffs this year. Safe to say they will be sellers in late July. Only thing missing from the M's are the old pitch fork uniforms, lol. Ugliest uniforms of all time!!!! UGLY!!!

Dgneubert,

ZERO chance of Francona benching Crisp when he returns. Why would he? He misses a bunch of games and then you bench him.

I agree about Gomes, he should have gotten more for sure. Navarro was holding him down and Gomes thought he was Marvin Hagler.

I thought Hale would have gotten fined. His takedown was rough I thought. Then again I didn't think Lester would get suspended. Enough of this fight stuff and play some baseball.

Boston was all fired up last night, I hope they don't come out flat tonight against a team they should beat down. M's grab 2 runs early. Lugo get out of the way pal, you are in the way. It should have been the end of the inning. Too bad Lugo didn't get suspended, lol.....

Since everyone is in fantasy land- suppose there is a rule that if a pictcher is determined by the umpire to intentionally hit an opposing batter- that the manager receives an automatic 5 game suspension - for the first offense. A second offense a 10 day suspension etc. This would at least discourage a manager from encouraging the practice and encourage a manager to direct his pitchers to lay off an opposing batter.

Pangelotti: great idea -- especially if the managers are behind most of this -- which they seem to be, a concept I have trouble conceiving, given that managers are grown men (supposedly) but apparently still exhibiting juvenile thinking (maybe that is why they are in baseball, lol).

Sadly, even commentators defend this, claiming "you have to defend your own" as some sort of scared right or statement on manliness. Mike Wilbon (PTI), who I normally almost always agree with, said he will have no respect for the SOX if they don't retailiate further at the end of June, when they meet again. NESN analsyst (except for Remy) were defending it as well. All disappointing to me.

Again, look what is cost us, one temper lost, 3 suspensions, an emotional high fueled by anger, that resulted in increased strain on an already depleted staff, and a subsequent emotional low, and a 8-0 shellacking by a last place team.

Yea, Right, good move, boy, this really brought our team together!

I guess there is a feeling that if you don't respond, then the meaner (more poorly behaved) teams will keep doing it to the nicer (more well behaved) teams. Well that is where the rules and the umpires should work, and respond with immediate ejections like pangelotti suggested, so us fans can feel enjoy a professional ball game fought on skill and the best potential of both teams, instead of lessened by temper tantrums.

BoSoxBrian: you bench Coco after his suspension to send him a specific message that no matter what the league thinks of his actions, I don't want you putting further hardship on my team because your can't control your machismo. If you want to play for me, be a professional.

You can improvise all the punishment in the world that you want, you have to remember that it would remain for the owners to implement these punishments. These players play for the owners, and the owners pay most of the fines. I highly doubt the owners will be that harsh on themselves.

Now, as a local community prosecutor, what I believe is necessary is for prosecutors to take hard looks at this stuff to determine if its criminal misconduct. If pitchers (or batters for that matter) start thinking about going to jail, some (no, not all) will think twice. Granted, it would have to be a clear case, but throwing beyond a batter's head after circumstances like this past weeks between the Sox and the Rays I think should clearly be looked at by the criminal law enforcement folks. You move Thursday night's brawl a few hundred yards out of Fenway and onto Lansdowne Street, same people, even the same understandable circumstances, and people are going to get arrested.

I really believe that the criminal punishments handed out to NHL players has cut down on some of the ice violence. Maybe its also cut down on the popularity of hockey!

But this idea of giving a batter a free swing -- YIKES. There is enough violence in our society right now not to authorize a "no liability" -- retaliation rule.

As for CoCo's conduct on the basepaths, he as much as admitted that his second slide was in retaliation for what he thought the ss did during his first stolen base. But then he retaliates against the second baseman. Then Shields starts by throwing at the Sox second baseman. No one in the world will convince me that that was an accident. I didn't get a great look at the replay of CoCo's second slide, but it looked as though he went in with his spikes pretty high.

Isn't this one of the reasons the same umpiring crew works an entire series, so they can keep track of things like this? After Shields hit CoCo, I would hope that he would have been tossed, missed several games and fined significantly. As it was, both Pedroia and CoCo's pinch runner both scored -- how much more punishment did the Rays need to absorb to realize this retaliation thing was costing them a ballgame, and a further slide out of 1st place?

I was also surprised when Jon L. didn't get tossed after he'd started hitting batters. He hadn't even walked one -- he had good command of his pitches -- those had to be retaliation -- there's that word again.

Before we advocate more violence, does anyone remember how Tony C looked after he got hit (and I don't believe that Jack Hamilton went headhunting, I believe the pitch got away). When it happened, wasn't he, at 22 years old, the youngest player ever to have hit 100 home runs? If not, he was one of the youngest. Is that what we want to advocate, or even support, a system of violence which envitably, has those sorts of spin-off consequences?

I do believe that it was an intentional throw by Kyle Farnsworth. Maybe what you do, is you double or triple the suspension or fine, unless the player admits his conduct and identifies anyone who directed him to do it. Maybe that would cut down on the retaliation??

I've spent enough time thundering on about that. Here's hoping that Wake has another good game, and that the Sox regain their winning ways. They just seem to struggle with Seattle, no matter how poorly Seattle plays against everyone else.

Hey, BosoxBrian, if you're right, the Mariners become a player clearinghouse later this year, here's my request that the Sox try to pick up Kenji Johjima. He always kills the Sox, and looked pretty good his first two year (he's struglling right now, but that's what might get his price down). I know he's 32, but that 4 years younger than Tek. He might make a nice transition from Tek to the next generation? What do you think?

Dbenjamin,

I wouldn't want Johjima. He is making too much money to be a backup catcher. There are only a few players I would want from the M's but ZERO chance of Seattle ever trading them. Ichiro, Bedard and King Felix. How good is King Felix going to be? I think he is the pitcher in baseball under the age of 25. He will be a legit #1 starter for several years.

Boston might have been a little drained from the night before. I expect a sharper effort from the Sox today. It all starts with Wakefield. He had his best start of the year against Seattle a couple weeks back. Batista should get hit hard today.

Too bad all the analysts are not reading our blog today, instead of the ranting about Lugo and a few others, they could read and see how un-entertained and repelled we all are by the long standing tolerance for premeditated retaliation in baseball.

Changing the subject (at least for me, lol) -- I never knew that there were 50 rounds in the baseball draft until a few days ago.

This year, the SOX drafted 50 players. What percentage of these guys actually sign? how many farm teams do we have, PawSOX, SeaDogs, Lowell (something)? How many players move into and out of our farm on an annual basis? Can anyone hazard a guess?

Correction, we drafter 52 players over 50 rounds, sorry.

I was talking to a pretty fair baseball player turned golf pro last evening. He suggested that with the high school kids, most are committed to a college, so whether they will jump to professional baseball depends upon $$. If they don't sign, then they are subsequently available, although he said if they don't jump straight out of high school, they have to play 3 years in college before they can be signed to the pros. Why doesn't NCAA basketball have the same sort of rule?

Wow, I use to think college first, period -- but there are many ways to get a college degree now, and lets face it, a lot kids (as did I) waste much of their time and opportunity in college. If I could lock up more money than a college degree is going to guarantee, and then return to college when it would actually do me more good (or pursue it slowly part time while playing), I think I would have to take it. For a minor league salary (although I have no idea what that is), don't know if I would do that, but for major league money, you have to take it -- don't you??? Unless you know deep down you are not ready for the commitment and the pressure, or it is some team like the Yankees that you absolutely do not want to play for, lol!

Your scholastic education you can pick up when you intend to really use it. The rest of college is... we can all fill in the blanks.... probably things you can do whether a ball player or college student.

The later draft rounds tend to be high risk picks that are seldom signed. From observing the past three darafts, I would guesstimate about 50% do not sign and 20% that sign play Short Season then quit!

Brian,
I didn't get to see last night's game. Did the Ms bunt on Bartolo?

WOW, some week, huh??
I can understand the Casey and Crisp suspensions (Casey got a couple of good shots in there) but I dont understand the Lester suspension. Was he suspended for hitting the batter later in the game?? I dont think I saw him out there when the Beantown Brawl was on. Any body know the answer??
Anyway Hey to all, I have been so busy the past week and I've missed this!!

The Red Sox farm teams are Pawtucket (Triple-A), Portland (Double-A), Lancaster (advanced Single-A), Greenville (Single-A), Lowell (short-season), and the Gulf Coast League Red Sox (the lowest level of Single-A). Most draft picks who sign will be sent to the GCL Red Sox or Lowell. Typically, guys selected out of high school start in the GCL and the college players start at Lowell.

Jeff
http://www.soxandpinstripes.com

Kramer,

The M's didn't bunt on Colon. Errors and more errors hurt the Red Sox last night. Not too mention no Ellsbury and Ramirez. Then again King Felix was on the hill, he usually does very well against Boston.

I would agree with you about bunting on a large pitcher who lacks mobility. Then again this is the 21st century, it is about swinging away and hitting the ball as far as they can. Changing your approach to help the team, what a novel idea, lol.

Let's hope some of these draft picks help the Sox in the future. Theo and the baseball ops. have done a GREAT job in stocking the farm system. Some of these names will be in the bigs helping the Red Sox win down the road.

We talk alot about sportscasters other than Remy and Orsillo on here . Here's another gem:
According to Dick Stockton, there are obviously 2 NEW players in todays game:
1) Mike Cash, you know Bostons Knuckle ball catcher
and
2) Ichiro SuzuSKI you know the Polish-Japanese center fielder for the Mariniers..
Our guys might be homers now and then, but at least they get the names right (most of the time), Remy did call EVAN Longoria "EVA LONGORIA" the other night. Who knows maybe Evan has another job!!

What has gotten into J.D. Drew? Perhaps Lugo should get vertigo, lol.

Ramirez absolutely crushed that H.R. off of Batista. Johjima looks totally lost against the knuckleball. I remember when Mo Vaughn was trying to hit Charlie Hough ( Hough with the White Sox at the time ) he looked totally lost that night in Chicago. Vaughn said the knuckleball's coming in looked like giant pizza's. Johjima looked equally pathetic his first time up. I don't think there are many knuckleballs thrown in Japan. Heidiki Matsui has struggled against Wakefield as well. Ichiro's 2 hits have gone about 50 feet, 1 a bunt of course.

Talking about sportscasters, sad news with the passing of Jim McKay, the best of all them. He was the GREATEST!!!

Poor approach at the plate by Cash. Why swing at the first pitch? Let's go Cora, break this game open a little here.

Hey Guys (I was on vacation)

Sorry I didn't write and wish you all well this week. I was just hustling to get out the door with the family to Orange Beach, AL for a week of vacation (which was great by the way)
I'll just say, I'm glad the Sox took three from the Devil Rays. I'm glad they beat Seattle today. I'm also disgusted at the Sox physical presence on the field. That was abysmal.
As mentioned earlier about Tony C, how about Bill Lee having a dislocated shoulder after a Yankees/Red Sox brawl. in 1976. He never pitched the same because his shoulder never quite recovered.
I'm sorry but Crisp and everyone else responsible needs to grow up. Manny attacking Youk was disgusting. Why don't these guys get real punishment for fighting. Fighting can really ruin a person's career in a hurry and it's time that MLB and every other sport begin to take it seriously. They are adults on the field, not middle schoolers. That brawl made me feel ashamed of the Red Sox. They should know better -- especially since they were winning!

Drew had a hot night today.
Nice to see Manny have a good night today. My friends keep kidding me about the Manny-Youk incident. (My friends are Phillies fans, and I never said this before, I live in Philadelphia.)

Why did the Boston press fail to mention Kelly's Dad played for the Yankees!!!

Kramer, you're mistaken, the Pat Kelly you are talking about was an infielder. Casey Kelly's father was a catcher that played with the Blue Jays 3 games in 1980

Hey, BosoxBrian:

Nice call on the Sox lighting up Batista. Right on the nose with that one. Glad to see Ellsbury in the game, and of course, JD Drew really picking up the slack. The man may yet make some of us believe he's worth $15 Mil per. Let's see if Justin M. can throw yet another good game and climb on top of Erik Bedard. It sure would be nice to win this series before entertaining Baltimore and then going to Cincy and Philly. Maybe the Sox WILL be 15+ g